Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars

Posted By: Runner2go

Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/16/10 10:49 PM

So if you were going to have a panel or 2 repainted on your new car... say new Challenger/Charger/300...
What would be the best brand to go with?
And what paint brand would you avoid like the plague?

I have a feeling I'm going to be having some paint work done soon

and want to avoid paints that fade or turn to $#^! in 2 years.
That's what happened to the last car I had repaired (New Yorker).
It looked great when it came out of the Cadi dealers paint shop... no complaints on the work itself.
However 2 years later the paint itself just faded away... while all the original 15 yr old paint still looks good.

So when I ask what "brand" of paint they are going to use, what is the answer I want to hear?

base/clear Metallic Black 09 300c.

Thanks...

Posted By: fury4speed

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/16/10 11:00 PM

As long as you use a name brand like PPG or BASF or for Black DuPont is good , the fading depends on the "Clearcoat" many shops use a cheaper clear , if you use PPG or whatever brand keep it all the same so it will covered under warranty (most Paint companies do that now) if you are going to color sand make sure the painter puts on enough clear because sanding and polishing removes a bit of the top coat / clearcoat , I would be more worried about matching the original "Orange Peel" look that most Cars have today , you should not have a problem , if it were a white pearl or a metallic that is a litle harder to perform a good match.

Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/17/10 07:33 AM

Who here has used Sikkens single stage? I sprayed a friends hood today. What a wierd setup they use. Single stage BASE, mixed with equal parts CONVERTER, then mix well. THEN add 25 % reducer and 35% catalyst. What the heck, man? PPG makes it easy. Omni too. Don't
these guys check out what the other guys are doing?

Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/17/10 11:59 AM

You need to be more concerned about who will be doing the paint work and how reputable they are,not what paint brand they use, because most reputable shops that care about their reputation do quality work and use quality products on top of that,most decent shops have "lifetime warranty" on all repairs . As long as they don't spray ebay junk or Omni and Nason you should be good

Posted By: Runner2go

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/17/10 02:07 PM

Quote:

You need to be more concerned about who will be doing the paint work and how reputable they are,not what paint brand they use, because most reputable shops that care about their reputation do quality work and use quality products on top of that,most decent shops have "lifetime warranty" on all repairs . As long as they don't spray ebay junk or Omni and Nason you should be good

I will ask if they give the paint a lifetime warranty... that should help insure they use something good
The last time I got stuck with who Nationwide sent me too.
Which happened to be the local Cadi dealer... so I figured they should be OK

And Like I said above the work they did was more then I expected (especially on the 88 subaru wagon)
The "removed" not taped... all the trim... sprayed it... then put everything back.
Both cars looked great... for a few years, then the paint just started to fade/dull out.
And since they were both blended into the original factory painted sides...
They went from the top looking better than the sides... to the top looking MUCH worse than the sides.

Contrast that with the Alero I have now... It was my Aunts & only has 14k on it (4K I put on the last 6months)
That cars paint looks perfect all around, & I just found out yesterday that she hit something 4 yrs ago.
they put on a new hood, fender and bumper... and it still looks good 4 years later.
I did notice the bumper looked like it had been redone, but would not have guessed the other 2 panels.
So obviously they used better paint than the Cadi dealer did.

That's why I'm asking... I just want to be able to ask what brand paint they use and know if it's any good.
Particularly the clear coats...
I've got 3 damaged cars... with 100's of dents each... (not sure they can use PDR on them all)
So it looks like there is some paint in there futures. (Insurance paid Paint... which is what worries me)

Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/17/10 02:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You need to be more concerned about who will be doing the paint work and how reputable they are,not what paint brand they use, because most reputable shops that care about their reputation do quality work and use quality products on top of that,most decent shops have "lifetime warranty" on all repairs . As long as they don't spray ebay junk or Omni and Nason you should be good

I will ask if they give the paint a lifetime warranty... that should help insure they use something good
The last time I got stuck with who Nationwide sent me too.
Which happened to be the local Cadi dealer... so I figured they should be OK

And Like I said above the work they did was more then I expected (especially on the 88 subaru wagon)
The "removed" not taped... all the trim... sprayed it... then put everything back.
Both cars looked great... for a few years, then the paint just started to fade/dull out.
And since they were both blended into the original factory painted sides...
They went from the top looking better than the sides... to the top looking MUCH worse than the sides.

