Hemi Conversion Questions

Posted By: Jack Zupan

Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/02/09 02:24 AM

I am putting in a new hemi with Indy heads in my 1969 Roadrunner and pulling the 383 that was in there. I have a couple of questions I hope you guys can answer.

First I removed the crank pulley from the 383 and put it on the hemi and it lines up fine with the water pump pulley. I have a 6 bolt crank flange and a thick damper so I expected this to be a problem based on some past threads. Am I OK or am I missing something?

Second I intend to use the bell housing off the 383, it number is 2892626 which is listed for 383/440 11" clutch so I think I am OK here too. Is there anything I should be aware of that's not obvious?

Thirdly, I can't find a number on the flywheel. It looks pretty good but I wonder what you're opinions might be. I can't find any numbers on it but it is pretty darn heavy. I am thinking I will just re-surface it and use it. What do you think?

Finally, I would like a clutch recommendation. The clutch and pressure plate I pulled from the 383 looks OK but I think I want to replace them just to avoid a possible headache. I am thinking that McLeod would be a good choice for a manufacurer. Also I don't know what combination to choose. This will be primarily a street car and strip time will be rare at best.

As always I value you experience and opinions.

Jack

Posted By: MN-ScatPack

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/02/09 03:15 AM

4 ya.

Posted By: sthemi

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/02/09 05:10 AM

The lower pulley should be OK, Original Hemi's used a thincker balancer on the bottom making a special lower pulley necessary to maintain alignment.The recent production and race motors use the same thickness balancer as the 383/440, so the old pulley should be fine.
The bellhousing will work but the starter will not. It will need to be changed out for a RobMc starter or a factory Hemi direct drive. The common starter will not clear the exhaust, that is why the factory used the weird starter.
Everyone has a clutch they like, I am using a Ram clutch and Pressure plate, other people like the centerforce or Mc leod...

Posted By: MLR426

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/02/09 12:28 PM

Your engine was put together using a thick damper
then you should use hemi pulleys.
Use should get the more common aluminum 10 1/2
clutch and bell housing with a 130 tooth flywheel.
Then use a standard starter or light weight mini-starter.

logan426

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/02/09 12:43 PM

Quote:

The bellhousing will work but the starter will not. It will need to be changed out for a RobMc starter or a factory Hemi direct drive. The common starter will not clear the exhaust, that is why the factory used the weird starter.

direct drive starter will not bolt to the bellhousing he has .

Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/02/09 04:04 PM

If your 383 starter doesn't work with the exhaust I agree that the best idea is to convert to a 70-74 BB bellhousing, flywheel, starter.

Sheldon

Posted By: torkrules

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/02/09 05:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The bellhousing will work but the starter will not. It will need to be changed out for a RobMc starter or a factory Hemi direct drive. The common starter will not clear the exhaust, that is why the factory used the weird starter.

direct drive starter will not bolt to the bellhousing he has .

If it came off of the 383 it will work with any of the gear reduction starters. You'll probably want a mini for more clearence.

The flywheel must be an 11" 143(memory lapse?) for this to work. Since your in there, I'd swap it for a steel unit instead of the stock cast iron one. The hemi flywheel for the direct starter is 171 (another memory laps?).

Posted By: Mr. Dodge

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/02/09 05:49 PM

Why Chance it get a scatter shield problem solved!

Posted By: Jack Zupan

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/03/09 01:00 AM

Thanks for the replies. I checked tonight and I have a 143 tooth flywheel and an 11" clutch. Just curious but why would I get a new flywheel? I know the steel one is stronger but I won't be doing anything more than smoking the tires now and again. At least that's my intention. Likewise with the idea of a scattershield, I don't think the engine will go above 6000 rpm so it didn't seem to me that it would be that big of an issue. Am I wrong?

Posted By: Lee446

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/03/09 03:09 AM

If you are thinking of using the 383/440 flywheel, think again. hemi's have 8 bolt flanges vs 6 bolt and use 1/2" bolts instead of 7/16.

