Moparts
727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383
Posted By: 69Stinger
727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/12/11 05:34 PM
On Sunday, I replaced the Holley Street Avenger carb on my 71 383 RR w/727 slapstick with a new edelbrock 750. I went to hookup the factory stock one piece (71 and up style) kick down linkage and for some reason, after full adjustment is made at the top end of the rod, the throttle stud will not touch the back part of the oval hole in the top slide bracket when at idle. Because of this, the stud does not push the linkage back far enough for the kickdown to work during acceleration - it travels about an inch before it starts to push the slide bracket backwards. I didn't have this problem with the Holley, only with the Edelbrock. Is there a difference between big block and small block 71 and up one piece style factory linkage as far as length goes? Or is this a carb design difference in carb throttle bracket position? Any info is much appreciated!
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/12/11 10:04 PM
Do you have the correct Mopar throttle lever extension (Edelbrock #1481) on that Edelbrock?
Posted By: T2R9
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/12/11 10:11 PM
Are you running the Chrysler linkage adapter Edelbrock sells for these carbs? I have never had an issue using stock linkage with the adapter. There are different kick down rods between small and big block and even B to RB, the carb slide bracket I believe is the same length on the big block 4 bbl engines. Small block 2bbl cars do have a shorter one. Not sure on 4bbl setups.
EDIT: Beat me on the adapter John
Posted By: 69Stinger
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/12/11 11:47 PM
Yes, I have the adapter installed - I should have mentioned that. I looked at it again and something just ain't right. Here's a picture, maybe it will help. There's about 3/4" of space at the rear of the slide bracket behind the throttle stud - there should be no space there.
Thanks everyone.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/12/11 11:51 PM
Is there an adjustable swivel at the transmission end of the rod?
Posted By: 69Stinger
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/13/11 12:08 AM
Negative - the long rod has only one adjustment, at the top as you can see in the photo. The end that connects to the trans lever is solid and just clips on.
Posted By: roe
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/13/11 02:16 AM
When I was getting help on here with setting up my kickdown linkage, lots of guys showed me how the just took 2 of those slotted bars and bolted them together to esentially make one long bar, so the the slot was properly sitting against the throttle pin at idle. Problem solved.
roe
Posted By: Rockland71GTX
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/13/11 02:25 AM
I have the factory manifold and carb on my 440 and there is a spacer of about 1/2'. That linkage looks to be at a steeper down angle, and maybe raising the carb would help that some. The other thought is that the rod may have been bent to make it work with the old carb and may need to be bent back to work with this one.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/13/11 11:18 AM
Something doesn't look right, I don't think that should be angled down like that.
After you get this figured out your next questions will be about the carb , that one was a bad choice, many people have problems with that particular carb.
What is the original carb for that engine , thermobog or a holley ?
Posted By: roe
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/13/11 04:04 PM
If it can fit, a spacer under that carb should help. I would help performance, and also give you a better angle for your kickdown linkage. I have a 1/2" spacer on mine.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/13/11 04:17 PM
Quote:
If it can fit, a spacer under that carb should help. I would help performance, and also give you a better angle for your kickdown linkage. I have a 1/2" spacer on mine.
I was thinking the same thing.
OP what intake is that and does the car have an air grabber hood ?
Posted By: T2R9
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/13/11 07:39 PM
I agree with the angle that it connects to the carb at is way to much. A factory thick gasket would even help.
The throttle cable bracket looks like it could be a 440 piece but it is hard to tell from the angle. A 383/400 one angles towards the carb more than a 440 one. The pic below shows 440 top and 383/400 bottom.
Posted By: T2R9
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/13/11 07:40 PM
Also check the rod down to the transmission. Here is a 440 top and 383/400 bottom.
Posted By: 69Stinger
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/14/11 03:25 AM
T2R9:
I think we are now getting somewhere on this. So there are different brackets between B and RB motors! OK, here's some more pics of my 383's linkage - I am not sure which set I have - can you tell from these pics?
Thanks
Posted By: 69Stinger
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/14/11 03:25 AM
.
Posted By: 69Stinger
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/14/11 03:26 AM
..
Posted By: 69Stinger
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/14/11 03:27 AM
...
Posted By: bee71mopar
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/14/11 06:53 PM
Maybe a little late but it looks like u have the 440 bracket
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/14/11 07:29 PM
Quote:
Something doesn't look right, I don't think that should be angled down like that.
Possibly because the "C" shaped link is standing near verticle, in some installations it leans forward at an angle which would bring the top link closer to horizontal. That would also close up the gap in the slot.
