1959 361ci. swap to 383

Will a 1968, 383 directly replace a 1959 361 that is bolted to a push button automatic transmission? Was thinking it would work if the flywheels swapped.

I don't see why not.They are both low deck big blocks.If I am missing something I am sure someone will let me know.

I am not 100 percent sure but I believe there is a difference at the cranks rear flange.

I believe up to 62, Mopar's had the extended crankshaft, the torque converters and flywheels had bolts that passed through the crankshaft flange and threaded into the converter or flywheel.

To install a modern (newer the 62) motor to replace an original I believe your going to need an adaptor between the crank and the torque converter or flywheel. Gene

You are correct sir. The mating of the engine and trans prior to 1962 is completely different than 62 and later. Also different is the trans, cables/ control, driveshaft flange emergency brake etc. They did almost a 100% redesign of all mechanicals in 62.

On both, been there done that more than once, use the later 727 and buy and use a decent floor shifter
If you do this complete swap you will need to change the driveshaft also, Mopar use the old ball and trunion type front U joints in the automatic cars until 1965, they switch them on the stick shift cars in 1966.

Thanks for the info everybody. Just trying to figure out all my options. And it looks like the easy option is not a option.🤔. I might be getting a car with a tired 361.

And a driveshaft and a different E brake setup. The list goes on.

What about swapping the 361 crank in with a fresh polish, bearings and new rear main? Do the '68 heads and block have all the accessory mounting holes needed?

I like this. As far 361 crank comes great is a nice solution if you wanna get a 383 into your 59.

I guess you wanted to make a straight plug and play job without deal with engine dissasembling, but this would be a partial refreshing job on the 383.

I think some other stuff will be needed like keep the old 361 water pump and miscellaneous parts ( pulley, brackets ) to be installed into the 383.

To The OP, Trust me when I say swap the engine and trans both or not at all.

OP, if you do this crank swap make sure and have it balanced to the 383 piston and rod weights

Interesting options. I’m wondering if newer heads would work on the 361. I believe, the problem with the engine is with a valve in the head. Engine shakes bad at idle, but smoothes out at speed. Engine doesn’t burn any oil. Engine runs very quiet also, (no rod or lifter noises) There is gas in the clean oil. (Could be the fuel pump). Just noting what I observed when I first looked at the car. I’m supposed to pick up the 59 coronet this weekend and the guy selling it assured me it would be running smoothly, but I’m not holding my breath.

unfortunately, i may have to agree with this.
looking through my myriad of FSMs, the 1960 plymouth manual shows an 8 bolt crank flange on the 361.
with that being said, i don't know if if the bolt circle is the same diameter as the later 6 bolt 383. if it is, it may be possible to machine up an adapter to make the crank flange the same length as the 361, then modify the flex plate from an 8 bolt to a 6 bolt by slotting a couple of holes.
however, i would have to see both cranks and be able to precisely measure the flanges and the bolt patterns to be even remotely certain this may be feasible.

the newer heads will work, but the compression will be lowered a little by the 383 open chamber heads vs the closed chamber 361's.
at least i think the 361 has closed chamber heads in that year. i have been way wrong many times before though.

My first Mopar car was a 1959 Dodge Coronet with a 326 C.I. poly motor(one year only, Dodge used the 318 poly motors after 1959) and a Powerflyte 2 speed tranny.
I remember the other 1959 Dodges with BB in them were either "Royals or Custom Royals, not Coronets
Is this a 2 barrel or 4 barrel motor?
It should have four bolt valve covers with aluminum rocker arm shaft hold down if it is a pre 1964 361 motor
I'm not sure when Mopar, all brands, stop using the 361 and 413 motors in the passenger cars

It’s a custom royal. I’m not sure of the carb. yet. I used Coronet because it was easier to type. Didn’t realize the name could dictate what engine it got. Still have a lot to learn about these cars.

but what about using the 361 crank into the 383 block as mentioned?

won't the 383 block meet the 727 iron case ?

and yes, 361 got open chambers BUT smaller valves too. Can't tell about piston height difference thought

pretty sure the 413 when the 440 was released and the 361 when the 383B... Maybe ?

or wasn't the 426 wedge a replacement fro the 413, then the 440 the replacement for the 426 ?

something like that LOL

They say it's an eight bolt flange on the 361 vs. 6 bolts for the 383. Seems like the 383 might already have a flex plate attached? I know nothing of the balance problems. IIRC, the closed chamber head engines have the piston lower in the bore vs. the later open chambers. So he's getting the 906 heads over whatever closed chamber heads he has now. If I was younger, I'd enjoy the challenge of getting it all figured out and have fun doing it, not these days though...

