Front-end rebuild

Posted By: MarPar

Front-end rebuild - 05/17/10 08:27 PM

Hi Guys!! I'm new to MoParts, and have been lurking around for a couple of days...HUGE forum!!

Good stuff!!!

Anyway, i was wondering what would be a good, complete front suspension rebuild kit for a 68 GTX. Not that money is no object, but i would be willing to pay for top-quality stuff! I've seen A LOT of different companies offering a bunch of different packages (poly graphite, poly urethane) I want to change everything except the CA's and bushings (that will come later with disk brakes and drop-spindles). Torsion bars and bushings, sway bar mounts, ball joints and all the bushings i can... any comments are appreciated

-Mar

Posted By: rapom

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/17/10 08:45 PM

Espo is what I use and they are your cheapest source that carries only USA sourced parts that I know of.

Mancini Racing is also a good source. They only carry MOOG parts.

Posted By: boydsdodge

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/17/10 09:00 PM

Stay away from urethane lower control arm bushings on the street.

Posted By: MarPar

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/17/10 09:05 PM

Any specific reason? it is a street car, with a couple flogs at the track a year...thanks

Posted By: Mopar Grandpa

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/17/10 10:48 PM

Stay with the original replacement type rubber. I put polyurethane in my Road Runner and it squeaked like crazy and rode like a log wagon. Removed it all and went back to the rubber.

Posted By: satgtx

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/18/10 05:10 PM

ESPO great folks to work with.

Posted By: JF_Moparts

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/18/10 05:17 PM

I've always been a fan of PST's rebuild kits. I've used three of them on my own cars. I go all Polygraphite, and I havent's experienced much (or any) squeeking, but the ride is solid. You will feel every bump. Then again, you stay straighter in the hard turns.

If you do go poly, I'd recommend the following:

Torsion bars of at least 170 lbs/in. (Stock is about 90-110)
Front sway bar - 1 1/8 or larger.
Welded frame connectors.
Good shocks.

Of course, the list goes on and on from there...

Jim

Posted By: MarPar

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/18/10 06:13 PM

Quote:

I've always been a fan of PST's rebuild kits. I've used three of them on my own cars. I go all Polygraphite, and I havent's experienced much (or any) squeeking, but the ride is solid. You will feel every bump. Then again, you stay straighter in the hard turns.

If you do go poly, I'd recommend the following:

Torsion bars of at least 170 lbs/in. (Stock is about 90-110)
Front sway bar - 1 1/8 or larger.
Welded frame connectors.
Good shocks.

Of course, the list goes on and on from there...

Jim

Thanks Jim! Right now I have a stock sway bar and .096? (stock HD's) Torsion bars. I really don't want to cut or weld anything on her, i want more of a stockish setup that's a little tighter on turns. I know she's not going to handle like she's on rails, but just a little upgrade is what i'm looking for.

I'm going to get new shocks and leaf springs also, any thoughts on them? Re: polygraphite, how solid of a ride are talking about?? like a filling rattling ride??

Thanks -Mar

Posted By: HealthServices

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/18/10 06:18 PM

Think about buying and replacing the dust boots with poly as the rubber ones everyone has been making for dust boots are crapola, or will be in a very short time. I think they make black ones so they won't attract attention.

Posted By: JF_Moparts

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/18/10 11:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I've always been a fan of PST's rebuild kits. I've used three of them on my own cars. I go all Polygraphite, and I havent's experienced much (or any) squeeking, but the ride is solid. You will feel every bump. Then again, you stay straighter in the hard turns.

If you do go poly, I'd recommend the following:

Torsion bars of at least 170 lbs/in. (Stock is about 90-110)
Front sway bar - 1 1/8 or larger.
Welded frame connectors.
Good shocks.

Of course, the list goes on and on from there...

Jim

Thanks Jim! Right now I have a stock sway bar and .096? (stock HD's) Torsion bars. I really don't want to cut or weld anything on her, i want more of a stockish setup that's a little tighter on turns. I know she's not going to handle like she's on rails, but just a little upgrade is what i'm looking for. I'm going to get new shocks and leaf springs also, any thoughts on them? Re: polygraphite, how solid of a ride are talking about?? like a filling rattling ride??

