73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame

Posted By: Boise Chall

73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/10/10 06:33 AM

How can I ID a 73 Satellite/ Roadrunner Big block K frame. I have one Satellite that came with a 318 and was an all original car so I know that one is a small block K-frame but my parts car which is also a 73 Satellite Has a 440 in it but I think it was a factory small block car. Is there an easy way to tell a big block K-Frame from a small block K-frame. Pictures would help a lot thanks for the help.

Posted By: RonP

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/10/10 02:46 PM

I am not sure about these cars but I was recently told the k-members where the same. Don't know how true that is.

I have a 73 that had a 440 in it but it originally had a 318 in it. I remember my dad telling me that he put a kmember out of a BB cordoba in it, but like I said, I had a guy tell me that didn't make sense because they should have been the same.

Posted By: Boise Chall

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/10/10 04:03 PM

I decoded the VIN and this car was a factory small block car the motor seems to fit nicely even with headers. Without knowing what too look for I can't tell any difference between the K-frames. I did notice that the car with the 440 in it does not have an oil dipstick and I can't see behind the the motor mount to be able to tell why. Did all 440's have provisions for a dipstick on the driver's side of the block ? I hope so as I plan to use this motor in my car.

Posted By: IMGTX

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/10/10 05:18 PM

All 440's have a dip stick provision on the drivers side.

There is a difference in the K-frames in 73 and later BB vs. SB engines. Sorry I don't have pictures.

One way to tell a BB car is the passenger side inner fender is different. The small blocks had a full inner fender and a small access hole for the UCA adjustment bolts about 6" across with a metal plate over it. The BB cars had much of the inner fender removed from front of the UCA area to the firewall and from about 1/2 way down to the bottom. It was covered with a large rubber mat.

Posted By: feets

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/10/10 05:27 PM

I yanked the 360 out of my 74 RR and dropped in a 440 using Cordoba mounts and a C-body oil pan. It ran like that for 10 years. Fast forward 5 years and the guys on Moparts tell me I did it wrong.

Posted By: AndyF

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/10/10 05:42 PM

Schumacher has conversion motor mounts so you can put a big block into a small block K frame. I think they might also have pictures of the different K-frames on their website or in their book.

Posted By: James74

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/10/10 06:05 PM

the k frames are physically the same pieces, the difference is where the motor mount ears are welded on. I used to have pictures saved a couple of computers ago. This topic seems to come up every so often, and theres always a debate over if there was a difference or not. Not to say you can't put a big block onto a small block k frame. However, when I tried it in high school, I had some alignment issues....

Posted By: torkrules

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/10/10 07:04 PM

Quote:

How can I ID a 73 Satellite/ Roadrunner Big block K frame. I have one Satellite that came with a 318 and was an all original car so I know that one is a small block K-frame but my parts car which is also a 73 Satellite Has a 440 in it but I think it was a factory small block car. Is there an easy way to tell a big block K-Frame from a small block K-frame. Pictures would help a lot thanks for the help.

I dropped a mock up 440 block on small block K way back when. Looking at it, everything looked fine. My girlfriend (at the time) pointed out that the engine was crooked, and she was right. Not alot but enough to cause issues. My fix was to lop off the drives side mount and move it back about an inch to correct the problem. My understanding is that the pass side might is in a different spot too.

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/10/10 07:12 PM

Quote:

I yanked the 360 out of my 74 RR and dropped in a 440 using Cordoba mounts and a C-body oil pan. It ran like that for 10 years. Fast forward 5 years and the guys on Moparts tell me I did it wrong.

Another one of those things that books and computers say can't be done. But if you don't know any better and just go ahead and do it will work fine.

Posted By: 440fied

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/10/10 07:28 PM

This car was a 73 satellite with a 400.

Posted By: BossRide

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/10/10 09:44 PM

Quote:

How can I ID a 73 Satellite/ Roadrunner Big block K frame. I have one Satellite that came with a 318 and was an all original car so I know that one is a small block K-frame but my parts car which is also a 73 Satellite Has a 440 in it but I think it was a factory small block car. Is there an easy way to tell a big block K-Frame from a small block K-frame. Pictures would help a lot thanks for the help.

