1966 Belvedere I HEMI`s: let`s track them down by VIN#!

Don`t ask what Ma-MOPAR can do for you, ask what you can do for Ma-MOPAR!

Thus: let`s track down all the 1966 Plymoth Belvedere I HEMI-cars!

Should be a very solvable task, as very few were made: 79 w/4spd + 57 w/auto = 136 in total.

That`s the 2-door post-cars and they show VIN# „RL21H6…“: lightest, stiffest and thus fastest 1966-HEMI you could buy.

Anybody here knows one…or two…or three?

l’ll start and throw in 31 cars, that’s nearly 25%: 13 cars w/VIN#, 18 without. My chart is attached.

Due to the lack of a 1966 SuperStock RO/WO-car (or were any RO/WO21`s build?), many of the RL21H6`s saw use in Stock and SuperStock-classes: the name of Jere Stahl being the most popular connected to these cars.

But I dug out some more names: Don Grotheer, Arlen Vanke, Ken Heinemann, Sam Pannuty and Evans/Evans&Cleve also campaigned RL21H6`s.

For sure many privates entered them in official events or „just“ street-raced them.

Survival rate might be low...what makes them even more scare today.

Would be awesome if group-power could fill this blank spot in MOPAR-HEMI-history!

Thanks in advance!

P.S.: as any thread is worthless without pics, I attached some of the most popular 66 Belvedere I HEMI, the one of Jere STAHL, took part in all but the first 1966 Nationals and won all the 3 he took part in => A/S-CHAMPION!

Also attached pic of Mr. Don GROTHEERS red Drag-Car (class A/S, #862)...VIN# much appreciated.

STAHL-photos

Fox & Parsons in Van Nuys CA bought & ran a white Bel I.
Somewhere I have a photo of it.

My dad ordered one new in 1966. I wish there was a way to track his car down but I have no information on it whatsoever. If you click on or copy/paste the link below and scroll down to the bottom of the page you will see John Scotti Classics in Canada has two of them. Both blue/blue, one 4 speed and one automatic. The 4 speed is identical to my dad's old car and something I would love to own.

Link: https://classiccars.com/listings/find/1966/plymouth/belvedere

Edit: VIN listed for the automatic car is RL21H61240464, and 4 speed car is RL21H61178806

Thanks @ topside for joining in! The “FOX & PARSONS”-car as such is already in my list (#26), but any more info on this car would be much appreciated, especially VIN# ! That was a white car with tan interior.

EDIT: and here is a pic of it...I knew I had this car in mind from somewhere, look at the reversed drop-shaped hood-scoop! That was usually seen on other brands cars (do not nail me on the brand) and if memory serves me right, Big Willy’s 69 Daytona had that, too!

Also big thanks to you @IROC78 for chiming in!

@the 2 cars offered by Scotti: both cars already known and identified by VIN#, they are #6 and #8 in my list.

@your dad’s car: that is awesome, so we have info out of “1st and a half” hand ;-)

So your Dad had a dark-blue met ext / blue int / 4spd. car?

I will add your Dad’s car to my list (#32).

At which town/state/dealer did your Dad order his car?

Any special/unusual options (e.g. powerdiscbrakes/radio delete/heater delete) or things that make his car unique?

Maybe you have old paperwork from insurance, muncipality or workshops/garages: you might find the VIN# written there.

Any photos of your Dad’s car?

When/why did he sell?

Many questions, I know, thanks for your suport @IROC78 !

I can’t remember what time of the year but probably fall of 66. I was in high school (17) and across street at the pharmacy-doctors building I saw my first Hemi car, 1966 Belvedere I, red, red interior, auto, plain Jane, black wall tires, poverty caps. Driven by a nurse. Everyday I made a point of looking at it. Later on about ten years later someone said it was just sitting behind a house in next county. I tried to find it for a few years then gave up. Fast forward to today, 3 years ago a 66 Belvedere II hemi fell into my lap. My first Hemi car, amazing I think! To me the Bel I is the top prize (I love all post cars).

the reversed drop-shaped hood-scoop. Mainly a Ford scoop.

A friend of mine had an original 66 post Plymouth he bought without the drivetrain. We finally found all the engine pieces and about the time I was ready to build the engine he decided to sell the car. I really screwed up and didn’t try to but it. It was pristine inside and out. I’m guessing the motor was used in another project and the car left behind when my friend bought it.

I love them too as well as most of the low line cars compared to the high cars.

20 20 hindsight we all suffer from that, side note, my II came down the line with I taillights, staying that way I don’t care who says what!

That lady would have been definately worth an approach ;-)

Hi Toby. My apologies as I was unable to see your chart last time I posted, but I do see it now. Correct, my dad had a dark blue metallic/blue interior 4 speed car. It did have a heater and radio, but was a rubber mat car. He bought it at Grand Central Plymouth in Chicago. Unfortunately he rolled it in 1968 racing a Corvette on his way to pick up my mom on their first date. It rolled multiple times, both end over end and sideways. His insurance company, which I do remember him telling me was Banner Mutual, sent it to a hack body shop and once he got it back he said it was nowhere near right. He said the paint looked like it had been applied with a roller, and the headliner was hanging down. Not too long after he traded it in to a used car dealer on Ogden Ave in Downers Grove IL where he got $50.00 towards the purchase of the used Corvair he was buying for my mom.
He's told me stories about his car for my entire life, and it was just a year ago or so when he finally found a couple of pictures. I don't have a scanner, but I will have someone scan them and then post them here. Unfortunately he has no other records that would provide any further information on the car. It is almost identical to the 4 speed car Scotti has/had. My dad is pretty certain his car couldn't still possibly be around, but that is just speculation on his part due to how rough of condition it was in when he let it go. He told me he remembers exactly where he was when it turned over 100K miles, and that the Hemi was still going strong. Thanks Toby!

Married unfortunately

RL21H67275421 - was on eBay late 2011/early 2012 - "dark red metallic" / red interior / 4-speed car

RL21H67265820 - was on eBay a decade+ ago - "dark blue metallic" / blue interior / 4-speed car

already on your list - here's RL21H61272294 - "white" / red interior / 4-speed car

RL21H61278214 - "FEVER - "dark blue metallic" / blue interior / 4-speed car

RL21H61229076 was advertised back in '94 as the Jere Stahl car

Thanks for hinding me to the correct Brand X.

Was that a real HEMI-car? If so, any further information? VIN#, trans, color ext./int., sold when/where/where to? Thanks!

Reply to "6bblgt"`s posts ##3082344&#3082345:

Dan,

as always, you are a wealth of knowledge when it comes down to the numbers…and willing to share…THANK YOU!

So to „your“ cars in order you mentioned them:

RL21H67275421 – is #14 in my list and was running as „unknown6 (FBBO basket-case)“ until you supplied us now with the VIN#. So one more car tied to a VIN – great!

Are you sure about the ext. Color „dark red metallic“ (QQ1)?

Because after the ebay-auction of late 2011/early 2012 you mentioned, this car was offered in 2019 on FBBO.com and seller stated it was „red on red“.

So I assumed he meant „bright red“ (PP1), cause if it was „metallic red“ a seller would usually mention the „metallic“, because it is more upscale and might help the sale.

But of course, „red“ can be any red: light, bright, dark, monotone, metallic.

Seller @FBBO was member „Ronald Ford“, who was not seen for more than some days after he posted his ad. He also claimed this car was a „carpet delete“.


@RL21H67265820 – that one is new to me, awesome! Added it to the list (#36)


@RL21H61272294 – Yes, correct, already on my list (#25), but thanks for confirmation! Got a pic of the FT?


@RL21H61278214 („FEVER“) – also on my list already (#30 „unknown19“), but since quite recently and as unidentified. So thanks to your now provided VIN# we have one further car identified


@RL21H61229076 (STAHL-car) – thanks for supplying a VIN# also for the STAHL-car (#10 in my list)!!!