Contrast that with the Alero I have now... It was my Aunts & only has 14k on it (4K I put on the last 6months)
That cars paint looks perfect all around, & I just found out yesterday that she hit something 4 yrs ago.
they put on a new hood, fender and bumper... and it still looks good 4 years later.
I did notice the bumper looked like it had been redone, but would not have guessed the other 2 panels.
So obviously they used better paint than the Cadi dealer did.

That's why I'm asking... I just want to be able to ask what brand paint they use and know if it's any good.
Particularly the clear coats...
I've got 3 damaged cars... with 100's of dents each... (not sure they can use PDR on them all)
So it looks like there is some paint in there futures. (Insurance paid Paint... which is what worries me)

if you have insurance company paying for the paint work, they have the lifetime warranty,even if the shop doesn't, bigger insurance always have lifetime warranty on all insurance claims repairs,

In you situation, I'd do more research about shops in your area ,do not trust big dealership body shops, they are the ones who do shoddy repairs,I've seen alot of hack jobs coming from big franchise dealerships, a friend of mine has Cadillac XLR that got hit on the side,insurance company steered him to take the car to Cadillac dealership,let me just say he took it back more than sever times to fix things and it still looks like sh!!t,besides heavy oranegpeel,that's sagging and looks like it was about to run right before clearcoat tacked,funny gaps between body panels,passenger seat rubs against interior panels and makes noises,door shuts weird, so he just gave up.

shops that use Glasurit,Sikkens,SpiesHecker,Standox would be first on my list, PPG,DuPont,Sherwin Williams,would be second choice.Make sure to ask which clearcoat they use and if it's high-solids, if you don't hear words Nason ,Omni ,Production or 4:1 in their answer, usually it should be OK ,

Posted By: Runner2go

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/17/10 04:03 PM

Quote:

shops that use Glasurit,Sikkens,SpiesHecker,Standox would be first on my list, PPG,DuPont,Sherwin Williams,would be second choice.Make sure to ask which clearcoat they use and if it's high-solids, if you don't hear words Nason ,Omni ,Production or 4:1 in their answer, usually it should be OK ,

Thanks

I have 3 cars that were laid to waste... but I'm really only worried about the wife's car.
It's her baby and the 1st new car we ever bought(likely last) 09 300c

I plan to have the truck done 1st (genie pig), then the 14k mile Alero...
And if they don't dick up either of those, they will get to do the 300c last.

Hopefully I do better here in york (still waiting for the call back)
Years ago I lived near reading PA and the adjuster there would let you deal with any shop you wanted.
Last time I had an issue, I was in Lancaster PA and the Nationwide adjuster there was the biggest azzhole I've ever dealt with.
Even my Agent was getting pissed at him on our 3-way phone call.
Which is why I had them do the beater Subaru too... wasn't planning on it, but it was covered.
SO I made them fix it too(over $2k lol) told the adjuster it was submitted because he was being a dick.

Hoping the adjuster in York PA is more like the guy was in Reading...

Then I'll go shop hunting...
So if anyone knows a Good shop near York PA ... feel free to chime in

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/17/10 04:42 PM

FWIW the Insurance company can not force you to use a particular shop.. They often try but you can bet it's not to benefit you...

Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/17/10 06:42 PM

Quote:

FWIW the Insurance company can not force you to use a particular shop.. They often try but you can bet it's not to benefit you...

and is illegal, if you have solid proof that they are steering you to use their DRP(preferred) shop,they can be in deep doo-doo.Call your state Isurance Commissioner .

