WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!

Posted By: WyleECoyote

WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 04:17 AM

1971 Charger Superbee w 383 - 69,xxx original mile engine.
NEW radiator.
New hoses.
New thermostat.
New water pump.
New coolant.
Original shroud.
Original fan.
No clutch fan - direct drive fan.
Two years ago (Sep 2009) - we made it 1,000 mile round trip to St. Louis for Monster Mopar Weekend. No cooling problems.

Come home and back in the hive the Bee goes. Drive it a time or two and then in Sep 2010 I drive it to work and on the way home, the temp gauge reaches "uncomfortable".... (YOU KNOW - that white mark on the temp gauge to the far right?)

Today I take it out for a drive (88 degrees outside) and this happens:

Going...

going...

going..

Gone...

Thermostat Housing:

Top of Radiator:

Bottom of Radiator:

WHY IS IT OVERHEATING WITH EVERYTHING "NEW"? (2 years old)

Help......

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 04:20 AM

Stuck or partly stuck stat

Posted By: PowerWagonDude

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 04:22 AM

Bad fan clutch

Posted By: WyleECoyote

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 04:29 AM

No clutch fan. Direct drive. Thank you for the comment.

Posted By: OzHemi

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 04:34 AM

Even though the water pump is new....is it any good?

Was the impeller pressed on the correct amount ?

And perhaps worth pulling the thermostat out and sticking it in boiling water (or close that is) to make sure it is opening, and opening fully...

Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 04:37 AM

Quote:

New hoses.

Does the lower hose have the spring in it to prevent it from collapsing from the pump suction?

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 04:40 AM

Lean...

Posted By: OzHemi

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 04:41 AM

Quote:

Lean...

Or timing ?

Posted By: RAMIT

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 04:51 AM

air pocket in the block???

Posted By: WyleECoyote

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 04:53 AM

I THINK (assume) good water pump.
Welded on impeller.

Spring in lower hose.

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 04:55 AM

Quote:

Lean...

Now of this were a Japanese car the proper response would be.... Rean..

Posted By: WyleECoyote

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 04:55 AM

Timing hasn't changed since the 1,000 mile trip to St. Louis. Runs like a scaled dog - no valve chatter - real powerhouse! Starts with the touch of the key hot or cold.

Posted By: flypaper

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 05:00 AM

if you don't have leaks
then something almost has to be restricting flow

start simple at the thermostat
i would check or replace that first
the rad could of gottin clogged by crud left in the engine
flushing it would be my next move
let it run and watch it over heat
is the rad cap any good?
clues will stick out if you are observant

Posted By: WyleECoyote

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 05:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Lean...

Now of this were a Japanese car the proper response would be.... Rean..

Ha ha! Very funny to me! My first wife (1 of 4) is Korean. I was stationed there in Korea for 3 years. I always told the lady's my name was "Earl".........

They would try to repeat it as ELLR - or ELRL - or ELLL - they would get SOOO tongue tied!!

ANYWAYS... (back from memory lane...) I still have a dang hot Bee!!! WHY?????

Posted By: WyleECoyote

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 05:07 AM

Quote:

if you don't have leaks
then something almost has to be restricting flow
start simple at the thermostat
i would check or replace that first
the rad could of gottin clogged by crud left in the engine
flushing it would be my next move
let it run and watch it over heat
is the rad cap any good?
clues will stick out if you are observant

I rented the pressure test kit thingy from Advance Auto. System pressure tested to 17lbs and held for 2 hours. Radiator cap passed at 17lbs.

I have not tried flushing to see if crud came from engine. GREAT idea and watch it overheat. WILL do tomorrow. THANK YOU!

Posted By: hooziewhatsit

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 06:00 AM

Remove the radiator cap and let it warm up. You should see a LOT of water moving through the radiator when the thermostat opens. If you don't see much water moving, it's likely your stat isn't opening.

DAMHIK

Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 06:50 AM

Theres a 33 degree difference of temp after passing through the radiator, so it appears that the radiator is doing its job.

