Street hemi build to stroke or not to stroke

That is the question

I don't race it .... Hardly beat on it outside of the occasional burst when i get the urge.

So....unless it's a race car ....what's the point?

I can understand if it needs a crank or something.
Outside of that....why??

Would like to hear pros and cons either way!

When you already have the head flow, why not have the displacement to go with it?

Based on the way you say you drive the car stroking it would be over kill. When the 440 six pack in my 69 Bee needed rebuilt Chuck at Best Machine talked me into stroking it to 512. It was a beast but based on the way I drove the car it was overkill. Should have keep it 440. Already had a 8.0 drag car for the adrenaline rush.

Ahh - the old "while I'm in there" temptation...

Mine - stock stroke but biggish cam, headers, MSD, ported heads - made 540 @ 6,000 and was going up from there.
It'd blow off its Radial T/As (295/50R15) until 3rd gear ('68 RR, 4-speed, 4.10s), but M&H DOTs helped.
If you just drive the car, and it doesn't need a crank or re-configuring and the other decisions that come with that, it's still the most awesome American engine ever.
But if you want a religious experience, and have a wide-open place to enjoy it, step it up.

I drive my 528" Hemi whenever I get a chance all over on the street. Fuel mileage is not as good as stock though.... lol.

For normal driving only with a romp once in a while and if you already have all good enough parts for std stroke?
I wouldn't.

If you need all new internals anyway, a little extra displacement can help offset the big ports and valves and give it a little more low speed snap.

I went mild 572 on the one I built for the GTX, but have a more street/strip mindset for it and started with nothing, and while I do care what numbers the car puts out, at the same time I have to admit the hemi is just as much for cool factor as anything else.

Have tentative plans for another one that is a cruiser, and there's no reason to increase the displacement at all.

If you want to have us justify what you want, thank about that.
You go around once in life, you could do that now or maybe do it later, it is your choice.
My thinking is do you want to take a chance of not doing it now and regretting that decision later
I like power in my race cars, I have built many different street and srip cars as well as street only and drag race only, My last race only car ran 8.86 at 150.+ MPH in the 1/4 mile and 5.50 at 125 MPH in the1/8 mile weighing 2850 Lbs. with me in it
My next race only car, heads up no prep, hopefully will run in the low 4 at 170+ MPH in the 1/8 mile on E85 with a B1 motor and or NOS and a centrifugal supercharger with the motor making close to 2700 HP
I have been blessed in my life to be able to do that, thanks be to God

Good luck on your decision either way

For what you're doing...I'd stay w/ the stock crank. A little more cam and tweaking in other areas will make more than enough power.

But again, Unless its a race car ,,,even if just sometimes. WHY ?


If I was starting with an empty block I could be persuaded pretty easily.

But the bottom end in mine already has a Kellogg crank in it that I have to believe is just fine for when / If the time comes I pull it down.
Yet the few builders Ive talked to the 1st thing they mention is Stroke it up. And that appears to add aprrox $3000 to the bill

My only reason I would pull it down is to lower compression to make it more pump gas friendly, and correct some oil usage.


But still even if we take my car out of the equation . And its YOUR car ,,,again you dont race the car.

Say you're starting with an empty block , Why the expense to stroke it UNLESS its a part time drag car . And Im not thinking a car you take down the strip at the Mopar Nats once a year. But something you race several times a year.


Whats the point ? Besides bragging rights???
And again taking my car and its use out of the equation.

If you did it, Why ?
If you didnt , do you wish you had and why?

One of the reasons I bring it up. Is a friend of mine up in Phoenix is having the engine for his 66 Hemi Satellite , 4spd with the stock 3.54 dana out being done right now. And the builder asked,,, Almost pushed him to stroke it . But he didnt.
Although He is upgrading it to a roller cam and headers though. this guy is an old SCCA racer so I can see his car making a few passes from time to time just for grins.

There is very good horsepower in a stock stroke Hemi. Chrysler killed hp when they were detuned for street cars . If it was me I would build a stock stroke with no less 10.5 cr and a solid roller or solid lifter cam and a new Edelbrock 2X4 intake. Old grinds work well on the street. Built one last year with a Isky 550 roller and it's very streetable. And this picture was taken before I finished the carbs. I removed every bit of the choke and linkages and it's starts immediately..