Another easy way if the car is still fairly intact is see of the passenger-side fender is solid, or has the rubber mat covering an opening in like in the picture above. Small block cars did not have the open fenderwell.

Another way... do you have the VIN?

Posted By: Boise Chall

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/10/10 10:27 PM

I know from the vin's and the P-side inner fender that both cars are small block cars I just don't know it the parts car with the big block in it has the factory K-frame or it was swapped for a big block K-frame.

Posted By: deansrr

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/10/10 10:29 PM

I drop a 340 into my 73 that had a 400, I had no problems, except getting the right mounts!

Posted By: QuickBpBp

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/10/10 10:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I yanked the 360 out of my 74 RR and dropped in a 440 using Cordoba mounts and a C-body oil pan. It ran like that for 10 years. Fast forward 5 years and the guys on Moparts tell me I did it wrong.

Another one of those things that books and computers say can't be done. But if you don't know any better and just go ahead and do it will work fine.

Sure you can

do it but the trans won't bolt up in the crossmember that why there IS a BB and SB K-member. I tried 20 year ago and couldn't get the mounts to fall in and ended up plasma cutting the mounts off and welding BB ones on....Everything lined up fine then. I couldn't imagine getting one in and driving it with the tail shaft of the trans pointing towards shock...

Oh and the easy way to tell whether the K-member is a BB or SB is that BB are straight across and the SB mounts are staggered in appearance when looking sideway at the K-member....

Posted By: RonP

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/11/10 01:25 AM

So based off that this is a BB k-member in the pic?

I hope to have this car back together for my son next summer and it hasn't had a motor in it for 20 years.

Like I said, this is an original SB car and I remember we had a BB in it and I disticntly remember helping my dad change the k-member with the motor in. I guess things weren't lined up right and someone told him to get a kmember from a cordoba and we did.

I have no idea what motor mounts to use or what they look like.

Attached picture 6349872-100_2249a.jpg

Posted By: RonP

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/11/10 01:27 AM

another

Posted By: QuickBpBp

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/11/10 01:34 AM

Yes it is a Big block K-member from what I can see in the pics and yes originallly a small block car. If you are planning on running headers you will need to trim some of the inner engine pan on the RH for tube clearance atleast I had to with my hooker super comps....

Posted By: RonP

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/11/10 01:54 AM

Yeah, i want to run headers, but I heard it will be a mess. What is funny is the guy that did the body work and paint fixed that exact spot as my dad had it all kinds of cut up holes punched and so forth. Bummer.

Where in that pic should I cut it?

Thanks a bunch and didn't mean to hijack this thread.

Posted By: Boise Chall

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/11/10 02:46 AM

I already cut and replaced the section on the RH lower inner fender to clear the headers So I don't think I'll have a problem with that.

Attached picture 6350082-innerfender3.JPG

Attached picture 6350082-innerfender3.JPG

Posted By: charger'72mod

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/11/10 08:54 PM

I think that the K member are the same, the difference is on the motor mounts, attached is a picture of my 400 bb charger k member with a 360 on it, the difference, only the mounts

Attached picture 6351362-SDC13200.JPG

Posted By: charger'72mod

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/11/10 08:55 PM

another picture

Attached picture 6351369-SDC13201.JPG

Posted By: charger'72mod

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/11/10 08:58 PM

last one

Posted By: Boise Chall

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/11/10 10:04 PM

Is that a -B- on the front of the passenger mount what does that mean?? I just noticed Mine has an -A- on it is this a way to tell the difference between the big block and small block K-frames? I'm getting totally confused here why do factory big block mounts in a factory small block K-frame work for some people but others it won't. My engine compartment and K-frame will be painted before I load the motor in from the top. I wasn't planning on doing a test fit before painting but now I'm thinking I better.

Posted By: jrwoodjoe

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/11/10 10:26 PM

My first engine swap ever was dropping a 383 six pack into a 73 RR that was a 318 car. Took all summer because (as a kid) I thought it would just bolt in.

