Moparts
Passon 5 Speed
Posted By: JamiePasson
Passon 5 Speed - 09/16/10 03:10 PM
Forgive my absence on the board here lately. I have been buried trying to stay on top of things. I just checked some posts and people were asking about progress on the 5 speed trans.
Well let me assure you that we ARE making progress on it. It has been slower than we wanted. Keep in mind, we started with a clean sheet of paper here. We are a small company and things take time.
This is why my intention from the beginning was not to mention anything until we were closer to production. However, the McLeod M800 thing kinda threw a wrench in that and I felt that I had better mention that we were working on a project so that people knew that another option was coming.
Regardless, in the spring, we had several casting changes to make. These have been made and we are working on the gear interlock mechanism now. We are currently waiting on the shift forks and parts for the interlock mechanism.
We had hoped to have a display piece for the Mopar Nationals, but vendor time frames kept us from accomplishing that.
Yes, this is taking longer than I originally thought. There have been plenty of hiccups along the way. However, due to the fact that there will be no mods needed to install it like some of the other options out there. It is truly an afternoon swap if your car is currently a 4 speed.
I am cleaning out my PM mailbox as soon as I post this. Feel free to contact me with any questions, OR you can always call or e-mail.
Thanks,
Jamie
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/16/10 05:03 PM
That good to hear Jamie,...I'd be interested in seeing what you've come up with,....any estimates on weight, just the transmission, and finial OD ratios available?...I'm curious are I'm sure others are
Mike
Posted By: JamiePasson
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/16/10 05:57 PM
At this point, .70:1 is final drive. I don't really want to comment on a weight estimate yet.
Posted By: Ghoste
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/16/10 06:02 PM
Still nice to know you are making progress. Looking forward to the final announcement.
Posted By: Commando1
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/16/10 06:11 PM
Test cars needed???????
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/16/10 06:19 PM
Posted By: efisixpack
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/16/10 06:25 PM
What do you estimate the torque capacity to be? I'm definately interested if it can handle decent power and truely is a bolt-in kit. I've put 5000 miles on my 71 demon this summer and the 4-spped is killing me on the highway with just a 3.55 gear. Pleas e keep us updated as time/progress allows.
Posted By: Dragula
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/16/10 07:11 PM
I see this seems to be more street orientated trans but, forgive me for not looking up the older post, can this thing be used street/strip with slicks and a big block? Just curious on what rating you will be giving it and what kind of car its aimed at. Seems to be lots of choices in the lower hp areana, but less when you build a big block.
Posted By: sshemi
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/16/10 08:05 PM
Will stock sb/bb clutch work?
Posted By: JamiePasson
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/16/10 08:09 PM
This unit will certainly be able to be used in a race application. We are looking at being able to handle reasonable torque with the stage 1 unit. I will get back to people on closer numbers when we are further along. The Stage 2 trans will handle more power.
I appreciate all the offers for test cars. We have that pretty well taken care of. We have at least one of each body style here, plus I know other people in warmer climates that can handle "winter" testing because they never see snow. So, we are good I think.
As for standard SB/BB clutch working? I am confused by your question. The clutch required will be your standard garden variety 18 spline clutch and throwout bearing with the appropriate pressure plate of course. One more plus for the consumer. Not being tied to us for a special clutch.
It will be made in both 4.35" and 4.80" bearing retainer. This way, you can bolt it up to ANY stock small block (except OD) or big block bellhousing with NO MODS to your bellhousing.
Posted By: Rhinodart
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/17/10 03:17 AM
Posted By: jbc426
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/17/10 03:46 AM
What a wonderful way to spend an afternoon! There's more than a few of us that can hardly wait.
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Posted By: MadMatt
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/17/10 04:44 AM
Hi Jamie,
My post is one of the ones I think you were referring to. Anyway, I'm trying to gather parts in anticipation of your trans coming out. Just to be certain, I can purchase a standard A-833 Quicktime bellhousing, a standard LA 360 flywheel, and an 18 spline clutch and T/O bearing and all will be fine, right? Basically all I will need from you is the trans and shifter?
Posted By: Jerry
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/17/10 12:51 PM
did i miss it somewhere? but what are the rest of the ratios in the trans?
Posted By: gtx6970
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/17/10 01:01 PM
I'll have a nice winter project that may be a good place for a stock outward appearing 5 speed. Hopefully to replace the heavyweight 4 speed with NO modifications to the chassis of the intended car. AND still retains the stock factory looking console shifter
Posted By: JamiePasson
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/17/10 09:16 PM
That is correct. The shifter is actually part of the trans. It will be available in press in or bolt on type so that you can use your existing factory 4 speed handle if you desire.