Update on the statistics:

- we´re up plus 5 car`s to now 36 of the 136 cars (a good 1/4)
- 1 new car came by moparts-member "IROC78" (#32),
- 1 other new car by moparts-member "6bblgt" (#36)
- 3 more new cars found be me (#`s 33, 34 & 35).
- 15 cars now identified by VIN# (plus 3 thanks to "6bblgt") / 21 cars VIN# unknown
- updated list attached to my intitial posting #1
- I have good reason to hope for VIN#`s for at least one more car: Mr. Bob Mazzolini is willing to support my quest and promised to look up his VIN# (car #19). I approached moparts-member "sixpacksteve" with the same request for "his" car (#35).

So let`s start to hunt down the remaining "TOP 100" ;-)

Here are pics of the “new” cars #33 “CANDY MAN” of Jim OWENS & #34 “OX-CART” of Trevor TURNER.

Maybe this helps to get their VIN# at least.

@#33 “CANDY-MAN”: cannot clearly read the class on the windscreen, but it seems like an “automatic”-class (x/xA). Any thoughts on that?

@#34 “OX-CART”: pic taken 1981 at Calgary International Raceway (CIR) in CANADA.

In the B bodies for sale section. Not sure if its on the list yet?

Yes, #5 in the list. But thanks anyway.

Thanks @IROC78, that is some good additional info! Especially because it was in such a hefty accident, the VIN# would be good to know: if the car (or the VIN#) is still arround, a buyer can check if the seller states correctly that this was an "in-accident-car" or if the VIN# was transfered to another hull ("re-body").

BTW: 100k mls for a HEMI-car is something...mostly these when on the market are claimed all to have under-100k-mls-actual, most even with very rediculously low mileages. Also proofs, that the HEMI is a solid piece of engeneering: if driven/maintained correctly, it holds up!

I want it

BTW: 100k mls for a HEMI-car is something...mostly these when on the market are claimed all to have under-100k-mls-actual, most even with very rediculously low mileages. Also proofs, that the HEMI is a solid piece of engeneering: if driven/maintained correctly, it holds up!

Here’s my friends nice over 100,000 mile car, was a one owner driven since new.

@cudaman1969: your friend’s car looks very nice! Always good when a car is driven frequently...what stops, that rusts!

@IROC78: if the photos are photos and not slides, you don’t need a scanner...just photograph each with your smartphone or tablet ;-)

I guess I am not alone if I say I’m really curious for seeing photos from your Dad’s car back in the day!

Don’t want to clog this post but I’ll clarify, my friend is second owner, the first used it as the family car for all the miles. Now it’s driven occasionally after complete restoration. It’s sweet.

Well I don't have a smartphone or tablet (I know) , but I was able to have a friend help me. These are the only two photos I have of my dad's car from back in the day. I'm really curious as to what he's doing sitting in the car while it's up on the jack, but who knows. I wish there was a way to track down the VIN through old insurance documents, the accident report with the Elmhurst IL police department, or old DMV records etc. The image isn't high enough quality to zoom in and get the partial front plate number either. He did tell me that he pulled the Hemi emblems off the fenders right away. I can still see something at the front of the fender although I'm not sure whether or not that is a flaw in the picture or something else he put on there in place of the emblems.

Thanks @IROC78 for this awesome trip back in time!!! Nothing beats original material from back in the day.

My thoughts::
- are these plastic covers for additional protection on the backrest of frontbench?

- interesting wheel-combo: stylish chrome one ins front, standard steelies in rear, but BOTH slim! The nice 62 behind the 66 wears the exact same combo! Or was your Dad at moment of photo just changing the 4 chrome wheels from the older to the newer car?

- interesting lifting-device, never seen that before!

- nice on-dash tach :-)))

- pic one shows how “bare” these Belvedere I’s came, even no chrome arround side-windows, love it!

- in contrast to that, I always wonder why Ma-Mopar put on the long beltline chrome-trim? Would have looked better/cleaner without and less holes in the sheetmetal (a.k.a. rust-traps) too. They could have just used that short “Bevedere I”-portion. They dropped that trim on the 67, but that has a lower rocker trim.
- cool your Dad removed the “Hemi” badges...more fun with/surprise to the general public on the road.

- as you mention the small enblem on front of front-fender, I think that is the “Commando V8” enblem. The models with the other V8’s (no-HEMI’s) came with that enblem. So I conclude your fathers car was an early car, that did not have the “426 HEMI”-enbleme (would be an lower rear of front fender, just below the “Belvedere I”-enblem). But instead your fahters car was a car built prior 01/01/1966 and thus only having a “HP2”-enbelem at FRONT of frontfenders, just where on your Das car know is the small red&chrom “Commando V8”-enblem. So your father substituted the “HP2”-callout and substituted it with the “Commando V8”-enblem. Very discrete!

So was your Dad’s car an early built car? When ordered, when delivered?


- if you have friends or family with law enforcement, DMV or insurance, you might be able too still track licence-plate-# and VIN#.

AND THE 62 SAVOY BEHIND IT! Two nice cars, wow. I was wondering on the seats too plus no seat belt plastic holders

Thank you for helping clear up the emblem mystery! I am going to show these pictures to my dad and see if it jogs any memories. He doesn't recall when he ordered or took delivery of the car. He was either 18 or19 when he took delivery of it (depending on the date) so I guess I will cut him some slack for not remembering all these years later. It's odd how our memory works though as he could tell me the exact street he was on when the odometer rolled over too 100K and he backed up so he could see it turn over again. He did tell me that at the time he didn't have the money to buy all four mag wheels at once so that's why only the fronts were on it. He doesn't recall why the plastic was on the back portion of the front seat other than to possibly protect it but it seems to me the lower portion of the seat would be more in need of protection than the upper.

I am on agreement with you on the beltline molding. I have a 66 Coronet Deluxe and it has similar beltline molding, but my 67 Belvedere II has no side molding other than on the rocker and I definitely prefer that look. My Coronet is just as bare bones as my dad's car was with no trim around the 1/4 window either.

The Savoy was my dad's friends car. Thank you cudaman for identifying it by year as my dad couldn't recall the specifics on that car other than that it was a 6cyl column shift that his friend converted to a floor shift. Thank you also for sharing the photo of your friends 100K mile hemi car as it is absolutely beautiful!

Tobias, do you happen to have a 66 Belvedere I hemi car yourself or did you just undertake the task of trying to document all of the ones that were built?

So the only problem I see with participating in this thread is that I see myself becoming obsessed with finding a 66 Belvedere I to build into a replica of his car.

Thank you again for shedding some light on a few unknowns regarding this car I really do appreciate it.

You’re welcome IROC. I know why your dad is sitting in the car with front end jacked up.. getting photos of the launch doing a wheel stand LOL, what I would do too! Your dad is a year or two older than me, cool, the great generation!

That was his exact reaction when I asked him what he was doing! I don't remember everything I was doing myself at age 18-19 but I'm sure a staged "wheelie" photo wouldn't have been out of the question. I definitely have a ton of respect for all of you in that great generation.

Looking at the picture of the emblem and the blue auction car, I think they may be HP2 emblems. They could be the Commando V8 emblems though, as I see a hint of red in the picture.

It's tough to tell, but I agree and also see a hint of red. However, having said that the emblem in the picture looks closer in size to the HP2 emblem. I did just locate another picture of the car though and will try to scan and post it tomorrow so we may have a bit more evidence to go by!

Interesting note on the HP2 emblem. Why would Chrysler use it up to Jan 1st then go with the 426 emblem the rest of year, then in 67 come back with the HP2 emblem then over to the 426 again?

