Engine not starting, carb backfires!

The vehicle is a 79' Dodge B300 Extended Cargo Van. Powered by a LA360 5.9 V8 2bbl 2210/2245 Holley carb. Tranny is 727 freshly rebuilt.

So I recently rebuilt the tranny on this thing and drove it for the first time in about a year and it drove great for about 20 miles and then CLACK! the driveshaft was dragging... When I installed the driveshaft I didn't put the clips in the caps that get clamped. That was completely my fault and was able to get that fixed.
So I got the driveshaft hooked back up and thought I was good to go...

I cranked it and it wasn't starting, it finally started but was running rough and died after about 5 seconds... I cranked it again and it started backfiring out of the carb. It wouldn't start again and I ended up killing the battery which apparently was no good anyway...
I noticed the carb was leaking all around the gaskets so I took it off and tightened everything I could and it still leaks. It won't start at all now! I've removed the carb for a rebuild and ordered a Carter rebuild kit.
Could this be a carb issue? It's obvious the carb needs a rebuild either way...
I checked the spark and the ignition seems good...

What the heck is going on with this thing??? Please help!

Check your timing and compression. The chain may have jumped. Also check that the didtributer cap hasn't been knocked out of place.

Jumped chain is pretty common for a high-mile 360LA.

Hold you hand over the intake manifold where the carb mounts and have a helper crank the engine. There should only be suction during cranking. If you feel air puffing up through the manifold the timing chain jumped or broke.

Disable the ignition and plug or disconnect the fuel line going to the carb so fuel doesn't squirt out.

The motor was rebuilt about 20,000 miles ago before I bought it. I also just replaced the water pump and while there I inspected the chain and it's in brand new condition! Barely any play at all!
The cap and timing are good.
I'll be doing the test that 'Powerflow' suggested today...



,

Sounds to me like your carb is flooding, most likely caused by dirt in the needle seat or stuck float or too much fuel pressure. You have probably gas fouled your spark plugs by now. Rebuild the carb, put in new spark plugs and you'll most likely be ready to go.

Had a buddy loose a driveshaft before and it shook so bad the advance plate in the distributor came loose and it done the exact same thing.

Gus

it is easy to jump to conclusions when multiple things appear to fail all at once.
just because they look related doesn't mean they are. And somethings just happen to fail.

Fix the carb first. Then see how it acts.
in the meantime you can verify tdc if you didn't already.
if the carb went bad like it sounds like, you are just hurting yourself trying to trouble shoot with a broken part.

It was the trailing end of the driveshaft and it just made clanking sounds and dragged a little ways...
I was doing about 75mph when it happened! Had it been the front end I might have flipped it!

The carb has always been an issue and was planning a rebuild anyway. I can't afford a new one at the moment so I'm going to rebuild and hope it works. I ordered a Carter rebuild kit...

The carb had fuel seeping out of almost every gasket even after tightening all the screws... There is still a good amount of fuel that squirts out though...

Already have it off the engine and ordered a Carter rebuild kit... I hope it's a good kit, I had a choice and decided to go with the Carter...
It has positive pressure down the intake if that helps eliminate a symptom...?

I pinched the line and did the test directly over the intake port(carb off). 100% positive suction! So that eliminates the chain correct?

Thought you said you had a Holley?

After you fix the carb, you will probably need to replace the gas soaked spark plugs, and change the oil and the oil filter.
Sounds to me like the float stuck open in the carb and flooded everything with raw gas. The plugs are likely not any good anymore, and gas has been dumped into the cylinders and has probably contaminated the oil as well. Since you have been cranking the motor over, you have pumped the gas contaminated oil into the oil filter and it now has also been contaminated.

Your repair order should be:
1) Rebuild the carb.
2) Remove the spark plugs and crank over the motor for a few seconds with no plugs in it.
3) Shoot a couple of pumps of oil into each cylinder and spin the motor over a couple more seconds.
4) Replace the spark plugs. be sure the plug wires are correctly installed.
5) Change the oil and the oil filter.
6) Start the motor and watch for oil pressure.
7) Adjust the carb.
Gene

That's right... apparently Carter makes a rebuild kit for the Holley and so do a handful of other names...

Interesting, since Carter went out of business in the 80's. Wonder who resurrected the name.

Sounds like the timing chain is OK.

This is all maintenance that was due anyway... It has been about 5-6 years since I bought the van and when I did I replaced the head gasket and "rebuilt" the carb but what I really did was clean it well and change the gaskets. I have always had a problem adjusting one of the needles but always got it to run well. I also have always had a stalling issue when giving the pedal a quick press when in reverse, maybe a carb issue? Who knows but either way that list looks good! Thanks.
The good thing is I already have a box of oil and a filter.
The rebuild kit is on it's way and now to pick some plugs up at AutoZone.
Any recommendations on plugs? It's a stock vehicle pretty much...

They are alive and well at https://carterengineered.com
Seem to be focusing on fuel and water pumps. Iast I knew all was still manufactured in the US
the following might be an answer to your question

technicalhotline@firstbrandsgroup.com

Maybe it's old stock not sure... It's off eBay...
I had a choice between Carter, Tomco and Pronto...
I read Tomco has some fitment issues but couldn't find anything in Pronto... I read that Carter made some good stuff and had been around for a while so I decided to try them. The last kit I bought was a Walker and only used the gaskets... I was really green when I did the first "rebuild"...

Well dang, how about that. Learned something new today.

I'm very relieved that's the case! Scared me a little when everyone started to mention that it could be the timing chain because I just did that job! When I did the water pump I was also going to replace the chain and sprocket but the one that's in there is a 'roller chain' and in really good condition! Better than the replacement I bought so it's nice to know whoever rebuilt my engine used quality parts.

To be clear, I know it says " carb backfires" in the title but it only backfired a couple of times out of the carb and then whenever it did start it would run very weak for a few seconds and accelerated it would suffocate.

I took some pictures of 3 spark plugs and I don't think they look bad... I'd rather not have to buy a new set right now if these are still usable...

Can anyone tell me if I'm testing the "choke vacuum diaphragm" correctly???
I pumped it and plugged the hole with my finger and it won't hold vacuum...
Is us supposed to hold vacuum??

Edit: whether I compress it and plug the hole or pump it with a hand pump it's the same result, it won't hold vacuum... Is that the way this little apparatus is supposed to behave or do I need a new one?

Thats the choke pull off, yes you would need new one if it doesn't hold with a vacuum or when you depress and put finger on the hole. Once the engine starts, it is adjusted to pull on the choke (against the choke thermostat trying to keep close) as engine warms up. Then once warm, holds the choke plate open . . . As for the plugs, I would use them . . . can always take a wire brush to clean up a little bit, or if really concerned, file clean the center electrode and the ground electrode . . .

As A12 explained that is the choke pull off and the little diaphragm in there is most likely broken. You can purchase them on Rock auto or alot of places.

I really recommend you perform a detailed rebuild of your Holley Carb, your float height could also be incorrect. Take your time, it's a learning experience and you'll learn alot about the carbs operation. I also would not assume carbs purchased as "rebuilt" were done correctly. I have seen some with missing check weights, etc. You will want to set everything to specs on the carb too. I use the Berry dip and small brushes to get in every passage; also be sure to clean the power piston, it gets gummed up and won't retract. The power valve should come with the kit.

Also be aware that some of those gaskets aren't but cut exactly to spec - the Hygrade kit did not cut out the hole for the air cleaner screw correctly which caused much irritation for me!

As an interesting side note, I saw on Uncle Tony's Garage that some of these Holley castings can warp with time. I didn't know this but it seems to explain some of the things I have seen over the years.

I have a 1978 Dodge Sportsman with the same problem which I haven't licked yet. I haven't performed a compression test yet but am going to. A valve issue could be the culprit as well.

Seems like mine ran fine on Autolites.

I've been planning on doing a complete tear down and rebuild of this carb for a while now, I just didn't expect it would cause such a problem for me on the first drive in months after all the work I've done...
I bought the Haynes Techbook months ago in anticipation of this rebuild...
The power piston was really dirty, I spent quite a few minutes working carb cleaner and WD-40 through it and now it moves the way it should. I've gotten into the habit of being patient and taking the necessary steps when working on my vehicles.
I live far out in a rural area so I use what I can and I had a bottle of PineSol that I ended up soaking the carb body in. Some videos mention PineSol is very similar to parts dip. I soaked for 24hrs and it definitely came out cleaner but the smell is retched and would prefer never to use PineSol ever again!
For the gaskets I ordered a Carter kit so hopefully they know what they're doing... Hopefully the carb is the only issue for now...

I've noticed during the tear down that I'm "missing" some parts and want to find out if it's intentional or I'm going to need them for the carb to work properly. I mean it always worked but I could always tell that it was off a bit and not working as well as it should...
Ok, the first part I noticed "missing" is the 'needle and seat baffle' and the other part is the 'pump discharge needle valve'. The exact model carb I have is a Holley 2210(I think, I might be wrong though) and I'm not sure if those two parts matter or not? I'm more concerned about the 'discharge needle valve'....

As for the 'choke pull-off' I had a choice of a NOS Mopar original part, a Carter or a Standard(Hygrade) one... The Mopar one is obviously the best quality but was a New(old stock) from 1974 and I'd be worried about the rubber in such an old part, same with the Carter... I ended up buying the Hygrade one because I'm hoping it's the newest therefore newest rubber...

[/b]I would consider fully removing the power pump this time, as the fouling could still be in there and maybe caking with the WD40 you used jamming the vacuum passage. The staking washers which hold the pump in are available at Mikes Carburetors. (at my request actually )

Berryman also smells, but works quite well. I can empathize with not wanting to spend the money, I think a can is 30$ or so. These cars can easily be money pits, gone are the days of cheap parts in junkyards and part swaps between enthusiasts..

For ordering the kit make sure you used the number on the fuel bowl, there are many different variants of the 2210's and 2245's with some slight differences.

Missing Parts:
I've opened a few carbs which didn't have the "baffle" which I'm assuming refers to that plate and small screw. The plate doesn't seem to provide any functionality to the float, as it's height is regulated by the tabs on the float itself. May just be added protection from debris, I'm not sure.

Your missing check weight is much more critical however. This component provides resistance to fuel flow from the accelerator pump circuit when the pump is not being pressed and also reduces the flow when it is being pressed. Keep in mind the venturi is a vacuum and could potentialy suck additional fuel in without this regulating measure. This check weight may have fallen out during your first rebuild and it would be worth it to try and find it if possible. If not, Mike's Carburators may have the one you need. He has some helpful videos on how this particular circuit operates and others. See below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGPXAJkWL6g

I don't work for Mike's or anything, it was just very helpful when I was doing all this![b]

[/b]I would consider fully removing the power pump this time, as the fouling could still be in there and maybe caking with the WD40 you used jamming the vacuum passage. The staking washers which hold the pump in are available at Mikes Carburetors. (at my request actually )

Berryman also smells, but works quite well. I can empathize with not wanting to spend the money, I think a can is 30$ or so. These cars can easily be money pits, gone are the days of cheap parts in junkyards and part swaps between enthusiasts..

For ordering the kit make sure you used the number on the fuel bowl, there are many different variants of the 2210's and 2245's with some slight differences.

Missing Parts:
I've opened a few carbs which didn't have the "baffle" which I'm assuming refers to that plate and small screw. The plate doesn't seem to provide any functionality to the float, as it's height is regulated by the tabs on the float itself. May just be added protection from debris, I'm not sure.

Your missing check weight is much more critical however. This component provides resistance to fuel flow from the accelerator pump circuit when the pump is not being pressed and also reduces the flow when it is being pressed. Keep in mind the venturi is a vacuum and could potentialy suck additional fuel in without this regulating measure. This check weight may have fallen out during your first rebuild and it would be worth it to try and find it if possible. If not, Mike's Carburators may have the one you need. He has some helpful videos on how this particular circuit operates and others. See below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGPXAJkWL6g

I don't work for Mike's or anything, it was just very helpful when I was doing all this![b]



[/quote]

I suppose completely removing the 'power piston' would be the best... Staking washers? I don't think my carb has those, the book mentions gently using a hammer to "crush" a little of the cover material around the piston when installing the new piston...

As for the missing parts I wasn't too concerned about the baffle' as I agree with what you said but the accelerator pump check valve looks important! The valve was never in there and I even kept all the leftovers from the Walker kit I used when I technically just replaced the gaskets about 5-6yrs ago and there's no valve I forgot to install...

