Moparts
340 wouldn't seat to 833
Posted By: jahsh
340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 04:00 PM
Can somebody help with recommendations for installing an LA onto a 833?
We sent 3 hours yesterday and could only get it about 1/2 from being seated fully. We were putting so much force without it going in, that we were worried something was wrong - it was also then dark outside. Pulled it back out and everything seems fine - no gnarled teeth on either side. This engine and tranny has even been together before.
Is it really just that difficult? Is it easier to just pull the tranny and install them together?
Posted By: buildanother
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 04:04 PM
It sometimes helps if you disengage clutch with prybar etc, if it's that close to going in, just incase the clutch is not quite centered.
Posted By: Daty Rogers
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 04:06 PM
Sounds like your clutch/pressure plate isn't aligned properly. Try loosening the clutch a bit then once it's all together retighten it back down. Personally I find it much easier to install the engine/tranny outside then slide them in as one unit.
-Daty
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 05:03 PM
You didn't put a wad of grease in the pilot bushing did you?,......that will cause a static lock of preventing the input shaft from going all the way in also, or might "hydraulically" push the bushing out of the crank bore as well?
Posted By: 69L78Nova
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 05:10 PM
Are you running a stock bell or a shield? I had a Lakewood that was about an inch off until it was dialed in
Posted By: jahsh
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 05:51 PM
Just to answer some questions:
1) We used the clutch alignment tool and also checked the alignment after re-pulling the motor. Alignment appears to be right on.
2) Only a small amount of grease on the bushing - checked and the bushing is still where it needs to be.
3) Standard aluminum bellhousing, not a Lakewood.
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 06:18 PM
Make sure that the input shaft fits into the pilot bushing and also measure the length of the input shaft tip and the depth of the pilot and hub on the crankshaft. have seeninstances where the input shaft tip had to be trimmed from butting up against the crankshaft and not allowing the transmission to fit up to the belhousing.
Posted By: Dave Watt
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 06:18 PM
Check the diameter of the input bearing retainer compared to the diameter of the bellhousing bore for the retainer. There are two different size retainers if I remember correctly.
Posted By: jahsh
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 06:35 PM
Quote:
Check the diameter of the input bearing retainer compared to the diameter of the bellhousing bore for the retainer. There are two different size retainers if I remember correctly.
Thanks again to all the replies....
Diameters have been checked, and it's the same retainer and input shaft as what worked just fine when the motor was previously installed.
It is a new clutch (McCloud), but we made sure to check the teath on the plate against the input shaft before we installed the clutch on the flywheel - fit like a champ.
Posted By: 6T6Cuda
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 06:36 PM
Quote:
Make sure that the input shaft fits into the pilot bushing and also measure the length of the input shaft tip and the depth of the pilot and hub on the crankshaft. have seeninstances where the input shaft tip had to be trimmed from butting up against the crankshaft and not allowing the transmission to fit up to the belhousing.
Check this, some autos were not drilled out all the way...
Posted By: fastnos
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 07:12 PM
We sent 3 hours yesterday and could only get it about 1/2 from being seated fully. We were putting so much force without it going in, that we were worried something was wrong - it was also then dark outside. Pulled it back out and everything seems fine - no gnarled teeth on either side. This engine and tranny has even been together before.
Is it really just that difficult? Is it easier to just pull the tranny and install them together?
Since you said you've had this engine and trans together before, I can only think of 2 things that might help.
1) You say with a clutch aligning tool it is right? Try putting it back in and moving the clutch fork in and out while moving the back of the tool, or old input shaft. It might be off just enough that with the weight on the back of the trans, it's just a few mm's off-enough to give you fits!
2) When I try to stuff a A-833 in, I get under neath with my knees and both hands on the trans, pushing and wiggling it forward, even turning it clockwise and counter-clockwise while pushing it towards the front of the vehicle. I alway have it locked in 1st gear while wiggling it. It's a heavy beast, so supporting it with both knees and hands helps it get stuffed in while wiggling it.
One other thing, what new parts (besides the clutch plate) did you use since the last time the engine and trans was together?
Posted By: jahsh
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 07:52 PM
Quote:
One other thing, what new parts (besides the clutch plate) did you use since the last time the engine and trans was together?
Just a new clutch. Also putting a Hyd. TOB in, but double checked when the engine was attempted to go it, nothing was hitting that. Both the input shaft and the bearing are both the same as what was before.
Thanks for the other two tips. In the end, I think it's going to be a question of - try it again, or pull the tranny and install together.
Posted By: 64dodge572
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 08:20 PM
Quote:
Quote:
One other thing, what new parts (besides the clutch plate) did you use since the last time the engine and trans was together?
Just a new clutch. Also putting a Hyd. TOB in, but double checked when the engine was attempted to go it, nothing was hitting that. Both the input shaft and the bearing are both the same as what was before.
Thanks for the other two tips. In the end, I think it's going to be a question of - try it again, or pull the tranny and install together.
Is there enough room between the fingers on the pressure plate and the bearing retainer? Sounds to me like this could be the problem.
Posted By: pishta
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 08:28 PM
I just pulled a 318/904 out of a 69 Cuda together and wondered WHY I never did this as a unit until today. Easy as pie, remove the radiator and cross member and grab it between the carb and trans for a somewhat balanced assy. I have always done it the "hard" way and this is WAY easier. Makes mating the 2 on the floor very easy too.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 08:34 PM
Quote:
It sometimes helps if you disengage clutch with prybar etc, if it's that close to going in, just incase the clutch is not quite centered.
I second this , just because you THINK it's aligned properly it still may not be , I've done this many times before . Also it might be easier to install some long 7/16 bolts with the heads cut off in the top two trans mounting holes to help guide it straight in .
