70 Challenger 318 upgrade 440 etc.

I want to drop a crate 440/425hp engine into the 318 base Challenger.
Any requirements, recommendations and suggestions in regard
upgrades to transmission, rear end, brakes, suspension, cooling, exhaust etc ?

thanks

Make a list of what is under the car now and we may be able to make some suggestions. You do know that just about anything that connects to the small block will need to be changed for the big block, don't you?

Its a stock 318 challenger -
I don't believe the k-frame needs to change?

I know for sure need to change the auto transmission to 727,
drive shaft, rear end axle and differential.

ADD sway bars front and rear, HD brakes and
HD torsion bars.

I think you need to find out what you have before you start ordering parts.

My 73 Challenger had a 318 and came with an 8 3/4 rear axle. No need to change that out. If you currently have a 727 you can keep the driveshaft.

Sway bars aren't required, per se but you may already have a front one.

What brakes do you currently have?

You could easily get that horsepower from a stroked small block and save a bunch of money with much less BS.

Gus

yeah i second that. you can run the 318 and get 425 hp. whats the plans for the car? driver? street/strip? a 425 hp 440cuin engine is basically a stock rebuild with some aftermarket heads.

Lot of difference between a small block and big block handling.

K Frame is the same. All V8's except the Hemi had the same basic Kframe.
Motor Mount isolators are the same, (Rubber part)
Motor Mount Brackets (Metal bracket on engine to Rubber isolator) are different.
Transmission mount and isolator are the same.

1970 floor shift cars had a shift interlock linkage. It is not needed if you lock the shift tube in the column and it is a floor shift car. If you keep it, then it will be different big block to small block and 904 to 727

If the transmission is already a 727 floor shift then New transmission and kickdown linkage are needed but all else is the same.

If the transmission is a floor shift 904 then:
The bracket that holds the lower part of the shifter bellcrank is different,
The kickdown linkage is different
Probably the Rod to the shift lever.
Driveshaft and slip yoke are different too.
Of course you need the 727 Transmission.

Column shift cars need the correct bracket for the shift linkage for the Big Block. Nearly all linkage if swapping from 904 to 727. I doubt it is column shift. Not many column shift Challengers.

Rear end is OK if it is and 8-3/4, Gear change is optional.

Sway bar is a nice plus. Can be left off but really worth it in my opinion.

Torsion bars will need to be replaced and if you drive hard the rear springs will probably need to be looked at.

Exhaust is different and you would want duals instead of single anyway.

Engine wiring is slightly different. A new engine harness or modify the old one.

Power steering brackets and probably hoses.

If you have/want AC the brackets and hoses are different.

Radiator, fan shroud and hoses need replaced if it is still stock.

Not a hard job except finding or paying for the linkage.

Me, I'd go with a stroked LA unless I absolutely needed 440 CI.
Did that on a Duster street car, and loved it.

I agree. A 408 with the right cam and good heads would be a lot shorter route and the car will drive better with the lighter power plant. If it's got a 904, stay with it. Just beef it some.

He said he has a 1970 with a 318. That should have the small rear end. He will need an 8&3/4 rear behind the 440. All E bodies 1972 and up came with the 8&3/4 rear but not in 1970. I like the idea of the stroked LA motor. E bodies ride and handle better with small blocks.

I can't knock small blocks but putting your foot in a big block will put a smile on you face. I did this swap but with a 383. Definitely get the lager torsion bars, I was lucky and found a set in a junk yard.

Appreciate the idea and suggestions to stroke the 318...

This is what I have:
1970 Challenger 318, floor shift 904 and 7 1/4 rear end.
and a Crate 440
To summarize needs: Appreciate info where I can purchase these items:
- Motor mounts and brackets
- The bracket that holds shifter bell crank -
- Kick down linkage for 727
- Rod to shift lever
- Drive shaft and slip yoke
- 727 Transmission
- 8 3/4 rear end
- sway bars -front and rear
- torsion bars
- dual exhaust
- power steering brackets/hoses
- Radiator and hoses.

pics

You have a big (and expensive) job ahead of you there. It might be a challenge finding everything you need for it right now. You have the large radiator opening, that is a good start. I do have a couple of questions up front;

Do you plan to keep the A/C with the 440? Do you have the standard flat hood? And then, is there a time or money budget on this project?

I will make a couple of suggestions on the shift linkage; lock out the shift interlock rather than mess with redoing it. Just make up a one piece kick down like the later models had. I usually make my own from Dodge trucks in the pick-a-part yards. The key is getting the right ratio between the carb arm and the arm on the tranny. Make sure that the 727 you get has the mount on the tail shaft for the shift rod arm. You see the arms at the Mopar swap meets regularly and they are in repop, too. Is the 904 arm different than the 727 arm? Year One shows them all on back-order and only lists a 727 arm.