I've put about 20,000 miles on that van with the carb in that condition, always had the rebuild in mind but never got around to it, now I have no choice if I wanna drive that thing. Not complaining I'm actually glad I'm doing it. I've always gotten between 8 and 10 mpg's in that thing also and I'm hoping for better mpg's after this but I won't get my hopes up.

Thanks for the recommendation(Mike's), I'll check out the website.

Is it possible my carb isn't supposed to have an accelerator pump check valve? I know the Techbook I'm using says to remove it as part of the instructions but it also says to remove the 'vent valve' which mine definitely doesn't have.

It's possible. I would recommend getting the shop manual for your vehicle, they're much more accurate than other commercially available versions. I have the PDF version for the 1978 Dodge which was ordered on Ebay and it does not indicate a difference between the 2210 and 2245 as far as check weights are concerned, but I would consult the shop manual for your specific year and model.

Anyway, good luck I am still experiencing the same problem with my B300 despite rebuilt carb..

Edit: The Hygrade rebuild kits didn't come with a replacement check weight, not sure about the Walker kits.

Thanks! I really hope I get this figured out sooner than later...
I have the Haynes and Chilton guides for the van and I also have the Haynes service manual for Holley carbs... I noticed there's one called the "Dodge Compact Service Manual" and I assume that there's a variety...

The Walker kit didn't come with a check weight only needle and seat for the float.

The van has always had a stumble at acceleration and sometimes would stall when accelerating in reverse quickly but other than that it ran ok up until this last problem which I'm hoping is the carb but either way was due for a rebuild!

What if I buy a check weight and install it even though it isn't specified for my carb? What's the worst that could happen? I'd have to buy another rebuild kit for the gaskets... If I don't install a weight I know it'll run better than before, assuming the carb was the problem and that isn't too bad...

So far I've found two different posts on the web from people with similar situations. They both have a 2210 and both found there is no check weight in the carb... I'm hoping it wasn't part of my carbs design because tracking down the info I need has proven difficult. I even emailed "Mike's" !

Could the check weight be the same for most Holley's?? Couldn't a needle from a Holley 5200 fit in a 2210?

Ok so I kinda have some good news... I found a video of the fuel circuit on a 2245 and the mechanic mentions that the 2210 is similar so I think this is a definite step towards progress!

Here's the link: https://www.carburetor-blog.com/knowledge-base/holley-2245-pump/

I've been searching for a needle for a 2210 and nothing so maybe searching for a 2245 might work! At the very least I have the dimensions of the check weight now!!

The more research I do the more I keep finding posts of people running into the same situation of a missing needle valve... I wonder why so many similar/same carbs are missing the check weight?

Ok so I got a response from Mike's Carburetors and they said they have nothing for my carb.
The type that's supposed to be in there is a "square pointy" style check weight and the supposed dimensions are .59"x.20" and Mike's has a "round" style check weight which dimensions are .517"x.156". Couldn't that work or does it have to be the exact one?

Well... ??? Anybody out there?? JK...

Here's what I've figured out so far after digging around and speaking to a few "expert's"...
The size weight(.59"x.20") that goes in my carb(Holley 2210) isn't sold by anyone that sells these parts apparently and the one person that I asked that rebuilds my exact model uses a smaller(.42"x.13") needle weight. I trust that this person rebuilds and sells them successfully using that smaller weight given they have a 100% feedback rating on eBay... If you're wondering which seller it's "unitedautomotive".
So if this person successfully builds a 2210 with a smaller weight then theoretically I should be able to successfully use a similar shaped weight of any size between .59"x.20" and .41"x.13".
So those are my findings... I've ordered 3 different weights from Mike's Carburetors and will make my decision once I have them.
The size weights I ordered are:
.7"x.17" which I will file down to length.
.517"x.156" and is the round style.
.538"x.14" which is just a tad larger than the one the "builders" on eBay use.

I'm sure anyone of these will work!

The accelerator check valve is put there to stop siphoning out of that circuit at cruising speeds, I found out about them the hard way back in the early 1960s on a Rochester 4GC carb on a 1957 Chevy 283 motor, it was my bosses car and he ask me to rebuild it. He ran the gas station in SO CA that I was working at.
It was my first carb. to take apart and dip it in carb cleaner that he bought and I put back together, I didn't see the check ball fall out and couldn't tell were the new one in the kit was suppose to go so I left it out
He ended up taking it to a local professional shop that fixed it for him. I ask that guy later what was wrong with it and what it took to fix it but he wouldn't tell me
That was along time ago, good luck on fixing all the issues you may have

While you are in there verify the jet sizes. I had a slant 6 with a 1bbl Holley that got horrible mileage and ran poorly. It had a reman carb on it when I bought it and I put another reman on it with no change. After digging thru the manual I could on conclude the jetting was off so I cracked the warranty seal and sure enough it had a #664 jet were the book called for a #50. Bought the right jet, put it in and it made everything alright.

I looked at my go to carb parts source and they don't show that check valve though in other applications I have seen a check ball used when a check valve was shown. That might be an option for you.

https://carburetion.walkerproducts.com/holley/?

Try this guy . . . . he was way helpful for me on my 64 Ford Falcon 6cyl 1bblcarb

https://carbkitsource.com/

You know you're good when you end up with extra parts! Lol.
I wonder why the mechanic wouldn't tell you what you did wrong? That's how people learn!
I'm sure this sucker will be up and running soon.
I expect I'll have to continuously work on my van though until every component is rebuilt or replaced.
I should've done this a long time ago with the carb but it always ran well enough for me to disregard it...
I'll keep posting my progress! Thanks.

It's always run decent when it's all adjusted correctly but it's main issues were stalling when quickly acceleration in reverse or forward. I've never been able to just stomp the pedal because it would bog out so I've always had to ease into acceleration! The mileage I've gotten out of this thing is surprisingly horrible! I've been getting 8-10 mpg's and I'd like at least 12 maybe 15 but I won't get my hopes up...

I'll dig around a bit more and check on those jets, thanks! Never hurts to check... How do I find the proper jet size anyway? My Techbook has nothing on jet size!

The guy I spoke with from Mike's Carburetors suggested the possibility of a spring and ball in place of the needle style weight but wasn't suggesting the exact part or spring or weight so I got fed up and just went with what the eBay builder does... Like I explained two posts ago, if this guy is successfully rebuilding the 2210 and selling it on eBay with 100% feedback then the smaller style weight he uses must be working fine. I don't think I'll have an issue with either of the weights I ordered...

So I found an interesting bit of info when looking up the main jets.
I live in Arizona at about a 5100ft elevation and read people mention something about swapping the jet's with either a smaller or bigger size making it run leaner or richer depending on the elevation.
What am I looking for here at 5100ft high? Do I need to run leaner or richer?
The jet's in my carb are #638 & #641.

This website(https://www.binderplanet.com/forums/index.php?threads/stock-jet-size-for-a-2210c.44145/) speaks of a #533 jet for non-California models... They also mention about 4 or 5 other sizes...

So are the jet's I have too big and too rich??
I need to do some digging on this...

the factory service manual had the jet sizes listed in it. This was for a 72 Dart and the Holley 1bbl in it used the same jets as the Holley 4bbl's. The FSM will also have a lot of other carb specs adn settings in it specificatlly for your application, rather than a more generic set from a one size fits all aftermarket manual.

Holley 553 is just a close tolerance hand selected #53 jet. But I wouldn't use 2210 specs on a 2245.

Thanks.

I purchased my van up in Washington state and the previous owners rebuilt the engine and I assume they may have also rebuilt the carburetor last so I would also assume they built it to run at sea level and now the van is about 5000ft higher elevation. If I understand correctly the higher the elevation the smaller the hole correct?
If my carb has what is roughly two #64 jets then I'm looking at getting something in the 50's??

Edit: I read that for every 2000ft increase you want to decrease the jet one size...
According to that scale I should get a #61 & #60... I think... Assuming whoever installed those jets did it correctly...

Here's some more findings...

You need to get the factory service manual, RockAuto sells them on CD for a minimal cost, assuming you have a computer with a CD drive anymore. I had to dust off my old one and copy the files to a thumb drive.

At your altitude I would change it down two sizes

I do not...
I can't find it on there website...do you have the link?

Isn't what's in the picture I posted a couple posts ago out of that same manual you're talking about? It says #63 & #65 and if that's correct I'll need about two sizes down .

Do you see that? and the one's I have are .641 & .638 so maybe the ones I have are spot on...? I still need to adjust for high altitude...

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,1978,b300,5.9l+360cid+v8,1075092,literature,repair+manual,10335

Sounds about right.

This thread has been really educational to read, learning from troubleshooting advice and the results.



On this note, I bought our '67 Satellite from Golden, CO up around 5,700 ft. The seller apologized for how poorly the car ran, the plugs were all black, etc. I got it for $1,000 less than he was asking. I suspected what was "wrong" and just started driving home to NY. By the time I got to my first overnight stay in Grand Isle, NE (altitude 2,000ft) the engine was running great, and the plugs were all cleared up. The altitude made it run way rich, was all that was "wrong".

Cheers,
- Art

Good morning B300, sorry I was absent and have been reviewing the thread. Recall that we mentioned the power piston which is operated by a vacuum connection. When the throttle is open 60 degrees there is a hole which aligns and connects the vacuum circuit, be sure this is not occluded with dirt or material. You'll need to rotate the throttle and look for the hole in the middle. This could be causing your stalls at acceleration. Replacing the cup on the accelerator pump could also be helpful

The manual I recommend is the shop manual, I have the one for the 1978 year - these were used by the dealerships and not necessarily widely available to the public at the time. Mine was available on CD off of Ebay, but the link below could be for the 1979.
https://www.factoryrepairmanuals.co...er-factory-shop-service-manual-original/

I reviewed my manual for jet size but couldn't find it, but it does indicate a difference in the power piston assembly between 2210 and the 2245 carbs but not the check weights so I assume the latter will be identical. The problem is that these two models appear to be described together in most reference material, however there are crucial differences! The sheet that you posted earlier appears to be a reference for carb rebuilding for Holley, but not sure.

I'm dismayed that Mike's carburetors hasn't been working out for you, I don't think a spring and ball will work with our setup and the weights that you ordered are a good educated guess..

B300:

You're in luck, I checked my stock and I did have a 2210 (R6452) back there. They jets are both .642 and there is a check weight. I have no way of knowing if these are the originals but there is a strong possibility. I hope this is a little helpful

Thanks! I checked it out and it specifies the years 77-78 and mine's a 79', maybe that's why I couldn't find it...

That's awesome!
I got mine for $900 plus battery and after about 50 miles the oil started getting milky! Quite the opposite of what happened to you... I assume they thought it was a cracked head or block and just didn't want to deal with it so they decided to sell it to the first "sucker" that came along... Little did they know it would work out to my benefit and was only a head gasket! Hah!
Apparently Chrysler engines starting in 1980 were made in Mexico and are notorious for cracking heads and or blocks due to the mixing of inferior metals into the casting... It just so happens that my engine was one of the last ones built in the last month(December) of the last year(1979) they made them out of pure cast iron in Canada before they moved the plant to Mexico! So I got lucky and swapped out the head gasket for about $100 or so! Sometimes it just works out!

https://mymopar.com/

may not go late enough but there are service manuals and part manuals for free here.

Good morning B300, sorry I was absent and have been reviewing the thread. Recall that we mentioned the power piston which is operated by a vacuum connection. When the throttle is open 60 degrees there is a hole which aligns and connects the vacuum circuit, be sure this is not occluded with dirt or material. You'll need to rotate the throttle and look for the hole in the middle. This could be causing your stalls at acceleration. Replacing the cup on the accelerator pump could also be helpful

The manual I recommend is the shop manual, I have the one for the 1978 year - these were used by the dealerships and not necessarily widely available to the public at the time. Mine was available on CD off of Ebay, but the link below could be for the 1979.
https://www.factoryrepairmanuals.co...er-factory-shop-service-manual-original/

I reviewed my manual for jet size but couldn't find it, but it does indicate a difference in the power piston assembly between 2210 and the 2245 carbs but not the check weights so I assume the latter will be identical. The problem is that these two models appear to be described together in most reference material, however there are crucial differences! The sheet that you posted earlier appears to be a reference for carb rebuilding for Holley, but not sure.

I'm dismayed that Mike's carburetors hasn't been working out for you, I don't think a spring and ball will work with our setup and the weights that you ordered are a good educated guess..



