Should a 383 4 speed burn the tires from a roll?

My 1967 Belvedere II is a 383 4 barrel car with a 4 speed. It has the 68 383 hp cam (268/284 .450"/.458") and a 68 intake and carb with 68 exhaust manifolds. It is a low mileage car, but was drag raced in the late 60s. I took it out the other day. Although I have owned it almost 4 years, I've never tried spinning the tires. I tried to do it from a 10 mph roll, but it wouldn't do it. It didn't bog, but he low end just feels lazy. It seems to run really good once it gets to 3000 rpm.

Shouldn't it be able to spin bias ply F70-14 tires? Not that I am trying to win a burnout contest. I've just always felt the bottom end performance was lacking, so I did it as a test.

Thoughts?

From 10pm on F70s……yeah…it should, assuming you are in first gear.

I had a 66 Belvedere with a 361 automatic and it would do a rolling burnout with 3.23 gears Take a look at your timing curve first then check your accelerator circuit on the carb. I had the light springs in the distributor so I had full mechanical advance at 1800 RPM. I had an old Weiand dual plane with a 3310 Holley.

Gus

Clutch slipping?

Lot's of variables to say yes or no. It takes a lot of torque to break the tires loose on a roll. I would check the timing as suggested but IMO it's asking a bit much out of a stock 383. What's the RPM at 10MPH in 1st gear?

Agree, but there's some missing info here like what rear gear and if it has Suregrip or not?

My 383 4 speed Roadrunner with 3.23 suregrip would not break the tires loose from a roll.

My '68 383 727 Roadrunner with 3.23 suregrip would not break the tires loose from a roll either....but would from a stop with brake torquing it.

It could be. The clutch does feel like it is nearing the end of its life, but the rpm didn’t jump up when I hit the gas.

I forgot to mention, it is a 3.23 Suregrip.

I don’t know off the top of my head. I was watching the road when I did it!

Probably not
My 1963 415 stock (not blue printed yet) HP Max wedge Belvedere automatic with the stock converter in it wouldn't spin the F78x14 from a ten MPH roll with 4.56 gears in it when i bought it in 1973

Maybe the timing is a little retarded, maybe the timing chain is getting sloppy? Maybe the throttle linkage isn't opening the carb all the way?

Or maybe a little of all three.

Tom

Even with all of those corrected I still don't think it will "burn the tires" from a roll with 3.23 Suregrip.......well not on a dry road.

I’ve seen it twice in my lifetime where the factory timing chain was not marked correctly and the timing was off. In both cases, it was retarted. One was on one of my 340s I installed in a truck. It had no low end torque but ran like a scalded dog after 3500 rpm. I built it before I knew anything about decreeing a cam. I degreed it when I pulled the motor and installed it in a car. With the marks lined up properly, it was 8 degrees retarded. Then a friend was building a 340 and noticed the piston was way down the hole when he was lining up the timing marks on the chain. He called me to degree it and it was off one tooth and 16 degrees! That 340 had always been a dog. I used that knowledge when I built my jr dragster motors. I retarded my big 7.90 motors ( 3 x 3.5) 4 degrees. It kept them from spinning the tires at the hit but they ran 88 mph at the stripe. They would pull hard on the big end. I sold one motor to a friend and he sent it off for a rebuild. It slowed down 4 mph!

Way too many variables.

Type of tire, type of surface, how well suspension works... For example, my car doesn't spin a tire off the hit but also runs a 1.36 60 ft. time.

The only way to know what you are dealing with is to get some time either at the dragstrip or with a dragy.

Most cars of this vintage desperately need a distributor re-curve. Throw some Mr. Gasket #925B springs in it, set the timing total at 34* and make sure the mechanical advance works correctly.

I've probably had about a dozen 383s and a few 440s in '67-'70 B-bodies through the years.
Stock, some were definitely stronger than others.
A couple of the AT cars would definitely light 'em up from a dead stop - probably torque multiplication via the converter.
I don't recall if all the AT cars would, though, but 2 stand out in that regard. Most all had 3.23 SG and got radials for street driving.
Of the 2 383 4-speed cars I currently own, one is markedly stronger than the other, but it was blueprinted with NHRA-max CR from its days as an F/Stock car and the other is a stock rebuild.
Both currently have 3.23 gears & SG & same tires.
Bring the revs up a bit and both will light 'em off, but I haven't bothered trying that from idle.

Jigsaw is a 383 4 barrel with a 280/474 cam. 727 with 11" converter and 3.91 gears. 255-60-15s.
It will peel out from a dead stop.
It will smoke the tires when power braking.
It will not smoke the tires from a 10 mph roll BUT if I had a 4 speed, bringing the rpms up to 3000 and dropping the clutch would do it....theoretically.

383 from a roll is a big ask to light the tires. Potentially with a clutch dump while rolling, maybe.