After some research, I bought (IIRC) 400 Motor Mounts for 73 RR and I had to change the oil pan because the 383 sump hit the K-member and would keep the back of the engine from dropping down correctly. I went to a JY that had HUGE STACKS of OIl Pans. I spent several hours going through the oil pans until I found the one that would had the sump further back than mine. Don't know what it came from it was in the stack. Once I put the oil pan on, everything lined up fine. I do not know what the 383 engine and trans originally came out of but I pulled them from a 66 Fury a guy had "rodded". I don't recall having any issues getting the transmission to work, however the tail shaft was longer on the big block trans and I had to get a shorter driveshaft which I found in a wrecked big block RR in a local JY at the time.

Car ran and drove great w/ no issues.

Posted By: Runnin74

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/12/10 06:41 AM

Looks to me like the big block and small block k-frames are different. The small block mounts are set further forward and the left one is slightly more forward than the right mount.
See the photo - compares the above big block k-frame pics to pics of my small block k-frame.

Attached picture 6352441-BBvsSB73-74k-frame.jpg

Attached picture 6352441-BBvsSB73-74k-frame.jpg

Posted By: Boise Chall

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/12/10 07:46 AM

Thank you for the comparison pics I will order the Schumacher mounts on Monday. Schumacher's website says you need to cut some of the mount for oil pump clearance. Has anybody done this ? can it be done safely after the K-frame/engine compartment are painted ?

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/12/10 07:51 AM

The k-frames are physically the same pieces, the difference is where the motor mount perches are welded onto the k-frame. My car came with the 440 in the small block k-frame with original type 440 mounts. It fit in but I have since changed to the schumacher conversion mounts. When I first got the car, the 440 sat too high in the front and too far forward. The conversion mount dropped the motor down about 1" and moved it back about 1". I now have more fan-rad clearance and it got rid of a pinion angle mis-match which was causing a vibration at speed. It fit with the mis-matched stock stuff but I now have more clearance for aftermarket intakes/air cleaner and my el-cheapo summit headers fit great.

Posted By: screamindriver

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/12/10 06:28 PM

Quote:

The k-frames are physically the same pieces, the difference is where the motor mount perches are welded onto the k-frame. My car came with the 440 in the small block k-frame with original type 440 mounts. It fit in but I have since changed to the schumacher conversion mounts. When I first got the car, the 440 sat too high in the front and too far forward. The conversion mount dropped the motor down about 1" and moved it back about 1". I now have more fan-rad clearance and it got rid of a pinion angle mis-match which was causing a vibration at speed. It fit with the mis-matched stock stuff but I now have more clearance for aftermarket intakes/air cleaner and my el-cheapo summit headers fit great.

....And the whole trouble and confusion begins with the fact that the big block WILL just sit right in there tricking someone into thinking it's a done deal...They should have spread the mounts from BB to SB to avoid the confusion...

Posted By: QuickBpBp

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/12/10 09:34 PM

Quote:

Looks to me like the big block and small block k-frames are different. The small block mounts are set further forward and the left one is slightly more forward than the right mount.
See the photo - compares the above big block k-frame pics to pics of my small block k-frame.

Great pics showing EXACTLY what I said as far as them being straight VS staggered.....You can physically set the motor in but nothing lines up you can see how crooked it would be as my tailshaft was pointing towards the rear shock....Manifolds make it look like it could fit but put headers and a trans behind it and you'll see how incorrect it is. I will check on my car how much I trimmed but I don't think trhe pics showed have enough clearance on the top part....Too cold and wet to look out in the garage today....

Posted By: jrwoodjoe

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/12/10 10:06 PM

Wish I had been able to access info. like this when I did my car. Maybe, it wouldn't have took all summer.

I know that I was able to get it to work but perhaps the alignment was off w/o me knowing. I do not recall anything being terribly out of line but there is obviously a difference between the 2 K-members as shown in the pics.

Joe

Posted By: RonP

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/13/10 02:32 AM

Thanks Guys

Now I know for sure it is a BB K-member like my dad said, but I have no idea what mounts to use or how they go on the engine. ANy help would be appreciated.

Seems that the last three cars I owned have used motor plates.

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: 73 Satellite / Roadrunner BB or small block K-frame - 12/13/10 05:49 AM

It's pretty straight-forward. You need a set of spool type BB motor mounts. The mounts bolt to the ears on the block and each mount takes one long bolt that bolts the mount to the k-frame perches. Should be able to score what you need for pretty cheap.