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cam suggestions for 440
Posted By: Dougsmopars
cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 12:02 AM
I bought this 68 GTX with 440 automatic. It has a 750 double pumper which i'm going to replace with an Edelbrock 800 Thunder series. It has a racer brown cam in it of unknown specs. Very lumpy idle. Very poor vacuum. Way too much cam. Motor was rebuilt about 5000 miles ago according to previous owner. Has Torker intake Mopar ignition with orange box and headers. I'm looking for a good cam that will be very torque on bottom end. Something will make plenty of power from around 1500 to 5500 RPM. Would like to be able to put the power breaks back in the car. I made this mistake before installing to big a cam for a basically stock motor. I put a mopar 509 purple shaft in my Road Runner with 440 six pack 4 speed. It made less power then with stock cam. Any of you guy's have any suggestions? I was looking at some of the Lunati VOODO cams? Any thoughts? I want to keep it hydraulic.
Posted By: landon1
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 12:05 AM
i looked at the voodoo cams, but i don't think too many people are running them in 440s - don't hear too much about them anyhow. i went with Comp XE 268. power in the same range you're looking for (basic street range). mine is not installed (still waiting on my block at the machine shop).
Posted By: cudamank
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 12:08 AM
I run the Voodoo 60303, 440, .030 over, 10.5, 3400 stall, performer intake, 750 speed demon nice idle, still plenty of vacuum for my brakes.
Posted By: Dougsmopars
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 12:42 AM
is this the one your useing? Thyis is the one i was looking at. LUN-60303LK
Cam Style Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range 1,800-6,200
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift 226
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift 234
Duration at 050 inch Lift 226 int./234 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration 268
Advertised Exhaust Duration 276
Advertised Duration 268 int./276 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.494 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.513 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.494 int./0.513 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees) 110
Camshaft Gear Attachment 3-bolt
Posted By: Dougsmopars
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 12:52 AM
i would say the cam in the motor now is over 300 duration with a lot of overlap. It is extremely lumpy at idle and doesn't even out till around 2000- 2300 RPM. Way to much cam for the motor.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 01:02 AM
I bought the lunati voodoo 60303 cam for mine but haven't installed it yet. Should be a decent cam, just a small step more milder than the comp xe275hl which a lot of people have run.
Posted By: GreenBlurr
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 01:29 AM
Quote:
I bought this 68 GTX with 440 automatic. It has a 750 double pumper which i'm going to replace with an Edelbrock 800 Thunder series. It has a racer brown cam in it of unknown specs. Very lumpy idle. Very poor vacuum. Way too much cam. Motor was rebuilt about 5000 miles ago according to previous owner. Has Torker intake Mopar ignition with orange box and headers. I'm looking for a good cam that will be very torque on bottom end. Something will make plenty of power from around 1500 to 5500 RPM. Would like to be able to put the power breaks back in the car. I made this mistake before installing to big a cam for a basically stock motor. I put a mopar 509 purple shaft in my Road Runner with 440 six pack 4 speed. It made less power then with stock cam. Any of you guy's have any suggestions? I was looking at some of the Lunati VOODO cams? Any thoughts? I want to keep it hydraulic.
You could start by NOT undercarbing your 440 like too many people on here seem to do. A holley 750 is nowhere near enough for that motor with that kind of cam....especially if it still has the same jetting it came with out of the box. And an edelbrock 800 will not be a step in the right direction either. Sure, they have good just off idle response in their accelerator shot, but they are lean as heck form there out becuase they do not hold any danged fuel.
You need a holley 850 double pumper for that motor that is properly jetted and fitted with squirters and eccelerator pump cams to compliment said jetting.
You will not recognize the motor in the world of difference in its runability and performance.
Posted By: 71TA
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 01:36 AM
I went with the Mopar MP528 solid in my 470. GREAT CAM. Idles well. TONS of torque.
As far as "correct carbs". What I've learned is it's a TOTAL guesssing game without an LM1 air fuel meter. With one of those you can make a Dominator or a carm off a lawn mower work well.
Posted By: cudamank
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 01:38 AM
Quote:
is this the one your useing? Thyis is the one i was looking at. LUN-60303LK
Cam Style Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range 1,800-6,200
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift 226
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift 234
Duration at 050 inch Lift 226 int./234 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration 268
Advertised Exhaust Duration 276
Advertised Duration 268 int./276 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.494 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.513 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.494 int./0.513 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees) 110
Camshaft Gear Attachment 3-bolt
That is the one. I really like it. I'll have to take audio of it and post it.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 01:52 AM
Looking for something to make low end torque, good idle, drivability,.....wanting to stay Hyd,
I'd pick something in the .470-.480 lift range with a total duration of no more than 260-270 based on your exsisting carb/intake and headers
might want to lose that Torker intake for a more "streetable" factory style DP
Cam manufacturer is your choice........