Mine is .020 over, but had 12.5 pistons in it that have been milled down a tad , builder thinks its in the 11.2 - 11.5 range ( keep in mind this car has been done 20 years )

I have the cam card ,,,around here somewhere and best I remember its just a tad over .500 lift .( its solid lift btw )
Otherwise box stock , still running stock heads, valve gear , exhaust manifolds and stock exhaust. etc etc

Im toying with the idea to change the mufflers to something with a little more growl so to speak and thinking up the full system to a 2.5inch end to end while Im at it. I dont want to go to 3inch for fear of clearance issues in the back ( I HATE squeeks + rattles )
And if I pull it down for a piston change . Im may upgrade the cam to get away from yearly cam adjustments and give it a little rumble when pulling into cruises.


I bought the car primarily due to the color combination. The hemi was just an added bonus. And is PRIMARILY eye candy to the masses, AKA an ego boost for me. As its been a VERY LONG time since Ive owned a hemi car

Ill be honest,. Ive owned it 3 years and to date have still NOT really flat laid into it .

It is up to you and your wallet. Unless I win a bunch of money I will never afford a hemi so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Stroke it;
More torque everywhere and power at a lower rpm.
Better to have it and not need it than want it and not have it.

Stock;
Run the piss out of it and don't care what anyone else says.


Build the best shortblock you can afford. The rest is the easy part.

Off idle torque with a broad flat curve and not having to wind it up to make power. The manors of a stroked motor are the chef's kiss for a street machine. Even putting around at part throttle the response makes it a pleasure to drive.

If starting with an empty block and you have to buy everything it costs the same to build a stroker as it would stock displacement , but if you have everything already and it's all good and useable it doesn't make sense unless you are chasing a goal that a stockish 426 wouldn't meet.

I have a crate 426 circa 2005 that I have been resisting the urge to stroke out, it could use a piston change but at 9.0 it's a pump gas friendly combo that will have more than enough more to wreck a set of tires in short order

I don't get the 9.0:1 Street Hemi idea - the chamber is not that sensitive to octane.
That's a fundamental reason Chrysler introduced it for the '51 models.
I ran 10.8:1 in mine with iron heads on Calif 91 and it never rattled.
Granted, the cam had some overlap that bled off a bit of CR, but it had a fairly aggressive curve, 36 total, + vac advance.

Talk on compression ratio selection that is worth a listen.

https://youtu.be/URyZ8h_U310?si=jvhrcfGJgZ5uazl5

Part 2. Posting this before I've seen it.

https://youtu.be/XfrHiEzdmMc?si=UqjAn-gV7t8szN8F

Ive been told a stroker and a 9ish to one compression is very nice for a pump gas street car . Now whether there is any truth to that I cant answer

The torque and off idle response of a big inch Hemi along with the top end pull is the best combo on the planet!

But, as you have added information and again mentioned that you don't want to romp on it, then you might just as well stay at 426. For most cars, there is no traction with a big inch Hemi until 50MPH anyway.

FYI: Barton spec'd my 540 with 10.25 compression. Does fine on 91 octane.

So:
Pros; added torque and throttle response in a street car
Cons; more money, additional traction issues

I would start with a goal. What kind of power and where, then decide if stock stroke will match the goal.

I kept mine stock stroke. Makes peak power (and carries it) at rather high rpm which I find a lot of fun and matches my driving style.

Seems most prefer more lower rpm/midrange power and if that's so probably better to up the cubes.

hi ,

i have a 511 hemi .

previous owner wanted max cu without boring it , new block .

10.25 comp .

hyd roller can drive anywhere .

i go to track app 6 times a year .

otherwise drive anywhere

if i would be doing it i would use a 4.15 crank for a little low end boost .

i can tell i have 511 cu in to feed every time i need fuel more motor than i realy need !

a little less cu in would be fine 472 maybe . with 10.25 comp. better milage , plenty of power .

i do not like the hyd roller as it is noisy , i would use a solid flat tappet with a tight lash .016 quieter than the hyd roller !

if you have a good crank and rods sell them and do the 4.15 , more torque at lower rpm and still verry driveable with right cam .

I have to got with the stroke it. Every time you tickle the throttle it'll make you smile a lot wider

I've been building stroker engines for roughly 30 years and I don't have any intention of ever building another stock stroke engine for myself. I can understand situations where a person would build a stock stroke engine. Severe budget limits, rules, lack of parts, etc. but outside of that I don't see any reason to build a stock stroke engine.

