Moparts
Double flare tubing tool
Posted By: Moneypit6
Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 03:48 PM
I bought a tool from Summit to do some 3/8" steel fuel line with. I cut some practice pieces to learn on. I'm having a big problem with the tubing just slipping through the holder. That's with the holder fully tightened with C clamps on each side of the press. Is there a trick to keeping the tubing from pushing through the holder! Not sure what else I can do.
Any help here would be appreciated.
Posted By: bobbyb
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 04:14 PM
I had the same problem with one I bought from Sears. It was suppose to do double flares but the clamp on the tool wouldn't hold the tubing in position while flaring. I could use some tips also or a GOOD tool that actually works right.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 04:17 PM
Quote:
Any help here would be appreciated.
Haven't run into that but I've only used my buddies Rigid brand which is pretty good piece. I'd suspect that they didn't machine it right maybe not enough off of the 2 faces that meet so not enough clamping force. I'm thinking that you could can wrap something real thin around the tubing to make up for that like some thin metal shim material from your hardware store?
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 04:22 PM
I've got a 45° double flare and a 37° single flare tool and both grib the line fine when you tighten them down hard. Did use a friends ages ago and his would slip too (even using pliers to really crank it down tight), think as mentioned must just be ones machined poorly perhaps
If you have the clamps as tight as possible and it still slips, maybe call Summit and see if they will change it for another one...
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 04:33 PM
I know what your talking about, the cheaper tools will do that. You can make it work by tightening the end of the tool closest to the tube first, then tighten the farthest away second. Tightening the longer end of the tool last gives it more leverage to grip the tube better. Does that make sense?
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 04:35 PM
Quote:
I've got a 45° double flare and a 37° single flare tool
OzHemi I've been wondering about this since I have a 45 & want to do some 37's on some AN tubing/fittings. Is the only diff the angle on the nub as I want to just turn one down or turn another one (to get 37)???. On the orig Q & not visualizing how it is but are there 2 places on the end where the 2 sides come together like a pair of calipers that could be trimmed a bit for more clamping force along the 2 faces? I think the only caveat is you need to end up w the tapered point still centered over the tubing
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 04:38 PM
I think so...I've used it a bunch of times now to do AN stuff and it's worked great. I hadn't thought of turning a 45° down...just ordered the other one. But don't forget that the dimple in the holder has to be the right angle too
Posted By: jcc
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 04:49 PM
After years of frustration with the $50? Summit type tools, I dropped a few hundred on the real hydraulic double flare tools, and glad I did.
Posted By: ledft79
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 04:53 PM
Quote:
Tightening the longer end of the tool last gives it more leverage to grip the tube better. Does that make sense?
If you tighten the wrong end first, it doesn't hold near as well.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 04:53 PM
Quote:
But don't forget that the dimple in the holder has to be the right angle too
thanks OZ 
. Holy Moses I forgot about the angle on the other side would have to match also 
. Sounds like I better just pony up & get a Summitt (they're cheap)(now I know why) assuming that the ends can be filed so it will clamp down tight
Posted By: Moneypit6
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 04:55 PM
" Does that make sense?"
It certainly does, but in this case the clamps are both bottomed. It has a slight bulge in the area of the tube because it's flexing. I C-clamped on each side to complete the squeeze but this stuff is stubborn. I can mill more off of the clamp but was just wondering if there was a good trick without squeezing the *ell out of the tube and making it look smaller after the install. I'm beginning to think I have to size it so that it actually pinches the tube down a little and makes it's own shoulder.
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 04:58 PM
Quote:
After years of frustration with the $50? Summit type tools, I dropped a few hundred on the real hydraulic double flare tools, and glad I did.
I was temped on one of them, sure look like a nice way to go.
On the tool topic, I just bought an A/C hose crimper, sure works nice 
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 04:59 PM
Quote:
" Does that make sense?"
It certainly does, but in this case the clamps are both bottomed. It has a slight bulge in the area of the tube because it's flexing. I C-clamped on each side to complete the squeeze but this stuff is stubborn. I can mill more off of the clamp but was just wondering if there was a good trick without squeezing the *ell out of the tube and making it look smaller after the install. I'm beginning to think I have to size it so that it actually pinches the tube down a little and makes it's own shoulder.