Posted By: Pntastar69
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 09:04 PM
Quote:
Also it might be easier to install some long 7/16 bolts with the heads cut off in the top two trans mounting holes to help guide it straight in .
Had to do that w/mine, no issues since.
Posted By: 70440+6bbl
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 09:16 PM
If you used one of those plastic input shaft tools, that is more than likely the issue... I used one last year and I about lost my mind trying to slide the 18-spline trans back in with a fresh Mcleod clutch! I ended up borrowing a friend's NOS input shaft and it worked like a charm
Posted By: Scatpak
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 10:47 PM
Also you may want to check to make sure old pilot bushing isn't still on the output shaft of the tranny. Did you replace the pilot bushing ? Do you remember seeing the old one ? I have seen that a couple times. And it won't look real obvious. Tap it with a punch, if it marks, I'd say the bushing is still on the shaft. Good luck.
Posted By: jahsh
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 11:27 PM
Quote:
Also you may want to check to make sure old pilot bushing isn't still on the output shaft of the tranny. Did you replace the pilot bushing ? Do you remember seeing the old one ? I have seen that a couple times. And it won't look real obvious. Tap it with a punch, if it marks, I'd say the bushing is still on the shaft. Good luck.
Good thought, but unfortunately not the case - my guess is that the hyd TOB wouldn't even slide onto the output shaft if the bearing got dislodged from the engine and stuck onto the shaft.
A slightly off alignment could still be the issue, but that plastic alignment tool sure fits in there perfectly.
Posted By: torkrules
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 11:30 PM
Quote:
Quote:
It sometimes helps if you disengage clutch with prybar etc, if it's that close to going in, just incase the clutch is not quite centered.
I second this , just because you THINK it's aligned properly it still may not be , I've done this many times before . Also it might be easier to install some long 7/16 bolts with the heads cut off in the top two trans mounting holes to help guide it straight in .
I third this. Happened to me. Once I loosened the pressure plate bolts slightly it slid right in.
Posted By: cjs69mope
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/02/09 11:40 PM
Hey Bud i have serviced many manual trans clutches on import and mustangs ,and mopars i have found even with the correct alignment tool they can be stuborn to get seated the way i do it and it works 99.9% of the time if you have checked everything else as it seams you have .
Have a helper rotate the engine from the front crank bolt with a ratchet while you push the trans in and wigle it up and down verticaly as you are pushing . also two home made studs installed in the bell housing to trans will help big time with this process . cj
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/03/09 03:17 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Also you may want to check to make sure old pilot bushing isn't still on the output shaft of the tranny. Did you replace the pilot bushing ? Do you remember seeing the old one ? I have seen that a couple times. And it won't look real obvious. Tap it with a punch, if it marks, I'd say the bushing is still on the shaft. Good luck.
Good thought, but unfortunately not the case - my guess is that the hyd TOB wouldn't even slide onto the output shaft if the bearing got dislodged from the engine and stuck onto the shaft.
A slightly off alignment could still be the issue, but that plastic alignment tool sure fits in there perfectly.
just realized you have a HYD. throwout bearing , you are screwed , can't slightly disengage the clutch wit ha prybar ...
And again , just beacuse that little plastic tool fits in there does not mean it's perfectly aligned , especially if the bellhousing is a little off center .
Posted By: rhad
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/03/09 03:37 AM
ANY chance you have the disc in backwards?,it does happen
Posted By: jahsh
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/03/09 04:59 PM
Quote:
ANY chance you have the disc in backwards?,it does happen
McCloud is good enough to put a sticker to make sure you don't do that - also made sure that the sticker wasn't put on wrong. =)
Posted By: LAR_414
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/03/09 05:14 PM
I had a bunch of trouble with mine at first. But mine is a McLeod dual disc RST version, and not much room to put the trans in an A body. Anyways, I used the plastic alignment tool and thought all was well. I was very careful to get it nice and centered, as best I could tell.
Couldn't get the trans in at all....same thing as you have noticed.
I ended up putting a spare input shaft that my dad had, in there. Result,...not lined up good enough. You could tell that because the actual direct gear on that input shaft was off center to the bellhousing center.
Used the input shaft to re align the clutch and it worked perfect.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/03/09 05:18 PM
Well with a little more info/facts as to what you have, and have changed out,....adding a hyd. throwout bearing, do you know what your "stack"(hyd TOB) assy height is compressed and static?, and what is required for your application,....most hyd TOB assys, unless designed for your application, usually need to be shimmed for location, so that they don't cause interference fit problems, or lack of proper disengagement,.....who's hyd set up are you using?....is it a true hyd TOB?, or are you using a slave cyl. to activate the mechanical fork?.......
Posted By: GomangoCuda
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/03/09 05:19 PM
Quote:
Is it easier to just pull the tranny and install them together?
Are you saying that the trans is in the car and you are trying to drop in the engine and mate up with the trans? If so then much of the advise given so far is meaningless. It is very difficult to do this way because you can't wiggle and rotate the trans. I would just pull out the trans and mount it to the bellhousing outside the car and drop it all in at once.
Posted By: Paul_B
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/03/09 09:04 PM
I've found the plastic tool only gets you close. loosen the pressure plate to flywheel bolts (all of them) with the transmission almost in place. This was all I've ever needed to do.
I also made some installation bolts by cutting the head off some shoulder bolts to guide/support the tranny during installation.
Posted By: jahsh
Re: 340 wouldn't seat to 833 - 12/03/09 10:45 PM
IT'S IN!! Thanks to all for the help. Can't say I did anything other than try harder and have a few more hefty guys pushing.
Tomorrow...install the TTIs.