[/quote]


Hey RustyDuster! Thanks! I appreciate the info! Sorry I took so long to reply, it's the holidays and things are kinda crazy right now so I've taken a break...
I do recall you mentioning the power piston and at first I wasn't going to remove it but decided I shouldn't be so lazy since it's mostly disassembled...
I've completely disassembled the carb and removed the piston and I soaked the body for 24 hrs in PineSol... It's all I had, I live far out on a ranch in rural Arizona so I have to use what I have... I've also taken some thin wire and cleaned out all the tiny little channels and ports...

Thanks for the link, I'll look for the CD version because I can't afford $80 right now At this point I may not even need it though... From the info I've gathered so far it looks like my carb had the proper jets and I've decided on a #61 and #63 at my elevation...

Mike's actually got back to me eventually suggesting this weight(https://www.carburetor-parts.com/17-16-2.html) after telling them which weight the seller on eBay uses for their rebuilds... I don't think I'll have a problem as long as there's a steady, solid stream of fuel that comes out of there...

Yea the more common and general manuals lump the 2010 and 2045 together but don't really described the differences in detail. They may mention there's a difference but not in detail...

All that's left is to reassemble the carb and install it...

I'll be back with an update on my progress and hopefully the carb is the issue...

That's great to hear and Happy belated Thanksgiving!

Definitely keep us updated either way and if we're still experiencing the same problem we'll start looking at timing and some other possibilities.

Look forward to hearing from ya!

Wow that's pretty cool! Thanks! I briefly checked it out and only saw that they have a parts catalog for my year vehicle... Maybe I missed something else...

Edit: what I was trying to say is they Don't have one for my year vehicle... Not sure if any of that info would work...

Thank you, you as well....
I hope I haven't been keeping anyone in suspense! I have too many projects and still haven't finished the carb. I just about finished cleaning every piece though and hopefully finish tomorrow.
I know I said I was going to use one of the smaller check weights but I decided to grind down the longer one I ordered. The one size .7"x.17" which is too long but just the right width... The smaller ones were just too loose and even though they probably would work I wanted to get as close as possible! I've included a picture of the weights side by side and the larger one in the carb... I think it's as close to the original as it's going to get, I'm happy with that!

One more very important thing... I've been reading about and saw a video by Mike's Carburetors that I can spray the gaskets with silicone spray or use gasoline on them to be able to reuse them, it keeps them from sticking and tearing??? I like the idea just in case I have to take it back apart... Any thoughts on this? Anyone?

soak the gaskets in wd40 a little while and they should not stick.

and after you rebuild you carb just make sure you do NOT have any WATER/MOISTURE in your fuel tank/line/filter/pump

I just figured this out myself after 350$ of troubleshooting/rebuilding as I had hard starting-no starting and what I thought was vapor locking THEN no ign spark with low power/carb backfire/stalling & exhaust backfire

2 carbs x2 rebuilds

2 ign. systems.

fuel pump then convert to eclectic pump with a return line.

found 1.5 gallons of water in 22-gallon tank when I drained it, flushed it.

complete fix was a can of BG fuel drier!

nothing more disappointing than rebuilding 2 different carbs only to fill them with water/fuel again to finally figuring out the issue and rebuild one a 3x after a tank flush/fuel drier/22 gallons run through it. engine runs great now.

if I had only started by checking the fuel first.

Hi B300,

I fished out the check weight that I believe came out of a 2210 that I presume is stock and it measured .182 and .667 on my calipers for reference. Keep in mind my caliper says "West Germany" on it so its a bit old but probably still good!

Regarding the gaskets, the ones from the Hygrade kits seem to have less problem with sticking. Although an experienced mechanic (Uncle Tony) has suggested that the old Holley gaskets were purposely made sticky to compensate for warping in the carb castings that Holley became aware of somewhere along the line.

Another poster mentioned checking gas tank and if you haven't done so, now is a great time to do it. There's nothing more frustrating than gumming up a newly rebuilt needle and seat due to particulate matter in that tank!

I ended up having a can of spray silicone and went that route, apparently you can coat most gaskets with lubricants and I always thought they were, in general, supposed to be installed dry or with adhesive... That was surprising...
I didn't flush the lines or tank because I had just been on a short drive where I I ran the tank dry so I'm pretty sure there's no water in the system... I also have a clear fuel filter and no separation...

Hey Rusty, it would seem I got as close as possible in needle size with what I could find but unfortunately I don't know if it made any change as I finished installing the carb and still can't get the engine to run!!

In regards to water in the system I didn't flush it because I had just ran the tank dry a few gallons prior to the break down. I ran the tank dry and filled it with fresh gas and it drove like it always did for about 25 miles and then it broke down. I also put a new fuel filter on and cleared the line from the filter to the carb before attaching it to the carb.

I started it and it ran at low idle for about 15 seconds until I gassed it and it backfired then died... I can get it to start and idle very low for a few seconds but it dies...
I noticed my carb is warped, here's a picture... I had to put rtv in the crack because no way the gasket was going to seal it! So much for spraying the gaskets...
IDK what to do now... I'm pretty sure I did a good job cleaning and rebuilding it... Could it be something other than the carb???

Oh! I also thought I should mention that I ran the 12v test on the choke thermostat coil and there was no reaction... Not sure if this would have

on a bunch of the old holley double pumper I have flat filed the main body & throttle plates flat when warped slightly.

if you can not file it flat then maybe 2 gaskets would seal the gap.

if not you have parts for another used carb or a reman carb that might need correcting.

RTV and gas is a no-no. Pull it back apart and get it in a press to straighten it. The air cleaner stud should go all the way through to the base to keep this from happening, If your air horn has the stud tapped into the top air horn you have a 76 or older carb. There was an old TSB that had instructions along with a bridge kit to help correct this.

out of curiosity, have you taken the sending unit out of the tank to check for a clogged pickup sock ?

The air cleaner stud goes down into the main body of the carb but the hole is damaged, almost stripped but still works with some plumbers tape! Is plumbers tape also a no no?
If I pull it back apart I'll have to buy another rebuild kit since I put rtv on the top gasket where the gap is...

We'll, I kinda have some good news... I went out this morning and started the motor and it ran at low idle for a good minute or two(better than yesterday) but adjusting the mixture screws isn't doing much... It also backfires out of the carb and dies when I press the gas...

Could this be valve related maybe? I feal like whatever issue I'm having is something else and not the carb... I'm probably wrong though...
The book says it could be egr, timing, vacuum leak, damaged valve springs or float adjustment...???

I have not... Wouldn't that show in the stream coming out of the carb??? In other words there shouldn't be much fuel squirting into the carb if the sock is clogged correct?? The streams into the carb look good...

maybe, maybe not. depending on when and how you visualized the carb squirt.
i had a 74 newyorker stump me with this one time. although it didn't backfire, it ran great, then would just quit. sometimes going down the road, idling, WOT, you never knew when.
i replaced the fuel pump, filter, rebuilt the carb, on and on.
then for some reason, and i can't remember why, i pulled the tank, and found it crusty and the sock plugged.
now i had owned this car for a while, and did not have any problems with it. oil changes, fresh gas all the time , etc.

i know this may be a very LONG shot, but who knows ?
just throwing something out there that may, or may not be even remotely related.

and i just thought of something else that bit me in the azz one time, causing similar problems. my cousin Charlie's model A hot rod.
that turned out to be a PLUGGED "vented" gas cap !
same deal. run good, good carb stream, then poof ! quit ! ....... fire up ok right after, then same thing.

as 'ol Cab says, "that DADGUMMED Murphy guy !"

is the float set too low?

I guess it's possible... I'll put that on the list of things to check...
It's looking like I'm going to have to pull the carb and rebuild again anyway because the gaskets are swamped with fuel! I know I torqued the screws tight enough and the new gaskets match the old gaskets, except for the one that meets the carb at the manifold.
I have to flatten the surfaces anyway and get rid of the rtv I guess... I'll be ordering a Walker kit because they give you ALL the gaskets! The Carter kit I just bought only comes with the ones for that exact model but somehow give you the wrong carb to manifold gasket for the 2210!

I measured the float level a handful of times before assembly... I'm sure it's not the float level...

Too bad you are so far away. I have 4 or 5 of these carbs sitting in my lower garage I'd give you. I've always replaced these 2bbls with a 4 bbl carb & intake.

From past experience, if the top is (or has been) warped, those carbs never work right. When the top gets distorted, I believe it messes other stuff up. You can press them flat, and file them flat, but most still didn't work well afterwards (I rebuilt carbs for a shop for several years).

Just a few comments about your expectations concerning your 360. I've owned a lot of them, and 15 mpg is probably not going to happen, maybe a rare long trip on flat ground a time or two over a 1000 fill ups. Those motors are a 8-12 mpg motors, regardless of what they were installed in, or regardless of any thing you try to do to improve the mpg. I could get near 12 more often with a 4 barrel carb, but rarely got there with a 2 bbl. You can make a lot of power with a 360, and they can built to be very fast, or they can be built to drag a house off its foundation, just don't expect more the 8-12 mpg at best (many were 8-10 mpg).

The fuel sock in the tank could be a problem, as could any hose in the fuel line, or any steel line that looks a little crusty. Any original looking hose or steel line is game to cause a problem. You only need a restricted fuel flow enough to empty the float bowl for a few seconds to make a motor die.

A plugged vented gas cap is as easy to check, remove the cap, leave it off, and see if the motor runs longer. If it does, replace the cap. I suspect your 79 van does not have a vented cap, it likely has a vent line that goes to a carbon canister, but if that vented line is plugged, or partially plugged, you can still test that by removing the gas cap. If removing the gas cap makes it run longer, you need to check your gas tank vent system. Again, any original looking hose or steel line could be the problem, if a vent problem is found. If removing the gas cap does not solve your problem, anything you do with the vent system won't help and would be a waste of time and money at this point. Gene

My 2002 360 magnum was injected and got 12 to 14 in a 3/4 ton van on all interstate trips.
Don't think a carbed one can do it.
The carbed one I had got 10 to 11

I've given up any hope of getting better mileage at this point...
Yea too bad I don't live closer, wherever you are... If you're willing to ship one I'll gladly pay... Honestly though if this carb doesn't work out I'll give getting a 4barrel and intake some serious thought... I don't really have much money though so that wouldn't happen any time soon and I hate to leave my van just sitting because where I live the rats will get to the motor and destroy it!

Yes I have an evap canister venting the tank... My gas cap isn't vented and never actually sat snug against the lip of the filler tube... I recently put an extra gasket on the cap to lessen the gap and it still won't sit perfectly snug against the opening... I'm going to go double check the carb adjustments and then pop that cap off and see what happens...

It's weird that this happened at the exact time my drive shaft fell off! Maybe it's just coincidence? I already looked for any damage but didn't see anything... Maybe I missed something? Maybe the shaft pinched a line or something...

I better get started because everytime I try and start the van I drain the battery and it takes about 2 hrs to charge on my generator...

Thanks for the info and if it's something that'll help my situation I'll pay shipping for one of those carbs if your willing to send one!
Thanks!

Mines about 10mpgs...

Alright everybody! I found something that may or may not be the issue idk...
I found some damage under the distributor cap! It looks like the reluctor is damaged! Could this be the issue???

That's not good but I don't think it's the problem. Be sure to use a non magnetic feeler gauge to check the gap at .008

and check it on all 8 points as the shaft could be bent. That most likely is not all your problems but it needs to be right.

Yes, it could very well be an issue. Reluctors are cheap and not hard to replace, pickup is probably iffy too as that is what was smacking the reluctor.

Or a whole new distributor for under $40 at Rock Auto.

At first I thought, "no way do they sell one for under $40" but it's true and I'm surprised!
I'll go that route because right now the cheapest I've found a reluctor and pickup is $40 so it would make sense for me just to buy a new distributor!

I'm not saying I'm getting the $40 one from 'rock auto', not sure if SKP is any good but at the price I'm replacing the pickup and reluctor I'm just a few bucks shy of a new distributor. I saw many options between $40 and $100...
Rock Auto is the cheapest but unless someone has kind words for SKP Distributors I probably won't get that one...

Rockauto has the reluctor and pickup for about half that price.

We'll, looks like I have to wait about another week or so to get this fixed... I have 3 things to order now... I guess this gives me time to drop the fuel tank...

What would happen if I use a regular feeler gauge??

How could that have happened though???

I saw damage when someone "set the points" on a Mopar electronics ignition system, that would have done it had it not stripped the plastic gear off the slant six distributor shaft instead.

A wore out bushing might also let the shaft wobble about enough to do it as well.

