Moparts
cummins swap into a body
Posted By: 73dart
cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 01:48 AM
just getting some thoughts on the idea of swaping a 1st gen cummins 6bt into my dodge demon....
would the .920 solo torsion bars be enought to support a 1000 pound motor ?
or should i go with a coil over set up or maybe even air ride...
other thoughts and ideas ?
Posted By: dusturbd340W5
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 01:51 AM
I have heard of people doing it with the 4 cyl cummins but never the 6 its pretty long I am sure you would have to move the fire wall way back and to answer your ? I dont think those bars are going to hold up
Posted By: 440newport
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 02:03 AM
I think the biggest problem is the height, a 6bt is a pretty tall motor. It COULD be done though I suppose.
Personally I think a diesel in a muscle car just seems wrong but it's your car.
Here's one in a Monte Carlo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO_kjaxIDzc
Posted By: 73dart
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 02:08 AM
i can deal with the height of the motor... i am worried about the weight... around 1150 with oil and acc... and the length of the engine...
i do like the thought of 30mpg
Posted By: buildanother
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 02:17 AM
For the mpg, why not the 4bt? You'll just need about 150 lb flywheel to keep your teeth from rattling out.
Posted By: Sport440
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 02:20 AM
Quote:
I think the biggest problem is the height, a 6bt is a pretty tall motor. It COULD be done though I suppose.
Personally I think a diesel in a muscle car just seems wrong but it's your car.
Here's one in a Chevelle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO_kjaxIDzc
OMG, That car has no radio. 
Posted By: Deans68plym
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 02:24 AM
If you want 30 mpg and don't want to destroy what little frame your car has, use a 3.9 Cummins instead of the 5.9. It will be a lot friendlier fit and have enough power and will give you the 30mpg you want.
I have a 4BT/727 in my '68 Satellite wagon, and even in cold weather and a blend fuel I can easily get 26.
The 4BT dressed out weighs about 30lbs more than a RB eng.
Posted By: Deans68plym
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 02:31 AM
Quote:
For the mpg, why not the 4bt? You'll just need about 150 lb flywheel to keep your teeth from rattling out.
I still have all my teeth!
Someone didn't do their homework before building their engine mounts!!
But really, the 4BT vibration mostly goes away after 800 rpm. I run mine at 60 at around 1750, and it's smooth.
Posted By: 73dart
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 02:40 AM
i havent found any great deals on the smaller diesels... and it seams easier to make more reliable power with the 5.9... maybe i am wrong...
Posted By: Deans68plym
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 02:49 AM
Quote:
i havent found any great deals on the smaller diesels... and it seams easier to make more reliable power with the 5.9... maybe i am wrong...
You won't find a more reliable engine than the 5.9 or the "little brother" 3.9 Cummins. The 3.9 can give you over 200 hp and more than 400 ft/lb., and still run a long time. I have heard of the 3.9 running 8000 hrs. untouched.
You can find 3.9 core engines for under $1000, and a nice low mile one for less than $3000.
How much is a good rebuild on a 440? And how many miles will that last??
Posted By: NITROUSN
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 02:51 AM
You are going to be in for a lot more than you bargained for on that swap. You had better measure one from the front of the intercooler to the back of the bell. Plan on no center in the core support, fire wall and tunnel cut out.
Posted By: Deans68plym
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 03:05 AM
Quote:
You are going to be in for a lot more than you bargained for on that swap. You had better measure one from the front of the intercooler to the back of the bell. Plan on no center in the core support, fire wall and tunnel cut out.
With a 5.9, I agree. Go seek counselling first.
Posted By: 1967 V100
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 03:47 AM
6BT length of block is 29.45", RFOB to FFOB, gear housing and damper adds 4.0" plus your flywheel housing or trans adapter. Estimated overall length is 40.00" with SAE#3 housing. 4B is 9.45" shorter (block is 20")
Posted By: 1967 V100
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 03:49 AM
Crankshaft centerline to top of valve cover is 19.88", crank centerline to bottom of standard rear sump oil pan is 12.21". Turbo and intake will add height depending on options.
Posted By: SNK-EYZ
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 04:19 AM
Quote:
I think the biggest problem is the height, a 6bt is a pretty tall motor. It COULD be done though I suppose.
Personally I think a diesel in a muscle car just seems wrong but it's your car.
Here's one in a Monte Carlo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO_kjaxIDzc
That Monte Carlo is a local car (MO).
It was at the Easter show last year sitting next to a same body style big block Monte Carlo.
The funny thing was it actually sat higher than the stock height big block car.
Posted By: 68HemiB
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 05:17 AM
Dimensions notwithstanding, that is too much weight IMO.
Regardless of the T-bat diameter, one [of many] weak points in such a plan is the rear anchor point for the T-Bar.
Hypermiling a /6 can get you close to your mpg goal, and not upset the apple cart to the degree you are contemplating.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 05:27 AM
Quote:
Dimensions notwithstanding, that is too much weight IMO.
Regardless of the T-bat diameter, one [of many] weak points in such a plan is the rear anchor point for the T-Bar.
