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4bbl vs six pack

Posted By: stateroadhog

4bbl vs six pack - 02/20/11 11:52 PM

I know this question has been asked a dozen times just couldn't bring any of old ones up. 70RR non matching air grabber, 4spd, 3.55 gears. 493 stroker. Which would you run 4bbl on CH4B manifold or six pack?
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/20/11 11:54 PM

6 bbl
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/20/11 11:55 PM

The CH4B is a decent intake, but if you have any decent amount of head flow, the 6-pack will outflow the CH4B. Now if it was a performer RPM vs a 6-pack, well then it more boils down to how much you want to pay for the cool factor of the 6-pack because the performance is the same between the two.

In a 70 RR air grabber 4sp with a stroker, I'd go with the 6-pack just so I could throw on the 6-pack decals for the cool factor.
Posted By: buildanother

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/21/11 01:39 AM

Big cubes work well with the 6 barrels.
Posted By: EDDIEB

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/21/11 02:24 AM

I ran a 6 pac on my 470 for about 6 years and I tuned on it and I got it to run real good it went 11.07 in the 1/4 full trim street car,then last year I switched to a 4bbl,a street dom intake with a holley 1000 and with a bunch of tuning I got it down to 10.89,maybe with a better intake it might run better. Thats what I got.
EDDIE B
Posted By: lokalik

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/21/11 03:26 AM

6pk
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/21/11 04:10 PM

You tell me... FWIW a RPM and a good holley will run just as strong, but it won't look 1/2 as good.

Attached picture 6487749-6485766-092.jpg
Posted By: lewtot184

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/21/11 04:33 PM

in my opinion, the 6-pak is more versatile than a large 4bbl; which you will need to feed a big engine. the small center carb drives nice, good throttle response. i also like the vacuum carbs for street use. tuning can be a little bit of an issue, but i blame most of that on bad advice. the only real issues i've dealt with on 6-paks was richening the idle circuts on all three carbs and richening the main metering on the center carb. also check for manifold fitment. edelbrock hasn't figured out how to machine them correctly. maybe in another 40 years they'll get it figured out.
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/21/11 06:30 PM

The 6 pack is hard to beat up to 450 - 500hp on a street engine;

Part #1

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_0712_mopar_intake_manifold_comparo/index.html

Part #2

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_0801_mopar_intake_manifolds/index.html

6 pack advantages;

- far outperforms other factory B or RB intake/carb combos (with the possible exception of the MW crossram, but the six pack would still be better for the street)

- looks way cool!

6 pack disadvantages;

- cost

- some of the better 4bbl intakes will outperform 6 pack at higher (over 450hp) levels.

yes, I might be a little biased, though the articles speak for themselves




Dave
Posted By: THESHAKERPROJECT

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/21/11 07:09 PM

I love dat sixpak on my 496 stroker and when the end carbs kick in........SSSWWWEEEEEETTTT

Attached picture 6488084-013.JPG
Posted By: not_a_charger

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/21/11 07:10 PM

What about on an otherwise-stock or nearly stock motor, say like the 400 in my 73 wagon? Other than the cool factor, any gains to be made by swapping the 4bbl for a 6bbl setup?
Posted By: ThermoQuad

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/21/11 07:28 PM

Six paks rule!

Any properly tuned six pak car will outrun it's 4bbl equivalent. Unless you have owned/driven a properly tuned six pak car you have no clue what you are missing.

Properly tuned means you used the search function here on our beloved moparts to find the latest revision to "the guide to tuning six paks" You then printed it out and read it more than several times and understood it - heeding the important advice in there before you took a wrench and screw driver to the carbs.

Not one real world test other than the links to the hot rod magazine tests has ever given the 6 pak it's fair shake.

BTW You can [properly]port a six pak manifold to flow better...Just contact Ryan at Shadydell for assistance!

It's not a about total horsepower at the big end it's about the journey to get there, just like the two real world motorcycle riding sayings...it's not the destination it's the journey and if I have to explain you won't understand.
Posted By: gtx69

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/21/11 07:57 PM

2 barrel until you need more.

Attached picture 6488168-HPIM0154.JPG
Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/21/11 09:41 PM

Quote:

2 barrel until you need more.