My guess would be the bushings in the distributer shaft are loose or the shaft is bent and is letting the shaft wobble around. The teeth are damaged on both pieces because they have come in contact with each other. Are all the teeth damaged, or only the teeth on one side of the shaft? Damaged teeth on one side of the shaft would indicate a bent shaft. Can you move the shaft side to side any? Side to side movement indicates worn bushings. Worn bushings allow the shaft to wobble and the damage could be any number of teeth around the shaft, or all of them. The clearance is only .080- .010 so it wouldn't take much movement for contact to be made. If there is side to side movement, or the shaft is bent, replacing the damaged ignition pieces won't be a long lasting fix. The distributor could have been damaged when the motor was pulled out, or put back in with the motor rebuild.

I somewhat disagree with the others, if the pickup has been damaged by the contact, (the reason for the chipped teeth was contact with each other) the pickup could be failing when it gets hot, or may still be making contact if the shaft is bent or the bushings are loose. If the shaft is bent, and just part of the teeth are damaged, the odds are pretty good the pickup has been moved (at the screws) and the distance between 1/2 of the teeth that are undamaged may be on the edge of giving a good signal.

The reason Mopar instructs you to use a brass feeler gauge is because both pieces use magnetic pulses to function. A steel feeler gauge could give you a false reading of the clearance because of the magnetic pull on the steel as you check the clearances. The magnetic pull wouldn't effect the brass feeler gauge so its easier to get a good clearance feel.

Send me a PM with a mailing address. Gene

I've attached pics of both sides of the reluctor...
Each pic shows a tooth towards the pickup, each tooth is the exact opposite of the one in the other picture so these two pictures should show every tooth on each side! Hope that makes sense... The teeth facing the pickup in each picture aren't lined up perfectly either so disregard the gap there... I'm sorry the quality isn't very good either!

I tried to wiggle the shaft but it really doesn't move much side to side, a little but not really enough to warrant concern I don't think... In the pictures it would appear that one side has more damage than the other but they're all damaged somewhat. I guess the damage sort of does taper to one side... Bent shaft?
However it happened wouldn't it had to have been recent? The truth is idk how many miles is on this rebuild. When I bought it there was supposedly about 17k miles on it and I put about 13k on it and I hadn't touched the carb or distributor since I bought it so...

Thanks for the explanation of the feeler gauges, I get it... I appreciate the knowledge!

So you're really going to send me a 2210? I know you said you would replace them with 4 barrels and an intake so am I to assume it's ready to bolt on?? I really do appreciate your generosity! Thank You. The carb I have is totally warped and I can't afford a new one! The reason I didn't file it flat before assembly is because of all the channels and grooves in the casting, it would throw the whole thing off! It's not like resurfacing a block or head where there's much more meat on the bone right?... I didn't realize it could be pressed either... Seems kinda risky to me...

I would also like to know the setup you replaced the 2barrel with if you don't mind...?

The trouble with a 4bbl conversion is the kickdown linkage. 4bbl vans used to be common in junkyards, not anymore. When I put a 4bbl on my '82 Ramcharger I went to the dealer to source parts, there was not a single kickdown part the same, not even the return springs.

So some backyard fabrication is the cheapest option today?

IIRC, the throttle kickdown linkage to the carb needs to be lengthened an inch or so? In the seventies I once spliced a piece of round rod into one for a conversion, worked fine after adjustment. That's all I recall doing, didn't change or modify anything else.

Here are the facts on that style Holley. You do not file it you straighten it. If the air cleaner stud threads into the air horn than it is a early model not what a 79 would have. Those are junk. You need the long style stud that screws down into the base or mid section. The bridge kit was a band aid for this. Here is a photo. Plus your model van should have a 2245 series not the 2210. Post some pics of the stud and air horn.

Yea I have the one that screws into the base with the long stud... I've always had a problem with it coming loose, when I took it apart I could see the hole is damaged and maybe even causing a vacuum leak? The threads in that hole are just about stripped out!

You got the stud upside down. Are the threads in the top/air horn or below it?

Oh man...

They're below the horn...

Edit: I just went out there to check and it's not because if I flip it that end isn't long enough to reach the threads... The lip prevents it from going down far enough and won't reach the threads... Maybe it's not the correct stud?

The lip is supposed to be able to be tightened down against the air horn. It helps prevent the warpage you have. What is the list number off that carb.

I understand, must be the wrong stud...
Carb # is:
R6765A
3751465
3383

Those are all the numbers on the carb...

Dan, Any carb I have here has been out of service for probably close to 20 years. It won't be a bolt on and go. I haven't had anything with a carb since 2011 (except the lawnmower), and that would have been a 4bbl on a 360 in a truck that got totaled in 2011. I believe I have a 2bbl carb still bolted to the manifold on a 77, 78, or 79, 360 out of a van in my lower garage, but it was years ago it ran, and then the motor had 200,000 miles on it. I do have a box full of those 360 or the big block 2bbl carbs in that lower garage as well.

Those 4bbl swaps I did was way back in the last century. I used a factory intake and a rebuilt carb. I either sourced the kickdown stuff from a junk yard, or fabricated my own linkage, probably neither of which could easily be done these days. I still have a bunch of the kickdown linkage here, but identifying what it used to be on would be a challenge. I believe the 4bbl kick down linkage was a 3 rod linkage with 2 pivots.
I'll look around tomorrow and see what is still here as for 2bbl carbs, the last few years have been shop cleanup. Gene

Hey, whatever helps get this van back in action I appreciate!
I'll be happy just getting this thing working again and the 4bbl swap was just a thought since you mentioned you've gotten better mileage out of it... Somebody mentioned it... If it's not as easy as swapping the intake and carb then I won't bother... At least not any time soon...
I've spent so much time on this van but it's so important to have it working because of how far I live away from any city...

I'm waiting on a new distributor and a new rebuild kit... I'll be pulling the carb off and attempt to straighten it some time in the next couple of days. I really don't like the idea of pressing the carb on a press but I guess that's how it's done? I feal like the thing will just shatter! Hopefully I don't break it.

Support the sides and lightly press the center. It will move like hot butter.

I'm trying to catch up in this thread so here's some commentary:

My 1978 B300 has a 2245, R7871A. For the 1979 (I don't have the service manual for 79), I see listed R7590, R8597-R8598, R8925, R9816. Not the one you listed, they appeared to be 2245s. You definitely have the stud upside down there, possibly someone in the past replaced the carb with a different one which just happened to be available but not the correct one.

I am still leaning towards timing / distributor being your issue.

Someone suggested a soft failure of the fuel pump, and these can be difficult to assess visually but I would expect a rough/lean run in that instance but not a "no start". I am assuming of course you have checked the coil? Sorry if you may have mentioned it but the thread is getting long!

regarding 4 bbl swaps, when assessing a problem I try to change as few variables at a time during the diagnosis!

Keep us posted!

I hope I have some flat enough surfaces...

I appreciate you keeping up on this thread! Going on page 6 now!
I searched for my carb numbers and I can't find them anywhere... not one mention of my numbers in the Holley Haynes Manual either.
I would also agree that it's the distributor/timing... The motor starts almost every time and actually idles a little on the weak side but it's when I accelerate that it backfires and stalls. It would make sense to me that the dis. is causing the issue. I know the fuel has good flow to the carb because when I installed it I installed a new filter and cleared out the line from the filter to the carb by putting a clear hose on the end of the fuel line into a clear container and cranking it for a bit... I could see a surge of fuel everytime the pump would spin so I know there's plenty of fuel getting to the carb...
As for the coil I ran a resistance test on it and it checked out...
On the 4bbl swap it was just a thought, I can't afford to buy a new manifold and carb right now...
I ordered a Cardone distributor which should be arriving today. I haven't heard the best things about Cardone distributors, I hope I get a good one!
I'll be back to post my progress!

https://www.carburetion.com/CarbNumber.asp?Number=R6765

These guys say 74 Dodge truck

https://carbkitsource.com/numbers/Holley/index8.html

Interesting, it says 74-80 Truck .. Maybe it's the correct carb after all... The "tag" on my van classifies it as a truck...
My pump lever is different though, it has two slots and I haven't seen any other carb with the same lever...

Dan, Several different carbs will bolt onto your intake and will function well. from about 1966 through 1983, These carbs used on the 360, 383 and 400 had more air flow and were a larger size then the carbs used on the 273 to 318 motors The smaller 318 carb and the larger 360 carb do not interchange. Mopar used either a Carter Carb in the early years and switched to Holey carbs in 74, I think, probably due to the emissions enforcement Both the larger Carter and the Holley both fit the intake and back then were not a difficult thing to interchange, I think the rerouting of the gas line was about the hardest part of the swap.

I suspect the biggest difference between the Holley carbs off a 360 and the Holley carbs off a 383 or 400 was probably the jets and the metering rod diameter. Over the course of time, several things changed inside the Holley carbs. I used the generic carb kits because those had all the gaskets and I would just use the gaskets that matched the carb in hand at the time. As the production dates of the vehicles and their OEM carbs moved on, the amount of adjustments the average person could make disappeared. The early 70s carbs were much more adjustable then the late 70s carbs were. Also of note is that many of the adjustments on the late 70s and early 80s carbs were more complicated to do correctly. It is my opinion that the earlier carbs were better carbs, but time has not done them any favors. Worn throttle bushings has become a huge problem with carbs and those worn throttle bushing have become a vacuum leak that is hard to detect. Gene

Alright Gene... everybody else... I have great news! It's alive! It was the distributor the whole time! With all the work I did cleaning and readjusting the plugs and especially rebuilding the carb, this thing runs better than it's ever run before!!! Seriously! My van runs so freaking smooth right now!
It use to hesitate and stall out some times and now it seriously runs like a brand new engine! The distributor and the carb were untouched basically since I bought it. I only replaced the needle and seat, the cup and gaskets on the carb when I bought it and also only replaced the cap on the distributor. That work was definitely due on this van and boy it sure paid off!
Thank You Thank You to everyone especially you old schoolers for your plethora of information!

You don't have to send me that carb anymore Gene! I appreciate it very much sir!

That van has more work that needs to be done on it so I'm sure I'll be back soon...
I'm very thankful for everyone hear on this thread! I couldn't have done it without you all!!

Glad to hear about your success.

a good outcome always deserves a "happy dance" !
don't be afraid to ask about something. lots of experience here willing to share.

Good deal. I'm happy to hear it runs well.

I'll take the carb back down to the lower garage and throw it back on the shelf. Gene

Appreciate it!
I'll take you up on that now!

Can anyone tell me how to adjust the fast idle??
Do I adjust the choke when cold and fast idle screw when it's warm? I thought I heard to adjust the fast idle cold but that maxes out the screw before it can reach 1600rpm...

Any tips and pointers for timing?? Do I time when warm?

What should I do warm? and what should I do cold??


I have the manuals it's just I have trouble making sense of instructions some times... Between the videos I watch and the books I can get some conflicting information...

There should be two screws on your throttle arm. One screw makes contact with with the carb's body, that is the hot idle speed adjusting screw. You adjust the motor RPM with that screw after the motor is up to operating temp and the choke plate is wide open.

The second screw seats against a plastic cam piece that moves with the choke plate by means of a rod linkage. That plastic cam piece has 3 steps on the that the screw can sit against. To set that screw for proper position, With the motor not running, you will need to open the throttle about 1/2 way open, and manually close the choke plate. The closed choke plate should lift the linkage up and lift up the plastic cam piece so when the throttle is released, the screw sits against the highest step that the screw can contact (but you need to be sure the throttle was open far enough for the linkage to lift the plastic cam all the way up without the screw touching the cam before the throttle is released). The information on the carb rebuild kit will give you the proper way to set that screw for the "fast idle". Things have changed enough through the years, you need to set "the fast idle speed" the way the info instructs you to set it.

There is one more important note here. While setting the fast idle speed, there is also a vacuum diaphragm called "the choke pull off" that needs to be tested. The diaphragm has a rod linkage the connects to the choke linkage. There is also a vacuum hose connected to the diaphragm that also connects to a vacuum port on the bottom throttle body. The vacuum hose needs to be soft, pliable, and without cracks or it needs to be replaced before the test can be done. You need to disconnect that vacuum hose at the carb base, and push the plunger on the diaphragm in all the way, then while its pushed in, cover the end of the hose with your finger to seal the hose. When you release the plunger, the plunger should stay sucked in until you release your finger from the hose end. If the plunger does not remain sucked in, either the hose or the choke pull off plunger is defective. Replace either (or both) of the defective parts. If the plunger remains sucked in until you remove your finger covering the vacuum hose, the choke pull off and the vacuum hose are good
The purpose of the choke pull off is to open the choke plate enough for the carb to get enough air when the motor is cold and the choke is in operation, so the motor can run. If the choke pull off and the hose are good, the next thing that needs to be checked is how much the choke pull off linkage is opening the choke plate. This test needs to be done with the plunger fully pushed in on the pull off diaphragm. You either need a vacuum pump to keep the plunger in, or you can push it in manually, and use something to temporarily plug the end of the hose. You will need both hands to check the gap between the choke housing and the choke plate. That gap is normally checked with a drill bit of a specific size (the instruction do lay out the process and the drill size).

