Moparts
Has anyone tried the new Musclecar Oil? Z-Alt
Posted By: 340wedge
Has anyone tried the new Musclecar Oil? Z-Alt - 12/07/09 01:47 AM
Z-ALT™ Muscle Car Oil that is produced for older engines and contains Zinc.
formulated specifically for maxiumum proctection & performance of pre-1975 gasoline powered cars and trucks. Contains NO CHLORINE, TEFLON OR SOLVENTS. Z-ALT™ Muscle Car Oil is a must for flat tappet cam engines.
Mass marketed oil companies constantly re-engineer their products for the latest engine applications which has left older vehicle engines without the essential detergents and anti-wear agents they need to operate properly. With ever tightening EPA regulations and catalytic converter damage related to zinc, ZDDP has been drastically reduced in modern oils.
ZDDP is an essential friction reducing agent for all vehicles that utilize flat tappet camshafts. Use of an oil without ZDDP in flat tappet cam engines greatly increases the probability of premature wear, engine seizure and even complete failure. Z-ALT™ comes in old school vintage style cans with an easy pour top.
Posted By: Steve340
Re: Has anyone tried the new Musclecar Oil? Z-Alt - 12/07/09 04:14 AM
How much does it cost?
Posted By: 340wedge
Re: Has anyone tried the new Musclecar Oil? Z-Alt - 12/07/09 04:20 AM
It's about $47.00 for a set of 6 cans. It's being advertised by year one, some others here too, just curious if it is good stuff
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Has anyone tried the new Musclecar Oil? Z-Alt - 12/07/09 03:34 PM
Posted By: DennisH
Re: Has anyone tried the new Musclecar Oil? Z-Alt - 12/07/09 05:08 PM
No 10-40 advertised.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Has anyone tried the new Musclecar Oil? Z-Alt - 12/07/09 05:18 PM
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It's about $47.00 for a set of 6 cans. It's being advertised by year one, some others here too, just curious if it is good stuff
that's insane , but what I expected , ZDDP additive is cheaper .
Posted By: newvcode
My two cents - 12/19/09 06:08 PM
I refilled my 1971, bone stock 440 +6 with Z-Alt, (replacing Lucas semi synthetic with an added bottle of STP) and the difference is startling. How so? After about 10 miles of driving every click and noise is gone. The car sounds noticeably quieter and feels smoother in a way that is hard to describe.... the tone of the engine seems "heavier" "deeper." Not sure what exactly is happening here, but I've never experienced anything like this with a simple oil change. Crazy!
The difference is not in the least bit subtle... What does it all mean? I really don't know, but I can tell you that Ol' PLMQWZY seems very happy... smooth, quiet, cool......
Nice stuff. I would buy it again.
Ritchie
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I refilled my 1971, bone stock 440 +6 with Z-Alt, (replacing Lucas semi synthetic with an added bottle of STP) and the difference is startling. How so? After about 10 miles of driving every click and noise is gone. The car sounds noticeably quieter and feels smoother in a way that is hard to describe.... the tone of the engine seems "heavier" "deeper." Not sure what exactly is happening here, but I've never experienced anything like this with a simple oil change. Crazy!
The difference is not in the least bit subtle... What does it all mean? I really don't know, but I can tell you that Ol' PLMQWZY seems very happy... smooth, quiet, cool......
Nice stuff. I would buy it again.
Ritchie
What a shameless plug..lol.
Posted By: newvcode
Re: My two cents - 12/19/09 06:24 PM
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What a shameless plug..lol.
Yes, I'm a shamelessly happy customer, why is that a problem given the topic of this thread?
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: My two cents - 12/19/09 07:05 PM
Lucas is known to cause foaming and STP is goop that doesn't belong in a good engine. Any better outcome would likely have been seen from using any standard oil with ZDDP added or built into the oil.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: My two cents - 12/19/09 07:07 PM
And to my knowledge, ZAlt still won't post a Blackstone report for us to review and we know they monitor and/or free advertise on this board.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: My two cents - 12/19/09 11:00 PM
I've spent the last year studying oil, including the Z-alt product. Z-alt is a totally new, unique additive that mixes with any lubricant and through the use of molys in solution, adds up to 10 times the film strength to any oil it is added to.