The ratios are as follow:
2.65
1.92
1.40
1.00
.70
Thanks,
jamie
Posted By: jbc426
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/17/10 10:28 PM
Quote:
That is correct. The shifter is actually part of the trans. It will be available in press in or bolt on type so that you can use your existing factory 4 speed handle if you desire.
The ratios are as follow:
2.65
1.92
1.40
1.00
.70
Thanks,
jamie
Nice ratio selection, I drove a buddies Keisler equipted, 3.54 geared 440 b-body the other day, and it just felt like the car could use a bit steeper overdrive. Even with 3.54's, when you launch through the gears, you're shifting pretty quickly from 1st through 3rd.
On a track with slicks in the quarter mile it's obviously another story, but in the real world we're talking about top-end speed that is limited only by the car's ability to stay on the road and not start flying.
Wasn't it Richard Petty who said that with 3.54 rear-end gears, his top end was almost unlimited? Imagine if they had this tranmission back in the days of Rapid Transit and Vanishing Point!
Your ratios with the .70 OD sounds perfect, especially with a stroker motor on the freeway these days.
After looking atr the Kiesler website, it seems I was misinformed about the Kiesler 5th gear ratio. Sorry.
Posted By: Moneypit6
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/17/10 11:03 PM
I remember some time ago that steeper ratios for the lower gears may have been an option. Will there be any possibility of getting something with a steeper 1st gear??
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/18/10 12:40 PM
Quote:
I remember some time ago that steeper ratios for the lower gears may have been an option. Will there be any possibility of getting something with a steeper 1st gear??
You planning on running a 2.26 rear gear or something? 2.65 first gear is fine, anything lower is getting into granny gear territory.
Posted By: bp27
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/18/10 02:25 PM
You planning on running a 2.26 rear gear or something? 2.65 first gear is fine, anything lower is getting into granny gear territory.
Really I run 3.09 first with 4.10 rear and I like the way the car launches
Posted By: JamiePasson
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/20/10 03:38 PM
These are very similar to stock 18 spline ratios. We are still kicking around a steeper first gear, but not really sure about it. Just due to the cost of building something like this, I am not sure that we are going to be able to make a one off steep first gear. Not out of the question, but just not right away.
Jamie
Posted By: Triggerfish
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/20/10 04:17 PM
Jamie, sure am glad you're tooling these up. Just what I'm needing for my hemi challenger w/ 3.73's. Didn't want to go the Keisler route. What do you think the cost would be? I'd sell my 18 spline 4spd & recoup some of the cost. Also, thanks for the fast shipping on my seal kit. Buzz
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/20/10 07:57 PM
Any thoughts on what a realistic timeframe for these hitting production might be? Mid 2011 maybe..?
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/20/10 10:59 PM
Quote:
You planning on running a 2.26 rear gear or something? 2.65 first gear is fine, anything lower is getting into granny gear territory.
Really I run 3.09 first with 4.10 rear and I like the way the car launches
I bet it launches great and teaching your wife/kid to drive a stick with that setup is easier, but i also bet the shift to 2nd is quick at WOT. It's all in the balance, I have a 65 Cuda with 3.55 gears and relatively short (~26") tires. I don't need, or want a 3.09 first gears. If I still had my 64 300 with the 4.10 gears and 28" tall tires I still wouldn't want the 3.09 gears, but my cars are al street oriented, not strip.
Posted By: JamiePasson
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/22/10 01:25 PM
At this point, I am feeling that a realistic time frame is mid 2011. As for cost, we are shooting for less than a "typical" Keisler conversion. We will also work with people taking A-833 cores for credit toward the 5 speed trans if they are interested.
Thanks,
Jamie
Posted By: 69hemibeep
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/22/10 02:58 PM
Jamie, what are you doing as far as a shifter goes?
Posted By: abodyjoe
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/22/10 03:33 PM
Quote:
At this point, I am feeling that a realistic time frame is mid 2011. As for cost, we are shooting for less than a "typical" Keisler conversion. We will also work with people taking A-833 cores for credit toward the 5 speed trans if they are interested.
Thanks,
Jamie
sweet. can't wait to see this thing. already put pedals in my dart just need a trans now. 
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/22/10 03:33 PM
Thanks for the timing update, that's about what I was thinking. I think the mcleod transmission must be quite a bit behind schedule too because I thought last winter they were saying summer 2010 and that never happened. Will be interesting to read what kind of power theirs will take compared to yours. I'm sure yours will come out on top of their overseas made unit.
Quote:
Jamie, what are you doing as far as a shifter goes?
I thought he already said in this thread or somewhere else that the shifter mechanisim will be part of the transmission with the handle being a bolt-on of your choice.