At the shop I work at I'd say about 25% of the engines are stock stroke. Usually those people are doing restorations, or they have very limited budgets, or it is a rules restricted engine. People building race engines or street performance engines typically ask for the "most bang for the buck" which means they get a 505 Mopar, or a 347 SBF, or a 383 SBC, or a 521 BBF, or a 482 FE, or something along those lines. There are specific sizes that work best for each of the classic muscle car engines so that is what we recommend.
I haven't worked on a 426 Hemi for a long time but if someone wanted to build one these days I'd most likely recommend a 4.250 crank with 2.20 rod journals and a 7.100 long rod. That is a combination that is provides a lot of value for the money spent. The parts are proven and they fit and work.

Bill what Hemi engine are you asking this question for? Is it the original matching numbers engine in your car?

I don't get it either but then again the engineers at Chrysler thought it was a great idea to make the stage 6 wedge heads with a raised intake port entrance and stock iron wedge head valve lengths ...

I think a lot of people just think they have to have a stroker b/c kits are everywhere nowadays. But if you already have a good rotating assembly, aren't interested in seriously racing, don't have a low ET goal, and just want a fun street car...stick w/ the stock crank. Unless you just like wasting money.
I'm not knocking a stroker at all, they're great. I just think too many people are discounting just how strong a well set up stock stroke motor can run. Doesn't take all that much to really wake one up.
For the OP's intended use, I think a stroker kit is an absolute waste of money.

Oh, a 9:1 hemi should be able to run on 87 octane. I'd go 10.5:1 at the absolute minimum.

Search for another Hemi enthusiast whose car has a modified engine similar to what you are considering having built.
Spend money to go visit that car and “chew the fat” with that owner, and be sure to ask what other owners he has met.
Think of it as “My Hemi financial advisor Web.”
Keep spending money on such visits until you have spent 15% of what potential engine work would total up to.

This may have had something to do with the length of the intake valves on the Street Hemi at least. In order to fit the Hemi into a production car Tom Hoover said they came up with the idea of canting the cylinder heads inwards to make the top of the Street Hemin more narrow. If you look at the SH combustion chamber it is not centered over the cylinder or the piston. Tom Hoover is explaining this with his hands in an interview and this made for the different valve lengths between the intake and exhaust valves on the Street Hemi. Don't know if that's why, just throwing it out there.

Mike

yes.

It uses a little oil and if I set timing where it really wants to be to run the best. Race gas /. premium mix then becomes mandatory or it rattles like crazy , diesels on shut down something fierce. Ive got timing set at about 15 base right now and can get away with straight 91octane. And it will still ping slightly if I get stuck in traffic on a really hot day.

So Im contemplating a build at a later date. Maybe in the next 2 years or so .


I've talked to a few builders to maybe just send the long block out and have it done. And all but one highly suggested a 4.15 stroker crank ( or more ) and associated parts.


A friend of mine has his being done right now Staying stock stroke but went 30 over I believe. The builder is a retired top fuel mechanic ( dont know who ) So when he gets his back in and running this spring. I plan to take a ride and talk to the guy whom built it. Then go from there .
The compression issue is a project I knew I would be facing when I bought the car. The oil consumption wasnt


One guy whom I trust without issue suggested stroke it with a 4.15 crank ONLY if I pulled it down. BUT ,, he also said that if it runs good, ( and it does ) Leave it alone and just add oil as needed. $15,000 buys A LOT of oil.

Like Ive said I dont race it, honestly barely romp on it. Its more a cruiser / long term keeper / bucket list car for me.


I suggested a few weeks back to the wife to sell it . Buy a cheaper car and pocket a boatload of money and she shot that down in a milisecond. So the car is going no where at any point in time . When Im pushing up cactus . My girls will take over

These engines are notorious for sucking oil through the intake gasket. I have personally fought this issue on an engine. They can consume a substantial amount of oil that way and since that oil contains no octane, it can make the engine much more prone to spark knock. BEFORE you tear your engine down, check those intake ports for oil and the back sides of the intake valves for deposits. Just in case. All it takes is one or two cylinders sucking oil to cause those issues.

The best suggestion so far.

A cheap Harbor Freight bore scope would help too.

I recently bought a flexible borescope on an Amazon prime day mainly for this specific job planned
And it is a post retirement project in the next few months

Really does seem like voodoo when building a hemi. So many horror stories out there.