Let me first claify what a Blackstone report is. Blackstone is one of several inexpensive independent oil testing facilities that will perform limited oil testing for about $700. Z-alt chose Harris Laboratories to perform much broader testing than Blackstone which included corrosion of various metals and seal hydration testing, in the neighborhood of $70,000. That 151 page report is fully disclosed at
www.z-alt.com for anyone to review.
Z-alt additive is the key ingredient in Z-alt's muscle car oil, giving it (from what I've seen) superior protection over existing oils. However, there is no "ONE OIL FITS ALL". Z-alt's muscle car oil is a retro (1975 and older) SG petroleum formula oil with the correct ZDDP and detergent pack for such vehicles, making it the perfect blend for a muscle car. Z-alt 10x oil booster will be available this spring to substantially improve any exisitng oil it is added to.
As far as any real world testing, Z-alt oil booster is currently being utilized in NHRA top fuel and an 8-second alcohol door slammer, both with excellent results over the course of the last year. It is also currently being tested by NASCAR teams and the United States Military.
Even though I now have a roller motor I almost ordered a 'six pack' of the stuff. The price isn't all that bad when you consider that a quality 'regular' oil can run around 4$ per quart (24$ for six) and a bottle of Lucas zinc additive runs about 13$ for a total of 37$. I was leary of what the shipping would add to the price. If (and/or when) it is in the stores locally I will probably give it a try. I put about 3,000 miles per year on my car cruising around and going to car shows so compared to the money I have into my car one 50$ oil change per year isn't that big of a deal. I'm just glad that there are companies out there willing to come up with products for a relatively small market !
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What a shameless plug..lol.
Yes, I'm a shamelessly happy customer, why is that a problem given the topic of this thread?
Not a problem at all, why? It was in good humor.
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I've spent the last year studying oil, including the Z-alt product. Z-alt is a totally new, unique additive that mixes with any lubricant and through the use of molys in solution, adds up to 10 times the film strength to any oil it is added to.
Let me first claify what a Blackstone report is. Blackstone is one of several inexpensive independent oil testing facilities that will perform limited oil testing for about $700. Z-alt chose Harris Laboratories to perform much broader testing than Blackstone which included corrosion of various metals and seal hydration testing, in the neighborhood of $70,000. That 151 page report is fully disclosed at www.z-alt.com for anyone to review.
Z-alt additive is the key ingredient in Z-alt's muscle car oil, giving it (from what I've seen) superior protection over existing oils. However, there is no "ONE OIL FITS ALL". Z-alt's muscle car oil is a retro (1975 and older) SG petroleum formula oil with the correct ZDDP and detergent pack for such vehicles, making it the perfect blend for a muscle car. Z-alt 10x oil booster will be available this spring to substantially improve any exisitng oil it is added to.
As far as any real world testing, Z-alt oil booster is currently being utilized in NHRA top fuel and an 8-second alcohol door slammer, both with excellent results over the course of the last year. It is also currently being tested by NASCAR teams and the United States Military.
Lots of claims, where's the proof. Are you a dealer? What are your creditials as an authority on the subject?
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 01:30 AM
The proof is in the Harris Laboratories independent testing report and can be found here:
Z-alt and then click on
Z-alt Independent Test Results .
You obviously have no personal experience with this product yet you immediately dismiss the opinion of others who do. May I ask what your credentials are on this subject? And are you an oil dealer?
Posted By: stumpy
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 01:30 AM
You're part owner in the company of course you're going to say that stuff. Whether it's true or not.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 01:37 AM
I am very well known in the hobby and would not be personally involved in any company that I didn't believe in their product 110%.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 01:47 AM
Follow the money.. A member for 11 months yet fully 25% of your posts so far to date relate to this thread...
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 02:16 AM
And your point would be.....?
Posted By: stumpy
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 02:23 AM
That the only reason you come here is to sell your stuff.
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The proof is in the Harris Laboratories independent testing report and can be found here: Z-alt and then click on Z-alt Independent Test Results .
You obviously have no personal experience with this product yet you immediately dismiss the opinion of others who do. May I ask what your credentials are on this subject? And are you an oil dealer?
An engine builder/machinist/racer and I'm sure many at Speedtalk would love for you to come over there and explain the benefits from using your oil.
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Follow the money.. A member for 11 months yet fully 25% of your posts so far to date relate to this thread...
I notice that also, thus the skepticism. Only a participant when it can make a sale.