Happened to remember this story about a no longer existing car. Pardon the photographed pages. Fifth page in next post.

No 5. For some reason you need to turn them right.

Tack så mycket for presenting that story to us, Mike.

Awesome you remembered this nearly 30yr old article covered a RL21H6-car.

Too sad this went to the scrapyard, but I guess this is was happend to MANY of these lowest-line HEMI-cars: I guestimate that a maximum of 50% survived.

Is the former owner Andy THOMAS here with us @moparts or does anybody know him? So he could be asked if he still knows VIN# or has docs/pics of that car.

I added it to my list as car #37 „unknown27“, dark blue, manual trans.

Will post updated list when we gathered some more new cars.

I used to race with a guy at Motion who had an HP2 car called 'Illinois Storm'. It was supposedly a real Hemi car that had a wedge put in. I will try to find out if it still exists.

@slantzilla: That would be great, thanks!

The Brand X Eliminator car still exists, but unfortunately the VIN tag is long gone. For some reason, I think Grotheer's car started life as a Slant 6. I know his '67 car did.

Really cool project! I've been doing the same thing for '66 Coronet Base Sedan Hemi cars, and also the '67 R0/W0 cars. I currently have about half of each VIN documented.

@my mission: both! Mostly driving me is the phenomenon, that to my knowledge in the very well documented “HEMI-sphere” nobody covered these very special 66 Plymouths yet.

The 68 BO/LO’s, the 67 RO/WO’s and the 65 RO/WO’s all are very well documented. But the hottest MOPAR of 66 did get no love yet.

@your Dad’s memory to new-car-delivery: it is quite simple, deduct your fathers year of birth from 1966 and you know how old your father was.

You can add some months to his age, if he received this 66model-car early (“HP2”-enblems) means somewhere arround Oct.1965 to Jan 1966. Was is cold/winter, before Christmas /NewYear when he received it?

Or was it warm(er), with plants and animals all over, then it was spring/summer 1966 and he receive a later car (“426HEMI”-enblems).

@sixpakdodge: great information on both cars. Any more flesh to the bones would be much appreciated, like where you got your information from and/or photos.

I do thank your for your work an the low line 66 Dodge Coronet HEMI cars and the 67 RO/WO’s. Where to find your lists? Or non-public?

Here is another picture I found that I know Cudaman will get a kick out of ! The emblem at the front of the fender is barely visible. You can definitely see there are no leaves on the trees in the pictures so it would have to been taken between the late fall and early spring months. My dad graduated high school in 1965 and remembers he was still driving his 63 Pontiac at the time (summer 1965). I'm guessing these pictures were probably taken late fall 1965 to early spring 1966 which would have made him 18 at the time as he wouldn't have turned 19 until April 1966.

I am not 100% sure but I think everything from Don's 66 was swapped to the 67.

Love it, I turned 16 in August 65. Your dad looks real happy sitting there, I’m guessing he street raced it a lot, and that 62 would have a Max Wedge in today, be hard to decide WHAT car to drive around each day!

The race cars for the "contract racers" (factory-backed guys) were often built up from a body-in-white and parts shipped from Chrysler.
A buddy of mine was a contract racer back in the '65-'66 era, and has stories about Chrysler air-freighting all kinds of stuff based on post-race Monday morning phone debriefs.
So, documenting a race car can differ from a street version, especially in the case of race cars that didn't get VINs.

Non-public. I've been trusted with a lot of info from various people. Not jeopardizing the trust I have gained. It's sort of a registry, but also a fact finding mission to dispel some rumors on the production of the cars. At a later date, I may choose to publish non-proprietary information. I have found that the SO numbers on the R0/W0 cars are sequential, but the vins are not. The vin range is so spread on these cars that there is no way they were built in the same day or even week for that matter.



That is correct on the '67. I wasn't sure on the '66.

there was a local guy that bought a 66 belvedere hemi car and turned it into a dirt track racer when new.
i do not remember where it was purchased.
this car ended up in the impound lot because of an unfortunate incident involving a fatality.
the guy was testing the car on a state road in front of his house and hit another motorist, killing him.
after the incident investigation was completed, the car was stripped of it's drivetrain and the body was crushed.
i remember looking at it through the chain fence at the impound lot, and seeing the large front page picture and article that was reported in the local newspaper.
as a side note, my wife became very close friends with this guy's daughter. she was my wife's first friend she made when she came to this area from minnesota.

That pic, too, of your Dad’s car makes me even more believe that he replaced the “HP2”-enblem with the more discrete red/black&chrome “COMMANDO V8”-enblem.

Giveaway is the “red”. If that still were the factory “HP2”-badges, there would be no RED.

Here is a pic of a car with “HP2”enblems from a very identical front/driverside-angle: looks different to your Dad’s car => not the smallest trace or RED in the enblem.

@Don Grotheers car (#22 in my list): I read these following infos as confirmation, that Don Grotheers (red) 66car was a real HEMI-car. And the other 66 (white) was not a factory HEMI-car.

NON PUBLIC?

In my opinion, you can “protect” these cars best by the opposite: going public!

Cause when the cars (and their VIN#) are publicly known, there is no room for crime and fraud with faked cars.

At least that is my approach by my thread here: to document an important piece of MOPAR-history by bringing owners and informations together and thus also protect potential buyers of faked cars.

Thanks @moparx, so one more new car, will add it as car#38 “unknown27 (destroyed)”.

Do you by chance remember any further details of that car: color ext. / colour int. / trans / VIN#.

Any photos taken of this “beast behind chains”?

Anybody knows if this is a real factory 66 HEMI-car?

Owner is Jason McCormack, youngest of 3 brothers, father Jack owns “McCormack Motorsports”.

Strange: could not find a homepage of that company. Maybe only on FB?

I'm with you there Tobias, as you can see a just a trace of red in each picture. I will be sure to let you know if I am able to locate any more pictures. Thanks again!

i will try to search the local newspaper and our library to see if there are any saved copies of the paper the accident was published in.
almost all, if not all persons of this family are gone now, and as to the pictures the family of this racer may have had, are more than likely scattered in the wind.
the newspaper has been bought many times over the years, so i'm not very confident of finding anything there.
the history center is expanding quite rapidly here, as they have purchased a very large building. that may be a place to look as well.
as for pictures taken through the impound fence, back then, i never gave it a thought. i didn't own a camera anyway, and "throw away-one time use" cameras were years in the future. poloroid cameras were around at that time, but were expensive.
from what i can remember, at least what the spiders will allow to show through the cobwebs, that car was a light color. white, light blue ? maybe i'm way off...........
i guess i have some "homework" to do. i will try my best, but i can't promise anything.

Sound‘s like a plan @moparx !

As sad as a fatal accident always is, WE cannot make it unhappen: so I am super curious to see a HEMI-Belvedere on page #1 of a newspaper, that is neither a sports- nor a Mopar-Collector-magazine!

