EFI Six-Pack - F&B ?

Anyone familiar with the F&B EFI Six Pack setup ?

http://www.fbthrottlebodies.com/products.htm

here's a nice article

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techa...rade/index.html


Maybe I should convert my 70 RR 440 to a EFI Six pack car

expensive ($2,678.00) , but ..... the kit comes fully assembled with three billet throttlebodies, adjustable progressive linkage, fuel rails with billet mounts, IAC, TPS, Fuel rail crossover (AN-8), billet throttle cable mount, and one of three air cleaner options

Anyone have experience with F&B ?

We have discussed EFI conversions before, but who has actually done it ?

Only problem I see with their setup is the 6 pack intake supposedly does not flow air equally to each cylinder at all. Makes me thing a 6-pack intake would lend itself better to a TBI system than a port efi system...

I haven't done it yet, but plan on using them when I do. A new six pack intake + all the new carbs etc. is pretty costly also, so the EFI price isn't as steep as it first sounds.

I plan on doing it with a stroked small block in a T/A clone.

Tav

I would not stagger the opening of the TB's to inccur fuel millage or performance. The efi system should be the tool you use and not the TB for tuning. You will limit or increase air flow hoping the efi will compensate, and it will to a point.

You will have to run the correction limits wide open in order to allow it to compensate, and they typically max out at +/-20% from VE...So anything outside of that, assuming you got VE dead on for the set-up you have it on now, and you have just leaned out or richened the engine out, and the efi cannot compensate and it runs like crap.

The correction factor is the difference between the VE you have programmed into the table and the programmed target A/F...The efi system will compansate the base VE number to achieve the target A/F, assuming you know the right A/F for your engine. Now, when you change the air flow, the VE in the table will be off, and the compensation factor the system needs grows to hit the target A/F. Now under normal conditions, that factor is used to compensate for air temp, humidity and elevation, now you want to throw in the TB.....Well, that only leads to running like crap considering how much you can change it with no less than three TB's.

I have done several of these conversions with Bruce at F&B. He's a super guy. I have some pictures on a car that was in a mag and won at Carlyle last year on my web site under "Photos"
www.fastmanefi.com

They run very well and Bruce can adapter them to almost any engine.

Rich, do you have any pics of the EZ efi set-up on a tunnel ram yet?

I haven't done that yet. I'm waiting for their dual throttle body ECU. They advertise it as if it's already here - but it's not. Heck, I waited 1 1/2 years for the EZ-EFI so I guess I can wait a little longer for the dual throttle body EZ ECU.

besides what comes in the kit, what else would I need ?

You get the manifold from Bruce at F&B. That includes all the throttle bodies, IAC (idle air control), TPS (throttle position sensor), injectors (size depends on your HP level), linkage etc.

I supply you with all the electronics:
ECU (with O2 sensor), dual-sync distributor (for full sequential operation), harness, Sensors: CTS (coolant temp), ATS (air temp), map (manifold vacuum), Laptop software, a base program, tech support.

You would also need an EFI fuel system which requires an EFI pump (45 PSI), an EFI regulator, and a return line to the tank. I can supply all these components too or make suggestions.

I dunno what is in the kit, but he's a rough list of the stuff:

a) fuel tank
- proper sized supply line for your HP (3/8" likely). Can modify fuel sender unit
- Return line
- sump is advisable and my preferred option or you can hear the pump sucking the void on corners below 1/3-1/4 tank it cavitates on corners.
b) Pumps, filters and regulors
- pre pump filter (100 micron screen, lots of surface area unless you enjoy pumps cavitating and screens plugigng up.
- pre rails/injectors filter (10 micron, lots of flow capability so it doesn't plug or restrict or blow out when plugged)
- regulator sized to your app, preferrably vacuum referenced not a must
- pump sized to your app. Juyst what you need, and do not over doe it. If you go too big it can heat the fuel and Aeromotive recommends a pricy motor speed controller, or you risk hot fuel or worse. If your controller has a RPM switch, you can build your own pump speed control through several means
- lots of plumbing hoses and fittings. Get comfortable with AN- fittings as that is the easiest way to route a supply and return line.
c) Electrical
- you likely need a good 15A circuit for the injectors and controller. 8 low imp injectors will pull 8A a full blast. High imp will pull 16A average and could peak more than that but not usually in a sequential system
- 20-30A circuit for yoru fuel pump, depending on size etc
- Alternator. You probably have 20+ more amps pulling at low RPM between the pump and EFI stuff, so make sure your alternator puts out at idle ranges. I run a 100A alternator which puts out about around 40-45 at idle and it works for me so far.
c) typical kit type stuff
- injectors
- rails
- wiring harness
- controllers
- Sensors: MAP, TPS, Coolant and Air temp, maybe more
d) sensors not likely in the kit
- Wideband O2 sensor. A must for tuning.
- bung for your exhaust pipe to fit narrow or wideband O2 sensor
- plumb a fuel pressure gauge into your regulator or somewhere on your pressure side by the rails so you can see and set what you're getting to your injectors.
- in car fuel pressure gauge is handy until you're sure your system is working right.