Bill why don't you just start putting a few bucks away and buy a stroker 472 Hemi crate engine or something like that. Pull the numbers engine put it into the crate engine shipping box and save it. Then you have the option to either put the numbers engine back in, sell the stroker engine, or leave the stroker engine in and sell the numbers engine to the buyer and walk away. I think the stroker crate engines are a little stronger too (anyone?) and everything is new so you can have your fun without worrying about losing the numbers engine. I think you would have nearly the same amount of $$$ in it and you would get a little more back from your investments. If you're going to put $15k+ into your numbers engine I think another $8K or so gets you a new crate stroker Hemi again not sure of current prices?

I would give this idea serious consideration if it was my issue. It’s a far better situation in the long run.

I was thinking my 9.0 would be a good base to top off with a roots type blower ...

Oil consumption could be the valve guides - BTDT, and silicone seals cured it.
Plus, oil has low octane, and in diluting the fuel mixture, reduces the fuel's octane.

Oh believe me.


I have given this idea A LOT of thought trust me.
And deep down feel like it's the best option. BUT.....
There is a cost prospective I have to consider to do it and then my biggest issue I have is storage of the oe engine.

I'm retiring in 7 days so need to keep an eye on cash flow for a while.

Not that anything was going to happen in the next year or so anyway.

Very possible.

Another diagnostic trick is to temporarily replace your regular engine oil with 100% synthetic, ash-less, 2 stroke 30 wt oil to do a test drive,
This unique synthetic oil has a special formulation to reduce detonation.

Can you get all the parts to build a new hemi anyway? These days? That quite a bit to tie up if you can. It’s not like building an extra 440 to protect your numbers block and you out in the hundreds on the deal.

I ran a compression ck maybe 18 months ago I think. All were over 200psi , Ran cyl leak down ck as well. None were over 15% loss . These numbers are best case memory off the top of my head ( my memory aint what it used to be )


I may pull it apart in the next month or so to do some paint touchups and run thru the valves . So might pull the carbs and run a bore scope in the intake for a look see

15% is a fair amount, but seems a bit at odds with a 200 psi reading.
Oil through the guides may not show up with either test.
It was a long time ago, but the seals I bought were from Silver Seal and are/were blue in color.
I can look for the box - I kept it as I had to buy a bunch - and I may have enough left that I could send you some.

Im going off memory.

But best I can think most were in the 7-8 % loss. and maybe 2 or 3 were a little over 10% , Again been a while so I'm not 100% certain of those numbers. After i thought about it I dont think any were in the 15% range

But I do remember all 8 were in the low 200psi range on a compression ck

I went thru the valves right after I bought it and ckd the valve seals at that time and all were present and best I could tell still very pliable. Sorry,,,,but I dont remember what type seals are on it


Whats real odd. This past spring when I changed the oil ( I run straight 30 weight Rotella with a bottle of Lucas ZDDP additive )
And I ran it to Phoenix and back and oil was still on full. Thats about 300 miles round trip give or take.
Its after it gets maybe 400-500 ( approx ) miles on it, it will use a qt every 100-150 miles.

A litle history on the car / engine that I know

Car was done in 2004 running driving, Sometime later ( not sure when )
The fuel pump went out of it several years back. And a new one installed , but turns out the replacement pump was the high pressure variant and flooded the engine thru the carbs ( excessive pressure )
Thats since changed to a lower pressure spec type hemi pump long before I bought it

Ive talked to the man who built it and he feels the fuel washed the rings out of it and never sealed back up .
It had a grand total of 850 miles put on it from spring 2004 until Oct 2020 when I bought the car
Ive since put over 10,000 miles on it. As I have no use for a garage queen and I drive the car A LOT.

One of my concerns to stroke it and get more power out of it was traction. I run a 245-60-15 tire and it can be a little traction limited now.


To build a 2nd engine I figure is mid $20s at a minimum and , upper $20s most likely. And deep down feel like thats an expense I doubt I want to do at this stage in my life. Plus the whole storage issue.


Im plan to have a sit down conversation with a buddy of mine next year at the spring fling and get his thoughts to build mine , Or ?????

Bill you may be right but maybe mid $20......hey it's only money

What oil pan are you running? We used to always run a quart low with stock oil pans on big blocks and Hemis. Because the top quart would ALWAYS disappear. The second quart often would not. I have heard differing opinions as to what was going on. But I have seen many, many times where these engines would lose the top quart of oil when the stock pan was full. And lose it pretty quick, too.