I’m going to post some information with the help of my friend Joe Sica. First is RL21H61233725 a PP1 red hemi automatic.
Matt

2nd RL21H67298839 AA1 silver hemi auto.
Matt

3rd RL21H61179108 QQ1 hemi 4 speed. added information HP2 emblems, manual brake, manual steering, radio delete, bench seat ,SPD C13.
Matt

4th RL21H61179112 AA1 silver 4 speed. The information I have from the saved ad is as follows.
STUNNING 1 OF 1 B SERIES PLYMOUTH. THIS TWO DOOR SEDAN IS COMPLETELY RESTORED AND ALL ORIGINAL. SCHEDULED TO BE PRODUCED ON MONDAY DECEMBER 13,1965 AT THE ASSEMBLY PLANT IN LYNCH ROAD MICHIGAN. RESTORATION WAS COMPLETED APPROXIMATELY 4 YEARS AGO, SINCE RESTORATION THIS BELVEDERE I HAS BEEN APPRAISED WITH A STATED VALUE OF $135,000!
THE CARE THAT THIS CAR HAS HAD SHOWS THROUGH AND THROUGH. OPTIONS INCLUDE: SILVER METALLIC EXTERIOR, BLUE CLOTH & VINYL INTERIOR, TRANSAUDIO AM RADIO, ELECTRIC CLOCK, CUSTOM RETRACTABLE SEATBELTS, 426 HEMI V8 MOTOR, 4 SPEED MANUAL INLAND SHIFTER, BLUESTREAK 7.74 X 14 GOOD YEAR TIRES AND DUAL EXHAUST.
THIS BELVEDERE I COMES WITH THE GALEN REGISTRY REPORT, STATED VALUE REPORT AND MORE. IF YOU ARE A MOPAR COLLECTOR THIS IS ONE YOU CANT MISS OUT ON.
Matt

5. RL21H61181428 was on eBay. Black exterior blue interior 4 speed.
Information from eBay ad. attachments will have the corrected information

The 1990 NHOA vin list that was published has these vins on it.
6. RL21H61214657 QQ1 4 speed last name at the time was Redmond
7. RL21H61221638 black 4 speed Rotheberger
8. RL21H61264992 Canada / Gorhan
9. RL21H61265081 Tan automatic /Adams
10. RL21H61266886 blue 4speed / Campbell
11. RL21H67299813 last name Sautel
Matt

12. RL21H61228226 white auto Canada
Matt

Hi Matt!

Just when I thought this thread might starve, then you come arround throwing in 12 cars WITH their VIN`s…what shall I say?

THAT IS AWESOME, BIG THANKS to both YOU AND YOUR FRIEND JOE !!!

In short: we have 10 totally new cars and 1 new VIN to the already known cars.

So I`ll work through your 12 cars in the order of mentioning:

1. RL21H61233725 => car including VIN was already on my list (#2)

2. RL21H67298839 => car was already on my list (#21 „unknown12“), but thanks to you I can tie down a VIN to it 

This car was on ebay in 3/2021 and during that featured by barnfinds.com, but entries were too old, so I could not get more infos/photos.

To my taste, this car has a stunning color-combo and it would be a tough decision to tell if I would prefere the black-on-red one or this most. In doubt, I would take both ;-)

3. RL21H61179108 => BINGO, new car & vin to me! Thus added to my list as #39. Do you by chance have more info on it: int.color / heater or radio-delete / or even fendertag?

Regarding the stated exterior-color „QQ1“, may I hind that „QQ1“ is not a „maroon“, but a dark-red-metallic, which fits to what I see in your picture. Sorry for nitpicking…“know-it-all-mode“ off ;-)

4. RL21H61179112 => and another new car & vin, added to my list as #40. Do you by chance have more info on it: int.color / brakes / heater or radio-delete / or even fendertag ?

5. RL21H61181428 => new car & vin, added as #41. Do you by chance have more info on it: int.color / brakes / heater or radio-delete / or even fendertag ?

6. RL21H61214657 => added as #42.

7. RL21H61221638 => added as #43.

8. RL21H61264992 => added as #44, BUT: could there be a typo in the given VIN#: not „992“, but „299“ instead? Reason I am asking: we have a car with VIN „299“ in the list (#3), that is also from CANADA.

The #3-car (299) is pretty good documented. Do you have more infos on your #44-car (922)?

Regarding ammount of cars originally produced for CANADA: I heard roumors that they only made 10 RL21H6-cars, one of each exterior colour.

But there were 12 colors available for a Belvedere I (other BELV/SAT`s could get up to 17 colors).

Or was intended to say „Each CDA-car hat a different ext-color“? Then 10 CDA-cars might still be correct.

Can anyone breed more flesh to the question, how many „RL21H6“ were produced originally for CANADIAN market or even other EXPORT markets?

9. RL21H61265081 => added as #45, BUT: could this be the same car as #16 „unknown7“ of Ralph from ralphsrapidtransit.com?

His #16-car is now dk-blue-met / red int., but if you look up his restauration-phots, his #16-car was beige/tan „XX1“ originally (to my eyes a shade too dark for WW1-white). His interiour originally also was tan (L1T).

10. RL21H61266886 => added as #46. Any info on what „blue“ exterior-paint: light, light-met. Or dark-met.?

11. RL21H67299813 => added as #47. Any more infos more info on it: trans / colors / brakes / heater or radio-delete / or even fendertag ?

12. RL21H61228226 => added as #48. Any more infos more info on it: brakes / heater or radio-delete / or even fendertag ?

AGAIN, wow and thanks: we jumped up to 48 cars now, which is more than 1/3!

I have added all the information to the original post for each car that I have. I am also attaching a copy of the 1990 NHOA vin list information. What is listed on those vin numbers is really all that I have.
Matt

Matt,

thanks for adding additional informations to each car.

May I ask to doublecheck your posting #3085272 about your 5th mentioned car (black): the added infos is identical to your 4th car (silver) and clearly refere to that silver car within the text.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...-track-them-down-by-vin.html#Post3085272

Should be updated.
Matt

I posted about the 'Illinois Storm' car on the Motion Raceway page on FB. It appears to be a ghost, no replies.

Matt, thanks for corrected update on your car #5 (black)!

@slantzilla: thanks for reaching out on FB to get information on the “Illinois Storm”-car you mentioned.

That was the car you are not sure about if it was a factory HEMI-car, correct?

Yes, that is correct.

13. RL21H67296930

14. RL21H67299759

15. RL21H67259797

16. RL21H67261060

17. RL21H67269624 red on red column automatic
All this information again is with the help of my friend Joe Sica who put the time in at ever show to document the cars.
Matt

there was one back in 1972 in Eldora Iowa. The dealership went belly up due to one of the brothers tapping the account or so the story went. They were into the performance cars and drag racing at area strips. Before the bank siezed the assets they transferred several vehicles at cost to another implement business they owned. they also bought a bunch of unwanted cars at the auction one of which was a 64 Polara with a smoke trans. I bought that from them for I think 35 or 75.00.
They also had a red on red 66 Belvedere 1 hemi /auto car missing it's engine trans and other associated parts. A local 18 year old bought the car for 300.00 and was going to put a 273 auto in it and use it as a driver. I remember him saying I bought basically a brand new car for 300.00 that just needs and engine and trans.
Before I left the area he was driving it around with snow tires on the back. I often wonder where it wound up.
there were a few others as well but only 1 66

At first, BIG thanks again to you - Matt - and your buddy Joe for supplying 5 more totally new cars!!!

Specificly at your car #17 (EDITED), the red/red/auto-car at the show: when and where was this Show? Any more infos on the car and its history/owner(s)? Reason asking is I want to find out if this car might be car#31 in my list ("unknow21"), because it is the same colors&trans.

That "unknown21" was supplied by fbbo-member "Big bill" and is a class-racer (A/SA), see attached photo from back-in.the-days. First speculations were made by one other fbbo-member, that "unknown21" might be Don Grotheers car. But I doubted that for 3 reasons:

- (1) Don Grotheer wouldn`t have use a completely unmarked car to race on a strip
- (2) Don Grotheers car was not an automatic
- (3) the stickers in the rear-windows differ from Don Grotheers car

Commonsense supported my conclusion.

2nd EDIT: Another possibility might be, that one of either 2 aforementioned red/red/auto-cars is even the one meber TJP just mentioned here in #3085732, which the 18yo kid bought in 72 without drivetrain, put a 273/auto-combo in and used as a daily even in the winter ;-)

Tim, thanks for mentioning this car.

I added it to my list as #54 "unknown28".

EDIT says: forget my question, you alredy mentioned it was an automatic-car! Do you remember if this car was - FROM FACTORY - also an automatic car? Or did the kid converted from a manual car?