Posted By: KillerBee
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/22/10 11:02 PM
Quote:
At this point, I am feeling that a realistic time frame is mid 2011. As for cost, we are shooting for less than a "typical" Keisler conversion. We will also work with people taking A-833 cores for credit toward the 5 speed trans if they are interested.
Thanks,
Jamie
This is great news.
I would definitely be interested in a transmission like this and I have three A-833 cores ready to go. 
Maybe I missed something, but you are using 833 cases?
It will ALL fit inside? And OEM shifter location is retained?
Would be nice if it can handle at least 600ft-lb of tq.
Posted By: domingo
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/23/10 12:39 AM
Quote:
Maybe I missed something, but you are using 833 cases?
It will ALL fit inside? And OEM shifter location is retained?
Would be nice if it can handle at least 600ft-lb of tq.
i dont think so....
he says he will receive 4 speed cores as part payment because he can always use some cores to rebuild and re sell....its his business...
Posted By: JamiePasson
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/23/10 02:50 PM
Domingo is correct. This is an entirely new case. We have designed it though to retain all the critical dimensions necessary to not require modifications to the car.
We will take the A-833 cores because we will still continue to do 4 speed stuff as well. We have no intention on stopping that. As for a shifter, this will be an external shifter. Same arrangement as your original factory piece. Obviously internally different due to the need for 5th gear. However, we plan on building these with the appropriate tower to accept a press in shifter handle as well as a bolt handle. The customer will make this decision when they order the trans. The Stage 1 trans will be able to handle close to 600 lb/ft of torque CONTINUOUS. Of course, more than that in bursts. With the Stage 2 unit, 600 lb/ft of torque CONTINUOUS will not be a problem at all.
Posted By: jake4cars
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/23/10 02:54 PM
Good Luck Jamie, sounds like a cool deal!
Joey
I'm sold...and since I'm far from my the need to get a trans (need more body work), I can wait until next year.
Keisler can keep their trans for GM cars...
Posted By: MadMatt
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/23/10 04:59 PM
Quote:
As for cost, we are shooting for less than a "typical" Keisler conversion.
Jamie, is that lower cost going to be driven primarily by the need to change fewer parts? I'm going to be doing an A/T to stick conversion. Do you think it will still work out to less than the Keisler auto to stick conversion? Will you be offering any "packages" to support that sort of conversion?
Posted By: RTSE4ME
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/23/10 05:07 PM
I bet this trans will be very popular. The ratios are perfect for most cars. I bet a person could do the swap in a couple hours if they had an existing 4 speed.
My only complaint is you didn't do this 5 years ago.
Good Luck!!
Quote:
Quote:
As for cost, we are shooting for less than a "typical" Keisler conversion.
Jamie, is that lower cost going to be driven primarily by the need to change fewer parts? I'm going to be doing an A/T to stick conversion. Do you think it will still work out to less than the Keisler auto to stick conversion? Will you be offering any "packages" to support that sort of conversion?
Good point. If you need a crossmember, driveshaft, it may come out the same.
And for conversions...cost of things like bellhousings and clutch...those are all extra anyways w/either kit.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/23/10 08:54 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As for cost, we are shooting for less than a "typical" Keisler conversion.
Jamie, is that lower cost going to be driven primarily by the need to change fewer parts? I'm going to be doing an A/T to stick conversion. Do you think it will still work out to less than the Keisler auto to stick conversion? Will you be offering any "packages" to support that sort of conversion?
Good point. If you need a crossmember, driveshaft, it may come out the same.
And for conversions...cost of things like bellhousings and clutch...those are all extra anyways w/either kit.
Generally a complete conversion kit from Keisler to go from auto to stick, complete driveshaft, transmission crossmember, transmission mount, bellhousing, clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, shifter/shifter boot, hyd TOB assy, hyd master cylinder, all the assy hardware, pedals, and of course the transmission TKO 600 5 spd .064 .68, or.82 OD is approx. $4400 to $4700 depending on the application,....you could delete the hyd TOB and save $500 if you prefer mechanical linkage
Mike
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/24/10 05:41 AM
Quote:
Quote:
As for cost, we are shooting for less than a "typical" Keisler conversion.
Jamie, is that lower cost going to be driven primarily by the need to change fewer parts? I'm going to be doing an A/T to stick conversion. Do you think it will still work out to less than the Keisler auto to stick conversion? Will you be offering any "packages" to support that sort of conversion?
The m/t specific stuff is not cheap. You're looking a few hundred bucks for a used bell housing if you want a big block unit and/or a blow-proof unit. Few hundred for a decent clutch, couple hundred for a clutch pedal setup, then the linkage, shifter, blah blah blah it goes on and on. I'm in the process of a auto->4sp conversion and the $$ add up fast on this stuff and I've been scrounging for used parts.
Posted By: jbc426
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/24/10 06:39 AM
Quote:
.....600 lb/ft of torque should not be a problem at all.