I'm going to say with what you describe , pretty much stock , no it won't . I have a 69 383 4 spd Dart GTS with 3.91's and it wouldn't break them loose on a roll ...

Rev it to 4grand, sidestep the clutch and it's a different story ...

Same here John, well sort of with my '69 GTX 440 4-speed and 3.54 and 255/60-15's on the rear it won't break rear wheels loose on a roll in the dry. Have to figure that the car on a roll has a lot of traction already to move the what nearly two-ton car, so overcoming that traction will take some torque and HP. And with Suregrip that traction is now divided by two or is that multiplied by two? At a dead stop with no tire rotation, it's easy to spin them versus overcoming the moving forward traction already there. Probably do it turning and unweighting the inside tire but difficult going straight.

Thanks for all the input. I will check the timing chain for stretch. It has a Hi-Rev 7500 electronic ignition on it, so I'm hoping that timing curve is decent. The initial timing is set to 12 BTDC and when I have tried to advance it further, the crappy California gas can't keep it from pinging.

After reading some of your stories, it appears I am expecting too much from a stock 383. It's a survivor, so I'm not going to hop it up. It's mostly a cruiser for me.

The balancer ring may have moved. You'll need to confirm the timing mark really is at tdc

being a survivor, it's imperative to check top dead center, and if the balancer is off, look it over very carefully for deterioration of the rubber ring.
in my opinion, if it has moved due to the rubber ring allowing the outer ring to move, i would replace the damper. you don't want it to come apart during "play time".
after replacing the damper, check your timing closely to make sure you don't have chain issues.
you will more than likely have to disassemble the distributor and weld up the weight slot, thereby allowing you to set initial timing at 15+ degrees [depending on your combination] and have 34-36 total when all in.
you can start spring experimenting with removing the factory heavy spring and starting there. make sure when you have the distributor out, the weights move freely, and return to rest freely as well. you will need to check the weights and advance plate for wear or burrs, which can cause sticking to occur.
after the mechanical curve is sorted, you will then need to start playing with the vacuum advance. if you can get 50ish degrees advance while cruising at ???? rpm under no load, you will obtain gas mileage you would probably not get by not using this feature on your distributor.
just my own personal experience playing with distributors over the years.
your mileage will vary.

I see 34 and 36 degrees total mechanical timing mentioned a couple times.
Waaaay back, I used 38 per the Direct Connection manual (383). Is gas that bad now? I run 35 on my 11.25:1, iron head 360 w/ 93 octane. No issues.

I bought my Roadrunner new after I got out of the Navy. Bone stock 383 4 speed 3.23 sure grip. It would not spin the tires on a roll. Playing with the timing didn't help. When I blew that 383 engine up while racing, I went to a 440. A 440 has been in my car ever since. It will light the tires up on a roll.

Not a 383. My 9.0-1 360 will rip the 275/60's from a 10,20, almost 30 mph roll. If you you power shift with full throttle on it will keep spinning all the way thru 2nd and part of 3rd as well. 3.55 with a close ratio 2.47 1st . Yes a 383 should be able to easily brake loose.
Doug

Is that a bone stock 360?

Back in the day I had a 70 Road Runner with a small block installed. Hemi 4 speed, 3:23 Sure Grip with L 60 15 tires and traction bars. 1st gear, clutch engaged, throttle wide open, would break the tires loose when the cam started pulling, for about a month with a new clutch, until the clutch would start to slip. The clutch was pretty much junk in about 3 months. Sure was fun while it lasted! Definitely nothing stock in that setup.

A stock 383 motor? In a drag car? I wouldn't expect it, but a few might surprise you. Some were definitely stronger then others. I beat on a lot of 383 Mopars in those days, if they hung around long, they didn't stay stock.

Did you recurve the distributor ... shorten the mechanical advance .. before advancing it that far, Stock Chrysler distributors , even those sold thru Direct Connection and Mopar Performance, have 30 degrees of mechanical advance so it's not a wonder why it pings at higher RPM.

Yeah, several people have said that. I don't know if it pings at high rpm, because when I advance it at all, it pings at lower rpm, so I back off the throttle. Clearly, I have some tuning to do.

Had a stock 1968 383 4 speed car with 3.23s. It would not spin the tires from a roll in first at any speed. 10 mph is probably the worst speed/rpm to hope the torque challenged 383 will spin the tires. What is that? 1300 rpm?

From a roll in first at 3000 rpm, it should jump pretty good, but still won’t spin the tires.

No its not. But it's pretty mild 220@.050", true 9.0-1 runs on 87 octane, 650 carb, dual plane intake, headers. Tall 27" 275/60 tires with only a 8.77 SLR. The last stock 383 I had was a 68 Dart GTS 4 speed. And yes it would spin from a roll with 255/60, 3.23, 2.66 1st 4 speed, completey untouched.
Doug

my first new car was a 1968 3834spd 3.55 gear road runner. it wouldn't sing the tires in 1st gear from a roll, even with those slippery goodyear wide boots.