I read recently in Body Shop Business magazine Penn. Senator John C.Rafferty Jr is working on S.R. 254 legislation to address the issue,because he was pushed by the insurance co.to use a shop that wasn't of his choice

Posted By: Mr T2U

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/17/10 11:11 PM

Quote:

Both cars looked great... for a few years, then the paint just started to fade/dull out.
And since they were both blended into the original factory painted sides...
They went from the top looking better than the sides... to the top looking MUCH worse than the sides.

)

the reason for why that happened usually isn't poor quality product but they didn't use enough of it.
clear coat needs AT LEAST 2 mils of clear to stay looking good. most shops use only 2 coats of clear. it most clear coats dry to about 1.2 mils per coat. spray 2 coats of clear you get 2.4 mils. you usually sand over .5 mils of clear coat off just denibbing the dirt out of clear coat, when you are done you have less than 2 mils of clear witch will dull out like described above.

Posted By: challengermike

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/18/10 05:48 PM

Whats wrong with omni base clear?Im not saying its the best but i have had no problems with it and it is high solid clear.

Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/19/10 02:48 AM

Quote:

Whats wrong with omni base clear?Im not saying its the best but i have had no problems with it and it is high solid clear.

it's watered down and requires more material for coverage,I've seen more than few cars done in Omni with clear completely coming off the whole car after only couple months

Posted By: Mr T2U

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/19/10 12:18 PM

Quote:

it's watered down and requires more material for coverage,I've seen more than few cars done in Omni with clear completely coming off the whole car after only couple months

i have been a PPG certified painter sense PPG started there certification process, early 80's. i have never seen a PPG product deliminate if the directions are followed correctly.
i have repaired lots of jobs done at other shops where directions weren't followed and PPG has paid to repair.
the only reason for clear to delaminate is intermixing brands, spraying the base coat to dry, spraying the base coat to wet, and improper flash times.

i use omni clear almost every day for the last 15 years and it has never delaminated.

Posted By: bonefish

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/19/10 01:38 PM

i used the complete line of NASON on my cuda 7 years ago and it still looks great,and its red whitch is a tough color to keep in the fl sun.

Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/19/10 01:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

it's watered down and requires more material for coverage,I've seen more than few cars done in Omni with clear completely coming off the whole car after only couple months

i have been a PPG certified painter sense PPG started there certification process, early 80's. i have never seen a PPG product deliminate if the directions are followed correctly.
i have repaired lots of jobs done at other shops where directions weren't followed and PPG has paid to repair.
the only reason for clear to delaminate is intermixing brands, spraying the base coat to dry, spraying the base coat to wet, and improper flash times.

i use omni clear almost every day for the last 15 years and it has never delaminated.

wonder why they recommend using mid-coat adhesion promoter

I've been spraying paint since 89 and have used just about every paint brand and have mixed brands without any issues.I have never seen clearcoat coming off in sheets on anything other than Omni jobs at my brother's shop.My brother might have bent some rules and didn't follow the tech sheets,but prior the use of Omni and after,they didn't have peeling problems and that guy can lay down some slick paint jobs.I'm pretty sure his spraying techniques and style hasn't changed and he has no peeling problems because he quit using Omni real quick after atleast 4 cars that had to be redone

Posted By: MOPARMIKE69

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/19/10 01:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

it's watered down and requires more material for coverage,I've seen more than few cars done in Omni with clear completely coming off the whole car after only couple months

i have been a PPG certified painter sense PPG started there certification process, early 80's. i have never seen a PPG product deliminate if the directions are followed correctly.
i have repaired lots of jobs done at other shops where directions weren't followed and PPG has paid to repair.
the only reason for clear to delaminate is intermixing brands, spraying the base coat to dry, spraying the base coat to wet, and improper flash times.

I use omni clear almost every day for the last 15 years and it has never delaminated.

I agree, I have never seen any PPG paint go bad. I use the top line before I use Omni, but I have used it for years and never had a problem on drivers or show cars.