600 lb/ft? I was hoping it would handle somewhere in the 700lb/ft range. I've got 680b/ft with a relatively mild, hydraulicly cammed 493 inch motor. Do you think that your new transmission will handle it ok?
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/24/10 01:34 PM
Quote:
The m/t specific stuff is not cheap. You're looking a few hundred bucks for a used bell housing if you want a big block unit and/or a blow-proof unit. Few hundred for a decent clutch, couple hundred for a clutch pedal setup, then the linkage, shifter, blah blah blah it goes on and on. I'm in the process of a auto->4sp conversion and the $$ add up fast on this stuff and I've been scrounging for used parts.
I dunno about that, I converted my 87 Diplomat over to stick. The total to switch was under $1000. Ebay and bone yard shopping plus me doing all the work kept it real low. $125 for the trans, Ebay kit to rebuild it, Ebay clutch kit for $100, bone yard for clutch pedal/linkage/floor hump. MP kit to freshen up the linkages, boneyard flywheel out of a V6 Dakota, new Hurst shifter from Summit, bone yard for a drive shaft yoke, new u joints.
I started with nothing for a stick conversion, spent less than $1000 and had a 4 speed with all new or rebuilt (mostly by me) parts in it.
After I got done with the swap I found a package deal on 2.5 A833's, a couple of bells, a big box full of linkages, pedals, clutch stuff, etc for under $300, on Ebay, for my 65 Cuda.
I dunno about that, I converted my 87 Diplomat over to stick. The total to switch was under $1000. Ebay and bone yard shopping plus me doing all the work kept it real low. $125 for the trans, Ebay kit to rebuild it, Ebay clutch kit for $100, bone yard for clutch pedal/linkage/floor hump. MP kit to freshen up the linkages, boneyard flywheel out of a V6 Dakota, new Hurst shifter from Summit, bone yard for a drive shaft yoke, new u joints.
You obviously haven't checked out parts for the more popular cars IE: 66-70 B and 70-70 E and 71-74 B cars. Brewers does a complete 4 speed swap for The mid 4k range. Our pricing to do a FORD trans not Gm trans into most of the popular Mopars is around $5300 including hydraulic it actually doesn't save money to go mechanical because all the parts involved.
We have a very complete kit right down to every nut bolt ans washer even the factory boots and trim rings. All you need to install ours is Beer and band aids.
Good luck Jamie!!
Being quite familiar with Kieslers offerings and prices I can second what Gene said above, those are accurate numbers. That being said, I'll be first in line to try a new Passon 5 speed basically because it sounds like it will be a simpler swap,
will not require cutting or modifying my car and is more like the factory unit it replaces. It looks like price will make it easier to afford as well. I guess we'll all have to wait and see, get to work Jamie!
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/24/10 06:32 PM
Quote:
I dunno about that, I converted my 87 Diplomat over to stick.
Apples to oranges my friend. Just try finding junkyard parts for any of the popular muscle era cars. Not gonna happen. I scrounged for used stuff and the cost still adds up. There are no cheap big block bellhousings and no $100 new ebay clutch will hold up behind a strong 440 for a run down the track. I can convert an 80's fwd turbo mopar from auto to stick for a couple hundred bucks including the price of a new clutch. Can't even compare the two.
Wow, I just stumbled on this thread. How exciting! Now I am glad I didn't spring for the 4 speed OD a couple years ago!
Posted By: jbc426
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/24/10 07:58 PM
Quote:
Quote:
.....600 lb/ft of torque should not be a problem at all.
600 lb/ft? I was hoping it would handle somewhere in the 700lb/ft range. I've got 680b/ft with a relatively mild, hydraulicly cammed 493 inch motor. Do you think that your new transmission will handle it ok?
Perhaps a better question is at 600ft lb/ft; relatively speaking, does that make the new 5 speed unit stronger than an 18 spline or are they about the same?
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Posted By: sogtx
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/25/10 02:16 AM
Great Job , Keep plugging ,
too bad the post got jacked for a second .
Ok . Ill stop ..
Can I trade in and upgrade from my "NEVER INSTALLED YET BECAUSE I KEEP GETTING DISTRACTED By other car projects " passon 4 speed OD ?
Im almost there ..BUT, I think Im getting distracted from my road car again .
Posted By: NV69B7RR
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/25/10 03:14 AM
Will there be a bolt in A body 5spd too?
Posted By: gdonovan
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/25/10 08:33 AM
Inquring on A body fittment too!
Posted By: MadMatt
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/25/10 05:48 PM
I'd like to confirm that too. Will the A-bodies be covered as soon as you bring the trans to market?
I'd be interested in the A-body one too...the four-speed is nice in my Dart but another gear would be sweet.