Posted By: sthemi

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/03/09 05:28 AM

Quote:

If you are thinking of using the 383/440 flywheel, think again. hemi's have 8 bolt flanges vs 6 bolt and use 1/2" bolts instead of 7/16.

unless your Hemi was built with a 440 crank,(someone would have to do this on purpose and it would create balance problems) the Hemi should have the 8 bolt flange. They will not interchange.
Here is a pic of the 383 bellhousing with Hemi Manifolds and Rob Mc starter.
The factory gear reduction or mini starter will not clear.
If you use the 10 1/2 inch aluminum bellhousing, set up as mentioned you will be able to use common starter and 70-71 Hemi Flywheel.

Posted By: MLR426

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/03/09 11:48 AM

Quote:

If you are thinking of using the 383/440 flywheel, think again. hemi's have 8 bolt flanges vs 6 bolt and use 1/2" bolts instead of 7/16.

Read his post he said he has a 6 bolt flange.

logan426

Posted By: Hemidavey

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/03/09 12:17 PM

All street hemi engines backed by an automatic used the gear reduction starter and its in the same location as the manual, why are you saying it won't clear the exhaust?
If there is a 6 bolt flange on the crank(ok its odd) the stock flywheel should bolt up and so will the stock starter.
** all high performance big block engines got a stronger starter, easily identified, its about 1/2 inch longer on the black part. Also used on trucks!

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/03/09 02:47 PM

Quote:

All street hemi engines backed by an automatic used the gear reduction starter and its in the same location as the manual, why are you saying it won't clear the exhaust?

I have never compared but I guess the ring gear on a TC is the same size as the 130 tooth flywheel ? I didn't know that the stock gear reduction or the mini wouldn't fit till I was chastised

by someone on this board about it ...

Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/03/09 05:18 PM

I thought the 69 383 and 440 used a normal Chrysler starter? The 66-69 manual Hemi is different but I thought the 383's and 440's were normal.
I think at this point you should mock it up with all your 383 stuff on the garage floor and see if the starter clears the exhaust manifolds or headers you have.
As usual on Moparts there are 30 different opinions some wrong, some right.

Sheldon

Posted By: torkrules

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/03/09 10:43 PM

Quote:

Just curious but why would I get a new flywheel? I know the steel one is stronger but I won't be doing anything more than smoking the tires now and again. At least that's my intention. Likewise with the idea of a scattershield, I don't think the engine will go above 6000 rpm so it didn't seem to me that it would be that big of an issue. Am I wrong?

I'm running a stock steel bell housing on mine. By rights I should use a scatter shield but I was trying to keep the outer appearance as stock looking as possible. Because of this I wanted to make sure that everything under the bell housing was very unlikely to blow apart. That's why I went with a steel flywheel and explosion resistant pressure plate.

Incredible centrifugal forces are generated even at idle. The flywheel is about 40lbs and clutch another 15 lbs. You could do the math and figure out the forces, but if they let go they will go through the bell housing and floor and anything else in it's path. At 6000 rpm, nothing short of a scatter shield will stop it.

Posted By: sthemi

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/04/09 04:21 AM

Quote:

I thought the 69 383 and 440 used a normal Chrysler starter? The 66-69 manual Hemi is different but I thought the 383's and 440's were normal.
I think at this point you should mock it up with all your 383 stuff on the garage floor and see if the starter clears the exhaust manifolds or headers you have.
As usual on Moparts there are 30 different opinions some wrong, some right.

Sheldon

The 383 /440 stuff all works fine until you add the Hemi exhaust, and then you got problems. I did this exact swap on my project and thought I had saved tall dollars on a direct drive starter until I put the manifolds on, then Uth OH.. it dont fit, not even close.
And yes the Automatic bellhousing is smaller, like the 10 1/2 inch manual trans sizes and the normal starter will work then..

Posted By: Jack Zupan

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/06/09 07:11 PM

I have just tried to test fit the headers to the engine with the bellhousing and a RobMc starter installed and it didn't fit. The headers are TTI which everyone says fit like a glove. One of the header tubes is hitting on the starter motor body which is much smaller than the standard starter. I don't know what to do next. I was sure everything would fit together. The bellhousing is the one stated above for an 11" clutch and 143 tooth flywheel. I don't want to ding up those headers if I can avoid it. Man am I frustrated right now. HELP!!!!