Posted By: Pyper70

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 10:14 AM

What kinda stat are you using? What temperature? Just because its new doesnt mean it works. I bought the Napa Premium as well as the MOROSO / Mr. Gasket type. Both 160�. I bench tested them both and the NAPA opened at 157� and full port at 165�. The MOROSO/Mr. G style began to open at 172� and was full port by 185�...You can't trust any of them really.

I paid $12 for one 10 years ago and my engine was hitting 170� all day along in traffic and the freeway. 22" 4-core Radiator + Shroud, High Volume Water pump (cast iron), 7 blade fan + Hayden clutch. All timed and dialed in. 10:1.

I can't seem to find a decent stat anymore. She runs close to 185� all day now (given I am in a different region of the world but the weather is the same)

A trick I used to do on my Slant 6 Dart was open three 1/8" holes in a triangular formation on the surrounding area of the stat, chamfer the holes on both sides. My dart was riding 180� all day with a 180� Stant Stat

Posted By: WyleECoyote

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 12:51 PM

Quote:

Remove the radiator cap and let it warm up. You should see a LOT of water moving through the radiator when the thermostat opens. If you don't see much water moving, it's likely your stat isn't opening.

DAMHIK

I'll give this a try at lunch time! Thanks for the idea.

Posted By: WyleECoyote

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 12:56 PM

Quote:

A trick I used to do on my Slant 6 Dart was open three 1/8" holes in a triangular formation on the surrounding area of the stat, chamfer the holes on both sides. My dart was riding 180� all day with a 180� Stant Stat

I'll do what hoozie suggested and check the flow in the radiator. If I have no flow, out comes the thermostat, I'll bench test it AGAIN and WHATEVER goes back in (another new one or the current one that works) WILL have 3 holes in it! What size holes? 1/8th inch?

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 01:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Lean...

Or timing ?

These 2 guys are right, it's the tune up, I'd bet a weeks pay on it.

You don't need to modifiy the cooling system, you need to run the right tuneup, I'm sure.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 01:23 PM

there is no hot honey to b seen

. Over 350 hits and if you're not in advertizing you've missed your calling

. Just imagine what you could do in the real world

Posted By: WyleECoyote

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 01:39 PM

Quote:

You don't need to modifiy the cooling system, you need to run the right tuneup, I'm sure.

I will check the timing - but I don't see why it would be different than when I drove the 1,000 mile trip to St. Louis. Stranger things happen - maybe the timing chain is stretching and changed the timing?? Regardless - I'll check it. Thank you.

Posted By: johnedod

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 01:50 PM

Take your digital thermometer and get another vehicle up to operating temp. and take readings at the same places you did on your car. Preferably at the same outside temp as on the day you checked your car. That way you'll have something to compare to. Is it puking any coolant?

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 01:56 PM

Just as long as you checked the other stuff the guys above suggested, then I'd be sure it's either lean or needs more intial timing, probably both.

Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 02:17 PM

I had problems once with my '69 C500. Turned out to be the temperature sending unit. Along with the laser thermometer, I would try the old fashion boiling/cooking thermometer with the round dial that goes up to at least 400. take off the radiator cap and let her idle until the thermostat opens. Look at the thermometer and then your temp gauge. This could be one test. Also, if your connection on the bulkhead connector is bad/weak, it'll effect your readings. After all, the gauge is reading resistance from the sending unit and if you add more resistance, it could be reading wrong...

If you do get another sending unit, get a Mopar brand. I didn't have any luck with the junk offered over the counter at my local auto part stores.

Just a thought,,

Posted By: Pyper70

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 03:23 PM

Not to poke the beehive...you do have an overflow catch can right?

