Moparts

Voltage at coil (+)? Might be on to something...

Posted By: Schwinger

Voltage at coil (+)? Might be on to something... - 04/27/10 01:56 AM

The Roach is still running horribly...seems to only run on 7 most of the time. I checked the voltages at the ballast and coil today, I see 11.3v at the alternator post (battery's in the trunk, may be down a bit), and like 3.6v out the ballast! The ballast checks around 2.5 ohms...coulda sworn it was listed as a 1.0 ohm. The obvious (?): at that low voltage, would that cause it to hardly run? The less obvious: from 2.5 ---> 1.0 ohms, that big of a difference in voltage?
Posted By: aarcuda

Re: Voltage at coil (+)? Might be on to something... - 04/27/10 02:21 AM

ya, thats a problem. i like to see around 7v at the coil
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Voltage at coil (+)? Might be on to something... - 04/27/10 02:25 AM

11.3V tells me the charging system, isn't.

When it's running 13.8V is more like what you should see. It will vary a bit, but should be in that ballpark. Low voltage tot eh ballast means low voltage out adn low voltage at the coil.

Fix that first, then see what's at the coil. If this is a dual ballast resistor you probably have it hooked up to the wrong side, 2.5 Ohms is way too much.

How voltage drop works is simple to figure. Measure from the ballast input to ground (no voltage applied). Subtract the ballast resistance, in this case 2.5 ohms. The difference is the coil resistance. Let's say both are 2.5 ohms, then the voltage at the coil + will be half the voltage at the input to the ballast, the equally drop the same voltage. If the coil resistance was 1.25 ohms and the ballast is 2.5 then the ballast would drop 2/3 of the voltage and the coil the remaining third, so at 12V into the ballast you would see 4 volts at the coil +. IOW, the percentage of resistance the coil has in the circuit is the same percentage of voltage dropped across the coil.
Posted By: ahy

Re: Voltage at coil (+)? Might be on to something... - 04/27/10 02:27 AM

I'd check the alternator also. Voltage at the alternator should be the highest in the system normally 13-14.5 volts if its charging. Battery in the trunk should not matter. Was the car idling when you checked? Try speeding it up and check again. If its still low, your alternator isn't working.
Posted By: Schwinger

Re: Voltage at coil (+)? Might be on to something... - 04/27/10 02:35 AM

Sorry, those weren't engine running.

Like I said, the battery looks a bit down, so it's pulling almost 15v right after starting. Still, I'm only seeing 4.75-4.9v at the coil (+).

Also just discovered the ceramic core of the ballast is broken, but not the wire. Needs to be replaced anyway.
Posted By: dave571

Re: Voltage at coil (+)? Might be on to something... - 04/27/10 02:35 AM

fix the charging fault, and replace the ballast. If youa re using the single ballast, msd makes a really nice .8 ohm one
Posted By: Schwinger

Re: Voltage at coil (+)? Might be on to something... - 04/27/10 04:19 AM

OK, I dug around the garage and found a ballast that reads .7 ohms. Might be the one that came with the MSD coil, I dunno. Still seeing less than 5 volts at the coil! Went over the wiring to the ballast and the box, seems OK. Jumpered the ballast out, I get 8.3v at the coil, engine off. Was tempted to start it just to see, but didn't want to fry my only chrome box.

BTW, are ballasts rated hot or cold? The .7 ohm one read more like 1.5+ after running the engine a bit.
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: Voltage at coil (+)? Might be on to something... - 04/27/10 05:19 AM

Get a new ballast... and then if you still have a problem...
Check voltage from the ignition switch "on" position. Check for loose/bad wire terminals.

Start at the beginning(starter relay power) and go forward..check the fusable link volts at the firewall bulkhead and then the ignition switch power wires.


No MSD box?
Posted By: Schwinger

Re: Voltage at coil (+)? Might be on to something... - 04/27/10 01:07 PM

No, no MSD box. Mopar chrome box, MSD Blaster 2 coil.