Try what I said first on a fresh peice of tube. You don't want the tube colasped where you gripe it either. It it's leaving a crimp mark, then it will work without any milling.
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 05:00 PM
Quote:
Quote:
But don't forget that the dimple in the holder has to be the right angle too
thanks OZ . Holy Moses I forgot about the angle on the other side would have to match also . Sounds like I better just pony up & get a Summitt (they're cheap)(now I know why) assuming that the ends can be filed so it will clamp down tight
Maybe moneypit will give you a deal on a slighty used one 
Posted By: 62maxwgn
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 05:14 PM
If you are going to any amount of double flaring,go to a refrigeration parts supplier and buy a Imperial-Eastman.It's tube holder (attached) won't slip no matter what size tube.It's still USA made and will last forever.In tools,you get what you pay for. :twocents
Posted By: Moneypit6
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 05:23 PM
"If you are going to any amount of double flaring,go to a refrigeration parts supplier and buy a Imperial-Eastman."
Now we're talking. Wish I would have knew that before. I certainly agree with the good tool theory. I just didn't know I would have this problem.
The clamp slips on the tube no matter what side is tightened first. I think I'll mill a few thousands off and go from there.
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 05:26 PM
Quote:
If you are going to any amount of double flaring,go to a refrigeration parts supplier and buy a Imperial-Eastman.It's tube holder (attached) won't slip no matter what size tube.It's still USA made and will last forever.In tools,you get what you pay for. :twocents
Nice looking tool!
And I agree....that A/C crimper I just got is a good quality tool, and just makes the job go smooth and easy...I bought my flare tools a little bit ago, and wasn't aware of that style, sure looks good.
Posted By: larry890
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 05:29 PM
I repair lots of fuel and brake line, and have noticed that the od sizes differ on several different brands of line. causing them to slip in the clamp.
Posted By: Moneypit6
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 05:30 PM
Imperial Eastman 525-F
I just checked this tool out on their site. It's single flare only. Their double flair tools look like everyone elses!??
Posted By: Slider
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 05:40 PM
Quote:
Their double flair tools look like everyone elses!??
Posted By: 62maxwgn
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 05:51 PM
This set is 24yrs old.May be different now,but this is the way it came.
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 05:56 PM
Quote:
This set is 24yrs old.May be different now,but this is the way it came.
Looks like they might have changed it over the years...here is the same part number as your's...
http://www.hvactool.com/catalog.php3?hcategory=18&hsubcat=79&hpagenum=1&hproductid=93-FB
Posted By: Dodgem
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 06:04 PM
I either camp the center in the vice to hold it tight or use one or two vise grips!
Posted By: justinp61
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 06:14 PM
I have my dads old double flaring tool and it's worn pretty bad. What I've done is take a small piece of worn out fine sand paper, put it in the groove and tighten. This may not be ideal but it has worked many times for me.
Posted By: 2Bad360sfromNC
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 06:32 PM
I borrowed a KD 2190 from a guy at work, and it works perfect. I've never seen another one made quite like it. I am now on the lookout for a good deal on one to get for myself. I messed around with some of those typical ones and they all slipped. I wouldn't mind the hydraulic style ones, but they sure are pricey for no more than I would use them.
Posted By: Moneypit6
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 06:32 PM
Quote:
I have my dads old double flaring tool and it's worn pretty bad. What I've done is take a small piece of worn out fine sand paper, put it in the groove and tighten. This may not be ideal but it has worked many times for me.
Well, that's a pretty good idea. Have to give that a shot.
Posted By: Moneypit6
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 06:36 PM
Quote:
I borrowed a KD 2190 from a guy at work, and it works perfect. I've never seen another one made quite like it.
http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/kdt2190-78.html
A whole $14.53. Hmmm
Posted By: 440newport
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 07:31 PM
Quote:
I borrowed a KD 2190 from a guy at work, and it works perfect. I've never seen another one made quite like it. I am now on the lookout for a good deal on one to get for myself. I messed around with some of those typical ones and they all slipped. I wouldn't mind the hydraulic style ones, but they sure are pricey for no more than I would use them.