Posted By: sthemi

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/06/09 10:19 PM

Try checking the starter to see if it is square to the flange, I had to mess with mine a couple of times to get the nose properly seated in the bellhousing so it was square to the face.
If that doesnt help, the tube will need some TLC, or maybe TTI has a solution.

Posted By: torkrules

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/06/09 10:47 PM

Quote:

I have just tried to test fit the headers to the engine with the bellhousing and a RobMc starter installed and it didn't fit. The headers are TTI which everyone says fit like a glove. One of the header tubes is hitting on the starter motor body which is much smaller than the standard starter. I don't know what to do next. I was sure everything would fit together. The bellhousing is the one stated above for an 11" clutch and 143 tooth flywheel. I don't want to ding up those headers if I can avoid it. Man am I frustrated right now. HELP!!!!

Somethings a miss. Check everything carefully if everything checks out call TTI. I ran that set up in my Road Runner and never had an issue.

Posted By: Jack Zupan

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/07/09 12:38 AM

Did you use a Lakewood or a Mopar bellhousing?

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/07/09 01:09 AM

I've done a few Hemi builds/installs using the stock 383-440 bell and 130 tooth flywheels, no install problems regarding the bell or flywheels or starters to, but,....all the cars ran TTI headers, and small Chrsler starters, some set-ups required the tube to be massaged

even to clear the mini starter!,.....all required massageing

on the TTI's to clear the power steering box,....one car had to have the PS box ground on the casing for more clearance

....yeah that was fun!

Posted By: torkrules

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/07/09 12:18 PM

Quote:

Did you use a Lakewood or a Mopar bellhousing?

Stock 11" 383 cast iron bell housing. I had to grind a couple of "teats' of the bell on the passenger side that did hit one tube, but other than that everything fit fine.

Posted By: toplescuda

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/07/09 03:26 PM

after reading this please remind me......why are peopple spending 5-$700 bucks for a set of tti headers?????? i think that is just stupid for 600 bucks you would think that would come to your house and build them on your car heck for having some headers you got to beat on at all might as well buy some garage sale headers and if you want have them plated/powdercoated result would be the same

Posted By: ogopogo

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/30/09 09:01 AM

Any updates on this install? I am planning on installing my hemi in a few days with TTI 2 1/8 headers,69 iron 11' bellhousing and a mopar OEM mini starter and a conversion to power steering(firm feel) at the same time.I will be very unhappy if I have to beat on my very expensive ,new,TTI headers.I do have a new pair of hooker 5210 hemi headers and access to a scattershield if needed if it will go together easier.

Posted By: Jack Zupan

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/30/09 10:20 AM

I think I have everything ready to go into the car this weekend. I was delayed because of having to order some new stuff and because of family.

The RobbMac starter was just a tiny bit too long and interfered with the #6 tube of the tti headers. This starter is 8" long I believe. I bought a Denso starter from Mancini which is 6 1/2" long and it fit fine. There is still not a lot of room but the headers will bolt up on the driver side. I had to grind off one nipple on the passenger side of the bellhousing to make the header fit there but that was easy. I am using an 11" bellhousing as stated above with 11" McLeod diaphram clutch. Everything works on the garage floor so I think I am good for installation.

Posted By: torkrules

Re: Hemi Conversion Questions - 06/30/09 04:01 PM

Quote:

I think I have everything ready to go into the car this weekend. I was delayed because of having to order some new stuff and because of family.

The RobbMac starter was just a tiny bit too long and interfered with the #6 tube of the tti headers. This starter is 8" long I believe. I bought a Denso starter from Mancini which is 6 1/2" long and it fit fine. There is still not a lot of room but the headers will bolt up on the driver side. I had to grind off one nipple on the passenger side of the bellhousing to make the header fit there but that was easy. I am using an 11" bellhousing as stated above with 11" McLeod diaphram clutch. Everything works on the garage floor so I think I am good for installation.

Should work good!