How hard will it be to repair this rust?

Posted By: feets

How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 04:42 AM

I'm looking at a car that has zero reproduction sheet metal. They're pretty rare too.
How hard would it be to repair/replace this roof assuming another vinyl top roof is not available?
My concern is with rust on the header under the skin. The car is 650 miles away so I can't do a visual inspection.

Yes, the repair would be covered with vinyl but that is no excuse to do shoddy repair work.

Attached picture 6212170-66fanshroud69coupe035copy.jpg

Attached picture 6212170-66fanshroud69coupe035copy.jpg

Posted By: earlybee

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 04:52 AM

You know the guys up north are laughing at this problem!

Posted By: OzHemi

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 04:54 AM

I know what the easy fix would be...

I even have a few blades left over after the last one..

Posted By: OzHemi

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 04:56 AM

BTW....guys in Oz I know did a similar repair pretty well, just made up a patch piece on an english wheel sort of deal to get the right curve and welded it in. Windshield out of course so you can see just how far to dig to get to solid metal.

Posted By: 340SHORTY

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 06:31 AM

that sail panel has bout seen its last voyage..

Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 10:27 AM

if you cover it with another top, that would be easy to fix. just do it in a bunch of small patches and bondo over it to smooth it all out when done. if you cover it with another top, it doesn't have to be perfect, just solid and weatherproof.

a simple shrinker stretcher and sheet metal break will get the job done for you. I'd use the shrinker streatcher and make several patches 10-12 inches long, and weld them in in steps.

Posted By: Commando1

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 12:42 PM

Quote:

I'm looking at a car...

Posted By: darepairman

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 01:05 PM

Posted By: feets

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 01:48 PM

Quote:

that sail panel has bout seen its last voyage.. ..

That's not the sail panel. It's the leading edge of the roof above the windshield.

Seriously though, this is the body style I've been looking for and they're really hard to find.
Since I don't have an english wheel or other metal forming tools things will be a bit tougher. Repair panels would have to be formed by hand.

Posted By: Fat_Mike

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 02:48 PM

Quote:

Yes, the repair would be covered with vinyl but that is no excuse to do shoddy repair work.

I would think it depends on whether you intend to do the work, or if you're going to send it to a shop. Surely there's a reputable shop within a reasonable distance that could do it, but I doubt it would be cheap. If you intend to do it yourself, here's what I'd do (and I never have): take the windshield out. Measure the length and depth of what needs to be cut out. Measurements the angles for the breaks in the replacement sheet metal. Take that info to a local metal fabrication shop and have them cut and break a few straight pieces (at least one to practice on). To bend it, you'll have to cut notches at 1-2 inch intervals. Bend, hammer, weld, grind, fill, paint and you're done. Sound easy enough? Good luck!!!

Posted By: feets

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 03:19 PM

I work in the bodyshop of a high end dealership. Some of the guys here have done rust repairs on older cars. The guy who did high end restoration and fab work (Dusenbers and such) is no longer with us.
Unforunately, most of the guys in the shop want perfect parts to work with and don't take any interest in forming panels themselves.

I thought I'd toss it out here and see what you guys had to say.
I might be able to grab a section of roof off a current car to patch in.

What are the chances of the header below the roof skin being rusted through? I don't know that I want to get into patching structural stuff.

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 03:33 PM

I did the front roof of my truck with all metal

not bad as yours but it did have some holess and I blasted it,filed it,sanded it,primerd it,now its ready for 320 and paint

not sure if thats the way to go on it but just a suggestion

worked good on shaveing the gas door/mirror/trim holes on mine also

ospho it to kill the rust

I would say that would be the hardest part of any car is the front roof line and sheet metal

Posted By: klunick

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 04:11 PM

Working with a break or a roll is not all that hard. They are not cheap but Northern Tool has some that I am positive you would find useful. That being said, I would personally look for another car. Your near the west, someone in western Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico has to have a car you would find more pleasing. Don't jump at this just because you think this is the only one. Take your time. I guarantee you will find a better one in the next 6 months.

Posted By: GMP440

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 04:13 PM

There is a good chance the metal header panel is rusted as well. With the rot up in the roof line rust is below too. Be prepared for worse case senario with what you have. Lots of good metal fabrication suggestions in this thread. Take your time, take the window out and repair upper and lower metal areas.

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 04:39 PM

Kevin, how about a section of roof off a similar New Yorker/300/Newport the majority of the roof is gonna be the same, the support structure would be the same.. I had a front header bow for my B body vert that was rusty, everyone that look thought is was gonna be a huge deal to fix.. I cut the front 8" off a similar body style 4 door & worked that into the final shape, it turned out great & only took about a day..

Posted By: gtx69

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 04:52 PM

What type of car is it? year model

Posted By: feets

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 05:02 PM

I'm concerned with where the water went after leaking through the roof. It had to run down the A pillars. Chances are, they're toast too. No doubt the floors would hold it and get nasty as well.