That style works the best I think, I have a similar one that's about 30 years old.
Posted By: HealthServices
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 07:40 PM
Go to ebay and you will find some very good used ones for cheaper than new.
Posted By: 2Bad360sfromNC
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 08:23 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I borrowed a KD 2190 from a guy at work, and it works perfect. I've never seen another one made quite like it.
http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/kdt2190-78.html
A whole $14.53. Hmmm
That is for the four inserts 2190-78. The picture is misleading. The whole set is just p/n 2190 with no -78. Yeah, if I could get the whole deal for 15 bucks, I'd get a couple of 'em!
Posted By: Lefty
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 09:34 PM
Quote:
After years of frustration with the $50? Summit type tools, I dropped a few hundred on the real hydraulic double flare tools, and glad I did.
The ability to make perfect double flares and no more frustration from trying to use a cheaper tool makes it priceless. NOTHING is more frustrating that getting to the last flare on a complex bend and having a cheap flare tool ruin the work. 
...except have it happen twice... 
Posted By: mopar4ya
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 10:21 PM
Quote:
Quote:
After years of frustration with the $50? Summit type tools, I dropped a few hundred on the real hydraulic double flare tools, and glad I did.
The ability to make perfect double flares and no more frustration from trying to use a cheaper tool makes it priceless. NOTHING is more frustrating that getting to the last flare on a complex bend and having a cheap flare tool ruin the work. ...except have it happen twice...
I couldn't have said it better. I just went through this on some 3/8 fuel lines. I borrowed a friends Mastercool hydraulic set and it was a breeze. I will be buy a kit soon.
Dan 
Posted By: belv2vert66
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 11:15 PM
Quote:
After years of frustration with the $50? Summit type tools, I dropped a few hundred on the real hydraulic double flare tools, and glad I did.
Did the same thing.....Mastercool here...One of the best tools in my box.....
Posted By: OzHemi
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/06/10 11:16 PM
My a/c crimper is a Mastercool, they seem to make real nice stuff
Posted By: Jeremiah
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/07/10 12:25 AM
Quote:
My a/c crimper is a Mastercool, they seem to make real nice stuff
I have a Mastercool setup and it is awesome. Factory looking flares without having to remove the line from the car after you bend it up.
The main problem with the flaring tools that are sold is that they are made for "thin wall" tubing. I have yet to see a parts store that sells said think wall tubing. Did you ever notice that your tubing vice (the thing that holds the tube) makes the tube oval when tightened down? This is because you are using thick wall tubing. I have never seen a cheapy double flaring kit made for "thick wall" tubing.
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/07/10 03:25 AM
Quote:
I know what your talking about, the cheaper tools will do that. You can make it work by tightening the end of the tool closest to the tube first, then tighten the farthest away second. Tightening the longer end of the tool last gives it more leverage to grip the tube better. Does that make sense?
Exactly what I do with the cheap HF one that I have. Run closest end down first then tighten the far wingnut. Works fine.
I'd like to have one of the better quality pieces, but, you gotta work with what you have and mine was free!
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/07/10 03:58 AM
I'm wondering if the sandpaper trick would take care of it, sure sounds worth a try
Posted By: Moneypit6
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/07/10 10:52 AM
Quote:
I'm wondering if the sandpaper trick would take care of it, sure sounds worth a try
It didn't work for me. I give. I don't want to mess around. When I want a flare, it needs to be a good flare. We're talking fuel or brakes here. I'm going to pony up for a good tool. Sounds like Mastercool makes good stuff.
Posted By: 4BBodies
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/07/10 01:07 PM
I went through this myself with a cheap set years ago, and took the advice to buy a Snap On set. Love it, I have not had a problem yet. Never had a leak either........
Posted By: 71scamp440
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/08/10 02:37 PM
get an otc stinger part number 4503. we sell them over the counter at my work for $33.85. it hasnt let me down yet. used it twice last week with no issues.
Posted By: 67Charger
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/08/10 03:52 PM
Quote:
get an otc stinger part number 4503. we sell them over the counter at my work for $33.85. it hasnt let me down yet. used it twice last week with no issues.
