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Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion UPDATE/photos

Posted By: 68HemiB

Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion UPDATE/photos - 05/09/09 03:45 AM

Intelligent people can disagree.

My buddy and I do not share the same opinion on a pair of NOS F body calipers. The calipers are obviously unused, and the brake inlet is still capped. Take the cap off, and all looks pristine down the hole. There is some shelf rash and very light surface rusting. Dust boots are soft and intact. Nothing scary in the visual inspection.

The problem? Neither piston will budge upon application of compressed air with a rubber-tipped snozzle.

Person A: This is not good. These calipers are stuck. 2.75 inch piston diameter means 6 square inches of surface area (Pi are ROUND, Cornbread are square), which at 120psi air pressure means they won't budge with over 700 pounds of force. We need to get them apart, inspect them, and likely rebuild them.

Person B: Nice math, Archimedes. So how do you suggest we get the pistons UNstuck?

Person A: Well, as any professional knows, you hook them up to the vehicle's brake lines, bleed them, and then use the M.C.'s pressure advantange to get them pumped out.

Person B: So, we'll go to the trouble of doing all that, without even seeing if, once they get unstuck, they even hold pressure? Why don't we just do all that, but see if they hold pressure, can be pushed back, etc., BEFORE we tear them down.

Person A: But they're STUCK now. That means there's something wrong.

Person B: But if they free up, and don't leak...?

Person A: They are a problem waiting to happen.

Are you person A or B in this case?
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion - 05/09/09 04:01 AM

Pulling the pistons out & visually inspecting them takes ten minutes per side.. If they look good you lost ten minutes, you can probably reuse the seals... If theres a problem I'd rather find it on the bench than on the road...
Posted By: Lefty

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion - 05/09/09 04:11 AM

Spray a liberal amount of Kroil in the brake line hole and let it sit overnight with the piston side down so the Kroil flows around the piston. It will dissolve the rust and free the piston. Rinse it out with brake fluid after.

http://www.kanolabs.com/google/ <- Killer deal!

http://www.kanolabs.com/ <- Kroil info
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion - 05/09/09 04:12 AM

k.i.s.s. Open them up & see what you see. Seal and boot kits for them are dirt cheap and a visual inspection will uncover most all issues & yes I did vote.
Posted By: 340SHORTY

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion - 05/09/09 04:18 AM

I voted too,,, but I forgot the question....
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion - 05/09/09 04:25 AM

I voted but don't see option C , use them as cores for a WORKING rebuilt set ???
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion - 05/09/09 12:13 PM

Quote:

I voted but don't see option C , use them as cores for a WORKING rebuilt set ???


They will most likely be pitted to a point that no ammount of clean-up will save them. Cores got my vote. They're a dime a dozen!
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion - 05/09/09 01:50 PM

Let's see, last F body was buit in what? 81?

It's 2009, do math, that's 18 years.

Bet the rubber is bad. Might look ok but I would rebuild them anyway, ever hear of dryrot?
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion - 05/09/09 03:49 PM

Quote:

Let's see, last F body was buit in what? 81?

It's 2009, do math, that's 18 years.

Bet the rubber is bad. Might look ok but I would rebuild them anyway, ever hear of dryrot?




Go back to school.. Your math skills stink.. But your caliper knowledge is better..
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion - 05/09/09 04:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Let's see, last F body was buit in what? 81?

It's 2009, do math, that's 18 years.

Bet the rubber is bad. Might look ok but I would rebuild them anyway, ever hear of dryrot?




Go back to school.. Your math skills stink.. But your caliper knowledge is better..




Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion - 05/10/09 10:43 PM

Sorry, I don't remember the 90's

29 years, lol
Posted By: 68HemiB

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion - 05/11/09 01:09 AM

Update:

Person A: SEE! Only 30% of the poll respondants (after you take away the seed vote YOUR way), and none of the comments said go with them.

Person B: Yeah, but they're your Internet buddies, so of course they're going to support your position.

Person A: Not true. Nobody knew which position was mine. Besides, I know exactly ONE of the respondents personally, and most of them would rather bust my chops than come to my support.