Maybe I got this wrong, so I ask to clarify: did I get it right, that "the kid" bought the RL21H6 in 1972 and assumed "I bougt basically a band new car"? If so, at that time the car was 6yrs old already...and cars of that age at that time were usually far from "basically new".

I decided to add the car that member "slantzilla" mentioned initially in post #3083178 to my list (#55 "unknown29").

Reason is, he said it was a car with HP2-emblems on the fenders but with a 440 put in. As I assume nobody at that time would have retrofitted "HP2"-enblems to a car, that was not a real RL21H6.

Because at that time, you wanted prestige and everybody to see it. So if you retrofitted emblems to your car, my opinion is you would have used "HEMI"-emblems,.. as they tell the people prestige.

Instead "HP2"-emblems don`t tell "look, what I am".

Just my 2 cents.

@slantzilla: do you by chance remember any details to the car e.g. ext./int. colors, transmission. When and where did you see this car?

Updated the list, we´re now up to 55 cars.

By that we exceed 40% now!

So the 50%-mark comes in sight already - wow, good job everybody!!!

#7 on the list just sold in Sept at Mecum auction. I think it went for some crazy money, but looks very original / vintage. Great pics and documents of the car see linky:

https://www.mecum.com/lots/ES0922-531920/1966-plymouth-hemi-belvedere-i/

yes you got it right, To explain his comment, the car had less than 2,000 miles on it (1,8xx as I recall) and had been stored inside it's entire life
Almost showroom fresh. And yes it was a factory 426 with an auto on the column. they even put the original tires, wheels and hubcaps on it when he bought it.

Thanks for confirmation, Tim!

Yes, @Droop69, that’s where I got my info on #7 from ;-)

Was really nice to see such a well documented time capsule!

As it is marked “sold”: anybody knows for what price?

Estimate was “60-70k$” by mecum.

BTW: any Canadian Mopar-fellows here aboard or people who knwo the Mopar-scene there?

Cuase there is a 66 RL21H6 presented on youtube by a French-Canadian monsieur (user “Gilbert R”).

Car belongs to his friend, is a 4spd, dark blue. it is #27 “unknown16” in my list, as I could not tie down a VIN to this car.

Does anybody you accidentally know “Gilbert R” or his friend, so that one could reach out and we hopefully find out about that car’s VIN?

Or does anybody even know this car’s VIN already?

As the video of this car is older (uploaded 7yrs ago) and this car is same color/trans-combo, this might be the same car as the OTHER JohnScotti-advertised car (#8 in my list).

Here is the links to 2 videos of the 66HP2 featured by Gilbert R:

Video uploaded 7yrs ago:


Video uploaded 1yr ago:

Where can I get a blank one like this? My car has no options so I won’t try to cheat anyone just thought it would be cool to have this paper.

$110,000

It might have been a time capsule but the condition doesn't support that price IMO.

Thanks for price-info, Bob!

Holy moly...that`s a hell lot `a money!

Congrats to the selling owner...and to all of us - or anybody else - who also can call a RL21H6-car their own!

see this one ?

https://www.johnscotticlassiccars.com/en/vehicle/plymouth-belvedere-hemi-1966-for-sale-musc-pc1362/

Thanks, but yes: #6 on my list.

This car is mentioned several times in the thread but saw this on FB today.
Matt

This picture was taken at the mopar Nats in Indy 95. The car was in High performance mopar magazine in November 1996. At the time of the picture it was a Wisconsin car, the tag was PAV 556. Also it was a manual drum, manual steering car. Maybe that will help other out who might have more information.
Matt

It would have been early 1980s at Motion Raceway in Assumption, IL. Car was white at that time, 440/auto. I remember asking the owner about the HP2 emblems. He wasn't sure what they meant, he had bought the car as a rolling chassis. I can't believe nobody on the Motion page remembers it.

original drivetrain, trans, rear
car never exdited 200 original miles.
hard to believe.
heater radio delete

even ran the car when i restored it.
13.54 et. stock exhaust
slicks for traction.

From my friend Joe Sica. High performance mopar November 1996.
Matt

Thanks, sixpacksteve, for joining in! Did my PM reach you?

If all your 2 posts show the same car, it is the former “CANDY MAN”car (#33 on my list), correct?

Oh, no, I have to correct myself:

should not be the “CANDY MAN”-car (#33 on my list), but the “FEVER”-car (#33 on ym list)!

That’s right?

No , its fever, old pics were from dover drag strip.
new were from lebanon valley drag strip.

Dover reunion

Thanks for confirming it’s “FEVER”.

i have some good news to report !
at the beginning of this thread, i mentioned a local dirt track racer converting one of these cars to dirt track use, and was testing on the highway in front of his house, causing an accident with a fatality.
after some investigating, an interesting tale emerged.
the first thing i did was contact the local newspaper to see about their history of saving news from years gone by. it seems they have lost the years from sometime in the mid to late 50's through 1972 or so, so that was a dead end.
next, i tried the local library. same thing......... they have what the newspaper can provide, so if certain years are missing from the newspaper office records, they can't be provided to the library.
then, i contacted the history center. this entity has just begun to really get serious about compiling local history, they have some great people on the staff now, and are renovating an historic building that is way larger than their current location. this will allow them more room for the artifacts they have now, as well as ones they will accumulate in the future.
however, i struck out there as well.
somehow, i then got reminded of a fellow i knew [a friend, actually] that hung around with that racer back when that accident occurred, and was present that fateful day.
it seems the car involved was a REPLICA of the hemi 4 speed car, and was a previous crash victim itself, making it perfect for the banging around a dirt car receives in use.
as the car was setup for turning left, it was somewhat hard to load on the trailer, driving it up on at a very slow speed.
and now i know everyone can see this coming, the driver jumped on it, the throttle stuck, and it was wide open into the oncoming car, killing the driver instantly.
there were news reporters there covering the story, and i was correct in reporting of the picture on the front page of the paper, as well as the car being in the impound lot at the local junkyard.
remember now, this was a REPLICA of the 66 belvedere hemi 4 speed car the racer owned at the time. that car was unhurt !
fast forward many years, and the car was sold to a family that are Mopar lovers, and have a nice collection of hemi cars.
as of approximately 15 years ago, they still owned the white, 66 belvedere hemi 4 speed car the local racer purchased new. as it is a survivor car, it is only having the necessary care needed to preserve it as it was delivered.
i haven't had the opportunity to contact this family, so this is as far as i can relate to this vehicle.
as these folks like their privacy, i will only say this car is located in western Pennsylvania. [provided they haven't sold it in the years gone by]

Some pictures from Facebook that Robert Classen posted, figured I’d share here.
Matt

Matt, big thanks to you and your buddy Joe for adding more info to 269624 (#53 on my list) !!!

Man, that is some hugh efforts you made to shade some ligt on this car...and you succeeded - awesome!

And what a relief this car original car is still arround and only the replica had been destroyed. So I understand the replica-car itself was NOT a factory Hemi-car, correct?

I added the new infos to car#38 “unknown27”: white exterior,, manual trans, now in PA.

Do you by chance can get even more infos: not about the current owners, but about the car? Like of course the VIN# or the int. color or even fendertag? ;-)

Thanks in advance, “moparx”!

Matt, appreciate you’re scanning FB...as I am not there.

Is that “THE PROPHET”-car the same car (2nd life/owner) as the STAHL-car?

If not, we have a NEW car to be added to the list, which I guess, because the STAHL-car is a 4spd and this PROPHET-car is an auto.

Any more infos on “THE PROPHET”? When were the photos taken? Where located? VIN#?

NAME OF THE DRIVER/OWNER?