I "rented" that exact kit from Autozone for $25 deposit, and never returned it. Before you jump on me, it was at the counterman's advice. He said if I liked it I should just keep it. They couldn't necessarily sell them, but they could replace non-returned rentals with another one. I just used it again last night to do the custom lines on my new Dana. Never slipped once and does really nice flares.
Posted By: pyp1000
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/08/10 04:28 PM
Making sure the end you're flaring has some silicone spray lube on it will help keep the flaring device from pushing it through the clamp.
Posted By: Chilort
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/08/10 05:07 PM
Vice-Grips.
Now I wish I would have taken some pictures of the kludge I worked out to get my Summit double flare tool to work. As already stated, tighten the sucker until both ends bottom out. Then put the rest of the thing together like you are going to use it but don't start yet. Now take a pair of Vice-Grips and use them to squeeze the bulge in the tube clamp together. I've done several things like this from 1/4 to 3/8 and have had good luck so far.
I made the fuel lines (the 5/16 part going up to the brass-T and the 3/8 attached to the carb -- the 5/16 really snakes around and I did not want to have to do it twice and I made these trans cooler lines to go hug the frame [only showing 1])
Posted By: Chilort
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/08/10 05:21 PM
Here we go, a picture is worth a thousand words.
Posted By: roadrunninMark
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/08/10 06:01 PM
This is a real good thread, I am coming up on having to do some brake line bending and flaring too! Is it true that you cannot double flare stainless steel lines? What is the best tube size to use to run for brakes? I will be using disc brakes at both ends.
Mark
Posted By: Dave Watt
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/08/10 06:19 PM
After clamping the tubing into the holder, I clamp the holder into my vice so it smashes the holder flat and grips the tube. The fitting always covers up the grip marks when finished.
Posted By: Lefty
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/09/10 02:34 AM
Another cool thing about the Mastercool kit is that you can buy replacement parts. I wore out the 3/16" gripping die and got a replacement for $15.
Posted By: Moneypit6
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/09/10 01:25 PM
I ended up putting it into a vise, tightening up both locks, loostening the vise to reposition the clamp so I could get the tool over the tube. Re-tightening the vise right next to the tool. Tighten up the tool and it pushed the tube out the bottom. It did make a part of the flare but not enough. Removed the tool from the clamp and the tube had been noticeably squeezed to a smaller diameter.
So, gave up. Ordered the mastercool kit. Hope it works.
Also, most of the tube comes in coils. Is there a trick to straightening it so that it looks ... straight?
Posted By: dodgy
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/09/10 03:04 PM
yep grab a chunk of wood 4x3/4x4 and drill the next size up to your tube in it, mount the wood with the hole in it in your vice and pull the line through the hole.maybe i could have explaned that better, but you know what i'm thinking i hope.
Luke
Posted By: Slider
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/09/10 03:05 PM
Quote:
Quote:
My a/c crimper is a Mastercool, they seem to make real nice stuff
I have a Mastercool setup and it is awesome. Factory looking flares without having to remove the line from the car after you bend it up.
The main problem with the flaring tools that are sold is that they are made for "thin wall" tubing. I have yet to see a parts store that sells said think wall tubing. Did you ever notice that your tubing vice (the thing that holds the tube) makes the tube oval when tightened down? This is because you are using thick wall tubing. I have never seen a cheapy double flaring kit made for "thick wall" tubing.
Have been following this thread with interest. Ran across this description on Amazon, of thier Ridgid 345 flaring tool:
<i>Product Description
Item #: 632-23337. All flaring tools listed are recommended for soft materials such as aluminum and soft copper
No. 454W, No. 455, and No. 375 will also flare steel, <b>stainless steel</b>, hard copper, and brass
No. 458R and No. 377 will flare steel, <b>stainless steel</b>, hard copper, and brass thru wall thickness of .035 inches
No. 345 is a precisioin designed tool for producing 45§ flares in soft copper. brass. aluminum, and mild-steel tubing. A hardened, smooth cone provides fast, 45§ flares either single or double lap. A single clamp screw provides for easy clamping and removal of tubing</i>
Not reccomending a Ridgid, just for additional info. 458R was about $120.