But running a quart low can be dangerous, particularly on a Hemi, so be careful. But it still might be worth a test to see if your major oil consumption is limited to the top quart in the pan or not.

I experienced the same on a 383hp that was still factory build. The top quart always disappeared like clockwork. Fast and no real trace. Always. After a few years I did notice the back of the car had a faint brownish tanish film look. It was VR1 regular oil, not synthetic. Never saw it burn though.

I ran a road race pan on that car so it really wasn’t an issue for starvation.

Oddly I had a 72 440 factory build that smoked a little at high rpm’s guys would notice, but it didn’t use any oil. Ever. Go figure. I didn’t use vr1 back then.

My current car has an unknown history 440, supposed to be 72,000 miles. Haven’t caught it doing anything like that, but has a slight leak. First time I had to add any was this summer and it wasn’t much. It was kinda weird as it was full and then the oil disappeared by the next check. Starting to wonder if vr1 cleans out deposits and the burning begins. This one had synthetic when I got it, but I found it to make the leak worse so I went to the Dino.

My thought for best bang for buck and prevention of bigger issues all the sudden, would be a basic tear down for rings and bearings, plus check valve job. Check cam lobes. True everything up as necessary, that kinda deal. Hopefully you dont need pistons, but if you do, you were screwed long term anyway. I wouldn’t stroke it or do any porting etc.

the other area is through the spark plug/tubes. Several companies made a press in Aluminum socket that uses an o-ring to seal against the out side on the spark plug tube. I believe milodon , barton, mancini and possibly a few others offer them. the current ones will not work on aluminum heads without modification.

If I pull it down , it will get pistons no question simply for the compression it has. So, getting away that cheap aint gonna happen. Thus my original question " Stroke it or not " . And deep down I just dont feel that need.


And I plan to pull valve covers to do the valves in the spring. And plan is to install the milodon tubes at that time. Because it does get oil in a couple tubes, even though the tubes were new about 2 years back.
I'll look into cking / doing valve seals at that time.

Yea,,,,MY money.
Unless of course you're offering ???????


Come on Mike you know you want to ? I'll let you take it for a drive next summer if you do ,,

LoL

Can you guys explain further in terms of "the top quart would disappear" I'm not getting that.

When I put my engine together I marked the oil pan (milodon 31580) in capacity/level. I found it was less capacity (than advertised) when reaching the level of the windage tray, but never experienced a disappearing quart after starting.

A freshly built motor will trap oil in the low points in the casting around the lifter bores and in other above the crankshaft centerline in places that will not drain back into the oil pan on the first start up also in the oil galleys :and on every surface inside the motor that didn't have oil splashed or split on it while being assembled shruggy:

When you fill to the full mark on the factory dipstick, the engine will quickly lose a quart. It won’t go below being a quart low. The one I was talking about did that regularly. It became normal to me so I didn’t freak out after seeing that happen awhile. It’s puzzling to have happen. You don’t see Dino oil burning out the exhaust, the plugs don’t foul, it runs perfect, it’s sealed up. It just goes away. If it were valve seals it should keep going down after first quart. Or you’d see it out the tailpipe.

The one I’m talking about had a 31580 and I resealed the entire engine when I did the chain and put it in the car the first time.

I have heard speculation that it has something to do with the crank vaporizing the oil at that level when run hard. Which would explain the particulars of the problem. I don't know myself why it happened.

I can tell you that I have seen it many times. On stock engines in particular. We used to have to keep a sharp eye on our oil level. It needed to be about a quart low in order not to be adding oil regularly. At the same time, we didn't want it to get much lower due to the risk of losing oil pressure under hard accel or decel. Fortunately there usually wasn't much change when kept a quart low unless the engine was getting tired.

But the top quart of oil in big blocks had a nasty habit of exiting the engine some way or other. I have never experienced that with any small block. Has anyone experienced that with the small blocks?

Mine will continue to drop / lose oil.

I'll get a slight puff of smoke " sometimes " out the tail pipe. Sometimes when I romp on it a little .

I have some leaks but nothing that leaves more than a dime size spot on the garage floor at times. Nothing I feel leaks enough to be an oil usage leak. Nothing on the bottom or backside of the car after a trip.


I'm driving it to Phoenix today and then back home tomorrow. So I'll see how much it uses this trip.