Now that's the style of intake I like to see under 6 barrels! I always felt the stock 40 year old dual plane design limited 6BBL's potential.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/21/11 10:50 PM

Six packs look cool but a single four-bbl carb on a good intake will cost less and make more power. All depends on what you're trying to do with the car.

Another option is the Edelbrock dual quad intake. I just did some dyno work with the Eddy dual quad and twin Eddy carbs and that was a really sweet setup. Article is in the tech archives if you're interested. That setup also looks pretty nice with the Edelbrock air cleaner.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/1007phr_big_block_mopar_engines/index.html
Posted By: 6PACMAC

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/22/11 02:59 AM



Money to blow, go the 6 pac route. With your hood, big cube motor, a Holley SD and a 850 double pumper should work really nice. And run harder. I'll take a double pumper over a sixpac, with a four speed, any day, just plain more responsive. Unless your power shifting.






Posted By: lokalik

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/22/11 05:06 AM

i'll add one more for the 6pk. it's very cool,love the sound when they all come in and the mpg while crusing on the center kicks a 4brls azz. when i had a 4barl 12 to 15 was the best mpg crusing, 20 to 22 mpg with the 6pk crusing. more is better.
Posted By: MoparDonny

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/22/11 05:15 AM

I just finished Re-reading an old Mopar magazine with the big maniflod shootout on a 440 article a couple days ago. If I remember right, the 6 pack out of the box (manifold and carbs) made 583 hp on their test motor, the 950 hp carb/Holley strip Dominator manifold combo made 585 with a few less torque numbers, the M1 made the same and a Victor made 593.

My dad runs a sixpack on his 496 and I have a hard time believing that a 1050 and Victor would be worth the money at this stage. A little faster, maybe. Simpler to work with, matter of opinion. I think 1200 bucks will go elsewhere in the car first though.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/22/11 03:13 PM

Quote:



Money to blow, go the 6 pac route. With your hood, big cube motor, a Holley SD and a 850 double pumper should work really nice. And run harder. I'll take a double pumper over a sixpac, with a four speed, any day, just plain more responsive. Unless your power shifting.










while I agree the single 4 is plenty good, a six-pack is just as responsive when tuned. This one flat out destroys the tires, and when you are cruising and decide to lay the hammer down it flat pulls.
Posted By: lewtot184

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/22/11 04:07 PM

Quote:

What about on an otherwise-stock or nearly stock motor, say like the 400 in my 73 wagon? Other than the cool factor, any gains to be made by swapping the 4bbl for a 6bbl setup?

on my 69 r/t with a stock 4bbl carb and intake vs a stock 6-pak the car went from 14.00's to 13.30's. this an automatic, 3.23 rear, stock exhaust car.
Posted By: not_a_charger

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/22/11 04:31 PM

Because my wagon is a low-compression 73, I wasn't sure if a 6bbl setup would be worth anything performance-wise. It would look cool, though.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/22/11 04:40 PM

Quote:

Because my wagon is a low-compression 73, I wasn't sure if a 6bbl setup would be worth anything performance-wise. It would look cool, though.



probably not. I'd spend that cash on some new gutts for the motor.
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/22/11 05:22 PM

Yes, the observations that the 6 pack is pricier is true. OTOH, the whole "you'll make more power with a 4bbl" thing; maybe, maybe not...it all depends on the motor, which aftermarket manifold and what you mean by "more power".

Read the first article I linked, I really like it because the tests were done at around 450hp which is very realistic for alot of enthusiasts. This is the only comprehensive dyno test of the various mopar manifolds that I'm aware of. My only gripe is that they didn't test a stock cast iron 4bbl intake and carb.

For those who can't be bothered to read it;

Offy dual port - 412hp/436ft lbs
offy dual quad - 425/431
Edelbrock performer - 439/455
Weiand Team G - 442/437
Weiand Action Plus - 442/452
Eddy DP4B - 445/456
Mopar 6 Pack - 450/459
Eddy Performer RPM - 451/457
Eddy TM6 - 452/449
Weiand Tunnel Ram - 453/455
Holley Street Dominator - 455/449
Mopar M1 and Eddy Victor - 456/449
Edelbrock Torker - 457/456

...As you can see the 6 pack (on this setup, anyway) is within 7hp of the best aftermarket setup tested but has the highest peak torque of all of them. 3 of them give up 10 ft lbs to get 2-6 hp more which is no win. The tunnel ram; well, it's a tunnel ram and few people want to have thier carbs sticking through thier hood so that leaves the torker and the RPM as the only real equals.......not bad considering the 6 Pack is a stock setup.




