Moparts
Please, please help with vibration problem
Posted By: larrymopar360
Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/17/11 05:36 PM
I am so bummed right now.Had new MP crate motor 360/300hp installed, along with TCI 727 and Torque Converter.There is an awful vibration without even driving.Bring it up to about 2K rpm and whole car shakes.The motor of course is externally balanced.The flexplate is bM #10242, which is supposed to be nuetrally balanced.Mechanic who did install said there was a big weight on the new converter.I was very clear with TCI sales person that it was for Magnum 360.I don't know what to do.Mechanic can't figure out why.Does it with car parked, so I guess that eliminates driveshaft,U joints, etc. What do I do now? I don't know where to turn.
Thanks. Larry
Posted By: buildanother
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/17/11 05:39 PM
If the flexplate has a large notch missing on outer edge(Not being perfect circle), then there is supposed to be NO WEIGHT on converter.
Posted By: kissmyaspen
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/17/11 05:52 PM
i think you need to change the flexplate back to a stock style one if the convertor has weight on it.
Posted By: doctor_mopar
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/17/11 06:25 PM
That flexplate is for an externally balanced 360( Magnum 360) You need to switch flexplates , or you should be able to carefully remove the weight from the converter. You should be able to do that without removing the converter from the car.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/17/11 06:25 PM
The B&M flexplate you have listed is for a 360/727 Externally balanced, your converter has a weight also,...IIRC the B&M flex plate is of there "conversion" line, meaning if your converter was a standard say 318/340 internal assy, the conversion adapter B&M flex plate was to compensate for the balance requirement that a internally balanced converter wouldn't have,...I recall doing a BB cast crank swap using a B&M conversion flex plate years ago....IMHO you have to either replace the flex plate with a factory flex plate, or loose the weight on the converter,...but consult B&M first as to your use of their plate and your converter choice
IMHO, I'd cut the weight off
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/17/11 08:50 PM
Apparently I did not get the BM flexplate like TCI told me they would send me.Mechanic believes I got TCI #145600 flexplate.
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/se...Term=tci+145600Mechanic says there is no "half moon" cut out on flexplate, and receipt shows 145600 number and not BM number.Mechanic says there is a big square weight on converter.After a 15 minute phone call to TCI with all the techs in the room trying to figure it out, they tell me the square weight converter and their flexplate should work together with the 5.9 magnum, and to send back the converter so they can check it for balance.Great,pay mechanic to drop trans again, ship this thing back, wait who knows how long for them to test and decide.I don't know what to do now??? Car has been at shop for three weeks now, and he wants it out of there, and I am about out of money. Suggestions please.....
Posted By: ireland383
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/17/11 09:12 PM
What damper do you have on the motor?
Posted By: jbc426
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/17/11 09:15 PM
Which one of these does your flexplate look like?
Posted By: kissmyaspen
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/17/11 09:21 PM
Quote:
Apparently I did not get the BM flexplate like TCI told me they would send me.Mechanic believes I got TCI #145600 flexplate. http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/se...Term=tci+145600
Mechanic says there is no "half moon" cut out on flexplate, and receipt shows 145600 number and not BM number.Mechanic says there is a big square weight on converter.After a 15 minute phone call to TCI with all the techs in the room trying to figure it out, they tell me the square weight converter and their flexplate should work together with the 5.9 magnum, and to send back the converter so they can check it for balance.Great,pay mechanic to drop trans again, ship this thing back, wait who knows how long for them to test and decide.I don't know what to do now??? Car has been at shop for three weeks now, and he wants it out of there, and I am about out of money. Suggestions please.....
3 weeks thats it we have one in our shop going on 3 years lol, long story, and 2 paint jobs later its going back together..
Posted By: doctor_mopar
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/18/11 02:34 AM
Take some good photos of converter and weight with a scale in the photo for measurement. If its their fault, I would hit them up for expenses ! At least you could prove if TCI changes it, or location of it. Of course, the problem could be improper installation of converter, a bad converter, or you could have the wrong harmonic balancer. The balancer is specially counterbalanced for a Magnum 360.
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/18/11 06:21 PM
I have spent much time on the phone with Mopar Techs.Seems the bottom line is I have to drop trans and remove converter and flexplate and sort of start over.Maybe take converter to a shop that can check it for balance.But first thing that seems unavoidable is removing both.Uggg.A couple of Mopar guys that my mechanic called advised to get the BM racing flexplate with the "half-moon" cut out, and then knock the weight off my converter, clean up the welds, and put it back together.I am leaning toward doing that, and have to decide something today.