I'm sure I'm missing lots of those little things like cable ties, clamps and that stuff, but this is roughly what a complete system will consist of. If I think of anything else that is important, I'll edit this. I've done this a few times for my car and hit almost all the common pitfalls and money sinks one can come across.

I think the 6 pack looks nice, but all that linkage and the less than ida distirbution might be less than ideal, but will still work quite well and even better if the controller you choose will let you fatten up any ports that you can tell are lean. I di a RPM Air-gapo and that work very nicely. This time I'm doing a tunnel ram, and I expect it to work very well for it's nearly uncompromised dry flow characteristics which are great for EFI motors.

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/zbhansen/temp/DartNewMotorInstalled.JPG

Best of luck. Feel free to ask me any questions about EFI on these old mopars. I see you're already caught the attention of a few of the boards good EFI vendors and experts.

Greg

can the FAST system be used with the EFI six pack? I would like to run one on my AAR tribute restomod. I intend to run a FAST 4150 setup on my hemi roadrunner.

Yes. Either the EZ-EFI for port injection, or the new XFI 2.0 will work. I've done many, and they work well.

that is outstanding, I am in. still a little ways to go before I need the set up but you have removed this from the "maybe" column to the "difinte" column. thanks.

AAR tribute? Excellent.
We will be at the MATS this year with the 72 Baccaruda
and 74 Jensen. Weve done a couple of 6pack EZ systems with great results. Im up to Sacramento for an EZ 6bbl install on another Jensen Interceptor next week.
Looking forward to some new projects for 2011!
Bruce

on the 72 Barracuda, What AC compressor and belt bracket setup did you use in order to have AC with your six pack?

Tav

On a similar note.

What happened with EFISIXPACK the member.

Wasn't he talking about producing his setup at one time?

Is that an option?

From what I recall from my conversation with him, the EFISIXPACK setup will not be an option anytime soon. He was considering producing it back when he was in that magazine article, but then he changed jobs and never really got off the ground with it. If I recall correctly, there were also concerns about the cost as compared to the F&B setup, and also the CFM of the throttle bodies. I think the EFISIXPACK setup flowed the same CFM as the original carb it was based off of, while the F&B setup has a little higher CFM rate.

In the looks department though, I think EFISIXPACK has them beat hands down. His throttle bodies are gorgeous like works of art.

I see him post on moparts now and then, maybe he'll show up here and give us an update.

Tav

History..
I had not seen or heard of EFISIXPACK's system when I was battleing BG850 problems on my Jensen Interceptor. A beer or two later that night we hatched a plan to MPI a sixpack mfld using the two barrel TBs we already made for Magnum motors. The next morning we went at it and it was a bit harder than wed though...even with a full CNC shop at our disposal. Id seen a system using gutted carbs as TBs but that was it. 6 years later, my stuff still doesnt look as good as SIXPACKEFI's...ouch. Supports a lot of HP though, especially in Max Wedge port format. The pricing is a bear as you're selling three complete throttlebodies as well as a fully ported manifold etc. etc. Come to the Mopars at the Strip show (or Spring Fling) and well talk about "show special pricing" if youd like! Hoping to drive the Barracuda in the Slalom this year at least (missed it last year but did drive the Jensen around the cones)
Bruce

The a/C is BPEs kit (the car came with A/C from the factory) Everything else is pretty much stock. I had to trim the aircleaner base to fit the compressor. My hose routing is not typical for the kit...

Quote:

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The pricing is a bear as you're selling three complete throttlebodies as well as a fully ported manifold etc. etc. Come to the Mopars at the Strip show (or Spring Fling) and well talk about "show special pricing" if youd like!

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Good to see you here Bruce! Thanks for the AC info!

Actually, I think your pricing is pretty decent if compared to the cost of buying a new stock six pack setup. Your setup costs a little more, but I feel it's worth it for the reliability of fuel injection + increased flow rates and WOW factor. I look forward to owning one of your setups someday. Thanks for giving us such a great product.

Tav