Dave
Posted By: WICKD6PK

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/22/11 11:19 PM

6 pk allllllll the way

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Posted By: not_a_charger

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 01:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Because my wagon is a low-compression 73, I wasn't sure if a 6bbl setup would be worth anything performance-wise. It would look cool, though.



probably not. I'd spend that cash on some new gutts for the motor.



Kinda what I was thinking. The motor runs fine now. I actually hope to do a pump gas stroker for it in the next few years. Had never thought about a 6bbl for it until I read this thread.
Posted By: dOoC

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 01:26 AM

MAKE MINE a single 4 ....with a big Plastic-Fantastic ...

BUT for those who prefer a 6P ....I have JUST the intake ferr you ....

ONE that is welded UP for max wedge heads ...
Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 02:24 AM

Simple solution:

Money, not being an option - run the "six pack"
It guarantees MORE smiles per mile.

OR

Run the single 4bbl and high flow manifold. The
power factor is phenominal and budget conscious.

Either way, it's a win-win situation!!

Posted By: imfixinmopars426

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 02:30 AM

open the hood,for yourself,or for the buddys,and no one cares about the eddy rpm,and a holley.....440+6 rocks!
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 02:36 AM

Quote:

Yes, the observations that the 6 pack is pricier is true. OTOH, the whole "you'll make more power with a 4bbl" thing; maybe, maybe not...it all depends on the motor, which aftermarket manifold and what you mean by "more power".

Read the first article I linked, I really like it because the tests were done at around 450hp which is very realistic for alot of enthusiasts. This is the only comprehensive dyno test of the various mopar manifolds that I'm aware of. My only gripe is that they didn't test a stock cast iron 4bbl intake and carb.

For those who can't be bothered to read it;

Offy dual port - 412hp/436ft lbs
offy dual quad - 425/431
Edelbrock performer - 439/455
Weiand Team G - 442/437
Weiand Action Plus - 442/452
Eddy DP4B - 445/456
Mopar 6 Pack - 450/459
Eddy Performer RPM - 451/457
Eddy TM6 - 452/449
Weiand Tunnel Ram - 453/455
Holley Street Dominator - 455/449
Mopar M1 and Eddy Victor - 456/449
Edelbrock Torker - 457/456

...As you can see the 6 pack (on this setup, anyway) is within 7hp of the best aftermarket setup tested but has the highest peak torque of all of them. 3 of them give up 10 ft lbs to get 2-6 hp more which is no win. The tunnel ram; well, it's a tunnel ram and few people want to have thier carbs sticking through thier hood so that leaves the torker and the RPM as the only real equals.......not bad considering the 6 Pack is a stock setup.




Dave



At this power level, IMO the DP4B is the better choice than the RPM. The rpm gives up a small amount of torq down low because it's ports are needlessly large for a a guy running stock/unported or only mildly touched up stock heads. The DP4B looks like a stock intake and only gives up 5hp at peak rpm to the RPM intake but makes more down low. You're always looking for the bottleneck, and so long as you run stock heads, any 1/2 decent aftermarket intake is NOT where the flow bottleneck is. At least with the DP (ch4b if you're doing a 440) you don't have the hood clearance issues, etc.
Posted By: MoparDonny

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 05:56 AM

I'll have the Fettucini!!
Posted By: Scatransit

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 02:16 PM

Quote:

i'll add one more for the 6pk. it's very cool,love the sound when they all come in and the mpg while crusing on the center kicks a 4brls azz. when i had a 4barl 12 to 15 was the best mpg crusing, 20 to 22 mpg with the 6pk crusing. more is better.



This is the kinda info I'm looking for on this subject...Looking cool, going fast, AND getting improved MPG when cruising... Any more MPG numbers out there to share?
Posted By: ThermoQuad

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 02:45 PM

16 mpg with 3.55s. 0.80 4th gear, 26" tire, 400 rear wheel hp. 416 small block

I think the point many are missing about the six pack - a properly tuned one that is - besides the gas mileage - is the roll on/acceleration [power] a six pack produces that the seatofthepantsometer will confirm - a four barrel can't even come close to...It's like having a passing gear. Just ask those fools in their new corvettes who get suckered from a roll by that old muscle car. .

