Gear Vendor Users?

Posted By: racealittle

Gear Vendor Users? - 01/31/10 10:01 PM

How much of a change in mpg with a 440, 727 and your choice of gear?

How much converter are you using?

Ease of installation in an E body?

Thanks

Posted By: topside

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 01/31/10 11:14 PM

My application is an '89 GMC 3500 dually, 454/400/4.10, and it picked up about 3 MPG with the GV. It tows my racecar, open trailer, maybe 500 lbs in the truck; trailer & car are probably about 4500 or so. MPG improvement is better with just the truck - the 500 lbs are almost always in the back, being the support equipment, and that's the truck's only job - but it's worth 1.5-2 MPG loaded & towing.
Been on the truck for almost 15 years, and never a problem.

Posted By: mark7171

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/01/10 12:19 AM

Are you able to split the gears making an effective 6 speed TH400 automatic?

Posted By: EV2AAR

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/01/10 01:01 AM

Picked up 2 mpg in a 73 Dart ; 408 Stroker 800cfm,
3.55's

Posted By: 68X426

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/01/10 01:29 AM

If it helps, in a B-body, with a Hemi (now 502 ci and 600+ horse), 727 and 4.10 Dana, 2800 converter (Dynamic TCT), went from 10 to 14 mpg on the highway.

I wouldn't/couldn't run the 4.10s without the GV. Around town is still about 5 mpg

I hear it's an easy fit for E-bodies.

Posted By: Pyper70

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/01/10 02:14 AM

440/727/3,55's. 2400 flash converter

In a 69 Charger. I drove her from LA to Atlanta with the OD on all the way. 2610 miles and 155 gallons of gas ( I was keeping track ) Averages out to 17mpg. Not bad I say. The whole time I was doing 80mph and goin 2800rpm

Posted By: Roppa440

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/01/10 09:52 AM

440/727 4.30 rear gears. Fitted the GV unit 7 years ago.

With the OD on I am doing 3200rpm at 70mph.
OD off and it's 4100rpm at the same speed. I get about 11 miles to the US gallon at this speed from my 550hp engine.

Posted By: racealittle

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/01/10 02:15 PM

Quote:

440/727 4.30 rear gears. Fitted the GV unit 7 years ago.

With the OD on I am doing 3200rpm at 70mph.
OD off and it's 4100rpm at the same speed. I get about 11 US gallons to the mile at this speed from my 550hp engine.

I'm sure you mean 11 miles to the gallon.

Thanks everyone. I'm trying to get a perspective of the realities people are acheiving with their combinations and the use of a Gear Vendor unit. Everyone drives different, or builds a combination for a specific need or purpose. I have an idea how certain combinations consume fuel and what the inside of the car can be like at cruise conditions.

Any and all input is appeciated.

Posted By: Roppa440

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/01/10 02:44 PM

Quote:

I'm sure you mean 11 miles to the gallon.

I am ALWAYS doing that for some reason?

Oh yes. I know what it is. I'm old and dumb.

Better correct it before someone else notices....

Posted By: 360view

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/01/10 02:48 PM

If any of you all with Gear Vendors units,
or someone who has just bought a new one,
would take a torque wrench
and find out how much
torque it takes to rotate the input shaft when the unit is not connected to anything,
that would be a nice volunteer thing to measure and post,
so that we could make a guess at how much horsepower the Gear Vendors unit consumes being in the drivetrain.

Posted By: Roppa440

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/01/10 02:49 PM

If you want to see an installation on an E-body I have a thread with detailed photos on my own message board. You can self register to have a look.
http://challenger.mpoli.fi/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9182#9182

Posted By: racealittle

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/01/10 04:31 PM

Quote:

If any of you all with Gear Vendors units,
or someone who has just bought a new one,
would take a torque wrench
and find out how much
torque it takes to rotate the input shaft when the unit is not connected to anything,
that would be a nice volunteer thing to measure and post,
so that we could make a guess at how much horsepower the Gear Vendors unit consumes being in the drivetrain.

Their website claims 1 hp loss per 400 hp. So that would be almost no parasitic loss when disengaged.

Posted By: Roppa440

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/01/10 07:21 PM

The only thing it is doing when disengaged is driving a small hydraulic pump. These things were used on British cars for many years. Even on little MG sports cars and they don't make any power to start with so if one of those can drive a GV unit OK then your big V8 shouldn't hardly notice it is there.

Posted By: dragaddict

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/02/10 04:20 AM

Have one in a 69 Coronet with 440 & 727. Have 2400 convertwer and 4:10 gears. Drove the Racine 2 yrs back for power tour and car is a blast. Had 3:23 before and not bad but car is so much more fun all around now. Would do it again. Lots of naysayers on here and there are other options but this was easy and used exsisting trans ect.

Posted By: racealittle

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/02/10 02:40 PM

Quote:

Have one in a 69 Coronet with 440 & 727. Have 2400 convertwer and 4:10 gears. Drove the Racine 2 yrs back for power tour and car is a blast. Had 3:23 before and not bad but car is so much more fun all around now. Would do it again. Lots of naysayers on here and there are other options but this was easy and used exsisting trans ect.

I know what you are saying. I like a 3.9 or 4.10, but I also like what a 3.23 has to offer. I haven't tried a 2.5 or 2.7 with a torquey big block.

I am considering starting off with the 3.23 gear. I have a very torquey motor. I really want to travel with the car. I have 3.91 and 4.10 gears and thought that I would play with that down the road when I tire of long road trips.

The other option is to put the Dana back in the car. I want to remove the 4.56 and put a 3.54 in it. I have the 4.10 gear set for it. Decisions, decisions.

