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Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell?

Posted By: Sunroofcuda

Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/27/22 07:47 PM

So my wife is at our local Dodge dealer right now to buy a new oil change package for our 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3.6L Pentastar. They are telling her it calls for full-synthetic 0W20 oil - the package is $145.00 vs. $100.00 for semi-syn. I end up talking with the service manager who tells me I might be out of luck if there is an engine failure while running semi-synthetic oil - the car is certified, so it has a 100k drivetrain warranty. So I asked when Chrysler changed oil requirements on the 3.6L, because they use semi-syn in my 2016 300 that also has the 3.6L motor, & same with my two other previous 300's (a 2012 & 2014) that also both had the 3.6? He could not tell me when these engines started requiring the full-syn.

So the question I have is this: is what they are telling me legit? I have never heard of this scenario before. This same service manager also tells me he has never heard of ANY valvetrain issues with the 3.6 engine. I think this guy is FOS.
Posted By: BDW

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/27/22 07:51 PM

What does the service manual call for?

EDIT: Owners manual?
Posted By: Sunroofcuda

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/27/22 08:37 PM

I called a second dealer & a service manager I know - he said the 2018 Jeep 3.6 calls for 0W20. He said ALL 0W oils are full-synthetic. I'd just like to know when the 3.6L engines changed from 5W20 to 0W20? Sounds legit, but I've never heard of this change before today.
Posted By: larrymopar360

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/27/22 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda
So my wife is at our local Dodge dealer right now to buy a new oil change package for our 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3.6L Pentastar. They are telling her it calls for full-synthetic 0W20 oil - the package is $145.00 vs. $100.00 for semi-syn. I end up talking with the service manager who tells me I might be out of luck if there is an engine failure while running semi-synthetic oil - the car is certified, so it has a 100k drivetrain warranty. So I asked when Chrysler changed oil requirements on the 3.6L, because they use semi-syn in my 2016 300 that also has the 3.6L motor, & same with my two other previous 300's (a 2012 & 2014) that also both had the 3.6? He could not tell me when these engines started requiring the full-syn.

So the question I have is this: is what they are telling me legit? I have never heard of this scenario before. This same service manager also tells me he has never heard of ANY valvetrain issues with the 3.6 engine. I think this guy is FOS.
OMG he hasn't heard of valvetrain issues with the 3.6??????????????? Is he high??????????????? Valve train and heads.
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/27/22 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda
I called a second dealer & a service manager I know - he said the 2018 Jeep 3.6 calls for 0W20. He said ALL 0W oils are full-synthetic. I'd just like to know when the 3.6L engines changed from 5W20 to 0W20? Sounds legit, but I've never heard of this change before today.


My 2012 3.6 calls out for 5w-30. Jeep Wrangler.
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/27/22 08:52 PM

0w20...I would use full synthetic.

What do you get for $145? You can get 5qt of Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum, with a premium filter at Advance for $40.


ETA...looks like 0w20 in the 3.6 and 5w30 in the 2.0. Semi-synthetic 0w20 is not easy to find.
Posted By: 3hundred

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/27/22 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda
So my wife is at our local Dodge dealer right now to buy a new oil change package for our 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3.6L Pentastar. They are telling her it calls for full-synthetic 0W20 oil - the package is $145.00 vs. $100.00 for semi-syn. I end up talking with the service manager who tells me I might be out of luck if there is an engine failure while running semi-synthetic oil - the car is certified, so it has a 100k drivetrain warranty. So I asked when Chrysler changed oil requirements on the 3.6L, because they use semi-syn in my 2016 300 that also has the 3.6L motor, & same with my two other previous 300's (a 2012 & 2014) that also both had the 3.6? He could not tell me when these engines started requiring the full-syn.

So the question I have is this: is what they are telling me legit? I have never heard of this scenario before. This same service manager also tells me he has never heard of ANY valvetrain issues with the 3.6 engine. I think this guy is FOS.


That MAY be a requirement for the 3.6 PUG engines. check your owners manual to be sure. How many oil changes are included in the package?
Posted By: Sunroofcuda

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/27/22 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by 3hundred
Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda
So my wife is at our local Dodge dealer right now to buy a new oil change package for our 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3.6L Pentastar. They are telling her it calls for full-synthetic 0W20 oil - the package is $145.00 vs. $100.00 for semi-syn. I end up talking with the service manager who tells me I might be out of luck if there is an engine failure while running semi-synthetic oil - the car is certified, so it has a 100k drivetrain warranty. So I asked when Chrysler changed oil requirements on the 3.6L, because they use semi-syn in my 2016 300 that also has the 3.6L motor, & same with my two other previous 300's (a 2012 & 2014) that also both had the 3.6? He could not tell me when these engines started requiring the full-syn.