As for the cost of the swap, we've got $1,500 in ours...using lots of used parts and we rebuilt the A833 ourselves. The heavy duty clutch/pressure plate and flywheel were the most expensive parts. It does nickle and dime you.
Posted By: badblack68
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/25/10 10:04 PM
If this swap is as easy as removing my 18 spline box and installing your 18 spline 5 speed box, count me in. Will the speedo cable, trans crossmember mount, and reverse light switch wiring needs any mods? Will the trans length be the same so that no drive shaft mods are needed? I absolutely refuse to modify any part of my stock floor pan to accomodate a swap of this type. This would be going into my 68 Charger, 426 Hemi with stock exhaust. If all I have to do is purchase the trans and some fluid it seems like it may be a no brainer. Sounds like the sooner you get all the engineering and testing done the sooner the market will be flooded with 18 spline 4 speed hemi boxes.
100%
BTW, mark me down for 2 A body units!
Posted By: theclutcher
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/25/10 11:26 PM
Same ratios as street trans plus od.
Far removed from red stripe spread.
Can understand the marketing to larger group of potential buyers (street) vs (race).
Personally, Id just bolt on a gear vendors unit if I was so desperate for od, cheaper by a couple of grand.
Modifying sheetmetal not a concern here.
Sounds interesting tho and they will sell.
Good luck.
Whats the chance of shelving the 5 speed idea and switching right to making it a 6 speed? hmmmmmmm.........
Posted By: LimeliteAero
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/26/10 08:37 PM
Quote:
Whats the chance of shelving the 5 speed idea and switching right to making it a 6 speed? hmmmmmmm.........
whats the gain?
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/26/10 08:52 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Whats the chance of shelving the 5 speed idea and switching right to making it a 6 speed? hmmmmmmm.........
whats the gain?
More costly to built and buy.
Hey 6 is better that 5, right?
Seriously, I'm sure there is some little amount of fuel economy to be gained from an extra gear, but I don't see that justifing the extra cost and possibly/probably tighter fitment.
tighter gear ratios, more versatility... lot of car companies are going with 6 speed manuals / 7 speed automatics. Must be something to it. Definitely somewhat more complicated/ expensive...
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/27/10 01:35 AM
Quote:
tighter gear ratios, more versatility... lot of car companies are going with 6 speed manuals / 7 speed automatics. Must be something to it.
Basically because they're not building for muscle car guys. 6 speeds usually have two overdrive gears instead of one like a 5-sp. If the extra overdrive gear is just there to lessen the drop in rpm between 4th gear(1:1 ratio) and overdrive, I don't see the point. I could see this irritating some yuppie driving a lexus but it wouldn't matter to me.
Posted By: shart70rt
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/27/10 02:33 AM
Same situation for me, new gears are in the tranny, but the new tranny's will probably be ready before I have the Charger back together again.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/27/10 03:19 AM
Basically because they're not building for muscle car guys. 6 speeds usually have two overdrive gears instead of one like a 5-sp. If the extra overdrive gear is just there to lessen the drop in rpm between 4th gear(1:1 ratio) and overdrive, I don't see the point. I could see this irritating some yuppie driving a lexus but it wouldn't matter to me.
You don't see the advantage of a 6 spd?,.....Dodge Viper for example, 6 spd double OD Tremec T56, with a 4:10 rear gear allows you awesome street performance and 190 MPH top end speeds;...that's the advantage of 6 spds....but you Mopar guys are just warming up to 5 spds,..finally 
,....another 10 years you'll see the benefits of 6 gears
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/27/10 07:01 AM
Quote:
Basically because they're not building for muscle car guys. 6 speeds usually have two overdrive gears instead of one like a 5-sp. If the extra overdrive gear is just there to lessen the drop in rpm between 4th gear(1:1 ratio) and overdrive, I don't see the point. I could see this irritating some yuppie driving a lexus but it wouldn't matter to me.
You don't see the advantage of a 6 spd?,.....Dodge Viper for example, 6 spd double OD Tremec T56, with a 4:10 rear gear allows you awesome street performance and 190 MPH top end speeds;...that's the advantage of 6 spds....but you Mopar guys are just warming up to 5 spds,..finally ,....another 10 years you'll see the benefits of 6 gears
And how many muscle car guys actually will drive their car like that to see any benefit from a 6-speed? 99% of your market for this just wants 4-sp gearing for the track and the street with a nice overdrive gear to make highway cruising comfortable. 
Posted By: 67Charger
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/27/10 08:18 AM
Don't forget to mention, do you really want your driveshaft spinning at 8000+ rpm? Numerically lower gear rear end with a numerically higher low gear in the trans and a good overdrive keep the driveshaft spinning at something resembling a sane speed and still have a good launch.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/27/10 08:31 AM
Quote:
Don't forget to mention, do you really want your driveshaft spinning at 8000+ rpm? Numerically lower gear rear end with a numerically higher low gear in the trans and a good overdrive keep the driveshaft spinning at something resembling a sane speed and still have a good launch.