I know the 3.54 is the best compromise and will work with any motor I have.

Did you have to change anything other than the speedo gear when changing from 3.23 to 4.10?

Posted By: denfireguy

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/02/10 02:48 PM

To calculate the financial return on an overdrive conversion, set a price for a gallon of gas. In this case, I will use price of $4 a gallon. I hope this is a real horrible estimate of future gas prices. I am using 10,000 miles a year for driving. I am using 15 mpg before adding the overdrive.

Before:
10000 miles / 15 mpg = 666.66 gallons of gas.

Cost = 666.66 X $4 = $2,666.66 per year

Add overdrive and you get 25% better gas mileage or 18.75 mpg

After:
10000 / 18.75 mpg = 533.33 gallons of gas.

Cost = 533.33 X $4 = $2133.33

Savings $533.32

Cost of overdrive = $2,695.00 (Barracuda 904 price)

Pay back 2695.00 / 533.32 = 5.05 years.

If you drive less, it will take longer (5000 miles, 10 years). If gas is cheaper, it will take longer ($3 gas, 6.73 years). And both, 13 years.
You will have to figure this out for your own needs but just follow the formula above and you can see for yourself.
It makes no sense to put one on a trailer queen.
The hard to calculate advantage is less wear and tear on your engine and transmission. Since they are spinning at 25% less RPM (at cruising speed), that savings is more than negligible.
The fun factor is impossible to calculate but it is enough that I probably will do the conversion myself, but not immediately. My rebuild is first priority, the overdrive will be a year or so out.
Puting 25% less money into Exxon's pocket: priceless.

Craig

Posted By: racealittle

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/02/10 05:08 PM

Quote:

To calculate the financial return on an overdrive conversion, set a price for a gallon of gas. In this case, I will use price of $4 a gallon. I hope this is a real horrible estimate of future gas prices. I am using 10,000 miles a year for driving. I am using 15 mpg before adding the overdrive.

Before:
10000 miles / 15 mpg = 666.66 gallons of gas.

Cost = 666.66 X $4 = $2,666.66 per year

Add overdrive and you get 25% better gas mileage or 18.75 mpg

After:
10000 / 18.75 mpg = 533.33 gallons of gas.

Cost = 533.33 X $4 = $2133.33

Savings $533.32

Cost of overdrive = $2,695.00 (Barracuda 904 price)

Pay back 2695.00 / 533.32 = 5.05 years.

If you drive less, it will take longer (5000 miles, 10 years). If gas is cheaper, it will take longer ($3 gas, 6.73 years). And both, 13 years.
You will have to figure this out for your own needs but just follow the formula above and you can see for yourself.
It makes no sense to put one on a trailer queen.
The hard to calculate advantage is less wear and tear on your engine and transmission. Since they are spinning at 25% less RPM (at cruising speed), that savings is more than negligible.
The fun factor is impossible to calculate but it is enough that I probably will do the conversion myself, but not immediately. My rebuild is first priority, the overdrive will be a year or so out.
Puting 25% less money into Exxon's pocket: priceless.

Craig

I agree, the fun factor of the car is number one. I don't trailer any more. Gas is about $5.00 and going up with the new HST tax. Gas in the U.S. costs a premium dollar wise, but is still cheaper than Canada (in general). The GV unit paying for itself is about 3rd or fourth on the list of priorities for having a Gear Vendor.

I'm buying mine used and I feel 2 to 3 years it will pay for itself. If I sell the car, I'm likely to keep the drivetrain unless the deal covers costs.

The cost of a tow vehicle, trailer, insurance, maintenance, etc., easily pay for a new GV unit, if you think about it.

If I break down, I have to fix the car. That's part of the adventure. Hopefully there are enough Moparts people along the way. Otherwise, call a friend with the truck/ trailer, etc. to come join me on the vacation, (if I can't fix). It's a one time expense that I don't mind paying for.

Posted By: denfireguy

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/02/10 10:42 PM

Quote:

If I break down, I have to fix the car. That's part of the adventure. Hopefully there are enough Moparts people along the way. Otherwise, call a friend with the truck/ trailer, etc. to come join me on the vacation, (if I can't fix). It's a one time expense that I don't mind paying for.

If you do around Denver, you will be rescued. Around Grand Junction, I am sure Mark will help you out.
Take care,
Craig

Posted By: Roppa440

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/03/10 09:14 AM

Yes but.

You don't want to be driving at less than the stall speed of the torque converter all the time. You might want to monitor the trans temp if you do.

I have a stall speed of 3000rpm. So I picked a gear to give me that rpm at cruise speed. I make best engine torque somewhere between 3000-4000rpm too so the engine is more happy being up there.

Posted By: racealittle

Re: Gear Vendor Users? - 02/03/10 02:18 PM

Quote:

Yes but.

You don't want to be driving at less than the stall speed of the torque converter all the time. You might want to monitor the trans temp if you do.

I have a stall speed of 3000rpm. So I picked a gear to give me that rpm at cruise speed. I make best engine torque somewhere between 3000-4000rpm too so the engine is more happy being up there.

Thanks, you are the second to forwarn me on stall of the converter. I'm starting off with a factory 2400 from a small block. The previous cars it was used in showed it could perform and cruise well. Dropping to a 2.5 final may not put me exactly in the zone, but I don't want any less converter. The oddball motor I'm starting off with is a compromise that delivers a broad, fat torque curve and some fuel economy considering it's a 440.

I have much to accomplish over the next 2 months. This car has to see the road by spring.