Posted By: JoesMopar
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 02:34 AM
I just throw in 8qts of GTX 20w-50 and a bottle of Comp Cams break in lube. Problem solved. And for alot less than $47 for 6 cans (quarts?) that wouldn't even come close to filling my oil pan.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 03:29 AM
It's obvious that regardless of anything that I bring forth here, you are going to be skeptical of. So I suggest that if you have any question of how well the product works, you might want to give one of your fellow engine builders in your home state of NC, John Arruzza a call. For the last six months he has broken in all of his Hemis with the product, recommends it to all of his customers and runs Z-alt in his personal 1970 Daytona.
Posted By: JoesMopar
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 03:39 AM
1970 Daytona?
Unless your talking about a clone or one of the very few they actually built for Chrysler execs, you probably shouldn't be working for a Mopar magazine, which I am a subscriber too by the way and is a pretty good read.
Just did a search on speedtalk for his name...nothing. Speedtalk has a great deal of EMC participants discussing machining, building, OILS, damn near everything on there. If you can convince THEM you will be helping your product and have a great deal of networking possibilities and distribution.
Don't worry about convincing me. Convince them...I may just be impressed. I value their opinion as I am still relatively new to the industry compared to many many years that some there have in it. Plenty of new thought there as well including coming from the old timers there. They will hear you out. I warn you, though. Better have compelling evidence for them to just listen to you. They have heard claims from "snake oil" so many times.....
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 03:58 AM
Quote:
Follow the money.. A member for 11 months yet fully 25% of your posts so far to date relate to this thread...
Update, fully 33% of your posts so far to date relate to this thread...
Posted By: ademon
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 08:13 AM
anything on this oil at Bob the oil guy site?
Posted By: Spike
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 03:32 PM
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anything on this oil at Bob the oil guy site?
Looks like there is Z-alt oil discussion
Posted By: 72N96RR
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 04:27 PM
Maybe it should be advertised on more pages of MCG..I like paying for a magazine subscription and see the same ad on practically every other page..
Quoting Boss302fan "It is kind of strange that people are ripping this product before it is tested. A lot of collectors like me would like to have an oil that does work well with older original unmolested cars.
I would never use Redline or Gibbs oil in my unrestored cars. Actually those are good oils but I do have friends that have ruined engines because those oils broke down... Lets wait on Z-ALT until it is fully checked out before tearing negatively into it."
Quite amusing. Any multi-weight oil will break down as there are viscosity modifying chains that break down. I wonder what made him know for a fact the oils broke down. He mentioned unrestored engines...to break an oil down during op, that would be some serious type of road racing and improper viscosity selection/maintenance.
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Z-alt additive is the key ingredient in Z-alt's muscle car oil, giving it (from what I've seen) superior protection over existing oils. However, there is no "ONE OIL FITS ALL". Z-alt's muscle car oil is a retro (1975 and older) SG petroleum formula oil with the correct ZDDP and detergent pack for such vehicles, making it the perfect blend for a muscle car. Z-alt 10x oil booster will be available this spring to substantially improve any exisitng oil it is added to.
I have a question that's a bit off topic. I've read that the reason zinc has been removed from most motor oil is due to it harming catalytic converters. So, that in mind, would Z-Alt be safe to run in any of my vehicles and not just pre 1975 cars?
Posted By: hemi471
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 06:05 PM
I have looked at this post and the other one here on Moparts on this Z-alt oil. I dont think I would buy it, its priced to high for non-synthetic oil! I read the test report on Z-alt web site and dont see anything special.
The three things that I see on the test is
Four Ball wear test
Noack volatility
TBN
When I compare the Z-alt to the Amsoil I use
Its Amsoil hands down! And for about the same price Amsoil is synthetic.
Four ball wear test Z-Alt .64 Amsoil .35
Noack Volatility Z-Alt 6.2% Amsoil 7.6%
TBN Z-Alt 6.3 Amsoil 12.1
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 06:16 PM
Quote:
I have a question that's a bit off topic. I've read that the reason zinc has been removed from most motor oil is due to it harming catalytic converters. So, that in mind, would Z-Alt be safe to run in any of my vehicles and not just pre 1975 cars?
Z-alt stands for Zinc alternative and was in fact originally designed as an additive for current day vehicles, is EPA Green world-wide and is fantastic to add to any cat equipped vehicle. Z-alt muscle car oil is not, because it is an SG oil formulated with not only the perfect amount of ZDDP for older vehilces, but also with the OE recommended detergent pack blended in for such older vehicles rather than newer ones.