When / IF I pull mine down . Pistons are pretty much worthless so they will become desk ornaments. And If I thought I could offset the cost of the stroker lower end by selling off the crank and rods . Then I might upgrade.
But deep down I dont see that happening. Not enough to make it worthwhile to me anyway.


Thanks all for the feedback . it gives me some food for thought.

Something I thought of was the oil being thrown up into the bores by the crank, and that somehow got past the rings a bit at a time. Being that it was more oil than normally gets there. I’ve never heard this about other brand cars and really this is the first I’ve heard somebody else notice it. I told the people when I sold that car and they just sorta looked at me funny.

Also I’ve never had a small block do it. Had a 22,000 mile 79 truck in the mix. Others were high miles, but they didn’t use any oil and even didn’t leak like big blocks seem to when I get them.

I have a stock stroke and bore hemi 11.5 alum head solid roller. It will do everything you're looking for. As far as the pinging I'd almost consider changing to E-85 and enjoy it as is.

Maintain a certain level of HP and Torque while keeping the street-abilty.

Use less compression and more street friendly gas but make the same HP/TQ. Hemi's are detonation resistant. But 12.5 seems high.

Sometimes the stroker kit cost negates some costly machining: Crank Grinding, Rod Re-sizing. That may be more prevalent with the higher volume Small and Big Block kits. I didn't think there were many Hemi stroker kits out there.

I drove Troy's Hemi Dart back from Spring Fling 2 years ago. It's got a 472 stroker with I think 10.5 compression. Very mild easy cruising. Even with the cross ram. He has a 110 centerline on the cam. But when you get on it... It's another animal.

Thanks Steve, I want to talk to Troy next spring .

See you then

I built a 4.15 stroke .030 over hemi in a 66 block. Crank, rods, and piston set was available to me with CD of piston that supported 10 to 1 based on block decking and gasket choice. Even with the 4.15 stroke with mopar journals you have clearance issues to resolve. If your going to stroke bigger than it is a crank with chevy journals, with a stock block, otherwise you have block work to do in my opinion. A blue printed stock hemi motor will make plenty of torque and power. So to me, if it is not for racing, cost and penis size is what determines how big a motor you build if using original stock block. The more you over bore a 57 year old block the more risk to a crack/leak in my opinion.

Didnt think / know about these issues . So its Food for thought. Its the correct dated motor ( no vins on them in 66 ) And I really would rather not risk these kind of problems down the road.


Its 20 over now. And best I remember previous owner told me it has one maybe 2 sleeves in it already.

So odds are if there is this kind of risk . then stroke it is out of the question. The car is more than fast enough as it is for this old fart

for me my biggest concern would be $$$.
if you have a good stock crank then stay with the stock displacement.
if you need a crank then you might find a mild stroker rotating assembly the same or extremely close priced to stock parts. these parts might even be better quality than 50+ year old stock parts.
if you add displacement the chevy rod journal sized stuff is bolt in also.

yes.

It uses a little oil and if I set timing where it really wants to be to run the best. Race gas /. premium mix then becomes mandatory or it rattles like crazy , diesels on shut down something fierce. Ive got timing set at about 15 base right now and can get away with straight 91octane. And it will still ping slightly if I get stuck in traffic on a really hot day.



Dieseling on shut down usually means it lean. Which can also cause pinging. I have my timing locked out at 34 and no problems. Mine stared to do that and the intake gasket was blown. It was hard to figure out what was going wrong but my wideband alerted me. As bad as it was you'd think it'll be obvious but with a big cam and headers it wasn't. Get a can of brake clean start the car, rev it up a little and spray the heck out of it where the manifold meets the head. The brake clean will tell you if it's leaking and excess will evaporate quick and not hurt anything. Don't use carb cleaner it will melt paint and discolor everything. Solution I got rid of the Fel pro and installed Superformance gaskets and it cured every thing including the small amount of oil I was using.

Good luck, Mike

A friend passed along a tip to me that i'll pass out here. Setting dimples around the port with a drift helps prevent that. I would be checking for out of square also.

This hobby is about modifications and tinkering. The fact you are asking about a stroker means your lickin your lips and rubbing your hands together considering it. I say- if you have the means to do a stroker Elephant go for it! More cubes to tame those huge port heads and make for improved low end.