Thanks -Mar

I can't comment on the harshness of the ride with just the poly bushings, because when I've rebuilt my front suspensions, I also replaced the torsion bars and shocks with much firmer components. When I hit a pothole in my Sebring, I feel it! (I also have 40 profile tires, 205 lbs/inch torsion bars, and a slightly lowered front)

I did replace the rear suspension on my 71 Sebring and went with poly. That squeeked for the first year but since then has been quiet. I also got rid of the stock leaves and installed the Hemi 6 / 5+2 leaves. They're about 160 lbs/inch, and they work well with a rebuilt front.

If you want it mostly stock, I'd probably stick with rubber bushings and upgrade the anti-sway bar. I think the amount of lean in the older stock cars was their big handling downfall.

Jim

ps - I'm not an engineer, I've just read a bunch of books on automotive suspension design. I think upgrading a sway bar without upgrading the rest of the front is ok, but you might want to confirm that with an engineer.

Posted By: MarPar

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/20/10 03:49 PM

So after doin some research, and thanks to the fine gentlemen who responded on this thread, i've come up with my parts list...see what y'all think.

QA1 shocks
XHD rear leafs

.10 T-bars

and this front-end kit...
http://www.billrolikenterprises.com/proddetail.asp?prod=205

couple questions though...

should i go with the 11/16" tie rod ends with that package? it says heavy-duty, and everything else is heavy-duty on the car..

Am I missing anything??

All comments are much appreciated!!!
Thanks
-Mar

Posted By: JF_Moparts

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/20/10 05:36 PM

Do you mean 1.10" torsion bars? If so, those seem kinda harsh. What's that, like 270 lbs/inch?

I run 205 lbs/inch with a small block and it's pretty firm.

Jim

Posted By: 68HemiB

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/20/10 07:16 PM

Quote:

.10 T-bars

I too am unclear on the size of T-bars you've selected.

As for the bigger TRE, opinions vary about whether the bigger ones provide sufficient benefit for the added cost/weight. Personally, I am in favor of them.

As for missing anything, how are your existing sway bar frame bushings and end links?

Posted By: MarPar

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/20/10 07:16 PM

I can't remember where i saw it, but it thought i saw 180 lbs/inch for a those T-bars. i have .096 now, i wanted to go one step-up. I thought it was .10?? not sure tho!!!

Posted By: 68HemiB

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/20/10 07:17 PM

Quote:

I can't remember where i saw it, but it thought i saw 180 lbs/inch for a those T-bars. i have .096 now, i wanted to go one step-up. I thought it was .10?? not sure tho!!!

You've got the decimal in the wrong place.

.96"

1.0"

It's the diameter of the bar.

Posted By: mojavered

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/20/10 07:19 PM

You probably mean 1.0".

Posted By: MarPar

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/20/10 07:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

.10 T-bars

I too am unclear on the size of T-bars you've selected.

As for the bigger TRE, opinions vary about whether the bigger ones provide sufficient benefit for the added cost/weight. Personally, I am in favor of them.

As for missing anything, how are your existing sway bar frame bushings and end links?

Ah yes!! i knew i forgot something!!

the sway bar bushings!! doesn't look like they are included in that set!! nor are the end links

guess i'll keep looking!!

Posted By: MarPar

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/20/10 07:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I can't remember where i saw it, but it thought i saw 180 lbs/inch for a those T-bars. i have .096 now, i wanted to go one step-up. I thought it was .10?? not sure tho!!!

You've got the decimal in the wrong place.

.96"

1.0"

It's the diameter of the bar.

Ah! ok thanks for the correction!

so yes, 1" T-bars is what i'm thinking...

Posted By: MarPar

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/20/10 07:29 PM

How bout this kit?? it's got pretty much everything i want...except that it's poly and not rubber bushings i know it's pretty far away from the stock set i was looking at, but it looks like it would be pretty bad-ass...

http://www.justsuspension.com/the-works-kit-for-mopar.html

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/20/10 07:44 PM

Quote:

Do you mean 1.10" torsion bars? If so, those seem kinda harsh. What's that, like 270 lbs/inch?

...

I think I'm going to try these in the shorter A-body length T-bars (stiffer) and see what happens. The worst I could do is crack the car in half.