Posted By: 69Stinger
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/14/11 07:36 PM
It's not late - I'm still scratching my head on this! Based on the responses I've received above, we agree that the downward angle of the slide bar linkage is not right. Bee71Mopar inferred that 383 and 440 brackets are different, do you mean the height at which the throttle cable mounts is the difference? If so, then I would think that because the stroke/deck height on an RB motor is higher than a B motor, than the 383 bracket would be higher to compensate for the shorter stroke/deck height. If that's the case, then I probably do have the 383 bracket which is pushing the linkage up too high. I should then get a shorter 440 bracket??????? I want to say again that the kick down linkage,including adjustment and angle was perfect with the Holley carb and I only now have issues because of switching to the Edelbrock. The difference is with the carb - the throttle cable bracket on the carb must be set at a lower height than the Holley. Does anyone know this for sure?
Thanks again everyone!
Posted By: T2R9
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/14/11 08:24 PM
I don't believe the height between RB and B brackets are much different. The difference would be where the cable and kick down attach due to the intake being wider because of the raised deck. The rod down to the trans is also taller for the 440 due to the raised deck. Those do look like 440 pieces you have but the rod is hard to tell as it disappears behind the engine.
I would start with getting the thick gasket used on AVS carbs, that will raise the carb close to 1/2".
Does the throttle cable and linkage lever appear to connect to the carb straight looking down on them?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/14/11 09:09 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Something doesn't look right, I don't think that should be angled down like that.
Possibly because the "C" shaped link is standing near verticle, in some installations it leans forward at an angle which would bring the top link closer to horizontal. That would also close up the gap in the slot.
Looking at it again after John mentioned this I can see your problem and I believe it is caused because you have run out of adjustment on the rod going down to the trans which is not allowing the carb attachment to go fully forward.
Did you piece this setup together, you may have the wrong lever down at the trans wich is why it is at the end of travel , or you put it on upside down ?
Posted By: 69Stinger
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/14/11 09:53 PM
"Does the throttle cable and linkage lever appear to connect to the carb straight looking down on them?"
Nope - If you're looking straight on the engine from in front of the car, it's cocked at a wierd angle over to the right to connect to the stud on the carb bracket. My guess now is that I have a 440 bracket on the intake and possibly a 440 linkage rod because the accelerator cable is too far to the right of the carb/stud linkage. I'll take some more pics when I get home from work.
Posted By: 69Stinger
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/15/11 02:01 AM
OK - here's some more pics - the lever is definitely at an odd angle when looking at it straight on.
Posted By: 69Stinger
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/15/11 02:04 AM
If I have the throttle bracket and center rod that goes to the trans from a 440, does anyone have the right ones for a 383 they can sell to me?
Thanks
Posted By: 69Stinger
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/15/11 01:43 PM
Anyone? We were on a roll an may get this finally figured out.
Thanks
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/15/11 04:21 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Something doesn't look right, I don't think that should be angled down like that.
Possibly because the "C" shaped link is standing near verticle, in some installations it leans forward at an angle which would bring the top link closer to horizontal. That would also close up the gap in the slot.
Looking at it again after John mentioned this I can see your problem and I believe it is caused because you have run out of adjustment on the rod going down to the trans which is not allowing the carb attachment to go fully forward.
Did you piece this setup together, you may have the wrong lever down at the trans wich is why it is at the end of travel , or you put it on upside down ?
Did you miss this ? unbolt the down rod and see if everything levels out and it pulls forward, if it does you either have the wrong throttle cable bracket or the lower rod is too short/bent wrong or the lever on the trans is the wrong oreintation.
I asked , is this parts from one source or did you piece it together ?
Posted By: Ronnman
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/15/11 04:57 PM
I will check my 71 RR when I get home this evening. My kickdown rod almost touches the driver's side head when fully forward. I think you might have the wrong kickdown rod to the trans or the trans kickdown lever is the wrong lenght. I beleive there are 3 different lever lengths. Also, the flat bar on going to the carb is different than the one on my car. I can double check these items when I get home.
Ron
Posted By: T2R9
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/15/11 10:14 PM
Quote:
OK - here's some more pics - the lever is definitely at an odd angle when looking at it straight on.
That bracket is a 440 one and you should replace it with the right one.
Here is one available at a reasonable cost. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-383...=item5ae001dbbe The seller is Jimmy Borros and he knows his 71 up b-body's well, and has helped me out allot over the last couple years.