So the question I have is this: is what they are telling me legit? I have never heard of this scenario before. This same service manager also tells me he has never heard of ANY valvetrain issues with the 3.6 engine. I think this guy is FOS.


That MAY be a requirement for the 3.6 PUG engines. check your owners manual to be sure. How many oil changes are included in the package?


3 oil changes. I've been doing this 3-fer package with the Chrysler dealers for years. These were $85.00 for a long time, then went up to $100.00 for semi-syn - still current. They are a great deal, plus documented oil changes through the dealers.
Posted By: Sunroofcuda

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/27/22 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by CMcAllister
0w20...I would use full synthetic.

What do you get for $145? You can get 5qt of Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum, with a premium filter at Advance for $40.


ETA...looks like 0w20 in the 3.6 and 5w30 in the 2.0. Semi-synthetic 0w20 is not easy to find.


THREE oil changes (plus filters of course) for $145.00. GREAT deal if you ask me!
Posted By: justinp61

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/28/22 01:05 AM

Did you check the owners manual?
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/28/22 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
0w20...I would use full synthetic.

What do you get for $145? You can get 5qt of Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum, with a premium filter at Advance for $40.


ETA...looks like 0w20 in the 3.6 and 5w30 in the 2.0. Semi-synthetic 0w20 is not easy to find.


THREE oil changes (plus filters of course) for $145.00. GREAT deal if you ask me!


True.
Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/28/22 01:43 AM

I went through the same thing when we bought our 2010 Cummins. Owners manual calls for 5W-40 full synthetic or "engine damage may occur". OK, I call up the dealership and ask them about this. I tell them that the other Cummins we had never had this requirement (1998, 2001, 2005) and all I ever used was 15W-40 conventional. They tell me that they use 15W-40 conventional in all their Cummins and have not had any problems. So I ask if I use 15W-40 conventional and have an engine problem, will they warranty it? Crickets at first and then the music began with the dancing to follow. So I've been using the Valvoline 5W-40 full synthetic. Cheap insurance.
Posted By: 3hundred

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/28/22 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by justinp61
Did you check the owners manual?


I looked it up, 2018 Jeep GC owners manual, pages 445 & 446

Engine Oil Viscosity (SAE Grade) — 3.6L Engine
Mopar SAE 0W-20 engine oil approved to FCA Material
Standard MS-6395 such as Pennzoil, Shell Helix or equivalent is recommended for all operating temperatures. This
engine oil improves low temperature starting and vehicle
fuel economy

If they've decided a full synthetic is required there should be an OM addendum or TSB.

Synthetic Engine Oils
You may use synthetic engine oils provided the recommended oil quality requirements are met, and the recommended maintenance intervals for oil and filter changes are
followed.
Synthetic engine oils which do not have both the engine oil
certification mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade
number should not be used.

Chrysler MS-6395 approved oils linky

FWIW, to me, synthetic oil and nitrogen for tires are of quite dubious benefit, and considering the cost, given a choice, I wouldn't pay the difference. Near 50 years ago I was a mechanic, I've NEVER seen an oil failure, seen plenty of lack of maintenance failures. Just keep the oil and fluids changed. 2¢
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/28/22 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by 6PakBee
I went through the same thing when we bought our 2010 Cummins. Owners manual calls for 5W-40 full synthetic or "engine damage may occur". OK, I call up the dealership and ask them about this. I tell them that the other Cummins we had never had this requirement (1998, 2001, 2005) and all I ever used was 15W-40 conventional. They tell me that they use 15W-40 conventional in all their Cummins and have not had any problems. So I ask if I use 15W-40 conventional and have an engine problem, will they warranty it? Crickets at first and then the music began with the dancing to follow. So I've been using the Valvoline 5W-40 full synthetic. Cheap insurance.