Posted By: Mr T2U

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/20/10 01:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

it's watered down and requires more material for coverage,I've seen more than few cars done in Omni with clear completely coming off the whole car after only couple months

i have been a PPG certified painter sense PPG started there certification process, early 80's. i have never seen a PPG product deliminate if the directions are followed correctly.
i have repaired lots of jobs done at other shops where directions weren't followed and PPG has paid to repair.
the only reason for clear to delaminate is intermixing brands, spraying the base coat to dry, spraying the base coat to wet, and improper flash times.

i use omni clear almost every day for the last 15 years and it has never delaminated.

wonder why they recommend using mid-coat adhesion promoter

I've been spraying paint since 89 and have used just about every paint brand and have mixed brands without any issues.I have never seen clearcoat coming off in sheets on anything other than Omni jobs at my brother's shop.My brother might have bent some rules and didn't follow the tech sheets,but prior the use of Omni and after,they didn't have peeling problems and that guy can lay down some slick paint jobs.I'm pretty sure his spraying techniques and style hasn't changed and he has no peeling problems because he quit using Omni real quick after atleast 4 cars that had to be redone

whats the product # and P sheet number of mid coat adhesion promoter?
i have been using PPG sense DBU was first hitting the market in 81 or 81. i don't ever remember PPG ever making mid coat adhesion promoter.
the closest thing i remember is bonding clear. but that was supposed to be used before the base coat if i remember correctly.

the closest guess to your problems would be you are using to fast of a reducer for the temps and heat in Florida. if the top flashes off while the bottom of the base is wet that will cause clear coat delaminating.

Posted By: challengermike

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/20/10 04:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Whats wrong with omni base clear?Im not saying its the best but i have had no problems with it and it is high solid clear.

it's watered down and requires more material for coverage,I've seen more than few cars done in Omni with clear completely coming off the whole car after only couple months

Every time i have used it i have had to thin the clear alittle (usually 1 part or 2 per cup)to get it to lay out flat.Im sure there are many ways to screw up a paint job but i dont think its always the paints fault.

Posted By: Mr T2U

Re: Whats the best Paint - for refinish of newer cars - 05/20/10 12:04 PM

i don't want this thread to morph into i am a better painter than you.

just don't blanket knock a quality product that failed when it probably wasn't used properly a few times.

the problems posted about omni being a thinned out product are probably correct on older cars. i don't use omni base coat much so i can't testify to how well it works. also i don't mix my own paint, the owner want it that way. but i have been told when PPG converts some single stage colors to base coat they basicly mix a single stage color with single stage clear and binders. then add 50% base coat clear to the mix to get the base coat formula. basicly giving you 50% less tints per can of paint. this is why it's seems thinned out with no coverage.

i haven't looked at the paint job failures so i don't know exactly what actually happened. but my best guess on what happened is this. because the base coat was thinned out with poor coverage it was probably sprayed on heavy and wet. when this is done the metallic was blotchy with lots of tiger stripes. to correct this color was lightly sprayed on the even out the metallic over the top of wet base coat. when you do this the lightly sprayed color won't bite into the color under it. base coat should always be sprayed on medium wet, never with a dry spray. you should try to avoid spraying it on heavy and wet. spray clear coat on top of the dusted base coat and it will fall of like described.
i have seen this many times with DBC base coat. omni base coat is just like DBC.
but when i do use it i add the DBC base coat activator to the omni base, i have it on the shelf so i use it. i don't spray onmi base much so i don't know if this is available in the omni line. when you add activator to base it allows the chemicals to cross link faster than without using it. when this happens it will give you a better more durable paint job.

when i spray omni clear coat i also add a reducer to get it to lay down better and when i bake it it doesn't die back as much as without reducer. i mix it 4 parts clear 1 part reducer 2 parts catalyst, then add 1 ounce of enhancer per spray able quart to speed up the dry and cure time of the clear. i do know that enhancer is available in the omni line, but i use the product made for 2021 because it's on the shelf.

there is nothing wrong with omni products when used correctly. i used them on my road runner 15 years ago. from etch prime to the clear coat. it still looks as good as the day it left the spray booth.
the one thing to keep in mind is it isn't as durable as a job cleared with 2021 clear coat. it will chip much easier.