Posted By: 69Stinger
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/16/11 12:21 AM
I put the Holley back onto the manifold to test fit the kickdown linkage I have and what was on the car when I bought it. It fits fine. All adjustments are fine and the angle is level on the slide bar. The source of the problem is with the edelbrock carb itself, it pushes the throttle stud over to the driver side of the car ½” more than with the Holley and creates the awkward sidewards angle of the slide bar. The height of the throttle stud when mounted on the Edelbrock is also a little lower, hence the weird downward angle on the slide bar. This makes sense since the original carb on a 71 RR was a Holley and is what the original linkage was designed for. Time to rethink the carb choice and if anyone can use an absolutely brand new Edelbrock 750 electric choke model 1411 carb, never even run, let me know. I am certain this will fit 68-70 B-body big blocks with no kickdown linkage issues as the throttle stud is in the exact factory location where it needs to be. This makes sense since the Edelbrock is an AVS design and that's the original carb on my Bee.
I wonder if anyone out there is running an Edelbrock carb on a 71-72 B-body big block with factory kickdown linkage without any issues - if so, I'd like to hear from you.
Thanks again to everyone who took the time to reply.
Posted By: T2R9
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/16/11 01:43 AM
I am curious on the Holley carb you have, is it a factory 4160 with the Chrysler linkage, or one off the shelf with the standard Holley linkage?
Posted By: bee1971
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/16/11 02:01 AM
Quote:
I put the Holley back onto the manifold to test fit the kickdown linkage I have and what was on the car when I bought it. It fits fine. All adjustments are fine and the angle is level on the slide bar. The source of the problem is with the edelbrock carb itself, it pushes the throttle stud over to the driver side of the car ½” more than with the Holley and creates the awkward sidewards angle of the slide bar. The height of the throttle stud when mounted on the Edelbrock is also a little lower, hence the weird downward angle on the slide bar. This makes sense since the original carb on a 71 RR was a Holley and is what the original linkage was designed for. Time to rethink the carb choice and if anyone can use an absolutely brand new Edelbrock 750 electric choke model 1411 carb, never even run, let me know. I am certain this will fit 68-70 B-body big blocks with no kickdown linkage issues as the throttle stud is in the exact factory location where it needs to be. This makes sense since the Edelbrock is an AVS design and that's the original carb on my Bee.
I wonder if anyone out there is running an Edelbrock carb on a 71-72 B-body big block with factory kickdown linkage without any issues - if so, I'd like to hear from you.
Thanks again to everyone who took the time to reply.
Couldnt think of a better reason to get rid of a 1411/1407 Junk Edelbrock Anyways
And yes , with the correct kickdown linkage the Edelbrocks work fine - I ran the 1407 and newer Edelbrock 800 without any issues at all when it came to the factory correct kickdown linkage and edelbrock adapter
I was also under the impression the 71 383 Magnums with Auto Trans left the factory with the Carter 6125S Avs - The Holleys came on the 4-Speed Cars ???
Correct me if i am wrong
Posted By: 69Stinger
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/16/11 02:36 AM
Air grabber cars like mine came off the line with Holleys.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/16/11 04:04 PM
Quote:
Air grabber cars like mine came off the line with Holleys.
What Holley do you have , the original or an aftermarket with the Chrysler adapter ?
Why would you remove a holley and put on that junk performer 750 , Everything I read on the internet says Holleys are the best carburetors ever built ?
Posted By: Ronnman
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/16/11 04:16 PM
For reference, the linkage bar is 4" from hole to back of slot. See pic below.
Ron
Posted By: Ronnman
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 04/16/11 04:17 PM
The kickdown rod when fully forward is near the driver's side head. See Pic below.
Ron
Posted By: bee1971
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 09/18/16 09:53 PM
Sorry for digging up an old thread
Was responding to kickdown adjustment on another thread when I dug this up
Does anyone make the correct 1971 one piece kickdown linkage pictured in this thread
I see only brand new reproduction three piece kickdowns used on the older big block cars
And then of course the excellent pictures provided here with the difference between the 383 and 440 bracket that attaches to the manifold for the throttle cable and adjustment bolt for rod
Looking for individual pieces as some of my swivel holes are elongated or wore out where the adjustment is on the bracket itself. A lot of free play
1971 383 Magnum one piece rod kickdown linkage / bracket
Posted By: dart4forte
Re: 727 Trans Kick Down Linkage Question-71 RoadRunner 383 - 09/20/16 01:46 AM
I have a Carter 9536 sitting at home. It's the performance replacement for the 340/383 AVS.