Posted By: therocks
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 02:00 AM
For a decent cam for a driver I had luck with Summits big cam kit.Racy type idle pulls strong good vacuum and all around good for a streeter.One is still running in a 383 after 20 years.Id run a Holley Street Dominator with an 850 Holley.Rocky
Posted By: Dougsmopars
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 02:06 AM
Don't get me wrong on the idle. I love a lumpy cam but the one in the motor now is just way too much. At 15 to 1800 RPM it's still rumpty rump. Car idle's like a pro stock. I'm guessing the cam is around 525 lift and over 300 duration. I'm not looking for a smooth idle like grand pa's car. I want a good tire frier that i can still have the power brake's.
Posted By: Dougsmopars
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 02:12 AM
]
You could start by NOT undercarbing your 440 like too many people on here seem to do. A holley 750 is nowhere near enough for that motor with that kind of cam....especially if it still has the same jetting it came with out of the box. And an edelbrock 800 will not be a step in the right direction either. Sure, they have good just off idle response in their accelerator shot, but they are lean as heck form there out becuase they do not hold any danged fuel.
You need a holley 850 double pumper for that motor that is properly jetted and fitted with squirters and eccelerator pump cams to compliment said jetting.
You will not recognize the motor in the world of difference in its runability and performance.
I'm sure most racer's love there Holley carbs. I personally hate them. I've never had one that you weren't constantly tweeking. Change in temp, air presure, a fly landing on the windsheild. Anything seems to change there tune. I'm not building a racer. I'm a Saturday night red light to red light guy. I like a good tire frier. I don't want to spend 20 minuites every time i want to take the car out to tweak the carb.
Posted By: landon1
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 02:16 AM
i've had 2 holleys...a vacuum secondary and a mechanical (double pumper)....VS is not my favorite, didn't like it at all...but the DP was basically a "bolt on" part with no tweaking other than adjusting the idle speed. considered edelbrock, but have no experience with them, so i just stuck to what i know a little bit about
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 03:08 AM
I'm sure most racer's love there Holley carbs. I personally hate them. I've never had one that you weren't constantly tweeking. Change in temp, air presure, a fly landing on the windsheild. Anything seems to change there tune. I don't want to spend 20 minuites every time i want to take the car out to tweak the carb.
I don't know Doug,....Holleys are perhaps the easiest carbs to tune, and stay tuned, while I personaly put a SIX PAK on everything,.....I've had my share of Carters, AFB, AVS, WCFB, Thermoquads, Eldebricks, Qjets, Predators, etc, over the decades,....Holleys IMHO are superior,.....but any fuel system, if "treated" wrong, can be a problem, tune/reliability wise......
Posted By: GreenBlurr
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 03:18 AM
Quote:
I'm sure most racer's love there Holley carbs. I personally hate them. I've never had one that you weren't constantly tweeking. Change in temp, air presure, a fly landing on the windsheild. Anything seems to change there tune. I don't want to spend 20 minuites every time i want to take the car out to tweak the carb.
I don't know Doug,....Holleys are perhaps the easiest carbs to tune, and stay tuned, while I personaly put a SIX PAK on everything,.....I've had my share of Carters, AFB, AVS, WCFB, Thermoquads, Eldebricks, Qjets, Predators, etc, over the decades,....Holleys IMHO are superior,.....but any fuel system, if "treated" wrong, can be a problem, tune/reliability wise......
Yeah, if you are having to tinker with your holley everytime you drive the car due to the car's not not running quite right or running different all of the time, then you have manifold vacuum leaks, and/or timing issues.
Every holley I have ever built for myself or anyone else has done well in all seasons, once it is jetted into an acceptable zone that is not too rich when its warm and dry out, and does not run too lean when its cold and wet out. Adequate timing is also the partner of the carb when you get it where you need it.
Just take a step back and don't imagine holleys or the science behind them as so complicated. It's actually very simple and has a reliable method to it.
Posted By: 440newport
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 04:55 AM
Crower 271HDP
222/234 @ .050, 271/284, .486/.496
Posted By: black64
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/28/09 05:39 PM
lunati 603 cam
Quote:
Crower 271HDP
222/234 @ .050, 271/284, .486/.496
BINGO !!! Thats a GREAT CAM for a street/ strip car and check out the 112 LSA !! I have the one step hotter Crower 275 HDP in my 4000+LB 71 Charger R/T and I use a STOCK (1800 STALL)converter and 3.55 rear for 12.9 @109 mph with a 73 Thermoquad ! I used the 271 HDP in my SIXPACK Challenger R/T and that car should run min 12s.
You can get the cam from Summit. 