The process is: Motor not running and choke rod from the intake disconnected. With the fast idle set screw positioned on the highest step on the plastic cam, and the throttle in the closed position against that screw, you insert the correct size drill bit along the inside of the carb body, and apply slight pressure to close the choke plate. The drill bit should slide in and out between the carb body and the choke plate with a slight drag. The little rod between the diaphragm and the choke linkage is either bent together at the U bend for more opening, or spread farther apart at the U bend to close the plate more. A slight bend can make a huge difference in the amount the choke plate opens and closes with this adjustment. After the adjustment is complete, reconnect the vacuum hose to the carb base, and reconnect the choke rod from the intake.


As a program note, after a few engine cycles (warm up and cool down, if there is a slight stumble leaving a stop, while the motor is cold and the choke is closed, a slight closing of the choke pull off rod may improve the cold engine operation, if the motor seems to run pretty rich while the motor is cold and the choke is closed, a slight opening of the the choke pull off rod can improve the cold motor operation. These adjustments won't make any difference once the motor has warmed up and the choke is no longer in operation. If the motor is warmed up (read that at or very near operating temp) and the choke is still under pressure to close, either the choke spring pressure needs adjusting, or the intake crossover the choke uses to function is plugged up.

Another program note, most chokes do not function well until the outside temp gets below 50 degrees. They were designed to function in colder weather. Gene

Gene laid out the adjustment procedure very well.
follow his instructions, and you should be ok.
you may have to tinker with it a bit, but don't get discouraged.

Good morning B300,

I had a feeling you would be back sooner rather than later. If there's anything working on these cars teaches you is not to celebrate prematurely!

There are several reasons you are getting some conflicting answers - One is that there are many different nuances for these procedures for the different vehicles that are out there and there is an element of trial and error necessary to dial in your ideal settings. Also, the factory settings may be designed to meet emissions requirements of the day and not ideal for running without emissions equipment. (early efforts at meeting emissions standards were disastrous and resulted in many owners disconnecting them immediately)

Hopefully, you have already completed the carburetor adjustments that are outlined in your carburetor rebuild kit. If you are a visual learner as I am, I have attached a PDF of the instructions included with the Hygrade kit. I have underlined the specs for my carb and you can disregard those - yours may be different. You can use drill bits as described by Gene, or use the included ruler but you will need to make sure to multiply or divide the spec appropriately, since the ruler is denoted in 1/32 increments.

In addition to the adjustments described in the rebuild kit, you'll need to adjust the idle mixture screws, the curb idle (the idle when hot), the fast idle (the idle at startup), and the timing.

Prior to placing the carb on the car, set the curb idle screw such that a thin sliver of the idle transfer slot is visible. This is just a starting point and will be adjusted later.

Timing:
I recommend you first assess the accuracy of your harmonic balancer. The video linked below describes this process and why it's important. Over time the dampener can rotate such that the timing marks are no longer accurate. Uncle Tony shows you how to do this although I know in that B300 it will be a little challenging due to the positioning of the engine in that doghouse!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBJOdiwjuQ0

Once you've done this, I set the timing when warm with your timing light.

Idle Mixture:
Bottom out the idle mixture screws (gently) then back out 1.5 turns. (also a starting point)

Once the car is running and warm, set the idle mixture screw such that manifold vacuum is maximized. You will need a vacuum gauge of course.

Now once you have set the mixture, put the car in gear and press the brakes. Set the idle such that the car can maintain a comfortable and stable idle. (Some trial and error) Note that this will be the curb idle!



Many guys do things differently according to their inclination and experience, I hope this is helpful. (I'm open to critique as well from any of the old crusty dogs up here)

Excellent description, I recall the OP stated that they replaced the choke pull off which couldn't hold a vacuum. Failures and maladjustments of these little things caused so much havoc back in their day!

Hi everyone! Thanks for all your replies! Just wanna say Merry Christmas and when I get back home I'll continue with each of your suggestions and instructions. Have a good one and be safe!

Btw I fixed the air cleaner stud, here's a pic of what I did...

B300 -
Hope you're having a great vacation! Your carb stud is still upside down but I guess I'll have to live with knowing that somewhere in the vast expanse of the Arizona desert, there's a carb stud installed upside down..

I came across the specs table for the Holley carbs on the '78. Yours may be a little different but this is a good starting point. See attached:

Thanks you too,
I actually ended up getting sick but not too bad... I guess I was due.

As for the stud I mentioned earlier that it can't be installed the right way on my carburetor. The stud probably belongs to another carb. The end with the lip is too short and doesn't reach the threads, that's why I put a sleeve on it...

Thanks for that specs sheet!
I'm really looking forward to getting back home to finish the tuning, I'm a bit worried that some mice will have made a home in my engine bay by the time I do...
That's a whole other issue I'll need to deal with. It's a constant battle with rodents where I live...

Hi everyone! Hope you all had a safe and happy holiday season.
I'm back home and luckily no mice made a home of my engine bay like they previously did when my transmission went out last year!

So anyway, I've done my best trying to understand and match all the different instructions for tuning the carb and I think I have it dialed in!
As for my understanding of the choke plate adjustment, that needs to be done cold and on the very highest step of the cam or detached from it right?
As for the fast idle adjustment and curb idle adjustments those must be done under operating temp. The instructions are to adjust the fast idle with the screw on the second step to the specified 1600rpm for my vehicle and once it's warm and the cam is cleared, the curb idle is set to 750rpm...
I've adjusted and readjusted the idle mixture screws pretty well I think. That process is to seat them and back them out about 2 full turns for reference and then one at a time close them to where it almost wants to stall then back out to find the highest rpm and then a 1/4 turn in or out for optimization, repeat on the other side...
It's running the best it ever has but I'm sure I'll be able make a few tweaks here and there as time passes...

I wonder if having the check weight and smaller jets will help conserve some fuel? I'm still hopeful even if it is just 1mpg...

So I think we're done here with the carb and adjustments.

Thanks again for all your expertise and knowledge!!!!

My near future plans are to do the brakes(whatever that entails) and idk what else...
I already rebuilt the tranny, the carb, the engine's pretty solid so I'm hoping nothing else will need to be done for a while.
That's it for now I guess, we'll see!

Just a heads up!

I have a Ram Van 250 and not sure what year it is, I have the slip somewhere but if I recall correctly it's a 1989...
Well this thing is a mess! No seats, and a major varmint nest in the engine bay so it's safe to say most of the wires are chewed out!
IDK what condition it was in, if it was running or what other than it was being used to house a dog/dogs before I got it. The inside is a mess of dog and mouse/rat feces!
I'm not really sure what to do with it... There's so much rodent filth in it I don't think I'll be able to get the feces out completely...
As of now it's just a parts van for my 79'. It appears that I'll be able to use many parts off it!
I'd like to save the motor and tranny so I might just pull those and Idk what...
Since gas is so expensive I was almost thinking to put that motor in my 79' not sure, depends how difficult that would be.
If possible I would like to take the Air conditioning unit out and put it in my 79'...
If I pull the motor and trans which vehicles are compatible to accept that setup?
It's a 5.2liter with a 4speed Auto A518 transmission...

Once I decide to go through with this I'll open up another thread...

Changing motors on a B van is not fun, and I have changed a lot of motors! I'd really have to need that motor and really like the van to go through that much effort.

The motor comes out the front, so the grille, the radiator, the top part of the radiator support, all the stuff bolted onto the motor, the intake manifold, the exhaust, the motor mounts, and the trans needs to be disconnected from the motor. The motor barely fits through the hole it has to come through, and it will have to move forward at least 6' to clear everything on the van. The motor hoist can't be much higher then the top of the valve covers as its lifting the motor up, for the motor to fit through the hole it has to come through. And you get to do that 2x because you need to pull the motor from the other van. Putting the next motor back is as challenging as taking the old one out, maybe even a bit more challenging.

Then, that 89 should be the 1st year of electronic fuel injected, lots of stuff to change over to a carb setup, or lots more stuff to change over to fuel injection. Either way, messing with the wiring will be necessary. Some stuff won't change over very easily (going either way). That 1st couple years of the electronic fuel injection had some issues. Gene

the differences between the 1989 and the 1979 van almost makes it unfeasible to try to make the ac fit.
if it were mine, i would look at one of those universal, under dash kits that are everywhere.
i realize the dog box will be in the road, so some creative duct work would be needed, unless you get a direct fit kit.
without having the vans in front of me, or pictures of the dash setups and many other things, i can't really offer much advice on the ac swap.
if the 89 van transmission is the hydraulic controlled A518, i would seriously consider swapping that transmission into your 79 van. that shouldn't be too difficult a job to do.

I think 97 was the 1st year for the electronic controlled transmission, an 89 should be the hydraulic controlled 518. It may gain him a couple mpg, but then he would be giving up his rebuilt 727.

As for the ac/ it looks pretty similar for those two years, I'll take some pics and post em later...

So you guys think I can swap the tranny??? On one hand I'd be losing my freshly rebuilt 727 but also wouldn't mind rebuilding the 518 and swapping it if it'll give me better mpg's.
What exactly would I have to do? Will it bolt directly to the flexplate or will I need an adapter??

i forgot you already have a fresh 727. and as Gene said, you "may" only gain a couple of mpg, so one needs to look at the "pay back costs" to see if this is worth the effort.
however, if one wants to learn, is able to fabricate, and just wants a project, then this swap may be something worthwhile.
the quick explanation, it will bolt up, you need to shorten your driveshaft, the transmission mount needs modified, the shifter linkage may/may not need modified, and using the hydraulic unit allows a couple of ways to activate the OD and the lockup converter.
of course it's a little more involved than that, but all in all, is a relatively easy conversion to do.
you may, or may not need to add a "hump" of some kind behind the dog box to allow the bulky OD unit to sit at the same output shaft height as the original 727.

Yeah, I probably won't go through with a tranny swap... I have way too many projects right now and increased mpg's sounds good but at what cost? I don't even know the condition of the other transmission... I just don't want that van to go to waste... I'll probably try and get it running the way it is and just use it around the ranch...

Ok, I need to check something before I take my van for a drive... When I did my transmission I didn't mark the driveshaft so I'm not sure if I installed it the right way. Does it matter? What's the worst that can happen?
Those who have been here from the start of this thread may remember that the driveshaft fell off at the differential end and I reattached but I haven't been on a drive since this all started and the short test drives on my property weren't enough to tell if there's a wobble because my roads are bumpy dirt roads... So if there's a noticable vibration do I just remove it and turn it 180° then reinstall it? It's a 50/50 shot I guess...
I saw something on youtube about putting hose clamps on it and adjusting it that way...

If the drive shaft fell out, I would be concerned that it is not bent. Doesn't take much of a dent in a driveshaft to mess it up bad. If there are no dents and the drive shaft is still balanced, which way the driveshaft is connected to the rear axle shouldn't matter. On the rare occasions it does, simply turning the driveshaft 180 degrees may correct the out of balance. I wouldn't expect much help with turning the shaft 180 degrees, but it might help.

You should be able to jack up the rear end on a level surface and get both wheels off the ground with jack stands under the rear axle. Its important the weight of the van is on the axle, and the axle is on the jack stands, and the tires clear the ground by a couple of inches. Start the van and put it in gear. At an idle, while in gear (a helper would be great but it can be done alone), look to be sure the driveshaft is spinning true and not wobbling at the center or either end. If its wobbling, it needs to be rebalanced, or the U joints replaced at the least, but the drive shaft probably needs to be replaced because I suspect its bent. You can not straighten a bent driveshaft. When you have completed the test, shut the van off in gear and let it coast to a stop, then put it in park after the tires have stopped spinning and you are ready to set the van back on its wheels.

If it spins OK at an idle, you can bring it up slowly to about 45 mph, anything out of balance should show up, you will feel the vibration up through the seat and the van. If the vibration gets real bad at any point, stop the test. Be aware that an out of balance vibration could be the tires and wheels, or the driveshaft. By theory, you should be able to bring the speed all the way up to the driving speed you drive, but I simply don't trust jack stands that much, should the stands fail, and the tires hit the ground, the van will take off at whatever speed the speedometer says its going. Not a pretty picture.