The 8.3v reading without the ballast tells me I have some resistance somewhere...I'm heading for the bulkhead connector next.

Thanks for the replies!
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Voltage at coil (+)? Might be on to something... - 04/27/10 01:46 PM

Engine needs to be running (Alt charging) before you measure any voltages.
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Voltage at coil (+)? Might be on to something... - 04/27/10 09:15 PM

Wow look what the cat dragged in... LOL

Sup JC???

Check it when running. Sounds like it may be a bad wire somewhere. They don't run well on 3 volts at the coil...

As a test, you might try running a hot lead right to the ballast, opposite side of coil lead, and see if that helps.
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Voltage at coil (+)? Might be on to something... - 04/27/10 11:23 PM

Quote:

OK, I dug around the garage and found a ballast that reads .7 ohms. Might be the one that came with the MSD coil, I dunno. Still seeing less than 5 volts at the coil! Went over the wiring to the ballast and the box, seems OK. Jumpered the ballast out, I get 8.3v at the coil, engine off. Was tempted to start it just to see, but didn't want to fry my only chrome box.

BTW, are ballasts rated hot or cold? The .7 ohm one read more like 1.5+ after running the engine a bit.




With the ballast jumpered out you should see battery voltage at the coil. Since you are not you need to find out where you lost the voltage, probably at the ignition switch. I would measure the switched 12V at the ignition switch and see what that is, if it's low measure the voltage into the switch. If the switched 12V is OK at the ignition switch then the wire between the switch and the balast is the issue.
Posted By: slantzilla

Re: Voltage at coil (+)? Might be on to something... - 04/28/10 12:08 AM

Quote:



The 8.3v reading without the ballast tells me I have some resistance somewhere...I'm heading for the bulkhead connector next.






I had all kinds of weird things going on with my Valiant until I found the light blue wire in the bulkhead connector was corroded. After I fixed that things get way better.
Posted By: 71_deputy

Re: Voltage at coil (+)? Might be on to something... - 04/28/10 12:17 PM

ALSO check the connector for the ing. switch at he steering column. red for battery voltage and dark blue to ing. system.
Posted By: Schwinger

So much for that theory. - 05/02/10 01:25 AM

So I went looking for the cause of the low voltage again today. Found that the coil (+) side of the ballast actually showed shorted to ground! Traced the other wire there back to the ignition switch, where it also goes off to the gauge cluster. I have a lot of unused wires in the dash, so I just nipped that wire off. Presto, short to ground gone! No change in voltage at coil. What??? Found that I lose about 1v turning the key on, even at the alternator post. Don't get that, either. The only other wire that goes to the ballast is the starting bypass, so I clipped that one to test it. Voila, 11+v at the coil! Got it to start by releasing the key slowly from 'crank'. STILL RUNS CRAPPY


Closed up the garage.

At this point, I'm so frustrated and angry with my own lack of ability to diagnose this, I'm ready to push the car and all my mechanic tools down to the end of the driveway with a big "FREE" sign on them.
Posted By: convx4

Re: So much for that theory. - 05/02/10 02:24 AM

If it is a timing issue- have you tried reversing the wires for the magnet pick up at the distributor? If the wires are backwards it will effect the timing at higher rpm's.

Attached picture 5958711-5pinmoparbox.gif
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: So much for that theory. - 05/02/10 02:52 AM

At this point in time I'd disconnect ALL wires in the offending circuit and w some jumper wires w alligator clips on each end I'd KISS and run a jumper from the battery positive post to a ballast then from the downstream side of the ballast w a jumper to the positive primary coil terminal and from the battery positive post to the "point of the ECU that way the coil/ecu/ballast are being fed directly and as said check the dist pickup polarity (just switch it once and retry it w no other changes to confirm/eliminate that circuit) Sub in another known good coil & retry (w the jumpers) then try another ECU (not an orange one). Either one of the components is bad or the supporting wiring is and any of the electrical component can act up when hot and ohm out/act good when cold. We'll get it
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