It is a misconception that you can throw more zinc into oil and make it perform better. There is a threshold where more zinc creates a hotter running engine because of the pressures it creates to push it through small passages. It's also a misconception that zinc is the protector of older motors. It is in fact phosphorous, (hence zddP) that protects the motor that must be kept into solution by the zinc.
Before Z-alt came out, I thought the best alternative was CompCams break in additive added to a quality petroleum oil. In my research, I have discoverd that the Comp product uses chlorine to achieve its results. Chlorine is very damaging to the inside of a motor if left in for any length of time. So while it may be a break in alternative, it is definitely not designed to run in a motor long term.
In response to those who are counting my posts on this subject as well as others, while I monitor moparts quite often, I try to only chime in on those subjects that I feel I can intelligently add productive discussion on.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 06:31 PM
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When I compare the Z-alt to the Amsoil I use, Its Amsoil hands down! And for about the same price Amsoil is synthetic.
Four ball wear test Z-Alt .64 Amsoil .35
Noack Volatility Z-Alt 6.2% Amsoil 7.6%
TBN Z-Alt 6.3 Amsoil 12.1
It is impossible to compare Amsoil oil one to one when viewing Z-alt's testing report because Z-alt's testing shown on-line is the additive alone, not the additive mixed in with an oil. So the comparison you are making would have to mean the customer would be running 100% additive with no oil! Which when you think about it, you would have to admit the figures are extremely impressive.
So what that means is when Z-alt additive is mixed into a quality oil it out performs the Amsoil product.
We have added Z-alt's additive to Amsoil and got fantastic results and would definitely consider it for certain applications, however for an older muscle car, I prefer a petroleum based oil with the correct additive additive pack to keep all gaskets and seals properly hydrated becuase my car sees limited use.
Posted By: newvcode
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 08:23 PM
I have an idea that might help this discussion, then again, maybe not
Everyone who is either an Amsoil rep, or a friend of an Amsoil rep... And everyone who is a friend of MCG or MCG himself should stop posting on this thread and let's see what happens.
If you have a dog or any part thereof, a foot, snout, claw... in this hunt, stand down. My bet is that it will get pretty quiet in here
Posted By: DennisH
Re: My two cents - 12/20/09 11:56 PM
Z-alt. Why no 10-40 offered if it is targeted at muscle?
Posted By: MLR426
Re: My two cents - 12/21/09 12:27 AM
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Follow the money.. A member for 11 months yet fully 25% of your posts so far to date relate to this thread...
Update, fully 33% of your posts so far to date relate to this thread...
Randy thanks for the updates on percentage of post,your behind. Appears MCG may have a stake in the company.
logan426
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Z-alt. Why no 10-40 offered if it is targeted at muscle?
A good point. If the engine was built with non excessive bearing, piston to cyl wall clearances, there's no need to run 20w-50. Man...you'll see that on road racers maybe...maybe. Sucking a couple hp too.
Needing an additive package means you are using the wrong oil. Valvoline's VR series oil has sufficient zinc dithiophosphate in it...and I wouldn't even run that if I had a roller cam in it.
Posted By: unclemike
Re: Has anyone tried the new Musclecar Oil? Z-Alt - 12/21/09 02:52 AM
I got a friend that belongs to the Studebaker collectors club he can get me the zinc additive at a reasonable price. Another way is to use diesel engine oil that has zinc.
If you have a roller motor any decent synthetic oil will do as long as your crankshaft seals are compatible. an old trick was to break your new motor in with dino oil then switch over after the seals swelled.
Posted By: CompSyn
Re: My two cents - 12/21/09 04:24 AM
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Quote:
When I compare the Z-alt to the Amsoil I use, Its Amsoil hands down! And for about the same price Amsoil is synthetic.
Four ball wear test Z-Alt .64 Amsoil .35
Noack Volatility Z-Alt 6.2% Amsoil 7.6%
TBN Z-Alt 6.3 Amsoil 12.1
It is impossible to compare Amsoil oil one to one when viewing Z-alt's testing report because Z-alt's testing shown on-line is the additive alone, not the additive mixed in with an oil. So the comparison you are making would have to mean the customer would be running 100% additive with no oil! Which when you think about it, you would have to admit the figures are extremely impressive.