Any history? Quick googling did not show anything to me on this car :-(

At least we already have color-combo (white&tanred) plus trans (auto),

"The Prophet" was out of the Detroit area. It is NOT the Stahl car. The Stahl car's history is known and was still painted in Stahl's colors when it was found by Tom Myl in the 80's.

the REPLICA car was NOT a hemi car.
as to what the original drivetrain of that car was, that information is definitely lost to history.
if i can get in touch with the family that [may] still own[s] that car today, i will try to get the serial number.
however, as i said before, these folks like their privacy and may not want to give that number out.

Thanks for further info!

Detroit fits to my google-search for “Dequindre & Rome Standard service”...no direct hit s though, but there is a Dequindre Road in Detroit at least.

@repclica: So if it is pretty much safe that was NOT factory hemi-car, you don’t need to make further efforts on it.

@real car: looking forward excitedly ;-)

Another off FB.
Matt

.
that was a good friend of mine Wally Krueger's car, his friend bought it brand new in Appleton Wi. friend Bob raced the car a little here and there and parked it in 1969 for unknown reasons, cause he pasted away years later while the car was still in storage, fast forward , his son now around 20 decided to get the car out, some parts got stolden while in storage and he took the motor out an gave it to a guy to check out and rebuild. He got frustrated with the car and told his mother to sell it , She contactd Wally who was Bob/s best friend, Wally bought the car an contacted me about checking over the motor cause he didn't trust the guy the kid had go through it. I took it apart and 4 of the pistons were upside down! I fixed the motor and got it running and took it to the Nats in 96 where the pic was taken, the car had 17,000 miles on it when I worked on it, Wally sold the car a couple of years ago to another friend of mine and it's close by, still has under 19k on it. I have a bunch of pic of it from when I worked on it.
Russ

@Matt: thanks for the pic of the STAHL-car...always great to see these RL21H6’s in action

@old_racer: thanks, Russ, for joining in and supplying some first-hand infos on (the now ex-)Wally’s-car.

Glad you were more knowledgeble than the kid’s other mechanic and detected the u/d-pistons. That mechanic should have listened to UTG, that turning-arround the pistons is a no-no at engines with valve-reliefes/domes (e,g. 6pack/Hemi)...otherwise that would have made to an expensive “experience”.

@old_racer: oh, and is the car in your avatar also an RL21H6? If so: we’re listening

no, it's not.

2nd look at the front-bumper makes me believe it’s rather a 67 car, correct?

One of the very few RL21H7’s or just a car built to have fun?

Anyway, looks very clean in silver with just the Plymouth lettering on the rear-quarters!

yes, 67 built to have fun.

Another picture I found on FB, unsure if a real car.
Matt

Hi @mattsmopars!

Thanks for hinding to Jim Owens car „CANDY MAN“.

Though this had been on my list already (#33), we might take the chance to put some more light to it: most prefereably get the VIN or any infos on the whereabouts.

Though this car looks pretty professional by ist appearance, I was not able to find much info neither on the car or the driver.

BUT I got 2 hinds that might help the community:

1) The photo was reportedly taken in the parking lot of „Blair`s Speed Shop“, see post@FB from „Pete Eastwood“. Anyone knows this shop? Or has a FB-account and could ask „Pete Eastwood“ for more infos? Photo was posted on FB by „Jeff McKee“, see following link, info on the photo-location is in the comments: https://www.facebook.com/groups/futuresonics55chev/permalink/2761632944106033/

2) Jim Owens might eventually be the same Jim Owens that wrote the book „The Legend of the Dysartsville Plymouth“. If so, he grew up in Western North Carolina, near the Blue Ridge Mountains. At the hamlet of Dysartsville 3 counties met: Rutherford County, Burke County, and McDowell County. Dysartsville was known for making moonshine. And the „Dysartsville Plymouth“ was a 63 Plymouth 2-door with a Hemi and pushbutton-auto, cranking around 600hp and carrying „moonshine“. That car was famous to be „the fastest car arround“, leaving the police way behind and – if not on m/s-duty – doing some streetracing. Jim Owens heard of this „unbeatable“ car and wanted to challenge it.

I wonder with what…maybe withis his 66 „Candy Man“-Belvedere?

ISBN of that book is e.g. 978-1984510464. Pic of the cover attached: very promising, with that bespoke 63 „unbeatable“ Plymouth and a 389-Tri-Power GTO.

Author Jim Owens can be found @FB: https://www.facebook.com/jimowens48/

So: anybody knows of Jim Owens and his 66 Belvedere „Candy Man“?

And I discovered hopefully 1 new car:

Added as #54 „unknown31“ in my list is a beige (XX1) car of Gerald GEARY of Louisville, KY running under sponsorship of RIGGS Chrysler Plymouth in class SS/DA. I recently stumbled across this car over at fbbo (member @R413`s thread 1966 Plymouths in action chasing the wind).

I did a litte www-research and sadly found an orbituary of the gentleman that I am sure is exact the same Gerald GEARY, because in the comments you find that exact same photo posted by a Mr. Dave Huber: Gerald Geary Obituary (2014) - Louisville, KY - Courier-Journal

As by reading the comments to the orbituary, he was heavily involved into dragracing and in 2000 he was inducted to the Kentuckiana Drag Racers Hall of Fame. So surely a loss to the sport & hobby.

Unfortunately his son, Gerald Geary JR. Also has passed away: Gerald Geary Obituary (1963 - 2019) - Louisville, KY - Courier-Journal

Anybody knows more about Mr. Geary Sr.`s 66 Belvedere I Hemi? The car-picture must have been taken at least in late 1969 or the very early 1970`s, as you can see a Dodge Challenger on the far-lane which is - best of my knowledge - the newest car in that photo.

I used to own this one out of Calgary Ab red/red 4 speed.......

Thanks @ogopogo for contributing to this topic!!!

Your (former) car looks awesome! Very interesting is that they used 2 fendertags just to be sure it really gets the HEMI-ENGINE at the plant. Also interesting about the 2 tags is, that they used 2 srews each, so 4 screws in total: I only know the 3 screws total from the later cars (1968 upwards), where the middle screw is shared by both tags...but maybe this was a cost saving measure, that the early cars did not have yet.

Do you by chance still know the VIN or could look it up in some old paperwork/photos for us?

So I would check my list if your car is already known and if not, add it to the list.

Updated list will be posted here, of course.

As of now, I have got 3 red/4spd-cars in my list:

-for 2 of them 1 also got the VIN
- the third car is Don Grotheers car (VIN not known to me yet)

VIN is RL21H61272288 ,as for the hemi tag it would not have been mounted on the inner fender they were generally found inside the car if at all.this car had been refurbished by a prior owner to me and he put the hemi tag on the inner fender.

I don't have the VIN but there was a red 4 speed one in Sioux Falls for years. Friend of my dad restored it in the mid 80's. Name is Randy Rist. If I remember right Dick Hanson who was a local racer that dad raced with in the late 60's early 70's drove a SS 68 cuda named Hairbender. It seems to me that the hemi in the cuda blew up. Dick bought the 66 Hemi Belvedere I for the engine. The car sat at dick's house and Randy who at the time had a white 66 Belvedere II 4 speed car bought the red car. Not sure where the motor came from but Randy had the body redone. Dad helped him get the hemi going after the body shop painted it. At the time the shop could not get the actual paint code mixed so they painted Garnet Red Poly from like 85 chrysler. It was the same color that dad was painting his 69 satellite convertible at the dealership he worked at. Both cars got done pretty close to the same time frame. The Hemi car made its maiden voyage from Centerville SD to Sioux City Ia and the 1st or 2nd annual Mighty Mopar Revival car show. Dad drove the white car and another friend drove randy's other car a white 69 runner. On the trip back to Centerville Randy gave me a ride in the red car. At 12 years old I was ear to ear on that ride. Randy ended up selling the car years later. I believe it was in a magazine at one point after he sold it and then it went through Scottsdale. When Randy had it he had painted up a set of cop car wheels with no hub caps on it. At that time it had I believe GrandAm radial tires on it. If I come across any old photos of it I will try to scan them.