Combine that with the color combo and I think the more doors I've seen are better cars to work with.

This is an incredibly high optioned car and it's a shame to see it die. I want to know WHY someone would order a gold car with a white top and green interior.
Drugs ran rampant in 1969 and I think we uncovered the evidence here.

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 05:05 PM

Don't get in to much of a hurry the right two door will come along..

Posted By: HitIt

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 05:27 PM

What direction are you going with this build? If it's full custom why not throw another roof on it from a similar era car? It can be a cool effect on the right car.

Just throwing out asinine ideas.

Posted By: Commando1

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 06:16 PM

Quote:

Don't get in to much of a hurry the right two door will come along..

Like this one for example...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...#ht_1109wt_1166

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 06:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Don't get in to much of a hurry the right two door will come along..

Like this one for example...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...#ht_1109wt_1166

Funny, I PMed that to Kevin earlier..

Looks surprisingly good/solid for a car in Jersey.. Hopefully a local member can look it over..

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 06:36 PM

I wouldn't be afraid to patch it in (weld in metal).

You could also replace that section with one from another car, it doesn't have to be an Imperial.
Just a similar shaped windshield header from a Chrysler would probably work.

On a side note, have you seen this car?
73 2 door Imperial on Racing Junk

Posted By: GomangoCuda

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 06:44 PM

Quote:

I'm concerned with where the water went after leaking through the roof. It had to run down the A pillars. Chances are, they're toast too. No doubt the floors would hold it and get nasty as well.

Yea it's probably even worse than that. I bet you can stick your fingers right through to the inside of the car. In addition to the a pillars and floor you can also expect the dash, firewall, and plenum to be ugly. Even the steering column might be unusable. For sure the sunvisors, carpet and upholstery are toast.

Keep looking for a better one. That one is going to need way too much

and whole bunch of

Posted By: whitemtnelf

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 07:08 PM

I second GoMangoCuda's opinion. I'm working on a car that didn't look half as bad as your pics and found out the rust was twice as bad as I had thought. You'll have to cut back pretty far to get to steel that you can weld to. Because that is a structural member you're probably looking at something like 18g steel with some tight bends. I've been working 18g steel to fix my rocker panels and its noticeably harder to work with than the 20g I've been using for body panels. This is my first attempt to do panel forming and it takes a lot of practice so be prepared to have to make the piece a couple of times before you get it right.

Posted By: feets

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 07:32 PM

I'm gonna pass on the gold car unless the guy is giving it away.
The racing junk car is a rust bucket. There are holes in the rockers where the A pillar joins in. All the body seams are rusty. It's the car owned by the guy who accused me of being a scammer. He later spent an hour on the phone with me and sent a truck load of pics.

The Ebay car looks nice but it becomes a question of how high will it go? I'm really strapped for cash.

Naturally, having money means you have no time.
Having time means you don't have money.

I've gotta be cheap. I'd like to find a car with a few options and black interior. The coupes are what I really want but I'd take a crew cab too.

Posted By: RodStRace

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 09:35 PM

FEETS, take a look at this thread

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=337728&showall=1

If that doesn't scare you, maybe you can do it too.

Posted By: OzHemi

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 10:30 PM

Quote:

FEETS, take a look at this thread

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=337728&showall=1

If that doesn't scare you, maybe you can do it too.

Some really nice work there!

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/23/10 11:54 PM

If it's rusted in that area what do the "normal" rust areas like quarters, trunk floor, and trunk floor extensions look like?! Back window? Lower front fenders?

Posted By: feets

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/24/10 01:56 AM

Quote:

If it's rusted in that area what do the "normal" rust areas like quarters, trunk floor, and trunk floor extensions look like?! Back window? Lower front fenders?

The other rusty areas aren't bad. The driver's quarter has some rust but it hasn't broken through more than an inch from the wheel opening. The car is in decent shape with the exception of that roof.

Posted By: 69RTSE

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/24/10 02:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Don't get in to much of a hurry the right two door will come along..

Like this one for example...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...#ht_1109wt_1166

Wow! Did you guys see that window sticker?!?! $7300 in 1969! Thats alot of green!

Posted By: Tommy383

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/24/10 02:53 AM

i had the same rust along the roof of my 70 rr....ended up buying a roof from a 69, and having it welded up....couldnt tell it was different without looking behind the headliner.....i think i paid 150 for the roof...and a couple hundred for the bodywork...
BUT i dont know how hard it would be to find a parts car like that one...

Posted By: johnzgarage

Re: How hard will it be to repair this rust? - 09/24/10 04:32 AM

That's a not that hard to fix. That's just a pimple, compaired to the "cancer" us northern guy's fix. Just take your time ,It will come out great.