Put the timing back to stock spec , 5BTDC till you get the distributor recurved. 4secs flat has an easy kit to limit mechanical advance.

With all the yes it will no it won't one thing that has not been mentioned is pavement conditions. IE: wet, dry, dry but dusty, sand, salt etc.
the only stock 383 I owned that would break the tires loose on a roll was if made a right turn and nailed it in low entering the turn
Straight line, dry clean pavement, NADA.

Clutch slip ? Throttle response ?

Get a dial back timing light. Only time the engine for total advance. 36 degrees all in max. Using an initial timing setting is a disaster waiting to happen. You have no idea about possible mods to the distributor. Also, verify the outer ring on the balancer has not slipped. Easiest way I can think of is to take a known good balancer, pull your crank pulley off and carefully compare the keyway orientation to the 0 degree mark on both balancers. You can also figure it out using a degree wheel to locate TDC but that is a lot more work. Good luck.

EASILY..MINE WOULD FRY EM FROM A 25 MPH ROLL..HAD 3;55S

No, Dan. That is false.
Try responding when you sober up.

Aw C'mon now, my 61 Dodge Seneca with a 225 and Spark-O-Matic shifted 3 speed beat every taxi cab in San Jose and smoked the tires all the way through 3rd gear, (the smoke may have partly been due to the exhaust being routed into the rear wheel wells LOL )

I will admit that some of the taxi cab drivers may not have known we were racing

With all these "no it won't" answers I'm wondering why not. I had a stock 69 Superbee that would light em up at a roll. Stock 383, 4speed, 3:55 rear and F70's. The first time it happened, it surprised me but, it would do it consistently, dry asphalt, 5-15 mph.

Wheel spin has much more to do with the tires than engine power. Goodyear Polyglas and Polyglas GT lit up with ease. Penny's Scat Trak 60's were tough to spin. When we bought my wife's '93 Ramcharger, whatever tires were on it, could hardly keep it from spinning. When I swapped the Michelins off her old '84 Ramcharger, wheel spin went away.

Just for fun, videos from back in the day, a '69 GTX auto and a '69 Hemi Charger 500. Note the wheel spin on what I suspect were factory original Polyglas tires.

Cool videos. I don't know what others see, but both those 2 red cars look panther pinkish on my screen.

Same here, suspect deteriorated video tapes. I think the GTX has 3.23 gears and the Charger, 3.54 gears.

Uh, I did!

In case I didn’t mention it, the pavement was clean and dry.

I was able to check the timing chain for stretch. It is fine. It was all I was able to do because I tweaked my back while leaning over the grille.

Me too

Some are missing some important facts here.
it is a 67 383.
It has a 68 cam.
It was drag raced in its past.
What is the OP definition of "burn the tires"?


Lots seem to want to compare a 67 383 to a 68 or 69, or even a 70 383. The 67 still had the low, flat intake and likely lower compression and would have been a lower HP then the 68-70 versions. There is no mention on which intake it has. We have no idea how that 67 motor is/was. That is important.
It has a newer cam, We assume it was installed correctly, but maybe not. All mechanics are not created equal either. Just a cam swap might have made it better, or worse then it was originally.
All 383s were not created equal, right out of the factory, one car to the next in line, some ran better then others, and some much better then others. Was this 383 a weaker one?
There could have been lots of improvements on the rear suspension to add more traction during its drag race days, or not. We have no idea.
We don't know anything about the condition of the clutch. or the rear end, or the trans, or the suspension, all of which could play into spinning the tires.
We don't even know for sure what the OP's opinion of "smoking the tires" means. Is he expecting a bleach burn out type of "burn the tires" or a break the tires loose kind of thing. Maybe he is expecting black marks left on the street, do the modern Polygalas tires leave black marks? Not many modern tires leave black marks anymore. Could be he is spinning the tires and doesn't know it because there is no smoke, no noise, or no marks on the street.

OOPPS my bad, Sorry

In my original post (might wanna go back and reread it), I mentioned it had a 68 cam, intake and carb installed along with the later style exhaust manifolds (not the original logs).

Regarding the mechanic that installed the cam, carb and intake, it was Carlon Hine at Hine Motors back in the day. I’m pretty sure Carlon knew what he was doing. At that time, the car did have headers, but they were removed later on in favor of the manifolds after it’s drag racing days were over. When it was drag raced, it ran 14.30s at 98 mph with slicks & 4.10s and was class winner at York US30 dragway as well as Sunset Drag Strip. 3.23s were put back in after it’s drag racing days were over.

It does have an adjustable pinion snubber, so maybe that contributes to the lack of tire spin.

Maybe burning the tires is a bad choice of words. I just thought it might be able to at least squeal them a little bit. Not expecting a funny car smoke show.