Person B: Okay, let's tear them down and have a look.

So, we did. As it turns out, the quote below best describes the outcome (except his prediction on the speed at which two old guys and their beers can work):

Quote:

Pulling the pistons out & visually inspecting them takes ten minutes per side.. If they look good you lost ten minutes, you can probably reuse the seals... If theres a problem I'd rather find it on the bench than on the road...




Photo number one is BEFORE:

Attached picture 5220997-resize1.JPG
Posted By: 68HemiB

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion - 05/11/09 01:11 AM

With 20-20 hindsight, I suppose they would have been good to go, once they freed up.

BUT we both sleep easier after investing the time.

Photo number 2 is immediately upon teardown, with no cleaning at all:

Attached picture 5221001-resize2.JPG
Posted By: 68HemiB

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion - 05/11/09 01:13 AM

The seals were supple and good as is.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to vote and/or comment.

Photo number final is a representative glimpse of the caliper innards, after a simple wipe with a clean rag:

Attached picture 5221006-resize3.JPG
Posted By: gamagoat6x6

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion UPDATE/photos - 05/11/09 01:38 AM

I see you have the nice green plastic pistons that swell up and stick in the bores. Mopar had a big problem with those and our new `76 new yorker was off the road for a week or so with seized brakes waiting on chrysler to replace the calipers. They couldn`t get the parts so I took the car back and sanded the plastic junk pistons down to the correct size.
Posted By: 68HemiB

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion UPDATE/photos - 05/11/09 01:53 AM

Quote:

I see you have the nice green plastic pistons that swell up and stick in the bores. Mopar had a big problem with those and our new `76 new yorker was off the road for a week or so with seized brakes waiting on chrysler to replace the calipers. They couldn`t get the parts so I took the car back and sanded the plastic junk pistons down to the correct size.




Hmmmmmmmmm. More info, if you please.

Was there a TSB?

I will say that the tolerances seemed awfully tight...

Are you saying that all phenolic pistons are junk or just the original ones or just certain part numbers or certain batches or the caliper bores were undersize or what?
Posted By: Mr_fixit

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion UPDATE/photos - 05/11/09 02:26 AM

I've had several problems with the phenolic pistons also..they get stuck!

Metal pistons for Me.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion UPDATE/photos - 05/11/09 02:27 AM

While I personally am not a fan of phenolic brake pistons, auto manufacturers continue to use them in heavy duty applications such as Police Package vehicles... They have always had a higher occurance of sticking in calipers than steel pistons...And everytime I've taken one apart it seemed to have deposits on the sides of the piston... FWIW Glad the calipers looked good, sorry I wasted your time But at least it won't cause you to lose any sleep...
Posted By: 68HemiB

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion UPDATE/photos - 05/11/09 03:06 AM

Quote:

While I personally am not a fan of phenolic brake pistons, auto manufacturers continue to use them in heavy duty applications such as Police Package vehicles... They have always had a higher occurance of sticking in calipers than steel pistons...And everytime I've taken one apart it seemed to have deposits on the sides of the piston... FWIW Glad the calipers looked good, sorry I wasted your time But at least it won't cause you to lose any sleep...




No wasting of time - friends and tinkering... it's all good.

I have lead a sheltered life I guess, with little reason to fear phenolic pistons (not that I've ever personally run them). With the rep of low heat transfer and use in HD applications, I thought it would be a good upgrade for my buddy. Now, there's another reason to lose sleep.



How abouts another vote...
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion UPDATE/photos - 05/11/09 03:12 AM

Oh no not another poll
Posted By: MowP4rsn

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion UPDATE/photos - 05/11/09 04:24 AM

I skipped the 1st poll and jumped to the 2nd.
Buy stainless steel pistons in you can find 'em, or throw those plastic puppies back in and run 'em!
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Poll for brake guys - NOS caliper opinion UPDATE/photos - 05/11/09 12:40 PM

Supprised at how nice the bores look. Don't no about the swelling thing, but the problem I had with phenolics was they would stick in the bores -you could see little chatter marks on the sides of the pistons. Had lots of problems with them on squad car applications. The fix was to go to steel pistons.
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