Thank you for looking up the VIN: that is definately a new car - awesome!!!

What was the car’s history: where came it from, at what time did you own it and where did it go?

As “w6” in the fendertag tells us, this car was specifically built for the Canadian market...and “u1” tells us, that it was an already sold car when built, so somebody specifically ordered this car. Very nice!!!

EDIT: also we now have 4 red 4spd cars including yours. And all of them 4 do have red interiour: no other interior-colour available (blue/tan) for PP1-red cars, which I cannot understand for tan, which would have also looked good to my eye.

Also thanks for your input, @hotairballoonpilot!

So the car you describe might hopefully be the 5th red/4spd-car. Any more infos on it? Because 3 of the red/4spd-cars in my list (#1, #14, & #22) might be “your” car.

- VIN of #1 is RL21H67196610: went trough mecum.com (Jan 2020 in Kissimee, Lot S240)
- VIN of #14 is RL21H67275421: was a “basket case” offered in 2011/2012 on ebay and in 2019 on FBBO
- #22 is the former Don Grotheer car (no VIN known to me).

Interesting: I'm not a '66-'67 expert, but I don't think I've ever seen a "hemi engine" tag before.
"Hemi fender" on E-bodies is the only tag I recall.
Neither of my '68 Hemi RRs - both St Louis cars - had that tag either, just their original single fender tag.

i dont know any history really other than it was around calgary in the 70s with flames and side pipes...I sold it to a friend here in BC although he sadly passed away a year ago so the car is just sitting these days.....

the hemi engine tag I believe was hung from the windshield frame area as the car went down the assembly line to alert line workers and at some point it was removed and thrown away or inside the car car pre interior install.My black 67 hemi GTX had the same tag under the carpet I believe..it may be a 66 67 only deal....

RL21H61272294 I believe is already in your list but I didn’t see a FT picture.
Matt

A few more picture I found off FB.
Matt

No history on this car but someone might know. The way the wheel arches are cut it reminds me of the one that was on EBay not long ago.
Matt

Matt,

both your posts #27/#28 regarding RL21H61272294 were very valuable posts - thanks! Yes, you’re correct: RL21H61272294 was already listed by VIN# in my list, running as #25.

But by your supplied photos&data I now found out that this car was also running as #18 “unknown9” in my list!

Clear tell sign was the Michigan plate “RW6068”.

So one less “double” in my list, great, thanks!

@“HEMI ENGINE”-tag: very interesting @ogopogo, that you found such a tag on a 2nd car!

I am no 66-67 expert either, but hoping and willing to learn sth. new every day. So to my ear it sounds quite possible that Ma MOPAR changed the procedure with the tags in later years. For instance I know that on the 70 E-bodies the fendertag(s) were definately on the fender when the car got to the painting-line: the tag(s) were just attached with 1 screw and then bend up, so the paint reached beneath them onto the fender, after baking the paint, the tag(s) were re-bend flat and affixed with the 2nd screw each.

Matt,

another nice score and quite worth a discussion is this drag-car “Daikens&Gray”:

- I personally do not think it is the same as the blue car (#5 in my list) you mentioned, though both have enlarged rear-wheel-wells.

- Reason is that the outlines of the rww are different and that those of the blue car are not only enlarged in diameter, but also widened out a good 1 inch at least. A good spot to spot this is the rear-section of the rww, were it merges into the rear-quarter-panel.

- In contrast, the front-fender-wheel-well seems to be less wide on the blue car but a wider one on “Daikens&Gray”. Are there smaller and wider front-fenders, maybe a difference between 66 vs. 67 cars and/or Belvedere/Satellite-cars? If so, the “D&G” car might be a 67car or might be dressed up with fenders not original to a 66 Belvedere I.

- Final point that those 2 cars are not the same is, that they are not the same color. The blue car is bright-blue (solid) from factory and has had only 1 color-change to medium-blue (metallic) that it still wears today. For comparison, I attached a photo of the medium-blue-metallic #5 in nearly the same position as “your” D&G-car and turned it into a b/w-photo: no match at all!

Even a worse match if you look at the 2nd pic I attached: there I turned the original light-blue color of #5 to b/w (car is for comparison only and neither #5 nor a real RL21H6)...that look very light in color, nearly white.

As 3rd pic I turned a bright-red (solid) car into b/w...comes closer.

Final 4th pic shows the 67 Judy Lilly (RIP) car when it was found. It also has round/enlarged rww’s and the brownish-metallic color is much closer to “your” D&G-car. So conclusion for me is thet D&G must have been a dark(er) color and (because of no “grainy-ness” when turned into b/w) it was a SOLID paint.

So which and what is the D&G-car???

Maybe the 67 Judy Lilly car? Maybe a 66 RL21H6?

I see the “426 HEMI”-badges on the correct spot @front fenders. I do not see neither a (66) nor a (67) “Belvedere I” enblem on the ff’s and I also do not see neither the 66 lower beltline-trim nor the 67 sill-plate. A lot is “mixed” at the G&D car.

Www-research was also without any results to me for the D&G-car.

There is sth. written on the upper part of the ff I could not clearly deciffer...this did not search for...reads like “Bezttu Woods”!?

Matt’s pic again of the D&G-car: makes it easier to compare if one does not have to skip pages back and forth ;-)

2 more thoughts on this car:

- earliest year photo has been taken must be 1969, because of the Charger Daytona in the background, which appears to my knowledge as the newest car in that picture and those Daytonas were all build during 69 IIRC.

- class the D&G car is running in is “B/MP”, whis is “B/Modified Production”. When did this class run? Its number in the windows looks like “155” with a “$”symbol at the end!?

you are correct that they are not the same car, I contacted the last owner of the blue car that was at Carlisle and also for sell on eBay. He said for sure not the same car, as he, from my understanding purchased it from the original owner. That said the car I think now has made its way to Germany.
Matt

Another picture from FB today. It’s off the old capital raceway photos page.
Matt

Gentlemen, may I serve you a little update: we are up to 57 countable cars and could improve list-quality as 35 cars of those 57 could be identified by VIN.

Let me thank so far all members of fbbo.com and moparts.org for their help! Nonetheless, hoping to find/identify more cars.

I know this is of no real help, but for what it's worth here's the story. There was a local '66 Hemi Belvedere that was wrecked and rolled. It was in a junk/salvage yard in the early '70s when the hemi was removed and installed it into a '71 383 'cuda. The original owner of my '70 'cuda and his brother were the ones who did it.
No other info, but figure it might help if you had a "note" on one possible example that is no longer with us.

Thanks @an8sec70Cuda for the hind!

Though you stated “no other info”, any chance to breed some flesh to the bones? Which area/town was the car from, which color was the car, automatic or 4speed? Thanks for trying!

BTW: I have 1 destroyed car already in my list as “unknown26”, it was a dark blue met. 4spd-car. But that one was not destroyed due to an accident, but because the engine was pulled and sold as a roller, the next owner pulled trans&DANA and then sold the chassis to a scrapyard. So by 99.9% destroyed finally.

EDIT: plus 1 probably destroyed car, also dark blue met. & 4spd, listed as “unknown22”. Quite a coincidence both cars are dark blue met. &4spd., but my infos on these tell 100% they are NOT the same cars. The “unknown22” was also (as the car you mention) rolled by the origi. owner in 68, the insurance got the car repaired quite “sloppy”, owner was not pleased with the result and soon traded the car in at a used-car-dealer, all in Illinois. Could it be the same car you mention now?

