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EBody Fuel Gage Question

Posted By: 70VERT

EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/22/09 10:27 PM

Just put new 3/8"" sending unit in my 70 Challenger 440RT. Have it out of the tank and checking it out--can only get 1/2 tank reading on gage when float is fully extended. When I ground out the blue wire, I get full gage deflection. I have a good ground on the sending unit. Any suggestions? I hate to rip into the dash (cuz I just put it all back together ) Any suggestions on what my options would be will be appreciated
Posted By: Hrtbkr

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/22/09 10:38 PM

If you get full deflection when you ground the blue wire, then your gage and wiring are good. Some of the re-pop sending units are not of the best quality
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/22/09 11:22 PM

yeah I know what you mean but this is the 2nd unit I've installed and both do the same thing (actually I am getting a little more deflection form the one I have in there now)
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/23/09 12:16 AM

what I was kinda wondering if there isn't some way to get the gage to read full scale with the current signal from the sending unit?? Seems I remember some post about adding a resistor or something. Just spent 120 bucks for the unit from mancini and I'm kinda stuck
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/23/09 03:15 AM

As said from the sending unit forward you are fine. I would run a long jumper wire w alligator clips from the sending unit ground to batt negative & make sure you have a complete circuit.
Posted By: Hrtbkr

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/23/09 03:16 AM

I wired a reostat in parallel with my sending unit. More resistance=less voltage. It's still not perfect but it's usable
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/23/09 07:59 PM

where would I install the reostat? Does gage function normally with it? Thanks
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/23/09 08:29 PM

I wouldn't think an added rheostat would fix that much error(gauge shows 1/2 tank @ full deflection). If the gauge is grounded well I'd think it is the wrong unit
Posted By: AARCONV

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/23/09 08:56 PM

u can check with an ohm meter for the range..
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/24/09 02:00 AM

OK--I ran a solid wire from the neg battery terminal to the sending unit---when I touch it to blue wire get full gage deflection, when hooked up to sending unit with blue wire on sending unit terminal, get 1/2 deflection on gage. This is a 3/8" sending unit with a rally gage. I get the same result with 2 different sending units. What am I missing here??????
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/24/09 02:13 AM

With the long jumper wire from the batt neg post clip it to the flat metal on the sending unit to make SURE the sending unit has a good ground and that a poor ground is not causing this malfunction then with the sending unit hot lead from the front plugged into the nub on the sending unit raise the float & see what you get on the gas gauge.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/24/09 02:13 AM

will your ballist resistor affect your signal?Are you getting a good chassie ground?
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/24/09 02:19 AM

Yes--I ran a ground wire directly from the neg terminal of the battery to the sending unit to be sure I had a good ground connection
Posted By: denfireguy

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/24/09 02:26 AM

Quote:

OK--I ran a solid wire from the neg battery terminal to the sending unit---when I touch it to blue wire get full gage deflection, when hooked up to sending unit with blue wire on sending unit terminal, get 1/2 deflection on gage. This is a 3/8" sending unit with a rally gage. I get the same result with 2 different sending units. What am I missing here??????




Do you have an ohm meter?
The sender is just a rheostat that is adjusted by the float level. If the float is all the way up, the resistance should be very low, just a few ohms, just like when you short it out with ground wire. Disconnect the sender from the circuit and measure the resistance from the blue wire to frame ground. No voltage should be present or it will mess up your meter.
It is unlikely that two senders are bad but it also is not impossible. If you have the original, measure it just for kicks too.
Craig
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/24/09 02:34 AM

Craig--I want to make sure I have this right---are you saying measure teh resistance from the blue wire itself to ground or from the sending unit's stud (where blue wire attaches) to ground? What kind of reading should I be looking for?
\
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/24/09 03:12 AM

Quote:

measure teh resistance from the sending unit's stud (where blue wire attaches) to ground? What kind of reading should I be looking for?


nothing connected to the sending unit measure ohms from the stud to the round flat metal on the sending unit(ground) iirc 10 and 80 ohms with the arm "up" and "down". I might be off on the 2 figures but post what you get then disconnect the ohmmeter and plug in the blue lead to the stud and with the circular metal flat grounded directly to the battery neg what does that give you on the gas gauge w key on & you moving the arm thru its travel?
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/24/09 08:54 PM