The Z-Alt Certificate Of Analysis shows that the D-4172 Four Ball-Wear, mm (w/mineral oil) is 0.64
Does this mean the additive uses a mineral oil carrier or did they mix the additive with a mineral oil for testing? Does Z-Alt have MSDS sheets for all their products? Can't find them at their site.
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So what that means is when Z-alt additive is mixed into a quality oil it out performs the Amsoil product.
More anecdotal proof on top of the growing mountain of anecdotal proof.
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We have added Z-alt's additive to Amsoil and got fantastic results and would definitely consider it for certain applications, however for an older muscle car, I prefer a petroleum based oil with the correct additive additive pack to keep all gaskets and seals properly hydrated becuase my car sees limited use.
Amsoil utilizes a balanced additive package which includes Seal Conditioners that keep seals pliable much the same as any properly formulated motor oil on the market today. No need to perpetuate a tired myth that synthetic oils are bad on seals and cause leaks.
Posted By: newvcode
Re: My two cents - 12/21/09 03:47 PM
Interesting..... Looks like the Amsoil gang can't stop selling... Well, actually they're not selling at all, they're just knocking a new and apparently worrisome competitor, using their own sloganeering, talking points and apocrypha.
I'm no oil expert, but I do know marketing, sales and positioning... Top brands, brands with "significant differentiation" like Apple and Sony, rarely show product and never mention the competition, they sell what they have based on their status and product strength.
Lesser brands typically revert to comparisons and sometimes name calling, sowing seeds of doubt. This is because they really have nothing special on their own except price or place.....
For me, this is interesting to watch irrespective of the oil issues... it's classic marketing and position jostling - straight out of the textbooks.
I would be interested in hearing about what Amsoil is, not what everyone else isn't...
Ritchie
Posted By: JoesMopar
Re: My two cents - 12/21/09 04:15 PM
Personally, I think all you guys are idiots.
Who cares about Amsoil, Z-Alt whatever. spending $40-$50 just for oil on an oil change? You're all nuts or paranoid.
Castrol GTX, get it on sale for $11.50 5 qts VS $47 for 6 quarts.
Throw in a bottle of Comp Cams break in lube for $12... done.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: My two cents - 12/21/09 04:24 PM
It's worked for me for years.
Posted By: Twostick
Re: My two cents - 12/21/09 04:59 PM
Or just run your favorite flavor of 15W40 be it Rotella, Delvac, Delo etc which IIRC has 1200ppm or more of the zinc additive in it. They are available in full synthetic too and you would still get change from $47.
Kevin
Posted By: sparcy
Re: Has anyone tried the new Musclecar Oil? Z-Alt - 12/21/09 05:18 PM
lets have a fight!! how about cage fight to the death. lol . Im a locomotive engineer and about 45 years old and have tearing engines apart cents 1978, my newest is a 383 stroker broke in with gtx now has mobil 1 in it .In the spring I will try the z alt oil . I build my own street engines but my race car engine is a roller pro built and I use gtx in it. all my late model mopars have mobile 1 in them ,2005 hemi ram ,2007 magnum ,2007 pacifica .my 105 inch harley engine that I built my self I run bellray semi sync and slick 50 never had a problem with any engine wear or performance. when they break you make them bigger ,glad the saints lost
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Has anyone tried the new Musclecar Oil? Z-Alt - 12/21/09 05:40 PM
Quote:
lets have a fight!! how about cage fight to the death. lol . Im a locomotive engineer and about 45 years old and have tearing engines apart cents 1978, my newest is a 383 stroker broke in with gtx now has mobil 1 in it .In the spring I will try the z alt oil .
cents =
Since = Past tense
Sense = "sense of smell"
Sence = Buy a spell checker
Posted By: 62maxwgn
Re: Has anyone tried the new Musclecar Oil? Z-Alt - 12/21/09 11:55 PM
Quote:
Quote:
lets have a fight!! how about cage fight to the death. lol . Im a locomotive engineer and about 45 years old and have tearing engines apart cents 1978, my newest is a 383 stroker broke in with gtx now has mobil 1 in it .In the spring I will try the z alt oil .
cents =
Since = Past tense
Sense = "sense of smell"
Sence = Buy a spell checker
Now Scott, 
and type on here at the same time.