I've never really had a desire to build it as a stroker. Like I said. I don't race it or hardly beat on it. Outside of the occasional romp every once in a while. But is it really worth the upgrade if the lower end in mine is good and just needs refreshening and new pistons when that time comes? Hopefully that makes sense.


The original post was meant to ask. Why would you build one...unless it was a race car, street brawler or just for bragging rights?

I can see if if one is building one from scratch...then and only then. Maybe it's a no Brainer !!


In regards to better / more low end. I can up the gear to a 4.10 or maybe a 4.56 for more grunt off the line. But then,,, That takes away for my original intention and thats drive it . And drive it I do


A lot of people don't believe me when I say this. But I bought the car because of the color combination and the fact I helped build the car back in the early 2000s time frame so I know the car inside and out.
The Hemi just made that choice a little more expensive.

As a stroker there will be more ring friction at a given RPM and the engine will be less thermally efficient.

This is way down the list of desires of many owners, and that’s OK, but if you really strive to understand machines it can “bug ya” that it is not “better” in a deep sense especially if you realize how challenging each tiny advance is.

Same applies to making each part lighter AND stronger AND durable AND cheaper.

The old joke:
How’s your car project going?
- Way too much horsepower and too little traction!

Comes to mind.

The counter argument is:
Should my 1960’s model year automobile project be to retrofit in a “Flux Capacitor.”

Another joke:
Each year experienced lawyers grow more evil
and experienced engineers grow more picky.

In regards to the original question.
"Why build a stroker if not racing..."

There isn't a practical explanation. It's because we 'like' it. It's that simple.

If our only goal was to go fast in the most practical way possible, we'd all be driving used LS Corvettes. But we don't, because we like Mopars. We build Hemi strokers for the street because we like them, not because they make sense.

I built a 528 Hemi with iron heads for the street. It has somewhere between 10 and 15 thousand miles on it and uses oil the same way other have described, about quart low and then it's fine. It has a tiny stock style cam and 10:1 compression. If you're fine with how your car drives already, I wouldn't stroke it unless you just plain want to.

73DAD wrote: "There isn't a practical explanation. It's because we 'like' it. It's that simple."
Exactly - spot on! At our age if you have the $ why the heck not? Stroker kit will have more cubes and light weight components- Im sure a HYD roller cam will be the standard. Have an ultra powerful responsive street engine that is superior to the stock offering from Mopar 50 plus years ago. Big displacement big power all while utilizing a mild cam, compression and driver friendly ring and pinion ratio.

JMHO,

A 4.25" stroke is perfect for a Hemi, besides the displacement of adding more than an extra cylinder's worth of cubes you are also taking a whole lot of bobweight out of the bottom end. keep the cam mild and that way you work the big ports earlier in the powerband but still utilize them up high (at least as high as a factory 426)

Where you get carried away is when you add big stroke AND a big cam, then in order to really pay off you need to rev it as high or higher than the stock stroke.

Build the best of both worlds, big block grunt at 2800-3200 like a 455 Stage 1 buick....but still have top end power and rev capacity of a hemi

Build it with a mild 238-242 ish @ .050 cam and you'll find more reasons you'll want to go drive it, as opposed to making excuses NOT to.

THATS the answer I was expecting.

Can you still use the stock oil pan, pickup tube and windage tray with this setup?

Yes you can but I 100% recommend you go with the 2.200" BBC sized rod journals as it typically gives you even better crank to rod clearance around the bottom of the bores than the typical 4.15 stroke/2.325" journals and a 7.100" rod will lighten the pistons up quite a bit as well.

Hemi's already have the 1/2" pick up so the only thing you might need to do is clean-up/smooth the casting around the pick-up tube where the pick-up threads into the block.

Dang- could not be stated better.

I am a believer in “The wisdom of Moparts.”

Concerning “state of the art” of piston crown design,
what is the ideal replacement piston design for a stock stroke 426 Hemi
designed to not just survive,
but optimize 91 pump gasoline?

So much has been discovered since street 426 Hemis were sold to the public.

What 3 people still alive qualify as
“highly knowledgeable and bluntly honest”
about the 426 combustion chamber
and the shape its floor should be?

I built my wedge that way. 9:1, 500 hp, 600 ft/lbs on 87 regular and more than enough bottom end torque to launch a 4800 lb New Yorker around with authority with 3.23 gears. 4.15 stroke.