If you trust how the viscosity numbers work, and you can look it up on data sheets, 5w40 and 15w40 will be essentially the same viscosity once it gets up to temperature (210*F)
Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/28/22 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Originally Posted by 6PakBee
I went through the same thing when we bought our 2010 Cummins. Owners manual calls for 5W-40 full synthetic or "engine damage may occur". OK, I call up the dealership and ask them about this. I tell them that the other Cummins we had never had this requirement (1998, 2001, 2005) and all I ever used was 15W-40 conventional. They tell me that they use 15W-40 conventional in all their Cummins and have not had any problems. So I ask if I use 15W-40 conventional and have an engine problem, will they warranty it? Crickets at first and then the music began with the dancing to follow. So I've been using the Valvoline 5W-40 full synthetic. Cheap insurance.


If you trust how the viscosity numbers work, and you can look it up on data sheets, 5w40 and 15w40 will be essentially the same viscosity once it gets up to temperature (210*F)


You are preaching to the choir.
Posted By: 340Cuda

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/28/22 03:16 PM

I recently had he oil changed in my 2008 D3500 Cummins at one of the local Dodge dealerships.

I was told they had nothing but synthetic oils.
Posted By: MoonshineMattK

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/28/22 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Originally Posted by 6PakBee
I went through the same thing when we bought our 2010 Cummins. Owners manual calls for 5W-40 full synthetic or "engine damage may occur". OK, I call up the dealership and ask them about this. I tell them that the other Cummins we had never had this requirement (1998, 2001, 2005) and all I ever used was 15W-40 conventional. They tell me that they use 15W-40 conventional in all their Cummins and have not had any problems. So I ask if I use 15W-40 conventional and have an engine problem, will they warranty it? Crickets at first and then the music began with the dancing to follow. So I've been using the Valvoline 5W-40 full synthetic. Cheap insurance.


If you trust how the viscosity numbers work, and you can look it up on data sheets, 5w40 and 15w40 will be essentially the same viscosity once it gets up to temperature (210*F)




The key here is viscosity at operating temp. There may be a reason the need the oil to flow more freely on a cold engine.
Posted By: AARCONV

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/28/22 07:36 PM

clearly you are going to the dealer because of your engine warranty, so in that case, just keep going with what they say, if you make a decision now and change it, then they might say they never said that.But as you can tell, they have you over the barrel on oil changes for the warranty, do your own and save the receipts and mark down the mileage and you are good.
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/28/22 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by 340Cuda
I recently had he oil changed in my 2008 D3500 Cummins at one of the local Dodge dealerships.

I was told they had nothing but synthetic oils.


Getting hard to find conventional oil in parts stores, unless you buy the house brand (NAPA, Fram).
Posted By: Sunroofcuda

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/28/22 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Originally Posted by 340Cuda
I recently had he oil changed in my 2008 D3500 Cummins at one of the local Dodge dealerships.

I was told they had nothing but synthetic oils.


Getting hard to find conventional oil in parts stores, unless you buy the house brand (NAPA, Fram).


This is very true - products in general. I use Castrol Syntec 0W40 for my 2016 Challenger Scat Pack & cannot find it in any stores around me. I just ordered two jugs of it online today through Amazon. Hey - what are you gonna do? I prefer to support brick & mortar, but they ain't got!
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/28/22 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Originally Posted by 340Cuda
I recently had he oil changed in my 2008 D3500 Cummins at one of the local Dodge dealerships.

I was told they had nothing but synthetic oils.


Getting hard to find conventional oil in parts stores, unless you buy the house brand (NAPA, Fram).


This is very true - products in general. I use Castrol Syntec 0W40 for my 2016 Challenger Scat Pack & cannot find it in any stores around me. I just ordered two jugs of it online today through Amazon. Hey - what are you gonna do? I prefer to support brick & mortar, but they ain't got!


Syntec name has been discontinued. Edge is the top of the line Castrol now. Ask them for the European stuff. May have it stuck somewhere other than the oil racks if it's not out front. Use part numbers. Works better than descriptions for some of the counter monkeys.

5W40 may be easier to find.
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/29/22 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by 6PakBee
I went through the same thing when we bought our 2010 Cummins. Owners manual calls for 5W-40 full synthetic or "engine damage may occur". OK, I call up the dealership and ask them about this. I tell them that the other Cummins we had never had this requirement (1998, 2001, 2005) and all I ever used was 15W-40 conventional. They tell me that they use 15W-40 conventional in all their Cummins and have not had any problems. So I ask if I use 15W-40 conventional and have an engine problem, will they warranty it? Crickets at first and then the music began with the dancing to follow. So I've been using the Valvoline 5W-40 full synthetic. Cheap insurance.