Attached picture 5993661-Tbar1_14Used1Md.JPG

Posted By: JF_Moparts

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/20/10 07:49 PM

Quote:

How bout this kit?? it's got pretty much everything i want...except that it's poly and not rubber bushings i know it's pretty far away from the stock set i was looking at, but it looks like it would be pretty bad-ass...

http://www.justsuspension.com/the-works-kit-for-mopar.html

Wow, that's a lot! I thought you only wanted a little upgrade.

If you're willing to replace everything like that, I'd piece it together differently:

- A front end bushing rebuild kit from PST or Just Suspension

- 1.00" torsion bars

- Geometry corrected upper arms from Hotchkis

- Hotchkis tie rod end kit

- Upgrade to a 1 1/8" or 1 1/4" front anti-sway bar

- Upgrade to the 73' & up disk brakes, ala the Rick Ehrenberg disk brake swap. (You need 73-74 E or A body disk brake spindles, which can be a challenge to find. Other parts aren't too hard to find like calipers, master cylinder, etc) The exact article is here:
http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/disc-main.html

- Decent shocks (talk to Hotchkis) or go with KYB to save $

- Hemi rear springs

- A 7/8" rear anti-sway bar

If you want fast ratio steering:

- A firm feel steering box (at least level 2 or 3)

- Fast ratio pitman and idler arms

Some of the above will be expensive (Hotchkis) and others will be cheap (disk brake swap). The Just Susp. works kit is very good, but Hotchkis has some better worthwhile stuff.

Jim

Posted By: JF_Moparts

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/20/10 07:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Do you mean 1.10" torsion bars? If so, those seem kinda harsh. What's that, like 270 lbs/inch?

...

I think I'm going to try these in the shorter A-body length T-bars (stiffer) and see what happens. The worst I could do is crack the car in half.

Wow - those are about 340 lbs/inch, by my reckoning!

Jim

Posted By: 68HemiB

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/20/10 08:36 PM

Quote:

I think I'm going to try these in the shorter A-body length T-bars (stiffer) and see what happens. The worst I could do is crack the car in half.

Steve, you need to think outside the box, and jump TWO squares ahead. Set it to your desired ride height...

...then weld the LCA to the K member.

None of that pesky suspension travel to fuss with!

Posted By: 68HemiB

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/20/10 08:43 PM

Quote:

How bout this kit?? it's got pretty much everything i want...except that it's poly and not rubber bushings i know it's pretty far away from the stock set i was looking at, but it looks like it would be pretty bad-ass...

There is both a poly and a rubber bushing camp around here. I am firmly in the latter camp.

You don't need to get a "kit" with everything. I would consider staying with the first kit you picked, and go get some sway bar stuff elsewhere.

It's okay to do it partially or completely a la carte. Really.

Posted By: OzHemi

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/20/10 08:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I think I'm going to try these in the shorter A-body length T-bars (stiffer) and see what happens. The worst I could do is crack the car in half.

Steve, you need to think outside the box, and jump TWO squares ahead. Set it to your desired ride height...

...then weld the LCA to the K member.

None of that pesky suspension travel to fuss with!

And go with some 25 series tires to truely get the "road feel"

Posted By: MarPar

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/21/10 05:16 PM

Ok, so that kit was a little overboard..LOL

I think i will stick the first kit from Bill Rolik with some Spicer MADE IN THE USA parts, and just get the sway bar and mounts, shock and leafs elsewhere.

Piecemealing it will take a little more work, but i do think i'll be happier with the results!!!

Thanks gents for all your comments and insight!! it is very much appreciated!!!

Posted By: Sixpak

Re: Front-end rebuild - 05/21/10 05:48 PM

You can get ALL the bushings, ball joints, tie rods. strut rod, etc. from Rock Auto, probably cheaper than a pre-assembled kit. And you can get Moog there as well.
The best place that poly has in your suspension is for the sway bar end link and shaft bushings, the front leaf spring eye bushings and the rear leaf spring shackle bushing. Poly control arm bushings are more of a pain than they are worth. I'd also go with Moog offset upper control arm bushings to get more positive caster when you get it aligned. No other upper control arm bushing I know of, poly or otherwise, are offset like the Moog bushings.