Obviously, a bad vibration needs to be corrected before you drive it, but a very minor vibration may be simple tire balance and can be corrected when you have time. I'd start with the tires before I'd try anything with the driveshaft balance. Also be aware that a vibration you feel with the van on jack stands may or may not show up when driving, and sometimes a vibration while driving won't show up with the wheels off the ground. Tire balance or tire problems can often show up like that. Usually a driveshaft balance shows up consistently. Gene

what caused the driveshaft to fall off ? broken u-joint ? broken cap retainer strap or bolt ?

When I installed the driveshaft I forgot to put the clips on the caps that get bolted onto the differential... It was a really stupid and dangerous mistake.
It came apart on the freeway going 80mph but didn't fall out completely. It dragged on the smooth asphalt for a couple hundred feet.
Both caps were lost and the straps were chewed up...
I have a new ujoint and straps on the way.

It didn't fall out completely, it just detached from the differential and dragged on smooth asphalt for a couple hundred feet. There's very little damage, I only lost two caps on the ujoint and chewed up the straps... I have straps on the way and already have a new ujoint...

After I rebuilt the transmission and installed the driveshaft I wasn't really sure if it was on the right way with the weight that's on it... I never really noticed a vibration after the install but because I forgot to put the clips on the caps the ujoint came apart from the differential I didn't really have time to figure out if the balance was off with the driveshaft...

I'll try putting the rear on jacks, I have 6 ton jacks and I have lot's of property incase it runs from me!
I haven't balanced the tires but they are used tires on brand new rims...
Thanks Gene, I'll perform the test you outlined.

I said I'd be back with pics of the a/c units and here I am...
They look pretty close if not, the same...
I forgot to take pics of the compressor but they're pretty much the same... I'll post pics of that later...

Well, looks the same that's why I was asking about it... It unfortunately looks like whoever had the vehicle in the past messed with the HVAC system... I'd be willing to try and swap it either way. I have one of those cheap a/c system pump kits... I also have a flush kit... assuming all hoses are good, the compressor works and it's complete then this might be compatible!
I'm not getting started on it yet so let's put a pin in this...

Right now I just need to replace the ujoint and straps in my driveshaft before anything else...

interesting ! they do appear to be quite close appearance wise.
like i always say : "the older i get, the DUMBER i really am !"
how do the dashes compare between the two ? or rather i should say the controls ?
are they vacuum or electric, or a combination of both ?
you are "learnin'" me stuff. thank you !

Glad I can be of service!
Here's some more pictures fer ya! Oh! I also found the title! It's a 94'!
It's looking like both these vans have similar components! The question is how much damage have the mice done???
There's a massive nest behind the a/c compressor on top of the engine! You can kinda see it in the picture...
I'm not so much worried about running into mice either but rather into snakes! The rattling kind! I live in Northern Arizona...

My 79' uses v-belts and the "parts van" has a serpentine belt... They're mounted on the same spot. I'm assuming the pulley can be switched out?

Quick question carb related...

The divorce choke I have has a wire that goes to a small "ballast resistor"(not sure what it's called actually) but what else is supposed to be connected to the it??? There use to be a bunch of wires that were for smog components that were removed...
That choke wire is supposed to be fed 12 volts so am I to connect a
"Hot" wire directly from the battery??.

That is called a temperature compensating resistor and it is used to regulate the speed in which the choke opens, quicker when it is hot out, slower when it is colder out. Your choke should be wired to that and the other end should only be hot when the engine is running, it goes from the key switch thru the oil pressure sender, which will send juice to that resistor when you have oil pressure. At least that is how it worked on my 87 Diplomat.

As for the serpentine vs v belt setup, the AC compressor has that as part of the clutch assembly, not sure if you can swap them about or not.

So the oil pressure sender I have has 3 connectors... There's a white wire coming out of the middle connector and according to the Haynes manuals wiring diagram it connects to the oil light on the instrument panel. When I turn the ignition ON that wire is hot and when OFF it's cold... I would assume that I'd need a wire coming from one of those other connectors on the oil pressure switch to the choke resistor?
There's one drawback if that's the case! The other two connectors on the pressure switch are cold and stay cold when the ignition is ON...

On your AC set up, my 1st thought was 76-94 has a lot of years between. The design might be the same, but the odds are there were probably running changes that occurred between those years. I'm sure suppliers were changed, and parts may or may not swap between the two units, but the two units may be able to be swapped as complete units. Maybe comparing the exchange of things like heater cores, AC evaporators, or blower motors might give you an idea of a year range those parts might fit as replacement parts, but sometimes those parts are adapted to fit multiple years too. It was not unheard of for Dodge to come up with a new design mid year, then engineer the new part to be a direct replacement for the old design. When they installed the last unit of old design part on the assembly line, the next vehicle in line, and every one after it, got the new designed unit installed as the line kept moving.

The 2nd thought was, Dodge reused a lot of stuff if something worked well. The only time they changed some stuff was when a better design came along, or something was no longer available for the old unit, or the government required something to be changed.

As an example, I believe the Torsion bars on my 91 Dakota 4x4 frame use the same torsion bars (only with a higher weight capacity) as are used on a 2009 Durango. The only way I am going to know for sure is to have one of both sitting on my bench to measure.

I believe your AC unit will fall under the same situation, the only way your going to know for sure is to take both units apart and compare them to each other, or stumble across someone that has already done that. You need to clean out both AC units anyway, right? Make a lot of noise around it, then ten minutes later make a lot of noise again, maybe those rattlers will get the message and leave? Be careful. Gene

That's the last line in the chain of power to the choke assist heater. It allows power to the choke assist only when the engine has oil pressure.

So once there's enough pressure one of the other connectors will have power? Right now the only power at the oil pressure sending unit is coming in from the white wire from the dash...
If the other two connectors don't have power at any time does that mean the sending unit is bad?
I don't remember what else was connected to the oil sending unit, I removed a bunch of rat chewed wires that were there for the smog components that I removed...

It's been a VERY long time, mebbe 35 years since I messed with it. I think there's switched power coming into the unit, power to the choke assist and metered power based on oil pressure to the gauge. Somebody with fresher memories will be around to correct me. Three wires is all I recall.

You are correct, one terminal is the signal to the oil light. With the key on but the engine off it should ground and show the light as lit. Of the remaining two terminals, one should be hooked to switched 12v. The remaining terminal goes to the compensating resistor mentioned above and is only hot with good oil pressure. This is to prevent the choke from heating up with the key on but engine off.

it's amazing how close the dash controls look between the two years.
if i'm thinking correctly [HA ! ] i believe those are vacuum operated.
in fact, that control [or one almost identical] was used on 74-78 C bodies. i scrapped a few of those many moons ago.

Ok so one of the remaining two connecters gets a "switched" 12v wire and the other to the choke resistor...
What's a "switched" 12v?? Is that just a hot wire that's only hot when the ignition is on?

I started to take stuff apart in the 94' and man oh man it's a mess!! Rats/mice chewed through the vacuum lines!!! The controls themselves are fine just dirty...
Looks like I'll be able to salvage the fan control cable also!
The hvac controls are exactly the same! The newer one has a little rectangular "box" with two vacuum line connections which I'm guessing is for A/C??? Either way I don't have those two perticular lines in my 74'...

Correct, switched mean it only has power when the ignition switch is on.

Well, I'm thinking of starting a couple new threads. This thread is just too cluttered with different topics now...
I'm done messing with the heat and fan controls for now. I think the vacuum controls work because I can hear things moving around in the dash when I press the buttons and also air comes out of different vents. For now the fresh air and hot air works, the fan speed controls don't really work and is stuck on max, I think... That's going to have to be a whole new thread!

I'll also try and sort out the wiring and my understanding of it some time soon... I recon the brakes will have to be done soon as well!
I'm thinking of swapping the master cylinder from the 94'...
The 94' also has nice brake and stearing lines I'll be snagging...
There'll be plenty to work on so until then, thanks and be safe!
Cya all soon!

Ok, back again about the wiring from the oil pressure switch to the resistor for the choke...
I brought a couple picture for reference...

I wired it according to how it originally was, a 'switched' wire to the pressure switch and from there a separate one to the resistor...
There's power going to pressure switch but none going to the resistor...

Is the pressure switch bad? When's it suppose to send power to the resistor?

Was the motor running and did it have oil pressure? If it was not running, or was running and did not have oil pressure, the switch would not provide the voltage through it. The switch would be working correctly.

However, if the motor was running and did have oil pressure, the switch is defective.

The motor was running at operating temperature...
Fired er' up, let it get up to temp. and drove around the property for a couple minutes... No power out...
It's actually a fairly new pressure switch that I bought a couple years ago, now I'm not sure if it ever worked!
Well anyway, thanks poorboy!

I forgot to ask, how would I know if there isn't any oil pressure anyway. It's running great now so am I to assume if the pressure was low or not there the motor would run rough or not at all?? How's that work?

oil pressure is a strange thing. Most people have the understanding that motors need a certain level of oil pressure to keep running, and to a point, that is correct, but, The original motors from years ago ran without a pressurized oiling system. In the old days, motor lubrication was done mostly by splash. There was oil in the pan, and the crankshaft would make contact with it (or swing close enough to force some of the oil in the pan out of the pan), and kick the oil up into the motor to lubricate the high wear contact points. That system was used pretty effectively up through the 50s in some motors, but as the power levels increased, it was discovered that pumping the oil through the motor was more efficient and the pressurized system became the normal. These days, many of the small one cylinder motors (like your lawn mower or weed eater) still use the splash system of motor lubrication, but nearly every multiply cylinder motor uses the pressurized system. Generally speaking, a pressurized system requires a minimum amount of pressure to keep the motor operating because most high wear contact areas are no longer open enough to get much oil splash, and most crankshafts no longer make contact with the oil in the pan (it takes away HP). When the pressurized motor does not maintain enough oil pressure, the high wear areas don't receive enough oil to properly lubricate the critical parts and the contact surfaces can wear extremely fast. as one might imagine, those wore out high contact parts begin to fail and those failing parts stop the motor from running, either by a slow grinding halt, or a fast explosion. The time frame for that to happen largely depends on the original clearances the motor was built to. The more modern motors are built to a tighter tolerance and the failure often happens sooner then the older looser tolerance motors. Also, the minimum oil pressure needed varies between the manufacturers, and even between specific motors within the manufacturers.

Standard operating procedure for me was to always run a mechanical oil pressure gauge on any motor I had any question concerning oil pressure. The old Mopar motors will run a long time on pretty low oil pressure, I've seen them run for years with less then 5psi at an idle when at normal operating temp but that low oil pressure usually jumps up as the rpm increases. Chrysler considered 10 psi per 1,000 rpm to be normal and adequate for performance motors.

The down side of all this is that some of the electric sensors won't function well with low oil pressure, many won't function well below 10 psi. If the motor doesn't have enough oil pressure to make the sending unit happy, it won't function. You could pull the power wire from any ignition powered wire (on or off with the ignition switch) for your choke rather then off the oil pressure switch, as long as the choke wire runs through the little procyclin terminal thing before it is connected to the choke spring. Gene

Thanks for explaining that...
I bought another one, hopefully it works. If it doesn't is there a way to check it? If the switch is good and still not sending power then it'll be because there's not enough pressure. How will I go about testing the oil pressure? Do I just take the switch out and hook up a pressure tester there?

Just another thought, does your van have a gauge for the oil pressure, or does it just have an oil light? The sending unit for the light is different then the sending unit for the gauge. The light sending unit should just be an on/off switch but the sending unit for the gauge is probably a varied resistance switch. For what you are doing, I would think the sending unit for the light would work better, but not sure how it would work with a gauge, could make it max out.

Yes, install the fittings and tubing for the mechanical oil pressure gauge into the place the sending unit was originally in.

If you want to get fancy, that hole in the block where the sending unit screws into is a 1/8" pipe thread. You can get a short 1/8" pipe nipple (the pipe nipple can be longer or shorter to clear the back of the intake, as needed) with an 1/8" pipe "T" (the pipe "T" can be screwed onto the nipple any way that makes the best clearance) and install both the sending unit, and the mechanical gauge. Use the Teflon tape on all the threaded ends and be sure the pipe and the "T" are tight before installing the sending unit and the fittings for the gauge.

I have an oil light(pictured). I'm just replacing what was already there. I know that it's the three prong unit because the wiring that was there has the three prong connector. I removed all that old stuff because it was getting too hot and burning the wires. There was a period where my van sat for months and became home to rats so they ended up chewing those wires and that messed something up! The good thing is most of those wires were to the old smog stuff...