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/29/09 01:24 PM
You could start by NOT undercarbing your 440 like too many people on here seem to do. A holley 750 is nowhere near enough for that motor with that kind of cam....especially if it still has the same jetting it came with out of the box. And an edelbrock 800 will not be a step in the right direction either. Sure, they have good just off idle response in their accelerator shot, but they are lean as heck form there out becuase they do not hold any danged fuel.
You need a holley 850 double pumper for that motor that is properly jetted and fitted with squirters and eccelerator pump cams to compliment said jetting.
You will not recognize the motor in the world of difference in its runability and performance.
well a 750DP is a fine carb for a mild 440. What killed his 509 is probably lack of gear and stall. The thundr 800 is not as good as the 750DP. Or compression or all of the above. That said if you are going to buy a new carb the 850 would be better. As far as cam what gears are you running and what stall? That VooDoo is going to like at least a 2800 stall and some 3.91's to work well.
Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/29/09 11:01 PM
Here's my two cents worth........
I just went through the same dilemna, picking a cam for a mild car... My Jensen is 3500ish pounds with highway gears.
It'a a 440 .030 over with a measured 9.35 to 1 compression (now), very mildly ported heads, headers, and I went with two Edelbrock 500s on an Edelbrock CH28 lowrise intake.
I really thought about both versions of the MP 484 cam, but ended up going with the Comp Cams 270H. I'll have it running in the next little while and post the actual driving impressions, but I researched as much as I could and I think it's what I wanted. I hope it works out...
Posted By: Dougsmopars
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/29/09 11:22 PM
The 509 was in a 4 speed car with 3;91's Car was quicker with the stock 440 cam. I should have listened to the local speed shop. They build some pretty quick Mopars. He told me that 509 was too much for a basicly stock 440 that i wouldn't be happy. He was right
Posted By: Dougsmopars
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/29/09 11:23 PM
The car i'm looking to change the cam in is automatic. 2800 stall and 3;55's
Posted By: Dougsmopars
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/29/09 11:25 PM
And forget all about the Holley. It ain't happening. I hate them i hate them i hate them.
Posted By: landon1
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/29/09 11:26 PM
probably because it would bleed off too much compression...and you don't start making power til 3K or so...i wanted to get the 509 when i was informed only by chevy guys when i was 16 on what to do with mine...glad i waited and did my research.
i really can't wait to get mine back together. the XE268 is pretty popular as it uses stock converter and is still supposed to have a bit of a lumpy idle.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/30/09 11:05 AM
Quote:
And forget all about the Holley. It ain't happening. I hate them i hate them i hate them.
then I guess you don't want the best out of your engine. When I was young I hated them to, but after you mess w/ them and READING how they work they are really easy to tune. and MUCH more tunable than the eddy or cater carbs. a 750DP is much more carb than the 800 thunder. Before you give up on the Holley read about it.
Posted By: Dougsmopars
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/30/09 11:53 AM
When i was young i hated Holley carbs. 35 years later i still hate Holley carbs. If they were so great and so dependable then tell me why through out the muscle car era very few cars came out of the factory with a Holley?
Posted By: patrick
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/30/09 11:56 AM
Quote:
is this the one your useing? Thyis is the one i was looking at. LUN-60303LK
Cam Style Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range 1,800-6,200
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift 226
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift 234
Duration at 050 inch Lift 226 int./234 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration 268
Advertised Exhaust Duration 276
Advertised Duration 268 int./276 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.494 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.513 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.494 int./0.513 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees) 110
Camshaft Gear Attachment 3-bolt
that's the one I'd go with, just make sure your springs can handle the lift. another good choice would be an Engle 2356-H. it's 272 adv, 224@.050, .504" lift, same lobe intake and exhaust.
Posted By: Dougsmopars
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/30/09 12:04 PM
I'll check spring pressure but should be fine. Cam in car now is big lift long duration and a lot of overlap. Way to much cam for a basically stock motor. It doesn't seem to come alive till around 4000 RPM. Cam specs are unknown. Previous owner would only tell me it's a racer brown cam. Probly be a good cam if you were running 4;57 gears. But not good in the street with 3;55's
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/30/09 01:00 PM
Quote:
When i was young i hated Holley carbs. 35 years later i still hate Holley carbs. If they were so great and so dependable then tell me why through out the muscle car era very few cars came out of the factory with a Holley?
some did as a matter of fact all 6 pack cars had them and I thing 383 4 speed cars came w/ them. If the carter design is so great why is it NASCAR and NHRA Pro-stock guys use the holley design?
Carters were cheaper than Holley's I'm guessing is the main reason.
Posted By: landon1
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/30/09 07:03 PM
lots of fords have holleys...2 and 4 barrels
Posted By: Dougsmopars
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/30/09 08:16 PM
enough with the carbs. THE CAR IS NOT GETTING A HOLLEY !!!!!! End of story. Post was a question on cam choise not carbs.
Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/30/09 08:23 PM
Are you leaning towards a certain group of cams, or?
I was looking at the Comp 268 dual patterns, the MP 484 (two different grinds), the 270H Comp which I went with and a few others...
The 270H has only .470" lift but I think it should be a good cam for a street/strip car that sees more street than strip, and my highway-ish gears and reasonably heavy weight factored in my decision as well my 9.35 to 1 compression..
Are you more a street cruising kinda guy with the occassional pounding, highway driver, or..?
Posted By: 2boltmain
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/30/09 08:35 PM
Crane makes a max velocity grind. Its old school but the cam and lifters are under $150. They have a 228 deg @.050 with 480 lift. Not a mopar spec grind but many 440s back in the day ran this type of cam with great results.
Posted By: landon1
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/30/09 08:44 PM
Comp XE 268 specs:
268/280
224/230 @ .050
.477/.480 lift
1600-5800 power range
Posted By: mark7171
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/30/09 09:14 PM
Quote:
Quote:
And they are really easy to tune. and MUCH more tunable than the eddy or cater carbs. a 750DP is much more carb than the 800 thunder. Before you give up on the Holley read about it.
THe AVS 800 carbs are awesome on the streets. A Thunder 800 avs will provide more than enough on a 440 as a bolt on. The secondaries are mechanical, makes a 4 speed car feel like its performing better.
The 850 DP won't be happy with the higher/lower numerical gearing 3 series. 850 Will dump too much fuel for a mild cam. with no converter slipping it can be more sensitive to DP bog. Hollies also seem to like single plane manifolds. THE AFB/s , quads, and q jets seem to like dual planes.
Owning about every carb, here there is a luxury to try them out and setup what works best. And for what purpose. 600-850 edelbrock AFB/AVS/Holley/demon.
A hughes 2330 or 3310 hyd cam are fine , 223-230 duration .050 and .480-530 lift. If you have the compression at least around 9 to 1.
Performer dual plane/ or weiand action + with a AVS should be killer. With a 3.23 gear and 4 speed all the downshifts and up shifts will be at perfect times for spirited driving.
Keep the mechanical seconaries with the 4 speed. Just don't squirt as much fuel. It don't have a 3000 stall 850DP's will dump too much.
Posted By: Dougsmopars
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 06/30/09 09:57 PM
cars an automatic. stall unknown. I'll be putting in a 25 to 2800 when i do the tranny. Gears are 3;55 or 3;91. I'll check tomorrow to know for sure.No tach in the car right now and speedo bounces to much to know for sure the actual speed. Have another cluster that was restored on the way with calibrated VDO tach installed. Car is not going to be raced. I'm just looking to get some good red light to red light thrills. Looking to make plenty of low end torque. A real good tire fryer
Posted By: patrick
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 07/01/09 11:33 AM
if you want a torquey stoplight to stoplight motor, keep the cam in the
224-230@.050 range (spec wise, I think I like the voodoo 60303), and I'd ditch the torker for an edelbrock RPM intake.
Posted By: MikeyT
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 07/01/09 03:08 PM
My car is very similar to yours in size and set up. I actually think you might be closer then you think. I would keep the carb you have, I had a buddy help me set up my 770 Holley street avenger and its jetted up some, but sticks rock solid for as long as I've put it on. I had to step up one jet size to make it perfect.
It sounds like a 750 double pumper is plenty of carb for your build. Streetwize sells a online book here, that talks a lot about street car performance.
Streetwize, in his book even claims that lots of guys with 440's get great performance using even a smaller 650 Holley DP, depending on the other factors in the build. Yet, for a build like yours, you would be hardpressed to need anything above a 750 dp.
Here is my suggestion from both the dyno and butt dyno. I run a Comp XE268, that I had degreed.
It runs strong and gives a deceptive, but nice idle with good vaccum for my power brakes. It also has a very workable power band
Mike
Posted By: dwbiggs
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 07/01/09 05:57 PM
Quote:
enough with the carbs. THE CAR IS NOT GETTING A HOLLEY !!!!!! End of story. Post was a question on cam choise not carbs.
Chicken!!!! 
Posted By: bb74swngr
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 07/01/09 07:55 PM
Swinger, 440, Lunati 303(1.6), 2X600cfm Eddys, great idle, great vacuum, awesome torque to 5500. Just a fun combo imo.
Russ:)
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: cam suggestions for 440 - 07/01/09 09:42 PM
Quote:
Quote:
enough with the carbs. THE CAR IS NOT GETTING A HOLLEY !!!!!! End of story. Post was a question on cam choise not carbs.
Chicken!!!!
If you are going to a stock type carb, for the stock type performance, why not go to the junkyard and get a stock cam? You will be able to spin the wheels and you could almost weld the hood shut.
Just don't race the guy you sold the old cam and carb to.