OK--here's the scoop with my "cheapo" voltometer---with sender disconnected, moving the arm from up to down get about 14-55ohms. With blue wire connected and battery ground on sending unit gage goes form empty to 1/2 full with float travel from up to down. I get about the same results with the other sending unit in both cases. Whaddya think?
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/24/09 10:42 PM

oh yeah--just for info-- I am using a Year One reproduction wiring harness also (not sure that this matters but thought I'd mention)
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/24/09 10:46 PM

Quote:

OK--here's the scoop with my "cheapo" voltometer---with sender disconnected, moving the arm from up to down get about 14-55ohms. With blue wire connected and battery ground on sending unit gage goes form empty to 1/2 full with float travel from up to down. I get about the same results with the other sending unit in both cases. Whaddya think?




According to my FSM, you should have 9.6 ohms plus or minis 1 ohm at full stop. At empty you should have about 73 ohms plus or minis 17 ohms.

Maybe you can bend the stops to get the right readings?

If you can't get those readings the manuel says to replace the sending unit. You sure you have the right sending unit?
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/24/09 11:50 PM

kinda hard to say--my car is cloned and really nothing is original. I am using a 3/8" sending unit with a new tank and my fuel gage is on a rally dash. Thought all this should work together (???)
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 12:53 AM

Quote:

OK--here's the scoop with my "cheapo" voltometer---with sender disconnected, moving the arm from up to down get about 14-55ohms. With blue wire connected and battery ground on sending unit gage goes form empty to 1/2 full with float travel from up to down. I get about the same results with the other sending unit in both cases. Whaddya think?


Your checking everything proper and to back up a second the gas gauge reads E w the blue wire disconnected & when you ground it, it swings over past F. I thought maybe the sending unit was bad but this is the 2nd one & same deal but my gut tells me it's something w the sending unit. I am out of ideas
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 01:24 AM

Thanks for all your help Rapid Robert. Anybody else have any ideas or things I can check?
Posted By: screamindriver

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 01:39 AM

And you're probably correct Robert...I'm betting the aftermarket unit just is'nt close to the correct sweep judging by the values that have been stated...Bending the stop won't give that much more on the top end...And since taking out the cluster for caliberation/sender sync is not on the list there's only one quick fix...You need to bend the float arm before it contacts the upper stop...The basic idea would be to bend the arm in a way that would rotate the center stud up further to gain the values you need for a full tank but keep the float in the same general orientation....Now, you may not get it to read completely full without the actual rallye gauge caliberation with the sending unit...but you'll surely get a much more accurate, useable needle sweep and reading...
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 01:50 AM

Quote:

And you're probably correct Robert...I'm betting the aftermarket unit just is'nt close to the correct sweep judging by the values that have been stated...Bending the stop won't give that much more on the top end...And since taking out the cluster for caliberation/sender sync is not on the list there's only one quick fix...You need to bend the float arm before it contacts the upper stop...The basic idea would be to bend the arm in a way that would rotate the center stud up further to gain the values you need for a full tank but keep the float in the same general orientation....Now, you may not get it to read completely full without the actual rallye gauge caliberation with the sending unit...but you'll surely get a much more accurate, useable needle sweep and reading...




Bend the arm before the stop. Get your reading down around 10 ohms, then you got it.
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 02:10 AM

OK--I'll give it a try tomorrow thanx
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 02:43 AM

You might give Mancini a call & see what Wes thinks. The gauge reading 1/2 full thats WAY off. I could be wrong on this but I dont think you can manipulate the bend enough to correct that kind of error & you shouldn't have to especially for that kind of money.
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 03:03 AM

Before I bent anything I just tried unscrewing the float arm and turning the reostat by hand while reading the fuel gage. I can get the gage to go full sweep to just about full but teh resistance is down close to zero to get it there. I could bend the arm to accomodate but I wonder about the lower end readings?? This is bugging the hell outta me couldn't wait til tomorrow
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 03:08 AM

Quote:

This is bugging the hell outta me


Me too and I went out & measured mine(65 dart w 3/8 unit) & I just filled the tank yesterday & I got .1 ohms!
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 03:33 AM

Quote:

I could bend the arm to accomodate but I wonder about the lower end readings??


and the lower end readings are whats important as when the needle is square on the E you want enough gas to make it to the next station and the gauge stays on F for quite awhile before it starts to move because the gas level w a full tank is above the float as the float is maxed out as high as it will go and does not start to drop until the gas level drops a certain amount.
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 03:38 AM

