Which is harder on an engine?

Posted By: desomod

Which is harder on an engine? - 05/05/11 09:21 PM

On a cold start up with Eddy carbs and the fuel evaporation problems they have, my question is; Is it better to use starting fluid to get an immediate and rapid engine start or to crank the starter to pull fuel into the carbs resulting in alot of low RPM cranking/slower start? The concern is oil pressure, cam/lifter wear and general engine wear.

Posted By: terzmo

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/05/11 09:24 PM

I NEVER use starting fluid except as a last resort. A well tunes engine will start without causing issues...except for a fresh build(no breakin) I'd rather have it crank and see if oil pressure builds.

Posted By: finadk

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/05/11 09:26 PM

Really? I have a 600 CFM 1406 on a small block that sits for months and months at a time, and untouched all winter. I pump the gas 6-7 times turn the key and it fires right up every time. Never had to crank it more than 20 seconds and never used starting fluid.

Scott

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/05/11 09:36 PM

i think like the other poster, a well tuned carb(s) a few pumps of the pedal is all I've ever needed. Even in this 440-6 w/ a solid roller 588 cam and alum heads, 3 pumps and fire. hold it at 1500 for a minute or 3 and drive.

Posted By: GO_Fish

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/05/11 10:16 PM

Once the oil pressure comes up, you should have little wear while cranking. Probably a bigger issue would be wearing out the starter.

I read once years ago that for every doubling of rpm's, you quadruple the wear. So at 8,000 rpms theres a whole lot more wear going on than at cranking rpms (again, once you have oil pressure).

Posted By: slantzilla

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/05/11 10:50 PM

Fix the carb. Leave the starting fluid for the diesel guys.

Posted By: moparts

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/05/11 11:10 PM

Quote:

Eddy carbs and the fuel evaporation problems

Not much you can do to fix it other than change carbs.

The cranking to start it shouldn't hurt anything.

One thing, elec fuel pump would fix the problem

Posted By: dOoC

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/06/11 12:59 AM

IF the car sits a lot ... it could be normal evap. Just fill up the carb from the vent tubes OR use an electric fuel pump to fill.

Posted By: desomod

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/06/11 05:30 PM

Thanks for the input. On my other car with a Holly carb, it's no problem to fill the bowl through the vent with a little funnel. On the Carter (Eddy) carbs, there is no place to do that without pulling the top of the carb off.
I know the fix is to install an electric pump to "prime" the carb once it's been sitting. It just seems like the fuel evaporates so quickly that if the car isnt driven for a week, the accelerator pump has nothing to pump.
I mostly wanted to get your input on was if it was harmful on the cam to crank the engine until the motor fires.

Posted By: RemCharger

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/06/11 07:05 PM

No, there shouldn't be any additional wear from cranking instead of running.
Unless all of the oil ran off the cam and it is bone dry.
I just started my car after sitting 7 months and drove away. No worries.

Posted By: volaredon

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/06/11 08:46 PM

When I had the Edelbrock on my Diplomat, it was "grind city" for the starter to get it going; another 318 with headers and Edelbrock manifold/carb,, my D 250 pickup starts easier than my fuel infested Cherokee does.

Posted By: dOoC

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/06/11 08:52 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the input. On my other car with a Holly carb, it's no problem to fill the bowl through the vent with a little funnel. On the Carter (Eddy) carbs, there is no place to do that without pulling the top of the carb off.

The TQ carb is probably the WORSE ...as far as evap. Just go to the DOLLAR STORE and get a pair of those mustard/ketchup squirt bottles.

And YES ...I would not want to crank and CRANK ..... NOT good for the starter OR cam. uNless you have a roller cam.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/06/11 08:53 PM

A guy stated once (on here) that starting fluid is extremely harmful and he explained why (dont remem what he said) & called it "liquid sand in a can".

Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/06/11 09:05 PM

Quote:

On my other car with a Holly carb, it's no problem to fill the bowl through the vent with a little funnel. On the Carter (Eddy) carbs, there is no place to do that without pulling the top of the carb off.

