I need a memory refresh, 727 part throttle kickdown?

I've been daydreaming about the engine/trans combo I'd like to stick into my Coronet.

I seem to recall that later 727 transmissions had a part throttle kickdown vs. the all or nothing kick down my 69 and 70 cars have.

I know the newer transmissions use a kickdown cable instead of the rod linkage. Is the valve body different too?

Any other differences and when did part throttle kick down feature come into play? Can the newer parts be retrofitted into an older trans?

Or am I just nuts, no wait, don't answer that, I already know the answer

when I pickedup my car, it had a manual valve body in it - kickdown setup gone - has a 3500 stall converter in it (pretty sure) and stamped on bellhousing is TF3 - I eventually want to go back to stock put it in D and go - I've been told that 71 was the 1st year for the part throttle kickdown ( I think) - so the MVB would haveto be removed, and a part throttle KD put in, along with the correct linkage rod - I'm pretty sure on the 71 as first year for PTKD-but I may be wrong - been meaning to ask this very question- maybe we canget a definate - Joe

part throttle kickdown

reading this link I get the feeling that the hyper shifter is an after market purchase.
The OE is looking for info on the stock part throttle kick down. Not sure when it started but I know early 70s. I think 73 but not sure.

(quote)I know the newer transmissions use a kickdown cable instead of the rod linkage.

Cables were used on 65 and older trannies, just use your regular kick down linkage rod, but know that they are specific to 2 or 4 bbl carbs. the later part throttle K/D can be retro fitted into early transmissions, very easily.

yes 71 on the first PTK

later on PTK with limeter built into it keeps it from kick down when over 40 mph

some early 904 ptk valves can be swaped to the 70 back non PTK vb for a PTK function

I just removed the BB 727 VB with PTK and went forward shift,full manual,low band apply VB from CRT

just to drop the linkage headaches on swaping a 440 into my 88 truck

'71 was the first year for PTK in the V8 but it goes back to '67 on the 904 when used on the /6.

The early 904 version had no limit valve but the '71 and later V8 has the limit valve.

A guy just freshened up the trans for my A-100.
One of the things he did was add the part throttle kickdown. It was a separate chunk that bolted on to the valve body. He was swapping a bunch of stuff around, so I don't have the exact info, but I believe it's fully covered in the HP Books Torqueflite A-727 Book. See pg. 113 for a figure.

Thanks for the info, I'll look into the lik and the 727 book.

I have a mid 70s motorhome trans in the shop, I'm hoping it has the PTK parts I need.

Somebody is repopping the PTKD for the early VB. I got one from an old trans guy one time. Told him what I was looking for and he made about 3 steps and had one on the shelf that he had taken out about 25 years before! Told me I could have it since I was the only person who ever knew what it was. That and noody had asked about one since he layed it up there.

I think it is A & A. IIRC it looks different than the OEM part but works the same.

What does the limiter valve in the 71 up trans do versus the early slant six piece w/o it?

The limit valve limits the road speed (about 40 mph) at which PTK can occur, the earlier setup without the valve can be a real PITA with low numeric axle ratios...my '57 NY with 2.94 gears will still PTK at over 60 mph.

hi john,old post but i see you modified your 57 new Yorker with ptk. can ptk be added to a 1965 Chrysler 300L valve body ? did you drill/modify your original valve body or use a later 68 valve body? thanks, ronnie

The pre-'67 valve body lacks the passage that feeds throttle pressure to the PTK module.

To convert a '62-'65 TF to PTK you need to use a valve body casting from a '67-'68, the later ones won't work because they lack provisions for the pump check valves. With the correct VB casting and the PTK module in hand all you need to do is make a bushing to reduce the diameter of the hole the rooster comb fits in.

The throttle pressure passage and the screw that needs to be changed.

Great info there John!

I took a 64 727 trans apart recently and I can see its got a 'modded' 67 VB in there?
The owner says it takes ages to get converter to 'fill and engage' so I'm wondering if this is a wrong set-up?
I am going to find a pre 727 65 VB and se what the differences are...


I'm guessing its something to do with rear pump oil-feed maybe or the missing channel...

Modded how? The PTK mod shouldn't affect converter fill if the shifter is in Neutral. Is it slow to engage both forward and reverse?

how can a 67 VB work in a cable shift 64 transmission ?

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this.