2010 would run 15/40 and 5w/40 if you live in an ice box….. like Nord Dakota
Honestly if your 2010 is stock the oils getting so polluted with the regen strategy that synthetic is a waste. Regen is why they have the service reminder. At a calculated interval of 2-3% oil dilution the “oil change required” message comes up. They “said” that they’d tested up to 10% dilution without any ill findings. The 08-12 6.7 (pre DEF) they recommended at oil change to have the level at the “S” in safe on the stick. That would give room for growth due to fuel dilution….. I never thought I’d see the day where it was “normal” for the oil level to rise during a service interval. 08-12 was a must to delete imho……
Posted By: Sunroofcuda

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/29/22 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Originally Posted by 340Cuda
I recently had he oil changed in my 2008 D3500 Cummins at one of the local Dodge dealerships.

I was told they had nothing but synthetic oils.


Getting hard to find conventional oil in parts stores, unless you buy the house brand (NAPA, Fram).


This is very true - products in general. I use Castrol Syntec 0W40 for my 2016 Challenger Scat Pack & cannot find it in any stores around me. I just ordered two jugs of it online today through Amazon. Hey - what are you gonna do? I prefer to support brick & mortar, but they ain't got!


Syntec name has been discontinued. Edge is the top of the line Castrol now. Ask them for the European stuff. May have it stuck somewhere other than the oil racks if it's not out front. Use part numbers. Works better than descriptions for some of the counter monkeys.

5W40 may be easier to find.


Sorry - I meant Edge.
Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/29/22 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by J_BODY
Originally Posted by 6PakBee
I went through the same thing when we bought our 2010 Cummins. Owners manual calls for 5W-40 full synthetic or "engine damage may occur". OK, I call up the dealership and ask them about this. I tell them that the other Cummins we had never had this requirement (1998, 2001, 2005) and all I ever used was 15W-40 conventional. They tell me that they use 15W-40 conventional in all their Cummins and have not had any problems. So I ask if I use 15W-40 conventional and have an engine problem, will they warranty it? Crickets at first and then the music began with the dancing to follow. So I've been using the Valvoline 5W-40 full synthetic. Cheap insurance.


2010 would run 15/40 and 5w/40 if you live in an ice box….. like Nord Dakota
Honestly if your 2010 is stock the oils getting so polluted with the regen strategy that synthetic is a waste. Regen is why they have the service reminder. At a calculated interval of 2-3% oil dilution the “oil change required” message comes up. They “said” that they’d tested up to 10% dilution without any ill findings. The 08-12 6.7 (pre DEF) they recommended at oil change to have the level at the “S” in safe on the stick. That would give room for growth due to fuel dilution….. I never thought I’d see the day where it was “normal” for the oil level to rise during a service interval. 08-12 was a must to delete imho……


Okay, I'm confused. I thought that with a Cummins, during the filter regeneration raw diesel fuel was injected ahead of the catalytic converter to raise the exhaust temp to 'burn' the filter out. If this is the case, how does this contribute to oil dilution?
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 09/30/22 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by 6PakBee
Originally Posted by J_BODY
Originally Posted by 6PakBee
I went through the same thing when we bought our 2010 Cummins. Owners manual calls for 5W-40 full synthetic or "engine damage may occur". OK, I call up the dealership and ask them about this. I tell them that the other Cummins we had never had this requirement (1998, 2001, 2005) and all I ever used was 15W-40 conventional. They tell me that they use 15W-40 conventional in all their Cummins and have not had any problems. So I ask if I use 15W-40 conventional and have an engine problem, will they warranty it? Crickets at first and then the music began with the dancing to follow. So I've been using the Valvoline 5W-40 full synthetic. Cheap insurance.


2010 would run 15/40 and 5w/40 if you live in an ice box….. like Nord Dakota
Honestly if your 2010 is stock the oils getting so polluted with the regen strategy that synthetic is a waste. Regen is why they have the service reminder. At a calculated interval of 2-3% oil dilution the “oil change required” message comes up. They “said” that they’d tested up to 10% dilution without any ill findings. The 08-12 6.7 (pre DEF) they recommended at oil change to have the level at the “S” in safe on the stick. That would give room for growth due to fuel dilution….. I never thought I’d see the day where it was “normal” for the oil level to rise during a service interval. 08-12 was a must to delete imho……


Okay, I'm confused. I thought that with a Cummins, during the filter regeneration raw diesel fuel was injected ahead of the catalytic converter to raise the exhaust temp to 'burn' the filter out. If this is the case, how does this contribute to oil dilution?