Reminder we are discussing street cars not drag race cars.
Posted By: 69RR383

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 04:17 PM

Quote:


I think the point many are missing about the six pack - a properly tuned one that is - besides the gas mileage - is the roll on/acceleration [power] a six pack produces that the seatofthepantsometer will confirm - a four barrel can't even come close to...It's like having a passing gear. Just ask those fools in their new corvettes who get suckered from a roll by that old muscle car. .

Reminder we are discussing street cars not drag race cars.




Properly tuned, a six pack will definitely put a smile on your face both from performance and looks. Add a 4-speed and you have twice the fun
Posted By: Airgrabber

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 05:45 PM

We ran my car on the dyno a few years ago with the 4bbl. and then the 6bbl. Way better numbers with the 6bbl. The difference when you turn it on is awesome as others have said. You have to feel the results in order to appreciate what everyone is saying. 6bbls rock!
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 06:10 PM

Quote:

Any more MPG numbers out there to share?






70 Charger 440/6 450 HP, DANA 60 4:10, 28" tire, Keisler 5spd TKO .64OD avg 22 MPG,....on the hand my Challenger T/A, 340/6 4" stroker 443 RWHP, factory 883 4spd, 3;91, 28" tire gets about 10 MPG
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 06:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Any more MPG numbers out there to share?






70 Charger 440/6 450 HP, DANA 60 4:10, 28" tire, Keisler 5spd TKO .64OD avg 22 MPG,....on the hand my Challenger T/A, 340/6 4" stroker 443 RWHP, factory 883 4spd, 3;91, 28" tire gets about 10 MPG



that's because you have to spin the SB to get the HP numbers.
Posted By: dOoC

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 06:27 PM

Quote:




It's like having a passing gear.






There is one CERTAIN CARB(with those big secondairies) .... that IS a passing-gear ...
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 06:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Any more MPG numbers out there to share?






70 Charger 440/6 450 HP, DANA 60 4:10, 28" tire, Keisler 5spd TKO .64OD avg 22 MPG,....on the hand my Challenger T/A, 340/6 4" stroker 443 RWHP, factory 883 4spd, 3;91, 28" tire gets about 10 MPG



that's because you have to spin the SB to get the HP numbers.







Dosen't help with the 3:91's with a 1:1 ratio 4spd,.........the 440/6 with the Keisler 5spd .64OD turns those 4:10's into 2:65's....big difference
Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 07:00 PM

Quote:

Any more MPG numbers out there to share?



1970 340 'Cuda 4 barrel automatic trans with cruise control on = 14 MPG highway miles for me.

Same car swapped to a six barrel with cruise still on = 16 MPG highway miles for me.

4 barrel is 2 barrels + 2 secondaries.

6 barrel is 2 barrels + 4 secondaries = more seat of pants feel.

6 barrel is more expensive and you'll have to learn to tune it to get it set right the first time. (I haven't had to make any adjustments to mine since I put it on about 5 years ago.) 6 barrel has the WOW factor.

Tav
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 07:07 PM

Looks good against hi-impact colors too.

Attached picture 6492179-4401.jpg
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 07:30 PM

my stock six pack setup ran the same as a 1000hp holley on a victor with 493, rpm heads, 590 mp cam

the weiand cross ram with a six pack was good for .2 and 2mph in the 1/8th if i remember correctly
Posted By: 540challenger

Re: 4bbl vs six pack - 02/23/11 08:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Any more MPG numbers out there to share?






70 Charger 440/6 450 HP, DANA 60 4:10, 28" tire, Keisler 5spd TKO .64OD avg 22 MPG,....on the hand my Challenger T/A, 340/6 4" stroker 443 RWHP, factory 883 4spd, 3;91, 28" tire gets about 10 MPG



that's because you have to spin the SB to get the HP numbers.



More likey the overdrive is making the difference It is a stroker small block making the same rwhp as the 440flywheel hp"just notice that part " it has nothing to do with "reving to make power"
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