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 05:48 PM

Is the new radiator aluminum? If so i had a simialr experience with a new aluminum radiator 4 yrs ago, it cooled fine when I first put it in. It ran 165F going down thw road at 50+ MPH or higher and 160 F degreesas soon as I let off the throttle and slowed down to 35 MPH or slower. The next spring it ran 190+ all the time

I had filled it with distilled water and Water Wetter and then added antifreeze later for the winter storage

� I had it reversed flush this past winter and it is now running 165 F again

I did buy and install a sacrifisal anode that screws into where the drain plug goes, maybe that will help

Let us know what you find

Posted By: Golden-Arm

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 05:53 PM

Quote:

(another new one or the current one that works) WILL have 3 holes in it! What size holes? 1/8th inch?

i drill a single 1/8" hole in mine, just to make sure they dont hold an air bubble. remove the stat and crank it up and let it run for a while. watch the temp, and monitor water flow. if it still gets hot with the stat removed, you have a questionable radiator, or blockage in the block, providing you see decent water flow. if the flow is poor, i'd suspect the pump. be sure the hoses aren't collapsing. the bottom one is the one to look at closely. use redline water wetter too. it does help.

Posted By: Paul_Fancsali

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 09:11 PM

Keep at 180 stat. Drop your antifreeze level concentrate to 30 % and quit worrying the engine is not over heated at 228 Hot yes boiling No Also last time I had one do what yours is doing the head gasket was blown between cylinders but you said you did check with pressure tester Also get a 18 lb cap it will help a little

Posted By: WyleECoyote

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/24/11 10:10 PM

Thanks Paul. I didn't get to play with it today so hopefully tomorrow! I appreciate your input.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/25/11 12:28 AM

Post some racy pic(s) and pull that stat

Posted By: jetdoctor_75402

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 05/25/11 04:30 AM

Have a 72 Dart 5.2 52,230 miles and it started overheating and what I found was a previous owner had put stop leak in engine. It built up in the corner of the back driver side cooling water jacket in the block. Found this when I removed the heads to replace head gaskets (they were not bad, just covering bases). The stop leak was intended to stop a leak at rear water soft plug in rear of block. Don't know your history on your car, but might be a possibility?

regrds

doc

Posted By: WyleECoyote

UPDATE: Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 07/25/11 11:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Lean...

Or timing ?

These 2 guys are right, it's the tune up, I'd bet a weeks pay on it.

You don't need to modifiy the cooling system, you need to run the right tuneup, I'm sure.

Challenger 1 - Will you be sending that weeks pay via Paypal or check???...

Well, regardless that the radiator was new, and no matter that we flushed the cooling system - apparently the 1,000 mile trip to MMW in St.Louis knocked enough rust and debris loose in the engine/cooling system that the radiator was plugged up.

After trying EVERYTHING else, I took the radiator back to the shop and told them my problem and they said they would flow check it. Yep, sure enough - they said even though it was cooling, the flow was terrible. A $21 radiator flush and I'm back in business!

WHAT a lesson learned!
Thanks for ALL the help and ideas you guys gave me (and all of us here on Moparts), I think this will be a valuable thread!

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: UPDATE: Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 07/25/11 11:45 PM

Wow, I wish I had seen this sooner as I don't believe your problem is fixed long term!

Both my father and I had problems with '71 vintage motors overheating. Replaced hoses, thermostats, had the radiators cleaned and everything would be fine....for a while...

I turns out that on both motors (his a 383, mine a 318) they had lots of casting sand that was left in the block! Both motors were original and had never been out of the car when we bought them. After we pulled the motors and THOROUGHLY cleaned out the pan rails/water passages the problem went away.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: UPDATE: Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 07/26/11 12:53 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Lean...

Or timing ?

These 2 guys are right, it's the tune up, I'd bet a weeks pay on it.

You don't need to modifiy the cooling system, you need to run the right tuneup, I'm sure.

Challenger 1 - Will you be sending that weeks pay via Paypal or check???...