The trans was in a 65 Fury and was always slow in engagement once drive or reverse was selected.
I now have the trans here at home and can see the valve body says 67 on the lower casting plate.
I will remove it today and see how the mod was done to get it to work in a 64 trans?

be back laters lol.
John

that will be interesting for sure.
please post pics if at all possible.
T.I.A.

Oleham2... on a memory REFRESH topic ?

From a who proclaims he CRS ?

gotta get it where ya can DoC !

Vitamin D helps !

i eat those all the time.
reminds me of "Vitamin Flintheart" in the old Dick Tracey comics................

Flintstone GUMMY BEARS?

What’s the BESTest?

Hi Mopartians,

Nothing exciting I'm afraid on the 64 VB!
The lower plate is cast as 67, but is deffo an early VB as it has the strange poppet valve thingy-majigy...
The top valve plate is 65 out of a 65 Fury, so someone has been playing 'in the past'?
Anyways the small spring that goes in the POPPET thingy was bust.
What does the POPPET thingy do?
Not seen it on later VB's from 67 onwards.

Thanx in advance for any info.

Jon

ps no PTK (as the owner thought) as there are no feed tubes as per John's wonderful info pics, previous page.

any pictures ?

The "poppet thingy" is probably the front pump check valve circled in red in the pic below, these were only used '62-'65 so I suspect the 67 is actually 61. Again, a pic would help.

The check valve prevents the front pump pressure from bleeding into the rear pump when the rear pump isn't producing pressure (car isn't moving). The rear pump check valve is identical but isn't visible with the VB fully assembled...it sits in the cavity shown in my first pic above.

Nice looking Vb there John!

Many thanx for the reply John, and yes it was 'deffo' a 67 lower 'channel' plate, so I rubbed off the 7 in disgust as it doesn't exist lol...

They stopped making/using them in 66 so why would they cast a 67 lower plate!!!

The poppet valve (as I call it) the one I am speaking about is UNDER the manual valve.(fat wobbly hemi-orange circle)

Obviously not present in 67 upwards VB's and WHAT does it do???
The tiny spring was broken inside the 'P' valve, it also has a rubber ring seal (under a small plate with two screws) and it was able to move up and down freely, oh dear!


( I replaced the broken spring with one I had spare from a PTK, I had upgraded that one before with the black B&M spring in a later Vb)
Clear as mud...

OK, the valve you have circled is the Reverse blocker, it prevents the manual valve from being shifted into Reverse when the car is moving forward above 20 mph. The spring you used as a replacement will probably change the mph a little...just don't push the R button when rolling forward.

A '67 transfer plate won't have the part circled in black below, this area of the plate is the rear pump suction; if the plate is actually a '67, some major changes have been done to that VB. Again, pics............

H John, you are a star!

Someone who knows real clever transmission stuff.

I see from the VB pic that it has a 'fat shaft' manual valve, is that an aftermarket item?

Not a push-button car its a floor shift 65 Fury, with 402 cubes of POLY POWER lol.


The lower channel plate looks much newer than the rest of the valve body.
I would guess that Mother Mother carried on casting that 'larger' style plate into early 67, for spares?
At some time it must of been changed and it got me confused.

Definitely a pre 66 VB and no real dramas lol.

Whilst we are on the VB saga, I often get asked about modded VB's and their downfalls.
I can tell if I take one apart,,, if it has B&M and/or transgo mods and obviously a new 'separator plate'.

But have no idea if its forward or reverse pattern?

Can a stock VB changed 'to the reverse pattern' as a DIY mod, or is it much more complex than that?

Any help greatly apppreciated John.

Best wishes from Limey John

The VB pictured is for pushbuttons, it has a different manual valve and rooster comb than console/column VB's.

Thank you John, for your time to give out free info.

I have a 68 VB that has a B&M separator plate and a small blocker rod behind the top shuttle valve, instead of a spring?
Any ideas why that is a what it does please?

Stay safe and keep well from Limey John

The blocker rod is typical of the B&M "Auto-Manual" VB's and most "plate kits". The purpose of the shuttle valve is to soften the lift-foot 2-3 upshift and the 3-2 kick down shift. Blocking the valve makes both shifts more firm.

Many thanks John, you are a star!

I just replied to another john’s thread about the blocker rod question lol...

The B&M and transgo kits both require the drilling of the separator wall next to the ‘removed’ ball.
Neither kit actually says why?

And the change down ‘at any speed’ option, always makes me laugh!
Sounds like a crazy upgrade...

Limey John