Posted By: doctor_mopar
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/18/11 06:40 PM
Switching to the B&M plate and taking the weight off the converter may be your best bet. I just do not have much confidence in TCI. Also, it would be a good idea to make sure your mechanic did a good installation. The converter should easily slide up to and back away from the flexplate, when the torque converter bolts are removed. Sometimes the end of the crankshaft, or snout on the converter may have a burr on it. This can cause the converter to jam or [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] in the pilot area of the crankshaft.
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/18/11 07:35 PM
You should figure it out BEFORE you pull the trans IMO.
Could be anything, has anyone confirmed the balancer is correct? You need the FULL ROUND FLEX PLATE. turn the engine over and watch to confirm. You could take off the flex bolts and try pushing it up and down laterally to see if the pilot hub is too SMALL for the hole. I had a wrongly balanced 440 chew down a convertor pilot and now it vibrates in another drivetrain. I was considering getting a bushing made to correct it.
Posted By: BradD
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/18/11 08:06 PM
The B&M flexplate has the part number stamped in it. I don't remember off hand which side but may be visible with the dust cover off.
I would think if the flexplate is full circle(no scallop cut) then the weighted converter would be correct.
Brad
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/18/11 08:30 PM
The flexplate is four leaf clover shape.I don't have a pic other than the one I linked in one of the earlier postings.Mechanic spun motor and remembers what it looked like, and described it as exactly like the one I linked above, and as a "four leaf clover" shape.Advice from Mopar Tech (Rich), who is super knowledgable, is to get BM flexplate 10242, which has half moon cut out, and then remove weight from converter, clean up welds, and re-assemble.He feels confident this will clear up vibration.Motor is MP Crate Motor, pre-assembled and included damper.Rich is confident it has the correct damper for that motor.
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/18/11 08:44 PM
What he is saying then is the wrong weight is on the convertor.
Then TCI is correct and they screwed up.
Posted By: scratchnfotraction
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/18/11 08:46 PM
sounds correct to me
i would take his advice
some times it just happens that way
Posted By: mcmopars
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/19/11 02:59 AM
Quote:
I have spent much time on the phone with Mopar Techs.Seems the bottom line is I have to drop trans and remove converter and flexplate and sort of start over.Maybe take converter to a shop that can check it for balance.But first thing that seems unavoidable is removing both.Uggg.A couple of Mopar guys that my mechanic called advised to get the BM racing flexplate with the "half-moon" cut out, and then knock the weight off my converter, clean up the welds, and put it back together.I am leaning toward doing that, and have to decide something today.
this is correct for a magnum crate motor
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/19/11 06:26 PM
If indeed I have received the wrong combo from TCI, this will be the second time this same thing happened with them.I could not have been more specific and repeated myself more when ordering.I even used "5.9 Magnum" instead of "360", though I always prefer "360" to "5.9".Just gotta keep my fingers crossed.I am sooooooo stressed and frustrated over this, I really need a break.I will let you know. In the mean time, if anyone has any other input, please speak up.It probably will not be until Tues or Weds that the mechanic makes the switch, so there is still time.Thanks.
Larry
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/19/11 08:50 PM
Quote:
If the flexplate has a large notch missing on outer edge(Not being perfect circle), then there is supposed to be NO WEIGHT on converter.
x2 
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/20/11 06:27 PM
Quote:
Quote:
If the flexplate has a large notch missing on outer edge(Not being perfect circle), then there is supposed to be NO WEIGHT on converter.
x2
The thing is, it is neither. It is a four leaf clover shape. Not a perfect circle, and not a half moon cut out.
Posted By: pauly v.100
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/21/11 06:41 PM
wrong flex plate. The flexplate i used on my 360/380 crate motor was like the bottom one shown in the pic that jbc426 posted; round with a big scallop taken out, I think it was a Mr. Gasket piece though, and no weights on the converter.
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/21/11 07:14 PM
Quote:
wrong flex plate. The flexplate i used on my 360/380 crate motor was like the bottom one shown in the pic that jbc426 posted; round with a big scallop taken out, I think it was a Mr. Gasket piece though, and no weights on the converter.
Ok, that is my plan. Remove weight from converter and use scalloped flexplate. Thanks!
Posted By: jbc426
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 02/21/11 07:19 PM
Quote:
wrong flex plate. The flexplate i used on my 360/380 crate motor was like the bottom one shown in the pic that jbc426 posted; round with a big scallop taken out, I think it was a Mr. Gasket piece though, and no weights on the converter.