Now you got me thinking about installing a pressure gauge as a permanent fixture! So I would put a T fitting where the pressure switch currently is and run a metal line up to the dash to a gauge?
I think I'd also like to have a tranny temp. gauge also...
Any suggestions as to what else I should install to keep an eye on??

There's a couple of gauges I'm looking at, one goes up to 100psi and the other goes up to 15psi... What would be appropriate for my application??

Actually, they come in all ranges obviously... What's the max I should expect from this motor??

Update: I just read that it's generally 10psi per 1000rpm... I would think the 100psi gauge would work or is that too high?

I've had some Mopar motors that have carried 60 psi + at idled when cold and could drop to 25psi once warmed up. Those motors cold, at highway rpm, could get above 80 psi until the motor warmed up.

I'm a big fan of mechanical gauges, the factory gauges (nearly all are electrical with non-numbered faces) sort of give you an idea if something is out of the normal, but you really don't know exactly what you really have. To put things in the proper perspective, currently, everything I own is using the factory gauges, but back in my younger days, everything had mechanical gauges. (I have AAA towing these days, working on something along the side of the road isn't going to happen). Back when I had real gauges, I liked oil pressure, water temp, and amp/volts (if I had to eliminate one, the amp/volt gauge would be the one to go). Trans temp is another option given where you live, but you would have to install a sending unit into the trans pan. Those gauges can be mounted at the bottom of the dash, or sort of out of the way, you probably won't be looking at them all the time, they are a reference point if you suspect something is not right, or they are some thing you check occasionally to monitor what is going on. If you are going to peruse the best gas mileage, that vacuum gauge would be a great addition, put it someplace you can see it easily while driving, like on or near the top of the dash.

Gauges can get costly pretty quickly. I would tend to stay away from the cheapest gauges you can find, but you probably don't need the most expensive gauges either. Cheap gauges tend to have a shorter life span and some have inconsistent or inaccurate readings issues. Shaking and vibration are most gauge downfalls, more expensive gauges tend to reduce the effects of vibration, careful mounting can also reduce the vibration the gauge sees. The next most common issue with gauges is damage to the mechanical tubing, careful mounting and tube routing can solve a lot of those issues, the tubing does not like sharp bends, or sharp edges and has to clear moving parts that can catch the tubing. Gene

I didn't realize this before but I just did this check and the oil light doesn't come on in the ON position! I've already ordered a new switch...

I think what happened is when my tranny went out last year I had it parked for months and some rats made a home of the engine bay and they chewed the wires. Before I had realized the damage caused by the rats I turned the ignition on and burnt a bunch of wires and that is when the oil pressure switch got fried!

Some varmint chewed through the upstream and downstream O2 sensors (and two ignition wires) on my wife's Town and Country and shorted the PCM/ECM when I went to move it. Had to finally replace it with a reman $270 PCM/ECM and another $250 for two O2 sensors and a complete set of new ignition wires later fixed, not happy with mice, rats and varmints and soy base insulation. Should make the wire insulation out of RAT POISIN if you ask me Die-O-degradable insulation think I'll patent that

Not to mention they also attract snakes!
I thought I saw some sort of tape that repels critters a while back... It's like electrical tape and you wrap your existing wires in it... I've been setting up regular old rat traps under the hood... It's a never ending battle!

Could there be an issue if I keep driving it without a working a working pressure gauge? I honestly don't know how long it's been broken...

Not if you have oil pressure.
Just get a manual water/ oil set even cheapo sets are fine.
I know I used my fair share of the low cost ones in the 70s and tget worked fine.
If they have the plastic hose line do worry just do not over tighten the nut or run it by where it could get burnt.
I ran a T so both would work as I hate having a dead one in the dash. But that's personal.

I should have pressure, I mean I do have some oil leaks but... I have a cheap oil pressure set I'll be using to check before I head off... I definitely want whatever tool/gauge that'll help me regulate performance even help diagnose an issue in the future... Shoot, a 6ft copper line kit is only $15 and a decent gauge $25...

Well, It looks like I'll have no choice now but to drive my van and find out what the mpg's are looking like! My daily driver finally broke down on me!! Anyone know a good forum I can go to for help with my 2000 S10???

I'm not sure if I should bring it up here or not...
I have no doubt all of you that have helped me thus far have knowledge that exceeds that of my B300!

Maybe just a quick little mention...

My s10's not starting... Cranks but no fire, starts and runs after spraying carb cleaner in intake... I unhooked the hose from the fuel filter and cranked it and just a tiny spurt comes out. There's an obvious fuel delivery issue. Even though the pump makes noise when key is ON and the fuel is barely spurting through the line, could it be that the pump has failed and just doesn't have enough force to pump the fuel???
Please and thank you everyone.

GM used to use a rubber connector between the pump and fuel line inside the tank that would split. Pump runs, no gas comes out.

One of my SIL's friends up Abilene way had a similar issue with his truck.

I took the cap off the tank, put my ear there and had him turn the key on.

Told him he was out of gas, he swore up and down he wasn't. Had him put 5 gallons in and it fired right up. He had a habit of not putting much gas in the truck, not sure why.

If you can do the same you can hear the pump load down when it starts pumping gas.

As far back as my use goes of them is mid 70s. And in.that time only ones i have seen the plastic lines fail on on any car was due to someone who tightened the crap out of the nut on the Ferrell. Or it was melted by exhaust.
It would not worry me to use the plastic if that is what it came with in the box.
I think most do not understand not to put one on right.
Even house plumbing guys think they should crank down on the nut.
Same guys proberly over tighten lug nuts, bolts and nuts too.

Chances are, I may not need a new pump? If what you mentioned is the case then all I have to do is take the pump out of the tank and replace that rubber connector.

I hope that's the case because pumps for the S10 are either really cheap($35) or full price($220)! No middle ground with the pumps, it's either cheap or expensive...

I just found this video for reference, https://youtu.be/BHMH8ZFwiZU you can just forward to the part the pumps running and fuel is coming out... If that's the amount and flow of fuel that should be flowing then my fuel pump is definitely bad, I'm almost certain of it but if someone can just check out the video and confirm that's about the type of flow I should be seeing coming out of my lines right before the filter then I think it'll put this dilemma to rest...

that looks pretty close to how a good pump should act.
most pumps are supposed to pump "x" quarts or gallons into a container in "yz" minutes.
i'm not sure what yours is supposed to pump, but a nice, steady stream like shown in the video would be close, in my opinion.

In that case it's bad... I've got little teaspoon size spurts coming out, no stream, not even close...
Even though it's still squirting out a little fuel I guess it's not enough to move fuel through the system...
Anyone have experience using one of the cheap $40 pumps from eBay?

If the pump was going out then why wouldn't it have given me issues while I drove?? I only had issues with it starting a couple of times in the past year and then all of a sudden it won't start...

Are you sure someone didn't borrow your gas? With the current price of gas, that becomes a real possibility. If there is not enough gas in the tank to cover the pickup, the pump can't pump it.

Electric fuel pumps tend to just die, most don't give any warning. Constantly running the vehicle low on fuel tends to hurry the failure a bit, as will any dirt or grit in the gas. Most electric pumps also have a "filter sock" (most are plastic these days) on the inlet side of the pump, that could be plugged up, or bad as well, a plugged, or partially plugged 'filter sock" will restrict or stop the fuel from getting into the pump. You might want to be sure the fuel lines from the tank are good as well. Don't over look the easy stuff. Gene

There's nobody here where I live that'll steal anything from me, that's one of the reasons I'm out here!

I think I found the problem anyway... You can see all the electrical contacts on the pump are burnt... I want to double check the pump before I discard it...

See!

That is not the pump. That's the tanks sending unit. Looks like someone fed 12 volts to it.

yep. sending unit toasted.

Couldn't that start a fire? Most likely an explosion?
Is it pretty common for them to burn out like that?
Let's see how long this $30 pump I bought on eBay lasts me...

i'm not saying it couldn't go BOOM, but i have seen many sending units as well as pumps, with "toasty" marks on them worse than that.
i can't remember of hearing about a burnt up pump or sending unit causing an explosion.
anyone here ever hear of something like this causing a fire or explosion ?

Ok, now back to the van....
Finally drove it! I went on a "quick trip to the store" which is about 90miles round trip... Everything went great, won't be sure about the gas usage till after a few drives. I had a brief moment on the way home where I thought I was losing power but that could've been the wind... I also had a moment where there was a 'clunk' shifting into drive... I don't remember if the rpms were up when I shifted, it was on the side of the freeway and in the midst of the whole loosing power fiasco... Made it home though and there doesn't seem to be any issues. I'm going to do a bunch of checks on it today...

The main reason for this post is that I finally got my new oil pressure switch but it's the wrong one. I need the one with the smaller diameter threaded end...
The one's that I've seen were hard to find and not specific to my make/model but they look like what I need...
Now, if I can just find out what psi the switch is suppose to operate at... anyone know what that is?

I just hooked up the pressure gauge and it's reading 66 psi at 1200 rpm... Isn't the rule of thumb 10psi per 1000rpm? Maybe my gauge is wrong?

was that reading at a hot or cold engine temperature ?
if cold, it will go down when warmed up.
if that reading was when warmed up, what did it go to when, at say, 2500, 3500, 4000 rpm ?
if your bypass valve is stuck closed, you would have blown off the oil filter long ago.
you need to temporarily hook up the mechanical gauge where you can see it from cold start up to warmed up going down the road, then hot idle.
the gauge you have now is most likely ok.
you can do this now while you are waiting for the correct [1/8" NPT ?] sending unit.

That was a cold temp reading...
I ordered another oil pressure gauge/tool because the one I'm using goes up to 500psi... I want one that'll read a little more accurately so I'm getting the one that goes up to 150psi... The other gauge is probably fine, I just think the new gauge will be more appropriate...
I still haven't ordered the new pressure switch, I'm still trying to find the correct one! Idk if it's 1/8th but that isn't so much the issue now as finding the one with correct psi rating... The one I have say 12-3psi I believe but it could be the wrong one, ordered that long ago and not sure if it's correct. It was new, had the 3 blades and it fit... I'm pretty sure I saw the oil light function at some point but...

Went on another 90 miles drive to the store! No issues at all! I readjusted the air/fuel and also the timing after last time, it was a little off. I still have no idea the mpg's, that'll take a while to figure out.

Well, until I get the pressure switch figured out I have to inspect the bearings/brakes and whatever else is important I haven't gotten around to yet...

I also got my new $30 fuel pump for my S10... Hopefully it'll last a while! Looks decent for $30!

I'll keep y'all updated! Thanks Bob!

I'm having trouble finding any information on which pressure switch I need for my van...
I've seen a few on eBay but there's a wide variety of switches that look the same and they don't detail the pressure range of the unit. Are they all fairly similar or are they too different for me to just randomly pick one??
I'll just provide some links to the switches I'm looking at...


https://www.ebay.com/itm/OIL-LIGHT-...46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nos-Standa...46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

So these are the two that appear to fit my motor... Any difference between the two? Will either of these work on my engine???

Ebay is horrible for application purposes.

It's a switch, this is what you need

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=932295&cc=1075283&pt=4588&jsn=449

If you need the connector/plug

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2677436&cc=1075283&pt=2603&jsn=478

if i were to choose one, the Standard brand would be the one i would pick.
the first one has an M10x1 thread. that is metric, and why it is listed in the description.
do you have a link for your van ? "Dodge B300 van ??? engine oil pressure switch - enter [i forget the year of your van and engine size. 360/5.9 ?]
did you post a picture of your original switch ?
i have a couple of Standard Products master catalogs. if you refresh my mind with the year and engine size, i'll look up what the replacement sender should be.

that rock auto link sure looks like what is needed.

I totally forgot about RockAuto! The main reason I don't usually use them is because there's always a shipping cost but in all fairness their prices are very cheap!
Once again and certainly not the last time, thanks!

I have the original connector/plug but with the old burnt up wiring... If I can find a way to dig them out I could reuse it!

Either way thanks.

I know you saw the link Sniper posted so, part found and no need to search but either way you got it right, 79' B300 360 5.9 2bbl... once again, I appreciate it!

Surprise! I'm back!
This is going to be a quick one so I didn't want to open a new thread...
I'm reluctant on this one because I think I already know the answer...
There's gurgling/boiling noise coming from the exhaust after the motor has been shut off! There was also some liquid which I can safely assume is coolant 'splattering' out of the exhaust... There's some crackling/popping noise coming out the exhaust at idle but up front the engine sounds smooth and It drives fine...