Have the flat hood - intend to go with AMD shaker and a shaker kit 4bbl.
Have A/C Intend to remove A/C.
Have 7 1/4 intend to get a Mopar Madness 8 3/4 complete brakes

I'm committed to the project - time not an issue - money is always a concern.
Before starting I like to have all the components on hand already have the car and the crate engine.

What parts in your mind are gonna be an issue/challenge to get?
Here is a list thus far...
Motor mounts and brackets
- The bracket that holds shifter bell crank -
- Kick down linkage for 727
- Rod to shift lever
- Drive shaft and slip yoke
- 727 Transmission
- 8 3/4 rear end
- sway bars -front and rear
- torsion bars
- dual exhaust
- power steering brackets/hoses
- Radiator and hoses.
- HD leaf springs

Save yourself a LOT of time, money and effort, sell this car unmolested and buy an already built 440 Challenger. 2¢

Do you want it to look stock or is aftermarket ok?

Lots of options open up if you go aftermarket. Radiators, exhaust, kiickdown, swaybars, etc are available aftermarket and can be a better option sometimes. Also if you want original then you will be looking for early 70's 440 parts but non original opens options on brackets, pulleys etc from different years that may be more easily available.

Aftermarket parts are fine.- availability is more important.

He bought this car to flip, he's a used car dealer.

After he gets knee deep into this one, we may have a shot at another unfinished project. I wonder if the car still has the original engine and trans in it? And taking the A/C off may not be a good idea. With all the money and effort this project will take, and with the availability of aftermarket components, keeping the A/C wouldn't be that difficult and would be a good sales point. At least IMHO.

If it is being built to flip, which is the better profit center: converting to the 440 or building a stoker S/B with A/C? I would think that the stroker would be so much less time and money that it could leave more margin to the OP in the end. Opinions?

Considering the cost of the 440 project and all that it entails. Cost is not that much different than
a completely rebuilt 340 with 'J' heads and rebuilt 727 with shift kit and 8 3/4 sure grip.
Estimate cost about 10k - store the matching 318. 904, and 7 1/4 rearend and the a/c unit for a future use.

I already made my opinion known, and it was disregarded.
I'd wager that the value of the car is better more as produced than just another 440 swap.
Not to mention the expense of time & money, the AC firewall, and the notion of significantly altering what sounds like a nice stock E-body.
That swap and what it entails would block me - and many others - from any interest in the car.
Financially, unless it's a Hemi/stick/Dana/suspension swap with a properly re-done firewall, it doesn't make much sense.
But I've only got 40 years' experience buying/restoring/building/collecting/selling Mopars, and following the market...

Well, we should at this point agree to disagree. Good luck with your project.

Suspension parts can be found at Hotchkiss

https://www.hotchkis.net/classic-mu...%20Mopar%20E-Body&smainCat=&pg=2

If you can't source a local rear end, you might give Cass a call:

https://www.doctordiff.com/drivetrain/mopar-8-3-4/

If it where mine i would add a rally dash to the list!
As with any part you need to search and see what your options are. Are you buying new,rebuilt finding used and rebuilding it to your liking etc. Since you have the 440 start with the major things you need like the trans/rear then work on the smaller things. I would keep the AC but not use the old V twin compressor. It's for R12 and most likely you will want to convert to 134. There are places that offer kit's to use newer134 compressors etc. Swap meets, Classifieds and web searches are your friend just my $.02

I did a very similar thing to my 70 about 15 years ago. Except 5 speed manual. It was a piece of cake.... Luckily mine already had an 8 3/4 but it was 318 auto car w/ac. When I got it the previous owner installed a very hot 340 and built 904. It ran awesome and I still have it. But... I wanted a big block and pistol grip! So that's what it got 500 ci and tko. It still has the 318 torsion bars, front sway bar and leaf springs etc nothing fancy. No rear sway bar. Hell it still has air shocks in the rear that are probably 40 years old! When I rebuilt the front suspension it got a firm feel stage 2 ps box, their reinforced lower control arms, hd adjustable srut rods and kybs. Its not a 9 sec drag car or autocross racer but gets driven a lot and guess what? It handles just fine. Although depending on your needs I would got with a manual steering box, it will free up some space and make things a little easier. At least I would if doing again. I'm using headers, plenty of options but even if you want manifolds they always seem to be on ebay pretty reasonable or you can get them new aftermarket. I went with aluminum radiator but plenty of options there also. Just depends on how much you want to spend etc..

We've all made money buying and selling cars.... well and lost money lol!. So who cares if you "flip" it at least someone can enjoy the car. Usually when I come across a good buy and think about flipping I end up keeping the damn thing and it gets stuffed in the barn! Its your car do what you want.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I am toying the idea of saving the 440 crate for a B body project.
And building this Challenger into a T/A tribute. Lately - I always start out with the idea of keeping my projects then after heavy investment of time and $$
end up selling around the break even point. .
I'll keep the original drive train in any event on this Challenger.