He said it's a street car and it sounds like he drives it further than the local Dairy Queen. I'd build a 9:1 4.25 stroke tractor motor with a power brake friendly cam profile and enjoy the no drama able to drive it cross country street manners that can still roast tires or dust a 911 on a 60 mph roll on.

Kevin

If you are going to be a bear, why not be a grizzly? I'd stroke that Hemi, get a minor port job on the heads, 3/4 roller cam, 10.5:1 compression.

Look, the 425-460 horse of a stock Hemi was a big deal in 1966-1967. Today, it's nothing. Don't embarrass the Hemi legend by building an engine that won't keep up with the LS.

The factor of embarrassment is based on the stroke?

If so I'll put 10k up against this car heads up no matter what displacement it ends up at.

I’m stroking both of mine 4.15 x 4.31 iron head in the 66 Belvedere and 4.5 x 4.56 aluminum head in the 64 Savoy, both with 12.5 pistons. If I have to put 15 gallons of race fuel in them to go to the Queen so what, a dang meal for the wife and I is an easy $50 now and the smell of race gas is so sweet.

No. It's the whole package. He says it is a purely street car, not a race car. But inevitably, he will be rolling down the freeway at 70 and some other hot car is going to pull up along side and floor it. He will be a lot less likely to be embarrassed if he has 650 horse under the hood than 450. And it is a whole lot easier and better street mannered to make 650 horse with the extra stroke.

Yes. Mine is purely street not race.

I really don't care if I win or lose in a situation like this. The car is more a bucket list to own for me than anything combined with a nice cruiser. I can smash every one in a great while just for grins. NOT something for street creds or bragging rights in any way shape or form

Im probably at least a year away, maybe more for giving this real serious thoughts on how to actually build ,,,or not.


I truly understand the desire to go that route. But Im simply not the kid I used to be that wanted a top level fast car like that.

That said, If I pull it down and happen to find a crank issue . Then I will give some serious thoughts to build it with a little more ummmmph

Daily drove a '69 Hemi Roadrunner for several years. Small cam, headers, electronic ignition. Super Track Pack 4-speed car. I never felt like it was lacking for power. Just a strong, cool cruising machine. Wish I still had it.

I'm sorry Joel, I apologize. I took this the wrong way the other day but I understand what you're saying and agree.

No replacement for cubic displacement.

Can’t be sure what age I was when I first heard that
but probably before age 10.

Great love of stroke shines through in this thread.

No love of the wonder of nitrous has popped up -yet.

How engines work is nearly magic,
and the closer you look at little details the more “wow, that’s amazing” moments happen.

Another thing that comes out is the “winter dreaming” of what future tinkering one might do.

Ok, question.

On these large stroker engines are headers a requirement
What about head work or cam profile , stock intake and carb setups etc etc
Torque conv upgrades, rear axle ?

( mine is an auto with about a 2800/3000 stall and 3.54 dana )

I'll be honest, Im not a big fan of the convertor , IMO takes far too much throttle to get it moving, especially cold.

And more torque from more inches will only make the converter seem more sluggish on the street.

I fought this issue on my 540. It was just too 'mushy' below 3,500. I wanted a snappier, crisper response at low engine speeds. Like when I was cruising and driving around town. I tried PTC twice, but I wasn't happy with the results. I ended up sending it to UCC, back when Lenny was still there. He opened the converter, called me and said there wasn't anything else off the shelf he could do to tighten it up any more.

BUT! He had a couple of tweeks he could make and had some suggestions for me to do on my end. Now that helped a noticeable amount. The car moves off better and is almost as crisp and responsive as stock. And it cost less than $350. Lenny's the man! Or was the man, anyway.

Andy did it. I thought there was a magazine article somewhere for it. Found a thread on FABO.


https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/sniper-on-a-big-block-stroker.409379/

I have a stoke bore with a 4.15" crank. From what I remember the cost of the rotating assembly for the 4.15" stroke was the same as the stock 3.75" stroke. I was also told that a stock stroke 426 would have less low end torque than the 440 I was replacing it with. I went with the 472 instead of the 528 because the 528 required a siamesed block and I didn't want to give up any cooling capacity for hot days.

We did 1 3/4" headers and they work fine on my 505. I also use a 2800 rated 11" stall converter that works great with a 3.54 gear.

You really should have some type of head work done to take advantage of the larger stroke. I tried using an 8 3/4 and broke it in short order. Put a Dana or 9" in and never look back.