Fuel gets past the rings….. the oil level will rise in that era.
Posted By: Dcuda69

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 10/01/22 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by 3hundred
Originally Posted by justinp61
Did you check the owners manual?


FWIW, to me, synthetic oil and nitrogen for tires are of quite dubious benefit, and considering the cost, given a choice, I wouldn't pay the difference. Near 50 years ago I was a mechanic, I've NEVER seen an oil failure, seen plenty of lack of maintenance failures. Just keep the oil and fluids changed. 2¢


You are aware engines have changed drastically in 50 yrs...right? Clearances, OHC, DOHC, VVT, DOD,AFM,mechanical high pressure fuel pumps, variable displacement oil pumps...the list goes on...those are all part of modern lube systems. You can mess with manufacture suggestions all you want.....I would not!
Posted By: 3hundred

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 10/01/22 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by Dcuda69
Originally Posted by 3hundred
Originally Posted by justinp61
Did you check the owners manual?


FWIW, to me, synthetic oil and nitrogen for tires are of quite dubious benefit, and considering the cost, given a choice, I wouldn't pay the difference. Near 50 years ago I was a mechanic, I've NEVER seen an oil failure, seen plenty of lack of maintenance failures. Just keep the oil and fluids changed. 2¢


You are aware engines have changed drastically in 50 yrs...right? Clearances, OHC, DOHC, VVT, DOD,AFM,mechanical high pressure fuel pumps, variable displacement oil pumps...the list goes on...those are all part of modern lube systems. You can mess with manufacture suggestions all you want.....I would not!


You did note synthetic is NOT required in this application, 2018 Jeep GC, 3.6? IIRC, full synthetic is only required for SRT's at this time. I think the biggest move in synthetics these days is in the 0W category. As I recall from the "old days" extreme temperature breakdown resistance was the primary benefit of full synthetics. I AM using it (5W-20) in our newer cars because the dealer quit offering semi synthetic, full synthetic is NOT required AT LEAST ACCORDING to Chrysler. MS-6395 IS required.

With that out of the way, there is a case to be made for full synthetic in the 3.6 because of failing rocker arms. Is it an oiling failure, design issue, quality issue? dunno. Early Pentastars required 5W-30, in 2013 they changed it to 5W-20. Only the first guess do we have any control over, but there's LOT's of failed 3.6 rocker arms that have ONLY been fed a diet of full synthetics, so crapshoot.

FWIW, our Hemi lifters are noisy no matter what oil they're fed.

For the cost of nitrogen, I'll go through the drill of adding air every fall.
Posted By: Sunroofcuda

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 10/02/22 01:02 AM

Neither dealer I talked to could tell me when Chrysler started "requiring" the 3.6 to use nothing but 0w20. My 300 is a 2016 & the Dodge dealer does all the oil changes & uses semi-syn 5w20. So far, no rocker arm issues, even though I get clatter which is quite audible when the engine is cold - takes about 10 minutes of driving before it subsides. I've had two dealers look for this & they come back with "no rocker arm issues" each time. Personally, looking at repair videos & listening to what the Chrysler techs are saying, I don't see how these rocker assemblies can remain trouble-free in under 100,000 miles. Same thing with the driveshaft center support bearings on the 300's & Chargers. THEY ARE ALL GOING TO FAIL PREMATURELY! If you are driving a late model Charger or 300 & you are starting to feel a driveline vibration at highway speeds, it's the center support bearing! It's a 2-grand repair if you are out of warranty.

Rant off.
Posted By: GarageDodge

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 10/02/22 11:31 PM

My wifes 12t&c van with3.6 calls for 5w-30 for oil 298kand no problems with anything in the engine,Sons 2016 chrysler 300 with a 3.6 198k calls for 5w-20no problems both were bought with less than 30k on them oil &filter changed every 4000miles.
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Oil Change At Chrysler Dealer Upsell? - 10/04/22 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda
Neither dealer I talked to could tell me when Chrysler started "requiring" the 3.6 to use nothing but 0w20.


Something else to consider is that the 0-20 oil may be recommended as that’s how they tested the engine and “maybe” they were able to see a slight mpg improvement. EPA loves when corporate can show them that.
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