Blown head gasket???

FYI I just got done sealing up the exhaust system, could the back pressure difference been enough to blow out an already deteriorating seal?

Btw, the oil is clean...

Condensation and fuel byproducts. Quit worrying.

condensation & junk. i agree with Nitrousn.
as to backpressure blowing a seal, what seal ?
i'm easy to confuse son, so unless someone pounded a potato into your tail pipe, i wouldn't worry about backpressure.

As long as you are not loosing coolant (check it cold), I wouldn't worry about it. How much have you driven the van since the motor work was done?

If you are loosing some coolant, the 1st thing I would check would be to be sure all the hose clamp are tight and you don't have a bad/defective hose.

I guess I mean whatever is keeping the fluid from coming through into the combustion chamber but that wouldn't make sense since it would be apparent in the oil... Idk, every now and then I'll say things that don't make sense...

I only brought it up because I've heard of changes in pressure due to removal of the cat. messing with the engine performance... Since my exhaust had a bunch of pinholes and I had just repaired it all I thought maybe there was something there? I'm always trying to connect dots...

Turns out Nitrousn was right...
I hadn't filled up the tank in over a year and I just got a bunch of gas so...

I've been losing coolant for years but that's because I was always struggling with this one bolt on the head. One of the bolts goes through into the water jacket(I think that's what it's called) had a bolt broken in it and I took it to a mechanic to extract. This was years ago when I first got the van. So the mechanic extracted the bolt but didn't leave much thread left and coolant was always leaking out there and onto the exhaust so there always always this sweet smell and coolant leaking. I tried to seal it a bunch of times with rtv#2 with no success until I found out I can use plumbers tape to seal it and it's been holding since!
The other leak I had was at the thermostat housing because the gaskets always split there so that's one of the things I just fixed. I used a gasket and the grey gasket maker(Great stuff) this time and the gasket still split but the sealer seams to be holding so no more leaks currently!

So now that everything is sealed up I hopefully won't be smelling anymore coolant and I'll be able to monitor the fluid level...

Now, since I'm here I should mention that the tranny has had some fluid coming out from the inspection cover... I noticed a little drip hanging but not enough to fall to the ground. A few days ago I noticed it progressively got worse and was dripping slowly onto the exhaust and ground, it was maybe like a drop every 30 seconds...
Well, I just went out for a quick drive on my land and it's not dripping anymore!
Could me backing up really fast have caused some fluid to move forward and out?
It's driving and shifting fine, no weird noises that I can tell...
I'm hoping this is just another false alarm...

I just went on another drive around the block and it's definitely leaking...
It's just hanging there... Not really dripping... I'll wipe it and it'll stay clean until the next drive... The other day it was dripping about every 30 seconds...
The level is a little on the high side...


Edit/update: I went on another drive and the drip seams really inconsistent and I checked the level HOT and it's a little over the Full mark. Since there doesn't seem to be any mechanical issues and there's no irregular noises I will assume it just has too much fluid! It's weird because when I finished rebuilding the trans I added the exact amount required and when I checked it hot it was below the full mark... Not sure what happened, maybe I didn't push the stick down enough the first times...
The stick kinda snags at the end and the top part at the handle also fits weird...
I will also add that about one out of four times that I checked the dipstick there seamed to be some small bubbles in it and that was today but like I said, no issues that I've noticed.
Anyway, I'll take a little fluid out and hope that's all it was.

Well, if anyone's been paying attention, the last post I mentioned a leak and the fluid level was a little high...
I unscrewed the hydraulic line to drain a little fluid and got the level down to between E and F, exactly where it's suppose to be...
Ok well today I went to do laundry and had to drive about 20 miles round trip. Nothing seemed out of wack but it dawned on me that I forgot to hook up the rod to the control lever on the tranny!!!!
I stopped and hooked it up and I noticed oil leaking from the pan gasket not the bell housing... Just a little oil though...
I had to stop and put it in park a couple of times on the way home after this and after shifting into Drive from Park it would shift fine but it takes a second for the power to transfer to the tires and when it does it thuds! This thudding has happened a handful of times, ...
I rechecked the fluid level after this drive and now the level is way above the Full mark, like almost half an inch!!! Why? I filled the tranny with the specified 8 quarts when I rebuilt it, I checked and adjusted the fluid more than once at operating temp so...
Is the proper operating temp after a freeway drive because these different temps are obviously affecting the fluid level and I'm getting tired of the level being off every time I check it when I've already adjusted it!!!
Maybe I do have too much fluid and it's getting air bubbles sometimes and that's what's causing the delay in power transfer to the wheels?
This is just really frustrating after rebuilding it twice, triple and quadruple checking everything and then this! I also hope driving it without the control lever hooked up didn't cause serious damage!

You all know I appreciate the help! Thank you in advance...

Assuming you did fill it correctly, the only other source of fluid that would raise the level you are seeing would be coolant from the radiator leaking into the trans fluid cooler. But that usually looks like foamy strawberry milk. Odds are you;d also see red flaoting atop the coolant if you check it cold.

You have to check the AFT with the van on a level surface, after it has warmed up (its suppose to be up to operating temp), and the trans fluid has to be checked with the trans in neutral. Anything else gives you a false reading.

Its not unusual for the torque converter to drain down after setting for a while (I've seen them start to drain down in a few hours) on a Mopar. Add to that, the pump inside the trans does not pump the fluid while the trans is in park. That means that if the converter has drained down some, and you check it in park, its going to read over full.

I would put more money on a converter drain down and improper fluid level checking then any other cause. Coolant leaking into the trans caused be a radiator cooler issue is pretty rare, but if that is it, the trans is going to fail quickly, and probably already needs to be rebuilt! Water from the cooling system will break down the glue that holds the clutch material to the steel. Been there, done that, but in my case the water didn't come from the trans cooler. The trans was toast in less then 1,000 miles, and the fluid looked like a strawberry milk shake the 1st time.

I've owned a lot of Mopars over the years, for me, and everyone in my household, when ever we start one of our vehicles (we only have Mopars here) that has been sitting more then a couple hours, we put the trans in neutral for at least 30 seconds before we put it in drive or reverse. That gives the pump in the trans time to refill the converter. If you start it up, and immediately put it in drive (or reverse) and go, you may not have enough fluid in the converter for the trans to function instantly and you get a delayed action from the trans. If you have your foot into the gas pedal, it makes it worse. That eventually causes premature wear on the trans clutch pack and bands.

Conclusion: When ever you start your van, put the trans in neutral for the count of 30, before you put it in either drive or reverse. When you check the fluid, you make sure the van is sitting level, start it and do the neutral thing, then shift it into drive, then into reverse at least a couple of times, then shift it into neutral, pull the trans dipstick and wipe it off, then reinsert the dipstick (being sure its all the way down) then check the fluid. The fluid probably isn't up to operating temp, but at least it should read close. Only add fluid if the level is at or below the add line. Over filling is as bad as underfilling. If it reads over full, I suggest you take it for a ride and recheck it. If its way over full, you will need to drain some off. Drain it off by slightly loosening one of the cooler lines. Have a container ready, it will drain off pretty fast. Be sure you don't drain too much off.

On the fluid drip, its not uncommon for the seals around the shift lever to leak a bit. That leak will run down the trans case to the trans pan, and then follow the pan to the lowest point before dripping off. Another common leak is at the bottom of the dipstick tube where it enters the trans. That leak also runs down the trans case and to the trans pan where it will follow to the lowest point before it falls off. Of those two leaks, the dipstick leak is the easiest to fix, the shift seal leak would have to be pretty bad before I'd be jumping to fix it. When the converter drains down, that extra fluid ends up in the trans pan, and brings the fluid level above both of these seals which causes them to leak. Gene

No, there's no leeks like that, I would've noticed that.
When I rebuilt it for the second time the tc already had a little fluid and I drained it as best I can . The manual says to add 8 litres so I added about 7.7 litres... I've been checking the fluid after warming it up by idling and driving around the block.
I know the hotter it gets the more pressure is created therefore raising the fluid level so now I'm assuming the proper way is when it's "freeway hot"... I can't think of doing anything else other than drain it a little more...

[quote=poorboy]You have to check the AFT with the van on a level surface, after it has warmed up (its suppose to be up to operating temp), and the trans fluid has to be checked with the trans in neutral. Anything else gives you a false reading.

Its not unusual for the torque converter to drain down after setting for a while (I've seen them start to drain down in a few hours) on a Mopar. Add to that, the pump inside the trans does not pump the fluid while the trans is in park. That means that if the converter has drained down some, and you check it in park, its going to read over full.

I would put more money on a converter drain down and improper fluid level checking then any other cause. Coolant leaking into the trans caused be a radiator cooler issue is pretty rare, but if that is it, the trans is going to fail quickly, and probably already needs to be rebuilt! Water from the cooling system will break down the glue that holds the clutch material to the steel. Been there, done that, but in my case the water didn't come from the trans cooler. The trans was toast in less then 1,000 miles, and the fluid looked like a strawberry milk shake the 1st time.

I've owned a lot of Mopars over the years, for me, and everyone in my household, when ever we start one of our vehicles (we only have Mopars here) that has been sitting more then a couple hours, we put the trans in neutral for at least 30 seconds before we put it in drive or reverse. That gives the pump in the trans time to refill the converter. If you start it up, and immediately put it in drive (or reverse) and go, you may not have enough fluid in the converter for the trans to function instantly and you get a delayed action from the trans. If you have your foot into the gas pedal, it makes it worse. That eventually causes premature wear on the trans clutch pack and bands.

Conclusion: When ever you start your van, put the trans in neutral for the count of 30, before you put it in either drive or reverse. When you check the fluid, you make sure the van is sitting level, start it and do the neutral thing, then shift it into drive, then into reverse at least a couple of times, then shift it into neutral, pull the trans dipstick and wipe it off, then reinsert the dipstick (being sure its all the way down) then check the fluid. The fluid probably isn't up to operating temp, but at least it should read close. Only add fluid if the level is at or below the add line. Over filling is as bad as underfilling. If it reads over full, I suggest you take it for a ride and recheck it. If its way over full, you will need to drain some off. Drain it off by slightly loosening one of the cooler lines. Have a container ready, it will drain off pretty fast. Be sure you don't drain too much off. ]

That's exactly how I've been checking the level. I have the manual and I've been checking it exactly how the book instructs. I only check the level when it's at operating temp, in neutral and on level ground... I even brought a level with me and made sure the vehicle is level... I've done everything properly according to the ATSG Techbook...
That's why this has me concerned, I've done everything right! Well, that I'm aware of...

I did notice when I start the van and then throw it into Drive that it takes a few seconds to get going and I figured that it's because it still needed to to fill up with fluid, I was aware of that and was wondering about it. Thanks for the tip on getting that converter filled before going forward at initial start-up. I'll be doing that from now on before I put it into drive.
That's not the delayed reaction I'm referring to though, I may have mentioned that but that's not the issue I had yesterday...
Yes, there is that delay every time I start it... I'm talking about after having driven it for a while and then stopping somewhere, putting it in park and then putting it back into Drive and resuming the drive. That happened once on my first drive and I mentioned it. Yesterday is when it happened again when I came home, I have lot's of property and a front gate so when I get home I have to get out and unlock the gate. When I got back in the van I put it in drive and it shifted fine but then when I pressed the accelerator peddle it took a split second and thudded forward. This is what I'm referring to, the clunk forward after I've been driving for a while not at initial start-up. That's why I mentioned that maybe I do have too much fluid and there was air bubbles built up in the fluid and that maybe that's what created that delay...
Like I said, I've done everything according to the book, triple and quadruple checking everything!

The main leek and reason I'm here was what was coming from the bell housing and that leek is minimal and happens about half the time so I assume it's not from the pump seal... The other leek I mentioned isn't coming from any spots higher than the pan. It seams to have been seeping through the gasket. It's like when my carb gets too much gasoline and it starts to seep through the gaskets, that's what it looks like happened.
So if I have too much fluid wouldn't that account for some fluid leeking from the oil drain every now and then? Also wouldn't it account for air bubbles and a delayed reaction into drive every now and then?
I'll just drain a little more and go on a longer drive to get the temp up, I don't think I'm getting the proper level reading by idling to warm and driving around the block because I've already done that and checking it that way hasn't been very accurate.
I mean how many operating temps for my vehicle is there??? Operating temp after warmup or operating temp after a freeway drive???

The trans needs to at full operating temp , parking brake set on a level surface and the trans in neutral with the engine running , look at both side of the stick when you pull it to check ,sometime one side will be higher than the other , go by the low side.