Sometimes in this hobby, you have to take two steps backwards to be able to take another step forward. It goes with the territory and makes final victory that much sweeter!I know we all go through our struggles in the quest to enjoy old Mopars.
The pics are straight out of the Summit on-line catalog. Let us know how it works out.
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/10/11 09:25 PM
What next???? Mechanic replaced flexplate with BM "scalloped" flexplate and removed the weight from the converter, but no change! Even parked, in Park or Nuetral, has soon as rpm's are brought up to about 2K, it vibrates badly.The hardest thing to figure is it did the exact same thing with the old 318/904 combination.Everything other than accessories are new.I disconnected all the belts and it still shakes at 2K.I really don't know what to do next.Out of money and patience.Right now I have an $8000 boat anchor that I can't drive without getting very annoyed and frustrated.
Posted By: scratchnfotraction
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/10/11 09:36 PM
check to make sure the front damper has not sliped on the rubber and is off balance
make sure its for a 360 also
either you have a mechanical failure/problem or its mixed on the balanced parts is my guess
Posted By: Hotlumpy
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/10/11 10:14 PM
I had a problem like that and one of the gentleman on this web site told me to check my bellhousing bolts. They were loose, tightened them and problem solved. seems like too easy of a fix, but it's easy to try!
Posted By: Hotlumpy
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/10/11 10:20 PM
Also, check your timing, and check voltage to the coil. I had a bad ballast resistor once that cut power to the coil down to 3.5 volts and my car shook violently. Timing could do it too, set it around 12 initial and see how she runs.
Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/10/11 10:43 PM
For further peace of mind and process of
elimination, check your mounts on both the tranny and engine besides the bellhousing bolts.
Posted By: NewbombTurkk
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/11/11 03:46 AM
he says it did the same thing with the old 318/904.....so it is NOT a new 360 problem right?
Posted By: MonGoo$e
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/11/11 06:25 AM
If you had the same issue with the old motor/trans combo, then take a look at things that have remained in the driveline..same trans mount, balancer, pulleys, I know some of those things don't swap over to what you have now but of those things that do, have a look. Make sure Distributor shaft isn't bent, giving you erratic fire out f the cap.
Posted By: 7e5dartsport
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/11/11 06:53 AM
i would double-check the damper. it should look different than 318/340 dampers wich are neutrally ballanced. otherwise , did you use the same tranny as with the 318? it could be the trans internally or the torque(318) has the hub partially broken (i have seen it before in 904s).could it be your 318 did have the hub broken and then you installed the new torque with the broken piece still laying inside the trans ??? it would do exactly as described plus some noise coming from the trans probably... check the 318 torque hub just to make sure it wasnt broken
Posted By: mcmopars
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/11/11 12:04 PM
i dont have money to have other people pull and repull my trannys.but that is beside the point,you either have the wrong damper or something is wrong in the engine.if you had all the acc.off and it still vibrates with correct vert and plate,thats all it can be
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/11/11 07:25 PM
Everything is new, including trans, electronic ignition, etc.Damper is one that came with the Mopar Performance motor.I guess that would be the easiest thing to replace right now, but I really don't think they built this with the wrong component.It is not any accessories because I already removed all the belts and it still vibrates. I will try a different ballast resistor, as suggested, what the heck, it is easiest enough. Everything else is new, including coil. It is so baffling, because it did this with the old motor, trans, converter, etc.
Posted By: scratchnfotraction
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/11/11 10:34 PM
check the timing then
i have seen them so far advanced it souded like it had a choppy cam in it
way over advanced will shake and ping under med load
if its a mag engine and your mixing the la stuff with it it could be off on the balance
maybe its a premag bottom end and you have added magnum balance stuff
but then again i dodnt see how the other engine did this also
very interesting in deed
Posted By: 7e5dartsport
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/12/11 12:03 AM
what if the choke wasnt opening . engine would run very rough as it gets hot ??? also, there may be more than one weigth on the converter , you guys removed only one ??? good luck
Posted By: 7e5dartsport
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/12/11 12:43 AM
also i would check the firing order because cylinders number 5 and 7 are too easy to mix-up. on another note, one cylinder may not be firing. to check it: with the engine running remove the wire from the spark plug and slowly take the wire away from the plug. you should hear it ignite and as you take the wire away the engine will sligthly slow down, if everything is fine with that cylinder. if the engine doesnt slow down, there is something wrong with that cylinder. put the wire back on the plug and repeat for all cylinders. there are special pliers to do this so you dont get shocked from the ignition.