That is my concern as well. The torsion bar sockets are welded into the frame, which is not the strongest thing to begin with, but does the job just fine in the weight zone for which these cars were designed. If mpg was the ultimate goal, I would be looking more at mating a 90's mopar 2.4L 4cyl to a rwd overdrive manual trans. I know it's been done, mopar 4cyl mated to a toyota rwd trans. A bit more complicated swap but the weight savings alone would be worth it!
Posted By: 73dart
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 05:37 AM
mpg isnt the main concern... but its a positive... i guess go with a coil over and tie the frame together and shoe horn it in there... lol
Posted By: demon
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 05:42 AM
Quote:
If you want 30 mpg and don't want to destroy what little frame your car has, use a 3.9 Cummins instead of the 5.9. It will be a lot friendlier fit and have enough power and will give you the 30mpg you want.
I have a 4BT/727 in my '68 Satellite wagon, and even in cold weather and a blend fuel I can easily get 26.
The 4BT dressed out weighs about 30lbs more than a RB eng.
that sounds neat. How about some pictures and info about thrc
swap?
Posted By: MonGoo$e
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 12:19 PM
who is it on here that has the 408 stroker, OD, and sorta high gearing and getting 24 mpg? that makes more sense than any diesel
Posted By: patrick
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 01:15 PM
Quote:
Dimensions notwithstanding, that is too much weight IMO.
Regardless of the T-bat diameter, one [of many] weak points in such a plan is the rear anchor point for the T-Bar.
Hypermiling a /6 can get you close to your mpg goal, and not upset the apple cart to the degree you are contemplating.
or search the archives for Hodroddave40's "super-duper gas mileage 318"
basically take a 318, 0 deck with KB167's, run 302's or magnum heads (I'd go magnum), a small solid or hydraulic (he used a stock 273 solid cam, I'd probably go hydraulic with a lunati voodoo 60400), stock 4bbl or performer intake, and a small t-quad. tranny, use an A833OD with a 3.23 or 2.94 rear, auto, use a low gear lockup 904 with a 2.45 or 2.76 rear.
Posted By: patrick
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 01:17 PM
Quote:
who is it on here that has the 408 stroker, OD, and sorta high gearing and getting 24 mpg? that makes more sense than any diesel
forgot about that car...IIRC its a mag headed 408 with a hydraulic roller in the 216@.050 range, and a tquad...runs low 13's and gets 24-25mpg highway.
Posted By: Deans68plym
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 01:30 PM
Quote:
Quote:
If you want 30 mpg and don't want to destroy what little frame your car has, use a 3.9 Cummins instead of the 5.9. It will be a lot friendlier fit and have enough power and will give you the 30mpg you want.
I have a 4BT/727 in my '68 Satellite wagon, and even in cold weather and a blend fuel I can easily get 26.
The 4BT dressed out weighs about 30lbs more than a RB eng.
that sounds neat. How about some pictures and info about thrc
swap?
Shoot me you E-Mail and I'll send pics.
Dean
Posted By: patrick
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 01:53 PM
I'd like to see it too, why don't you start a thread about it?
Posted By: rjsjea
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 07:07 PM
Would be an interesting swap, but sounds like it's gonna be quite nose-heavy.
Posted By: clarkj
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/05/10 08:37 PM
As far as the T-bars go, talk to Dick at Firm-Feel. They make bars alot bigger than the .920 ones. I have 1.12 bars in my hobby stock, and I believe they go bigger yet.
Posted By: Deans68plym
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/06/10 01:50 AM
Quote:
I'd like to see it too, why don't you start a thread about it?
I really don't have enough time to stay at the 'puter to continue a thread, you guys would get tired of waiting for me to come back.
I'll send pics to you and answer any questions I can.
New complete exhaust on the "Dragon Wagon" today!!
Dean
Posted By: NITROUSN
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/06/10 03:29 AM
Most are dreamers on these types of projects. What impresses me is the ones that show what they have done. They dont talk about it they do it. The do'ers get the props
Posted By: Deans68plym
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/06/10 02:06 PM
Quote:
Most are dreamers on these types of projects. What impresses me is the ones that show what they have done. They dont talk about it they do it. The do'ers get the props
Well, since we stole this thread.........
Like I said, I can E-Mail pics of my "Dragon Wagon" with the 3.9 turbo'd Cummins, and answer any questions about it to anyone interested. PM me or E-Mail Deans68plym@hotmail.com
I know of another 4BT swap... in a `73 Satellite.
Posted By: MoparJoe
Re: cummins swap into a body - 03/06/10 04:25 PM
I dont think a 6bt would fit under the cowl, may be better off putting the shell on a truck chassis.
If you want a weird engine swap that requires a ton of work and gets 30mpg try a honda S2000 motor & trans with a Jackson blower and stick 5.13's in the 8.75, at least it will still be fun to drive still since the motor is light and you can shift it at 9k.
The cummins makes a 1gen Ram drive like a cow on skates, I could only imagine how an A body would drive.