Hey I resemble that remark....
I view my driveshaft as a rev limiter. When I can't see out of the rear view mirror because it's vibrating so much, it's time to slow down.
Posted By: fbernard
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/27/10 01:40 PM
Quote:
Quote:
And how many muscle car guys actually will drive their car like that to see any benefit from a 6-speed? 99% of your market for this just wants 4-sp gearing for the track and the street with a nice overdrive gear to make highway cruising comfortable.
Having too much spread between 1:1 and overdrive is not always nice on the road. My Tremec (TKO-600, .64 overdrive) feels like a 6-speed missing the 5th gear. The minimum speed in 5th is the posted speed limit on public highways here, so I often have to switch back to 4th just to maintain RPMs above 1500 (worse things in life, I know).
And on a racetrack, I can't accelerate past 150mph because of the spread. 6500 RPM in 4th, all is fine, when I upshift the revs drop too much and I can only maintain that speed. There aren't too many tracks fast enough to require a good 5th ratio, I only know a couple here.
Had I known that, I'd have gone for the .80 final ratio version.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/27/10 04:07 PM
Quote:
All you need to install ours is Beer and band aids.
Good luck Jamie!!
You forgot the 
Posted By: JamiePasson
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/27/10 05:04 PM
I can tell you that there is ZERO chance of fitting a 6 speed in one of these cars that can handle any kind of power without cutting the car up significantly more than the tremec kits require. Therefore, we are not into cutting, so this isn't an option for us.
As far as conversions. We can provide these parts as well. You have to compare apples to apples. You are talking about picking the phone up and ordering all the parts needed. There is an obvious convenience there. The other option is to scour the swap meets and boneyards (which are pretty well picked out by now) for the parts. Then make the necessary repairs to them and use them. Not everyone is up to this though.
The reverse harness will not be affected. we are using the same switch that the A-833 uses. Although it is in a different position, the factory harness is long enough.
As far as power handling ability. I am treading lightly here. I am not going to make outlandish claims. There are other units out there that have claimed over 1000 ft/lbs of torque. I am not here to bullsheet anyone. That just ain't gonna happen. The designs of those units and real world situations will not allow it. So, I will be more vocal on this once I am more comfortable. By all calculations we have at this point. It will be plenty stronger than a stock 18 spline A-833.
Thanks,
Jamie
Posted By: MadMatt
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/27/10 05:17 PM
Jamie,
Thanks for the continuing updates, but you still haven't told us A-body guys for certain whether there will be a transmission for our application, i.e. 1970 Dart. Come on, the suspense is killing me!
Posted By: JamiePasson
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/27/10 06:15 PM
Matt,
Rest assured, There will be an A Body unit just for you guys.
In fact, this is the first one to manufacturing. And everyone says A Bodies don't get any respect.
Jamie
Quote:
At this point, .70:1 is final drive. I don't really want to comment on a weight estimate yet.
Just curious why .70? Seems like quite a deep drop to me.
I think .75 would be perfect.
I mean, with .75, you still have a 2.87 gearing w/a 4.10 rear end. Plenty high enuff if you ask me.
I don't think you'll get better efficiency and gas mileage w/RPMS less than 1500 RPMs cruise on the freeway.
Posted By: JamiePasson
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/27/10 08:15 PM
Ragtop,
This is where the numbers worked out to have virtually the same tailshaft rpm change between gears. I have had plenty of people balk at .75. We figure .70 is good overall.
Jamie
Posted By: MadMatt
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/27/10 08:39 PM
Quote:
Matt,
Rest assured, There will be an A Body unit just for you guys. In fact, this is the first one to manufacturing. And everyone says A Bodies don't get any respect.
Jamie
THANK YOU!! 
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/28/10 03:05 AM
Quote:
Don't forget to mention, do you really want your driveshaft spinning at 8000+ rpm? Numerically lower gear rear end with a numerically higher low gear in the trans and a good overdrive keep the driveshaft spinning at something resembling a sane speed and still have a good launch.
I had to read that twice but
Posted By: patrick
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/28/10 02:47 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Don't forget to mention, do you really want your driveshaft spinning at 8000+ rpm? Numerically lower gear rear end with a numerically higher low gear in the trans and a good overdrive keep the driveshaft spinning at something resembling a sane speed and still have a good launch.
I had to read that twice but
that's what I like about the Richmond 5 speeed approach-- real deep first, and 1:1 5th, couple it with a 2.76 or 2.45 rear, you get a stronger ring gear, coupled with a low driveshaft speed.
want to know why the crown vic police interceptors are electronically limited to under 130 MPH? driveshaft speed.