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/12/11 04:36 AM
Quote:
also i would check the firing order because cylinders number 5 and 7 are too easy to mix-up. on another note, one cylinder may not be firing. to check it: with the engine running remove the wire from the spark plug and slowly take the wire away from the plug. you should hear it ignite and as you take the wire away the engine will sligthly slow down, if everything is fine with that cylinder. if the engine doesnt slow down, there is something wrong with that cylinder. put the wire back on the plug and repeat for all cylinders. there are special pliers to do this so you dont get shocked from the ignition.
They are easy to mix up, I've done it,but they are correct now.This vibration is not constant, like when there is a bad plug wire. It is harmonic in nature, most noticable at about 45 mph, but also while parked in N or P, once the rpm are brought up to about 2000.Today I removed the poly trans mount and installed a OEM one.Helped alot, but still noticable harmonic vibration around 45mph.I have heard from a couple others who have installed these and have no problems.I had the poly one on my old motor and trans, and same deal, so I removed it and put on OEM one.Is the rubber mount just masking a problem? Again, what baffles me most is that I had the same issue with old motor, trans, torque converter set up.Exactly the same. 
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/12/11 04:42 AM
Quote:
check the timing then
i have seen them so far advanced it souded like it had a choppy cam in it
way over advanced will shake and ping under med load
if its a mag engine and your mixing the la stuff with it it could be off on the balance
maybe its a premag bottom end and you have added magnum balance stuff
but then again i dodnt see how the other engine did this also
very interesting in deed
It idles nice and smooth, and timing is set pretty middle of the road right now.It doesn't misfire, hesitate, or ping.It just vibrates when on the gas at around 35mph and a little worse around 45mph, but smoothes when you speed up or slow down.No LA parts where mixed with this motor.It is a Mopar Performance 360, with all new parts and complete.I just added viscous fan, carb, headers, and fuel pump. I did remove all the belts for just a minute to see if it was one of the accessories, but it still vibrated.Removing the poly trans mount helped alot, but still some harmonic vibration.Thx.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/12/11 04:45 AM
Quote:
Again, what baffles me most is that I had the same issue with old motor, trans, torque converter set up.Exactly the same.
yeah me too & we're gonna laugh when we find it. & no excessive voltage drops/probs/ in the ign1 (run) circuit/components. What is related between the 2 engines?? EDIT to b clear they both vibrated in neutral parked in your driveway right?
Posted By: 7e5dartsport
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/12/11 06:22 AM
anything from the engine that could touch the body? i mean exhaust system/headers touching the torsion bars , engine, trans or body. maybe exhaust hangers or mounting points that are attached solid instead of rubber. bad engine mounts -rubber- that are worn-out would make the car vibrate too.i would check that carefully.
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/18/11 06:54 PM
Yes, mine does it in park or nuetral.Mine has all new mounts.They were poly motor and trans mount.First I switched back to rubber on motor mounts, but no change.Switched back to rubber trans mount and that hides alot of vibration.I can't find anything rubbing or touching.Trans has clearance, as does exhaust.Mopar Tech is baffled too, and does not think it is internal with the motor.He has 6 years with MP and has never seen one of these crate motors have a balance issue.He said although it is harmonic in nature, it could be a couple of cylinders being too lean, and that I should check the plugs for that, as well as anything spark related.Everything is new, and installed with motor other than the plug wires and accessories.I removed accessories belts and ran it for a minute, but it didn't help.I guess I could try another set of wires.Just seems strange that it's harmonic.If it did it all the time I could see it being spark related.
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/18/11 06:57 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Again, what baffles me most is that I had the same issue with old motor, trans, torque converter set up.Exactly the same.
yeah me too & we're gonna laugh when we find it. & no excessive voltage drops/probs/ in the ign1 (run) circuit/components. What is related between the 2 engines?? EDIT to b clear they both vibrated in neutral parked in your driveway right?
Yep, parked and in N or P. I don't know if I will laugh when we figure it out or scream! Yours is harmonic or vibrates all the time?
Posted By: rapom
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/19/11 04:18 PM
I had that problem in a chevy once and it was custom made 3500 stall converter. I would get my bad vibration around 50mph. Sometimes I had it and sometimes I didn't. I could fix it, at speed, by slipping the tranny into neutral, rev up the engine a couple of times, then slip it back into drive and usually it would clear up. I even took it back to the tranny shop to have it rebuilt. They cut it open and couldn't find anything wrong with it. I put it back in and the vibration was less but still there. Fixed the problem permantly by replacing converter.
