Oil pan bolt leaks

Many of my oil pan bolts are seeping. The pan seal to the block is dry. I do have double gasket due to use of a windage tray. It seems to be getting worse with age. Is there any way to fix this without pulling the pan and starting over? If the pan needs to come off, is that possible with a B-block in a E-body without lifting the engine? I know the drag link will need to be removed, but will the pan clear the craddle with a stoker crank (3.9")?

Thanks for the thoughts!

I would put some sealant on those bolts

Like Robert says, I'd try some thread sealant first.

I can't speak for E-bodies, but on my Duster, the pan will hang up on a crank counterweight unless I turn the crank to a certain position to clear the front lip of the pan.
I marked the balancer for that position, and can have the pan off in minutes - and it's a 10 quart, so I gotta pull the center link.

We've had good success by letting the engine sit as long as possible for the oil to drain down.
remove 1 bolt at a time.
brake clean the bolt and block threads
Use a small amount of permatex Ultra Black on the bolt threads and if possible the block as well. ( wooden stick Q-tips work well)
Reinstall
Move onto the next bolt until all the leakers are done. Do not overtighten when reinstalling as the gaskets may not like it

been battling that for the last year or so . Bolts will loosen and then weep oil across gasket. Tried permatex gray , red and blue loctite . I was using ARP bolts , never had this before with factory bolts . Also has got the stock cork/rubber gasket . Just refitted factory bolts yesterday with loctite blue . I did find an old moparts link with a guy saying could not get the arp bolts to stay tight . I also have a couple different Felpro gaskets to try - #1808 performance gasket black compressed , #1834 steel core blue non stick (top fuel type )

Tex

PS : the #1808 seems similar to the Milodon gasket

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Hmmm....now I am wondering what the pan bolt length is on my engine. The double gasket and windage tray will certainly reduce the thread engagement in the block which maybe is reducing clamping force?? Maybe the bolts are loosening on my motor as well. Will need to get under the car this weekend.

The very reason I love the Superformance oil pan gaskets - Two gaskets with the windage tray

The material doesn’t compress , Non wicking , I don’t use rtv with these gaskets

And then the reproduction factory OEM oil pan bolt set that you can buy today , the oil pan bolts come with a dry blue thread locker already installed on threads

Perfection

Zero drips or tightening of bolts in years

I would use a flat tap and clean the bolt holes to make sure they will fully tighten and blow them out with air hose. Also make sure the pan rail is flat if some of the bolts were over tightened.

Remember the pair of bolts that go into the rear main seal holder are a few threads shorter than the rest of them. Are you using split washers? Brake or carb clean the holes and bolts, blow them out/off with air and seal with Permatex ultra seal.

I use the Hughes oil pan hold down flange reinforcing plates now days too. They require longer bolts. Not too long as its easy to crack out the ends of the holes into the crankcase.

If those are the AR Engineering hold-downs, they don't work real well with the dimpled stock-type rails
in that the end holes are cantilevered over the dimples and don't exert an even clamping force effectively.

My experience...

Joe

I honestly don't remember which bolts are on my motor. The motor was assembled years ago. Been doing some front suspension work and noticed oil coating on many under chassis things, and can see little drips forming on many of the bolts. Pan rail itself is dry and the pan is in very good shape (no bends). I am not using any sort of hold downs.

Did the factory bolt use a split washer?

Dave

Nope on the split washer, and I think the torque spec on pan bolts will not compress
a normal split washer enough to be effective.

Maybe an internal star....

Joe

Nope, never from 1955 to now on all the V8 I've work on The oil pan bolts have a capture flat washer, not split or star washers
On your deal I would put some adhesive silicone sealer on the threads and tighten them so they have decent tension on them, that should stop the oil coming down the threads

I bought a composite windage tray from Summit and have been pretty happy with it - molded in modern rubber o-ring style gasket on both sealing surfaces. After I installed it and a new pan (old one was crunched), I still had leaks that were coming from the front of the engine - pulled out the bolts that were going into the timing cover, RTV'd them, reassembled, and now it has finally stopped leaking!

Does you motor have a stroker crank? I wonder if these off the shelf composite windage trays will clear a 3.91" crank.

I need to think about whether to just try to seal the bolts or pull the pan and start over.

Thanks!

They offer two sizes of them if I remember correctly - one for 3.75", and I think the other for 4.25". Mine is a stock stroke 440 so I used the 3.75" one. At 3.91" I'm sure you could use the 4.25" stroke version but it likely won't give you as much of a benefit as one specifically made for the 3.91" stroke.

Cab, I know internal star washers were never on pan bolts, just offering a remedy.

Joe

The only time I had problems with bolts leaking was on the Max Wedge engine. Bolts keep coming lose and the rest did drip a little. Long story went back and checked the service manual, it showed the torque, so many inch pounds?, after doing I never lost a bolt or leaked again. Never had to use any sealant, had windage tray also. stock bolts too

Superformance gasket and ARP pan stud kit here. Best setup for the Milodon pans and scrapers.

I bought a Milodon pan and oil pan stud kit for my LA, guess what doesn't fit? The nuts in certain places, you'd think Milodon would have that sorted out, but nope.

Sorry for the tangent, it is what I do sometimes.

No need to be sorry IMO, the quality just keeps going further in the toilet and they really don't seem to care, but the big boys still get their BONEus's for running the company into the ground. Then they get a huge exit package.
When I was in corporate america engineering I was a problem employee to most as I would stir the pot on cr-p like you describe. So you're not alone