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/28/10 02:52 PM
Another benefit of running 1:1 in fifth is that the shafts are all locked together (no gear mesh is in use) so gear wear is reduced and spin losses are minimized.
The flip side of getting a deeper first gear is that one of the gears has to get smaller (reducing torque capacity) or the gearbox has to get bigger to maintain gear sizes.
It's all a tradeoff.
Posted By: patrick
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/28/10 02:59 PM
Quote:
Ragtop,
This is where the numbers worked out to have virtually the same tailshaft rpm change between gears. I have had plenty of people balk at .75. We figure .70 is good overall.
Jamie
.75 isn't quite enough OD...IMHO...~.7 is about the best compromise. look at some of the more typical auto and manual OD's out there, they're all in that range (A500/518--.69, A833OD--.73, 700R4/4L60E--.73, etc)...
4.10's with a .7 is an effective 2.87 rear gear, .75 it's 308's....
so, with a 28" tall tire, 75mph (typical freeway speed in MI) would be 3700 RPM in 1:1, 2900 with a gear vendor's .78, 2800 with .75, 2600 with a .7, or 2400 with a TKO's .64....
for this combo, personally I like the .7 or .64....if it's still cranking along at near 3000 RPM at 75mph, like it would with a gear vendors or a .75, it doesn't seem worth it.
now, if the gears had been designed such that you had say, a 3.3 first, then .75 would be a nice OD to couple with a 3.55, and still have the first gear multiplication of a 4.10 with a 2.85 first, but a reduction in driveshaft speed....
Posted By: Bladeruner69
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/29/10 02:18 AM
Sounds like it is just a matter of when they will be available. I will be waiting.
I just hope it's not vaporware like the repop '71 'Cuda grille.
And...repop rear e-body door panels.
Not to derail the topic of Jamie's excellent 5 speed trans thread but....
Quote:
I just hope it's not vaporware like the repop '71 'Cuda grille.
In fairness to Mike he was simply posting in an effort to do a feasability study on the 71 Cuda grilles by getting a feel for demand and feedback from potential customers, I don't recall him making any delivery promises or saying he had any plans to go into production, did I miss something?
Carry on..
Posted By: JamiePasson
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/29/10 01:21 PM
Scott,
Not to derail the thread, but you did a good job derailing the thread!
I am just teasing you.
I know what is involved with making stuff as I am sure that many others out there know as well. Making driveline stuff is even more difficult than trim pieces that just need to sit there and look pretty. I am not taking away from those pieces by any means. I certainly have no intention of this item being vaporware. We have a tremendous investment thusfar on this project. I plan on seeing it throught.
Jamie
Posted By: LS-300
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/29/10 02:32 PM
Jammie keep up the good work. I currently have what I call a long term project. It's a 68 Barracuda notch and I got it without an engine or tranny. It's set-up for a manual. That being said the long term is getting all the body work done, interior redone and getting a 5.7l Hemi and a 5sp to power it. I'm so glad someone decided to make one that doesn't require major modifications to the underside of the car. This is one reason I have only been looking at the 5sp set-ups. I'm glad you are taking you time designing this as we know what happens when new items are rushed to market.
Thanks,
Quote:
Not to derail the topic of Jamie's excellent 5 speed trans thread but....
Quote:
I just hope it's not vaporware like the repop '71 'Cuda grille.
In fairness to Mike he was simply posting in an effort to do a feasability study on the 71 Cuda grilles by getting a feel for demand and feedback from potential customers, I don't recall him making any delivery promises or saying he had any plans to go into production, did I miss something?
Carry on..
Mike's initial post for feelers for this grille was:
Wed Feb 04 2009
And so it takes 1.5 years to finally say...NOPE; NOT DOING IT!?!?!?
C'mon!
I sure hope Passon makes this trans, but if I recall, it's supposed to be available now, but now it's going to be another year:
"I am hoping for Spring of 2010 for release. As for price, I am not saying anything just yet, but I can say it will be fair. No greediness here. "
Once bitten, twice shy. Ya know what I mean?
Posted By: LAR_414
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/29/10 05:05 PM
Jamie,
What are you going to call this trans? IS it going to be "Passon 5 speed" or something like "A-833+1" or something else? I'm sure you thought about this!
I run an E body trans in my A body. I made a custom mount for my Hurst Super Shifter 3 that kinda puts the shifter near the stock A body location (about an inch rear of it), and about 2 inches HIGHER. I made my own custom shift rods and I have my shifter right where I want it.
Question is: Will this be possible with your 5 speed. Will I be able to put the shifter where I want it and make my own shift rods? What Shifter will be able to be used? Reverse Lockout like a Hurst Super Shifter 3?