Not sure if this is your problem though but wanted to let you know of my experence.
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/20/11 11:23 PM
Quote:
I had that problem in a chevy once and it was custom made 3500 stall converter. I would get my bad vibration around 50mph. Sometimes I had it and sometimes I didn't. I could fix it, at speed, by slipping the tranny into neutral, rev up the engine a couple of times, then slip it back into drive and usually it would clear up. I even took it back to the tranny shop to have it rebuilt. They cut it open and couldn't find anything wrong with it. I put it back in and the vibration was less but still there. Fixed the problem permantly by replacing converter.
Not sure if this is your problem though but wanted to let you know of my experence.
Thanks for info. I have a gut feeling mine is converter, and I am tempted to spend the money on another one. It is not too bad though, so I may wait a while when funds are available. Maybe will try a B&M instead of the TCI I have now. Mine does feel like it is either not there at all sometimes, or less at times. Thanks.
Posted By: scratchnfotraction
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/23/11 01:52 PM
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/24/11 04:51 AM
It sure is frustrating. I am bound to figure it out. I can at least drive it since I replaced the poly trans mount with an OEM one. The vibration is only slightly noticable. I WILL figure it! I will let you know when I do. Thanks!
Posted By: 71STROKERFISH
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/25/11 07:31 AM
I had some real bad vibs coming from my drive line a while back. I determined with alot of info from my brother Mopartners that the cause was when I dropped the trans out, then reinstalled it there was some sorta binding going on in the motor/trans mounts. I loosed all the motor mounts and trans mount bolts, started it and shifted from P to 1 several times, performed many power braking applications, some were extremely agressive. I then torqued all the bolts down....vibs went away.
I've gone through all the wickets everyone has mention: dampner, convertor, bent pulley etc etc.....
You might give it a try. I never had vibs before this until I removed the trans to replace the ring gear on the convertor.
Also, someone on Moparts referred me to a factory diagnosis diagram the Mother Mopar created back in the day. It was money! You might look in the arhcves....this has been since 2008...I'll look myself..
good luck!
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/27/11 12:09 AM
Quote:
I had some real bad vibs coming from my drive line a while back. I determined with alot of info from my brother Mopartners that the cause was when I dropped the trans out, then reinstalled it there was some sorta binding going on in the motor/trans mounts. I loosed all the motor mounts and trans mount bolts, started it and shifted from P to 1 several times, performed many power braking applications, some were extremely agressive. I then torqued all the bolts down....vibs went away.
I've gone through all the wickets everyone has mention: dampner, convertor, bent pulley etc etc.....
You might give it a try. I never had vibs before this until I removed the trans to replace the ring gear on the convertor.
Also, someone on Moparts referred me to a factory diagnosis diagram the Mother Mopar created back in the day. It was money! You might look in the arhcves....this has been since 2008...I'll look myself..
good luck!
I will def give this a shot! Thanks!
Posted By: 71STROKERFISH
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/27/11 12:12 AM
Let us know what you come up with....
Posted By: larrymopar360
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/27/11 12:16 AM
Quote:
Let us know what you come up with....
Oh believe me, I will!
Posted By: BigTerry
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 03/27/11 01:37 AM
check for crack flex plate.....
Posted By: BossRide
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 06/14/11 08:03 PM
Anybody have any other thoughts on this?
Mine is doing the same thing... about 10k miles on a rebuilt 360, new balancer, flexplate, TC, new 904 trans, mounts, belts off or on, park and neutral it still vibrates.... timing is good, oil pressure is good, no rattling noises, been doing it for a while... no drop in performance, just a harmonic-type of vibration around 2 grand.
is there anything on the inside that can go bad?? That's about all that's left on mine..
Posted By: scratchnfotraction
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 06/14/11 08:32 PM
are these rebuilt engines with new piston and not balanced afterwords?
Posted By: BossRide
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 06/14/11 08:44 PM
Mine was fully balanced during the rebuild, (with new pistons) and built by a good shop, and racked up lots of miles before any vibration.. it just kind of started. I originally thought it was a transmission bearing, but that's been changed... new flexplate, TC, balancer, mounts... no change.
Posted By: Manifold
Re: Please, please help with vibration problem - 09/22/11 05:52 AM
Subscribed.