Posted By: Moneypit6
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/10/10 05:39 PM
Well, got the Mastercool flaring kit by UPS after my $320 payment. Put small 45 degree bevels on the line. Locked it in the locking jaws and tightened up till it was very tight with the blocks bottomed. With the tool in place and adjusted, I squeezed the hydraulic handle as I half shut my eyes in fear. The other half of my eyes watched as the tubing pushed right out the bottom of the die!!!!! Noooo!!! It did absolutely no better at holding the tube than the cheaper tools did.
I don't see any way it will work unless I grind the outer diameter of the tube down to weaken it. It's 3/8" steel tubing with a .028 wall. That would be counter productive on a fuel line to thin it out more I would think. I'm confused about how so many people don't have any problems doing this unless they are using it on smaller tube.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/10/10 06:03 PM
Quote:
Well, got the Mastercool flaring kit by UPS after my $320 payment. Put small 45 degree bevels on the line. Locked it in the locking jaws and tightened up till it was very tight with the blocks bottomed. With the tool in place and adjusted, I squeezed the hydraulic handle as I half shut my eyes in fear. The other half of my eyes watched as the tubing pushed right out the bottom of the die!!!!! Noooo!!! It did absolutely no better at holding the tube than the cheaper tools did.
I don't see any way it will work unless I grind the outer diameter of the tube down to weaken it. It's 3/8" steel tubing with a .028 wall. That would be counter productive on a fuel line to thin it out more I would think. I'm confused about how so many people don't have any problems doing this unless they are using it on smaller tube.
Wow...320 bucks? 
Like somone said above, get some different tubing. Sorry about your trouble.
Posted By: SSAAHemiFan
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/10/10 10:46 PM
Get different tubing... just like copper wire that is now made to the low end of the spec , so is tubing (usually offshore)
Posted By: jcc
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/10/10 11:40 PM
, I'm a big proponent of the MasterCool solution, hope someone can step and give a suggestion, when you start with brake lines in SS you will feel better.
Posted By: Lefty
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/11/10 12:56 AM
Quote:
Well, got the Mastercool flaring kit by UPS after my $320 payment. Put small 45 degree bevels on the line. Locked it in the locking jaws and tightened up till it was very tight with the blocks bottomed. With the tool in place and adjusted, I squeezed the hydraulic handle as I half shut my eyes in fear. The other half of my eyes watched as the tubing pushed right out the bottom of the die!!!!! Noooo!!! It did absolutely no better at holding the tube than the cheaper tools did.
I don't see any way it will work unless I grind the outer diameter of the tube down to weaken it. It's 3/8" steel tubing with a .028 wall. That would be counter productive on a fuel line to thin it out more I would think. I'm confused about how so many people don't have any problems doing this unless they are using it on smaller tube.
Some things come to mind...
Clean the line and clamping die with brake clean to make sure there's no oil.
If you are using SS line like Summit sells you have to anneal the end of the line before flaring. I know the ad says it's already annealed, but trust me, it needs to be done again. I use my jet flame cigar lighter pointed at the end until it starts to turn golden, then let it air cool till it's cool to the touch.
Look at the clamping die on the back where the size is stamped. It should be indented where the "45 Inverted" is stamped and the print should be at 90 degrees to the "3/16" stamping. If not, it's the older design. Call Mastercool and ask for tech support. They will probably send you out the newer design clamping die.
You have to bevel the outside edge of the line as in the instructions.
Hope this helps... 
Posted By: Magnum
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/11/10 01:48 PM
Quote:
Making sure the end you're flaring has some silicone spray lube on it will help keep the flaring device from pushing it through the clamp.
I do that too. Usually oil in the die.
Another thing is to file the outside edge a bit and debur the inside. Extra material just makes it harder to flare the extra material.
As for the clamp. Once they slip, they teeth holding the line just get worn out.
Posted By: 2fast4yourBrain
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/11/10 02:54 PM
Posted By: HealthServices
Re: Double flare tubing tool - 02/11/10 04:35 PM
I do and it works very well for my purposes. I use the 37 degree for AN fittings. Not super quick for production line work but works well for me.