Larry
Posted By: JamiePasson
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/29/10 07:48 PM
Jeeze Ragtop,
You must have been digging through the archives. I guess I look at it this way. I would rather be running behind than just half ass it and get it out there and deal with the problems as they arise. I don't think that is very smart. So, I apologize that I didn't make the Spring 2010 release date. We have been running into a ton of supply problems for hardware items. It seems like no one wants to make anything in this country anymore. So, when a vendor tells you it will be 4 weeks for a part and it ends up being 10 weeks, there isn't much we can do. Trust me, we are doing our very best here.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/29/10 07:53 PM
Quote:
Jeeze Ragtop,
You must have been digging through the archives. I guess I look at it this way. I would rather be running behind than just half ass it and get it out there and deal with the problems as they arise. I don't think that is very smart. So, I apologize that I didn't make the Spring 2010 release date. We have been running into a ton of supply problems for hardware items. It seems like no one wants to make anything in this country anymore. So, when a vendor tells you it will be 4 weeks for a part and it ends up being 10 weeks, there isn't much we can do. Trust me, we are doing our very best here.
Jamie, you can't please everyone so don't even try .
I didn't say it was vaporware that you're peddling; I said I HOPE it it's not vaporware.
I'm not in a big rush for parts to complete my project, and I also understand manufacturing a new product takes time, but at the same time, I want to be assured IT WILL BE PRODUCED!
Heck, the Boeing 787 is 3 years late (thanks to ton of outsourcing; good job Mullaly!), but we know it will be built.
Posted By: JamiePasson
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/29/10 08:37 PM
Ragtop, I know you didn't say that.
I can tell you that the only way it won't be produced is if there is a major tragedy. And if that be the case, I have much more important stuff to worry about. Like I said, I am really in too deep to not make it.
Posted By: copchaser
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/30/10 04:16 AM
(It seems like no one wants to make anything in this country anymore. So, when a vendor tells you it will be 4 weeks for a part and it ends up being 10 weeks, there isn't much we can do. Trust me, we are doing our very best) Jamie, your tring to hard. have you considered importing a couple of Chinese or Korean guys and setting them up in the back room. You'll get the best of both worlds, high quality parts made by our Asian friends right here in the good old USA.
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/30/10 01:14 PM
One thing that I've seen happening:
The economy slowed down, so you'd think there would be mfg capacity for those with $$ to purchase stuff. However, if any of your vendors go out of business, you have to look elsewhere - and 'elsewhere' has already downsized their operations to meet the decreased demand they had, so you get production delays.
Posted By: JamiePasson
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 09/30/10 01:51 PM
Yeah,
I know. I live it every day! It definitely gets frustrating though. Because the end user doesn't really care the reason that there is a delay. They just look at it as there is a delay, so there must be problems.
Posted By: LAR_414
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 10/01/10 02:11 PM
Jamie,
To keep it on subject,...look over my response above. I actually have real questions,...not O/T stuff.
Question is: Will this be possible with your 5 speed. Will I be able to put the shifter where I want it and make my own shift rods? What Shifter will be able to be used? Reverse Lockout like a Hurst Super Shifter 3?
Thanks Larry
Posted By: JamiePasson
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 10/01/10 02:23 PM
Larry,
I am not sure what the "Official" name is going to be yet.
I cannot answer your shifter question totally just yet. This is because I am not sure of what offsets you mechanism has on the arms coming out the bottom. My initial guess is the Super Shifter 3 will not work because it is a 4 speed shifter, not a 5 speed shifter. You will need to make rods of course though if you are moving stuff around. Let me know if I missed anything.
Jamie
Posted By: LAR_414
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 10/01/10 04:46 PM
Thanks Jamie. Just wanted to know if different 5 speed shifters will fit it and work, if custom rods are made. Sounds like the mounting points will be OEM, so that should work fine.
Thanks,
Larry
Posted By: MadMatt
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 10/04/10 05:18 PM
Quote:
The shifter is actually part of the trans. It will be available in press in or bolt on type so that you can use your existing factory 4 speed handle if you desire.
Jamie, I don't mean to beat the shifter thing to death, but I have one more question. As I've mentioned, I'm gathering the parts to do an auto to stick conversion on my 1970 Dart. Will I need the factory 4-speed floor hump with your new trans? Or would the shifter design allow installation in the existing tunnel?
Thanks,
Matt
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 10/04/10 06:10 PM
Seeing as his transmission is designed as a drop in replacement for an 833, you can bet on the floor hump being needed.
Posted By: JamiePasson
Re: Passon 5 Speed - 10/04/10 06:53 PM
Daytona is right. You will need a 4 speed hump.
Jamie