Actually, there is. The vents are are smallish, rectangular holes right next to the rod covers.You can get gas in the bowl that way, but will need the aforementioned squirt bottle to do it.

Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/06/11 09:05 PM

Quote:

A guy stated once (on here) that starting fluid is extremely harmful and he explained why (dont remem what he said) & called it "liquid sand in a can".

I was hoping someone would bring this up...........old schoolers I know call it "very caustic" and generally discourage the use of it if you don't have to.

Posted By: mickm

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/06/11 09:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A guy stated once (on here) that starting fluid is extremely harmful and he explained why (dont remem what he said) & called it "liquid sand in a can".

I was hoping someone would bring this up...........old schoolers I know call it "very caustic" and generally discourage the use of it if you don't have to.

that is what i have heard as well.

i just have a little glass bottle filled with gas, and dump a bit down the carbs before firing it if it has sat for a while. that at least gets an initial few seconds of running and primes the carbs. then i don't have to crank nearly as much to get it going.

Posted By: dOoC

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/06/11 09:13 PM

Liquid sand ? ....

That is not old-school ... that is some-kind of old-wives-tale !!!

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/06/11 09:20 PM

Quote:

Liquid sand ?

Been trying to remem what that posted stated for the reason (true or not true) & all I can remem is something about what the ether does. Doc you're not old school? Best trick I saw was to just loosen the wing nut a bit & dribble the gas down the stud WO having to take the air cleaner off but I'd want to wipe that area on the top flat clean 1st.

Posted By: dOoC

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/06/11 10:55 PM

The only thing that I can think-of that would make using starting-fluid "hard on an engine" ... is that the motor wants to go sky-high in RPMs as you are spraying it.

And FORGET about using it on a diesel ...

Posted By: desomod

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/06/11 11:23 PM

It seems you would have to use quite a bit of starting fluid to do harm to the cylinder walls.
The all a pain in the a** with the shaker setup to even see the carbs!

Posted By: dOoC

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/06/11 11:27 PM

Quote:

It seems you would have to use quite a bit of starting fluid to do harm to the cylinder walls.
The all a pain in the a** with the shaker setup to even see the carbs!

x 2 .... NO harm on the cyl walls uNless you empty the whole can in there.

With your combo ... just get an electric fuel pump and fill-the carbs with a flick of a switch ..

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/07/11 01:00 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

A guy stated once (on here) that starting fluid is extremely harmful and he explained why (dont remem what he said) & called it "liquid sand in a can".

I was hoping someone would bring this up...........old schoolers I know call it "very caustic" and generally discourage the use of it if you don't have to.

that is what i have heard as well.

i just have a little glass bottle filled with gas, and dump a bit down the carbs before firing it if it has sat for a while. that at least gets an initial few seconds of running and primes the carbs. then i don't have to crank nearly as much to get it going.

GAS!? DOWN THE CARBURETOR!?? MADNESS!!!

Posted By: POS Dakota

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/07/11 10:58 AM

Quote:

A guy stated once (on here) that starting fluid is extremely harmful and he explained why (dont remem what he said) & called it "liquid sand in a can".

It's a very strong degreaser so yeah, it will wash the oil off and if used excesively can be a problem.

But seriously, one or two quick bursts arent going to cause a problem.
It's when people give a big long spray of it that you can get a problem. It also evaporates very quick so used in a small quantity it's suspended in the air in large part I would think.

A couple quick shots of gas is a great "alternative" solution!

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/07/11 01:16 PM

Quote:

It's a very strong degreaser so yeah, it will wash the oil off and if used excesively can be a problem.

But seriously, one or two quick bursts arent going to cause a problem.

Yeah that's what I thought but w the poster being adament about it & the way he worded it he made it sound like it was the Devils' tool & you can for sure believe every opinion you read on the 'net

Posted By: B5 Bee

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/07/11 02:27 PM

Starting fluid isn't for starting motors, along with a match it's used for seating tire beads to rims.