Well, regardless that the radiator was new, and no matter that we flushed the cooling system - apparently the 1,000 mile trip to MMW in St.Louis knocked enough rust and debris loose in the engine/cooling system that the radiator was plugged up. After trying EVERYTHING else, I took the radiator back to the shop and told them my problem and they said they would flow check it. Yep, sure enough - they said even though it was cooling, the flow was terrible. A $21 radiator flush and I'm back in business!
WHAT a lesson learned!
Thanks for ALL the help and ideas you guys gave me (and all of us here on Moparts), I think this will be a valuable thread!

I guess the check is in the mail.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 07/26/11 01:41 AM

Quote:

Is the new radiator aluminum? If so i had a simialr experience with a new aluminum radiator 4 yrs ago, it cooled fine when I first put it in. It ran 165F going down thw road at 50+ MPH or higher and 160 F degreesas soon as I let off the throttle and slowed down to 35 MPH or slower. The next spring it ran 190+ all the time I had filled it with distilled water and Water Wetter and then added antifreeze later for the winter storage � I had it reversed flush this past winter and it is now running 165 F again I did buy and install a sacrifisal anode that screws into where the drain plug goes, maybe that will help Let us know what you find

I wonder if the Water Wetter alone didn't give it enough corrosion protection. Especially for the surface area of a fresh new radiator. The aluminum needs some added silicates and nitrates for protection.

When you have a new radiator or new heater core, those protective ingredients can get quickly depleted even out of 50/50 coolant to cover that new area. Then you are not left with much protection to carry you over to the next coolant exchange interval.

I know Justice Brothers recommends it's Super Radiator Cooler (pn 22/P) AND an additional Radiator Protectant bottle (pn 1/P) for water only situations.

Posted By: RoadRunnerLuva

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 07/26/11 07:26 AM

This thread should end up in the Tech archives

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 07/26/11 07:39 AM

Pretty common problem... Debris in the cooling system doesn't get properly cleaned out by EPA compliant hot tank.. It just gets loosened so when the engine is assembled & running in the car
after a few heat cycles the debris starts breaking up & plugs the radiator... A good solution is to run a coolant filter for the first couple thousand miles...

http://autocoolantfilter.com/

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 07/26/11 07:49 AM

Quote:

Pretty common problem... Debris in the cooling system doesn't get properly cleaned out by EPA compliant hot tank.. It just gets loosened so when the engine is assembled & running in the car
after a few heat cycles the debris starts breaking up & plugs the radiator... A good solution is to run a coolant filter for the first couple thousand miles...

http://autocoolantfilter.com/

In a new motor, I agree.

I spend hours MYSELF just picking the loose scale out of my block and air blowing the living heck out of it! And it was real clean to start with. Then after I got it back from the machine shop I put a pressure washer and hose through everything.

My new motor stays cool and I have a tiny mechanical fan with no shroud yet. I did do a drain and fill soon after I got the motor running. But if it idles or in real slow traffic for quite some time it will get hot (not boil over though). I need to add a shroud AND do a good backflush.

I thought I did a decent job of getting the junk out of there

Attached picture 6747158-Stroker4_24_10BuildSm10.JPG

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 07/26/11 09:45 AM

Make sure the heat riser valve in the exhaust manifold is not stuck closed.
If the engine has never been apart, it may have a bunch of scale/rust build up. May also be a head gasket not sealing? Heck, it's only 40 years old

Posted By: gtx6970

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 07/26/11 12:43 PM

If you had debris in the radiator , you have debris / sediment on the bottom of the block.

pop the core plugs out of the sides of the block and flush it out to prvent another issues down the road.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: WOW!!! Is she HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - 07/26/11 04:18 PM

Quote:

If you had debris in the radiator , you have debris / sediment on the bottom of the block.

pop the core plugs out of the sides of the block and flush it out to prvent another issues down the road.

I agree (see previous post) but usually there is so much sediment in the bottom of some of the '71 blocks that the only fix is to pull them out!

We took mine to the car high pressure car wash BEFORE it went to the machinist to try and get all the crap out and I was AMAZED at how much sediment and sand came out!