Well think I'll give Mancini a call tomorrow before I bend anything and see what they say. Thanks for all the help guys I appreciate it
I'll post how I make out either way
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 04:34 AM

dumb question...

how much gas is in your tank?

or these tests were all done with the sender OUT of the tank?
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 11:55 AM

Gas is about 1/2 full in tank, but these tests were all done with sender removed
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 08:42 PM

Just talked to Mancini's Racing about my sending unit--told them what I had checked so far and they say it is the gage. Told them that I grounded out the blue sending unit wire and got full gage deflection and the guy said you should NEVER do this as it si bad for the gage.
Oh well he kinda convinced me he didn't have a clue, so I guess I'm off to bend the float and see if I can get this thing working--any other thoughts anybody has I'd appreciate knowing
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 09:52 PM

Quote:

--any other thoughts anybody has I'd appreciate knowing


Yes it's a very good idea to not peg it, to have a helper & unhook it as it swings rapidly toward(& crosses the F) but with my sending unit having .1 ohms at full tank it's damn near pegged electrically. Take a 5 gal plastic bucket filled w water set next to your tank & run 2 jumper wires to this sending unit & dunk it & w a helper see what the gas gauge reads with the float being raised by the water under operating conditions rather than by hand(I was thinking you might be bearing slightly sideways on the float arm & lessing its contact, kind of grasping for straws now but getting desperate for ideas ). This would give you a good visual for bending it. I still think the resistance wire is the wrong ohms.
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 10:36 PM

sounds like good advice--thanx
Posted By: BDW

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/25/09 10:49 PM

I'm jumping in here late, but sounds like a sender problem. Bending is only going to get you that last little bit. I wouldn't think you're going to make up 1/2 tank.

Good luck
Posted By: denfireguy

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/26/09 12:09 AM

Quote:

I'm jumping in here late, but sounds like a sender problem. Bending is only going to get you that last little bit. I wouldn't think you're going to make up 1/2 tank.

Good luck



Sorry, I have been away from the board for a while. I also do not think that bending it will help. 14 ohms is what your are going to get no matter where the arm is even if it is bent. The extra 5 ohms is what is giving you the problem. If you can find a 25 ohm, 1 Watt resistor to put in parallel with the sender and ground, you can fix the top end reading but the mid and lower scale readings will not be linear. The only way to fix it is to get a sender that will go down to 9 ohms with the arm fully raised.
Putting both senders in the circuit will give you 7 ohms on the line and you should get a full tank indication. It is just not handy having two senders out there. Just throwing that out there for trouble shooting purposes.
Craig
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/26/09 01:00 AM

Do you still have your 5/16" sending unit & if so check it's ohms & toss it in & see if your gas gauge reads right & if so & before you bend the 3/8" one I'd call mancini again & get a return # & send it back & ask them to evaluate it
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/26/09 02:37 AM

No 5/16 sending unit was shot and has long since been tossed. Bending the arm just doesn't feel right and with all the feedback I've gotten I think I'm gonna send it back to Mancini. I'm a cheapskate at heart and don't want to wreck a 120 buck part if I don't have to. Thanks everyone for all your feedback
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/26/09 08:52 PM

My old 3/8" sender had a removable float arm so I took it off and moved the "reostat" with an allen wrench and I was able to get down to about .2 ohms if I max out the travel at the full position. Tried this on the car (outside the tank) and got over 7/8" on the gage. I think I'm gonna try it out installed with float arm bent enough to give me the sme travel. Whattya think?
Posted By: AARCONV

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/27/09 12:05 AM

I would send it back and buy elsewhere....all this bending and modifying might bite u in the butt down the line...
Posted By: trend setters

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/30/09 02:18 AM

Hi guys having the same problem on my end . new sender only reads 1/2 full but when I test the gauge in car reads full?
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 06/30/09 02:23 AM

When this came btt I was hoping that you recalled Mancini & and are going to send it back
Posted By: 70VERT

Re: EBody Fuel Gage Question - 07/07/09 02:18 PM

Just to close the loop on this and maybe help others who were following this thread. I Returned the sending unit and got a new one which I installed and it WORKS FINE.
As incredible as it seemed, I actually had "2" bad sending units! Thanks for all the help guys--all the troubleshooting steps in this thread might be helpful for someone with similar problems--all good stuff.
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