Posted By: convertriple

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/07/11 02:48 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the input. On my other car with a Holly carb, it's no problem to fill the bowl through the vent with a little funnel. On the Carter (Eddy) carbs, there is no place to do that without pulling the top of the carb off.

I use a contact lens solution bottle to fill the vent tube on the primary side. Works good, though I can't say how it is on an edelbrock.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/07/11 02:59 PM

Quote:

Starting fluid isn't for starting motors, along with a match it's used for seating tire beads to rims.

Wrong. Its for anesthetising (sp) Spiders. Knock them out, play with them, then let them come to.

They never look at you the same afterwards though....

Posted By: dOoC

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/07/11 04:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Starting fluid isn't for starting motors, along with a match it's used for seating tire beads to rims.

Wrong. Its for anesthetising (sp) Spiders. Knock them out, play with them, then let them come to.

They never look at you the same afterwards though....

NOT a whole lot TO DO in WA ...when it is raining ...HUH ? ..

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/07/11 04:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Starting fluid isn't for starting motors, along with a match it's used for seating tire beads to rims.

Wrong. Its for anesthetising (sp) Spiders. Knock them out, play with them, then let them come to.

They never look at you the same afterwards though....

NOT a whole lot TO DO in WA ...when it is raining ...HUH ? ..

when you're dealing with eight legs the possibilities are endless.

Posted By: GomangoCuda

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/07/11 04:35 PM

One time we had a wasp pestering us as we worked on a car. I went to the work bench to see if we had any thing to kill it with. Starting fluid knocked him right out of the sky. Didn't even kick his legs after he hit the concrete. If he had I would have thrown a match at him.

Posted By: 72N96RR

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/07/11 06:35 PM

I have an Eddie on my 72 440 motor and I started the car every three weeks or so all winter long without an issue ever..Pump the pedal once or twice and it fired...Im talking zero degree days too..

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/07/11 07:14 PM

Quote:

I have an Eddie on my 72 440 motor and I started the car every three weeks or so all winter long without an issue ever..Pump the pedal once or twice and it fired...Im talking zero degree days too..

Not allot of evaporation taking place on a zero degree day... This was much less of an issue when we had real gasoline... The needs of a carburated vehicle are not given an thought when blending the formulations used today...

Posted By: dOoC

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/07/11 07:32 PM

Quote:

One time we had a wasp pestering us as we worked on a car. I went to the work bench to see if we had any thing to kill it with. Starting fluid knocked him right out of the sky. Didn't even kick his legs after he hit the concrete. If he had I would have thrown a match at him.

.... I wonder if this would work against a 64PEST ?

Posted By: 72N96RR

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/08/11 02:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I have an Eddie on my 72 440 motor and I started the car every three weeks or so all winter long without an issue ever..Pump the pedal once or twice and it fired...Im talking zero degree days too..

Not allot of evaporation taking place on a zero degree day... This was much less of an issue when we had real gasoline... The needs of a carburated vehicle are not given an thought when blending the formulations used today...

You nailed it with the REAL GAS comment..

Posted By: 67_Satellite

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/08/11 02:46 AM

( Asks date)"Does this handcerchief smell like chloroform to you?"

Posted By: FurryStump

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/08/11 02:37 PM

I installed an accusump to pre lube. turn the valve before starting. Close the valve after a ten seconds. Then start. After it is running open the valve to refill the bottle then close it for next time.

Posted By: oleman

Re: Which is harder on an engine? - 05/09/11 03:23 AM

The solution to the perculating/leaking flat fuel bowled Eddy carbs is an electric fuel pump.
I added a cheap carter electric pump in series with a carter mechanical pump years ago.
Turn on the engine hit the prime switch until you hear the fuel pump noise change and hit the starter.
The 440 then starts like it was fuel injected.
Eliminated the hard hot starts and the cold hard starts.
An electric fuel pump covers up many carb design faults.