If I'm not mistaken the car was sold new in Mullins, SC, but was in the Dillon, SC area. I believe it was blue and an automatic, but not 100% on that.

Saw a couple more on FB. I wish I had the vin and information but I don’t. One is in Canada for sale.
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-voiture-col...JkfVFvFMDQor9-xUjGS0&mibextid=Zxz2cZ
Matt

The other car was posted by Micheal Coronet and is supposed to be a 6k mile race car out of Michigan.
Matt

Thanks @mattsmopar for having an eye on the CDA-market as well.

@medium Blue ohne off kikiji.ca: yes, that one has popped up to me already, too. Had contacted the seller as I might be interested in buying and of course also asked for VIN/Fendertag.


@dark blue one: that one appears new to me. Any more infos on it?

@did probably find one more car: it is a red/red/Auto car, will have to check my database deeper first and maybe contact the seller from, but maybe we have not only 2 but even 3 new cars for my list. I‘ll keep you guys posted!

Thanks to everybody contributing ! 👍👍👍

Thanks for addl. info. So if your mentioned car is an automatic from factory, it would be a different car and I could add it to my list. 😊

The car for sale in Canada I did also ask on the post on FB about the vin and tag, but I got no reply. If I hear back from that I will update things, please do the same if you do. The either dark blue or black car I mention to the owner about the thread so maybe I might get some information on it or he might post , we will have to see.
Matt

Matt,

yes, thanks for letting me think twice: the more I look at your posted car in #3143586 II think it is rather black than dark blue-met. color. Interiour seems to show a glimpse of red, would you agree? Steeringwheel is an aftermarket one (drilled chome-spokes).

And here is my "probably found one more" car, see attached photo. After checking my database I could not find a hind that it is a car already listed, though red/red/auto seems to be a quite common combo back then.

This car went through Auctions America in Auburn, IN in fall 2013, sold for 50,600$, unfortunately no VIN in the lot-describtion and neither found this lot in the catalog, but it was there and sold as the auction-results proof (lot#5062). Anybody knows this car? At that time it had the NY licence-plate "CY7-79R", it is an early car ("HP2"-badge), has blue-streak-tires and a small badge in the grill (automobile-club?).

Short update, we are up 3 new cars

a) the medium blue orig. darkred-met. from kijiji.ca
b) the most probably black (or dark blue?) one with probably a red interior mentioned by mattsmopars
c) the darkblue/auto one mentioned by an8sec70cuda

I hoped to add a 4th car (the red/red one posted by myself), but I could tie down this car to a VIN thanks to the auctioneer and this showed that this car was already on my list (#51). But at least list-quality could be improved.

Matt,

could this car posted by you already be one in my list? Cars #3 (went through Mecum 2018) and #43 (1990 NHOA) are also black.

The #3-car would even match interior (red).

Do not know int.color of #43, so there is a chance that is also red.

EDIT: took a deeper look at the #3 car, which is very well documented to me, and came to the conclusion it is NOT the same car as the black one posted by you @mattsmopars. They coincidentally wear the same wheels (slotted cops with poverty caps) and have the same color, but that`s it.

If we start with the color, it is close to a satin-black, nowhere near a glossy black. Especially as matts pic is quite old, the paint should have been far more shiny...looks like a poor respray to me.

Most important, the #3 car was a Canadian-delivered car still wearing the dealers-badge on the upper-left trunklid...no such enblem at the car posted by Matt and chances are low the car is also a Canadian delivery one.

The more I look at "Matts" car, the more I doubt it has a red interiour, but what at first glance made me think so, is just a reddish building that is mirroring in the windows. So what I thought was a red passenger door-panel and bench-seat was not. Also package-tray/rear or rear-seat shows nothing red. Plus dashboard and upper door frames are not red, but a dark colour. Instead the #3 car with its documented red interior has a red dash and red upper door-frames. So I am 70:30 sure, these 2 cars are not the same and "Matts" car has no red interiour. I might guess it is an automatic-car (whilst #3 is 4spd ), cause if you look at the aftermarket steering-wheel, above the right spoke is something that looks like a leaver of a colum-shift. Any input welcome.

I drove the Fox & Parsons Belvedere I HEMI automatic last month

Kidding ?!

And thanks for providing the VIN, Dan! Much appreciated!!!

nope - WW1 L1T - more at a later date

@6bblgt: Dan, did you get to see more of the car, ideally the fendertag or would tell us what color combination it was from factory?

I guess that white was it original ext. color?

Any more trivia you were told about it, like about the hood-scoop, where it came frome, how much of an improvement it was (hp and/or quartermile) or if it was put on just for visual purposes, so the car "stands out" more, gets more looks, gets more talked about, thus is more attractive for sponsors.

Thanks!

The statement "I live here" does really apply to you, Dan...did not realise you already answered on the color-question. Thanks for doing so!

Yes, I am curious about "more at a later date"

Saw this on Facebook yesterday.

Thanks @an8secCuda, eventhough not a Belvedere I Hemi, any Hemi-car is worth mentioning.

This car was on BAT about 2 yrs ago for 38k$ INCLUDING engine&trans.

I personally do not like if a complete (and savable) car gets gutted off its drivetrain, even more if that car is a Hemi-car.

Only can hope that cars engine did help save a much more rare Hemi-car.

As the car sits now, I would say its in the 10k.

Dan, it is “a later date” now ;-) Curious for an update to your 1st hand experience.

A couple FB pictures I saw today, on the Chrysler R0/W0 page. I am unsure of the vin but I do believe it an original 66 belvedere I hemi. Also a guy posted the current car today.
Matt

Thanks Matt, for sharing this one: do you have a chance to get more info about it?

From the old dragstrip pic I can see the car must be manual transmission and located/raced in Suffolk, VA.

Also previous to Matt‘s contributed new car the guys over at fbbo contributed another new car: dark blue met, blue int., 4spd, sold new by Grand Spaulding Dodge!!!

Did not know GSD sold anything else than DODGE.

So we are up by 2 new cars :-)

NEW ONE FOR YOU, RL21H61226432 LT BLUE MET BLUE INT

don't know the vin but someone might. I saw the picture on FB this morning.
Matt

Sorry for my late reply: notifications seem not to work.

Thanks, Sir, for contributing!

Great: indeed a completely new car on my list and a rare exterior colour, too!

May I ask: what trans, brakes, radio, heater?

Fendertag/buildsheet?

Any pics of your(?) car available?

What’s the story behind that machine?

Also thanks for your posting, Matt!

Much appreciate that historic pic and article of Arlen Vanke‘s RL21H6.

Sorry, though that car was already on my list, I still lack of its VIN#…so if anyone knows it, please tell us.

Thanks!

#15 on your list *** RL21H61247912 *** was in attendance at MCACN 2023

& here is #19 & #26 on your list - the "Fox & Parsons" car is the Bob Mazzolini car ***** one in the same, Bob hated the "teardrop" - there was a tunnel-rammed HEMI under it
RL21H67235060 is featured in the current issue of "MUSCLE CARS BONE STOCK & MODIFIED" Fall 2023 (published in Canada)

Thanks, Dan, for these infos and tying down the Mazzolini -car to be the Fox&Parsons!!!

To be honest, I liked the teardrop bubble, because it‘s quite unique on a MOPAR…only other car I am aware of with a quite similar appearing scoop is Big Willie‘s Daytona.

Gentlemen, you are a great group of people here, really appreciate all your MOPAR-knowledge and passion!

Known car? Is it real or otherwise ?

Sorry, Dont have a vin.
this picture popped in a facebook group Im in

A couple from FB tonight.

Saw this one FB tonight. Supposed to be Don Grotheer, 1966 Amarillo. A Dan Wadley photo.

Another from FB, the OP said his grandfather raced the car out of the Akron, OH area.
Matt

A picture that was on eBay for sale.
Matt