The pre 62 autos used a separate bellhousing which had to be dialed in to the torque converter hub when removed or the converter changed. The converter mounts directly to the crank. then the bellhousing to the bloc. per the FSM you heat the front of the converter to get it within spec which is +/- .0015 or .002. It's a trial and error until you get the hang of where and how much to heat> BTW you wont find this info in the trans section, it's at the back of the engine section. AMHIK. Failure to do the above will typically take out the front bushing in a short time. I'm also not sure if the bellhousing to block bolt pattern is the same
Should you really want to pursue this idea here's a pic of the front of the trans and I'll say you have bigger "cajones" Than I

You ain’t kidding😬. I guess all I can hope for is to be able to work with the original engine and try to get it running right. I really want to retain the push button functionality of the transmission.

Is it a 2 speed Powerflyte or a 3 speed torqeflyte?

Give us an update when you get the car.

Imperial Services makes a kit to use your pushbutton shifter with a newer trans. At the bottom:

http://www.imperialservices.net/Cparts.html

I have a friend who bought one of Imperial kits for using a GM250 O.D. tranny behind his M.W. 1963 plymouth, it wouldn't work so he sent it back to them.
He waited a long time after ordering it and to get it and then it wouldn't work

They don't even list a kit for a GM trans. It's not claimed to be universal.

I’ll post some pictures when I get it home Saturday 🤞

Thanks for the link. I see they are out of stock. I’ll have to call them up about when they can make more.

According to him they sold him the kit saying it would work and it took forever to get. I wonder if they were developing it after he made his order.
He ended up getting another brand that does work
My message is be careful when dealing with them

Here’s a pic of the car. I posted more pics on the general forum.

Beautiful car!

Thanks guys

wow!!!

what's wrong with the 361 ? ( aside the lack of available pistons for them ).

If you have a nice 383, just go find a newer 727, mate them up and put them in together. That of just get the 361 running as best you can and drive it until it fails.

dam that is sexy.

I've been told a '65-only 727 will work with a later 383 and the pushbuttons, because of the compatible "rooster comb" still in use that year.
2 guys that should definitely know from experience have told me that.

The pre-62 transmissions are a different trans altogether and do not have a park mechanism relying on a brake band mounted to the back of the trans instead. One may be able to make something work but it's not going to be a plug and play deal. May be more information on the Forward Look site

the 65 only transmission works with the 62-64 pushbutton with the park lever.
it is desirable because it has a slip yoke instead of the ball and trunnion u-joint, while still using the two cables necessary for the pushbutton shifter.

1961 and older was a cast iron torqueflight or a powerflite 2 speed depending on the car.
1962 was the first aluminum 727 with a 6 bolt crank and a flexplate.

The 1961 and older crank has 8 holes and the flange sticks out much further.

In the 59 dodge, the generator mounts on the exhaust manifold
and water pump housing. There are no bolt holes in the ends of the heads.
The power steering pump mounts to the water pump housing.
So other than the crankshaft and water pump housing you could use the rest of the 68 383.

Last year of a 361 in a car was 1966
Last year of a 413 in a car was 1965

Is the engine to trans bolt pattern the same?

That's why I'm saying, build up the 383 with the 361 crank. ( and well... WP and exhaust )

I'll ask again, Is the engine to trans bolt pattern the same?
Also are there any other dimensional differences beyond the length of the crank ? motor mounts? Sounds like a can of worms to me

I believe the bell housing bolt pattern between the 59 361 and the 68 383 are the same, Chrysler was pretty consistent concerning bell bolt patterns.

As far as the rest of the stuff? Most of the guys that did such swaps are no longer around, or couldn't remember for sure. The crankshaft issue would have been the end of the swap for most guys. I'll go out on a limb here and say the 361 motor mount brackets will probably bolt onto the 383. You will have to use the 59 body end of the mounts in the 59 car, that I'm sure of, unless you want to do a lot of redesigning.

If you really want that 383 in that car, do whatever it takes to put the 383 trans in the car as well. Its going to be easier to manage shift operation and deal with emergency brakes then it will be to deal with crankshafts, and the 383 trans would be a better trans. Gene

You are making this hard.

The block is the same. The mounting ears and bellhousing pattern and dowels are the same. The starter area is the same. The accessories all bolt on the same. The rear main seal retainer is different at the side seals, but you can use the common seal retainer in the older blocks. The freeze plugs in block and head are a different type 1962 and older, but it doesn’t change anything. They are a disc instead of a cup type.

Spend some time troubleshooting the 361 and see if you can fix it First.

The mounts are the least of the problems. They will interchange from block to block. If you are looking to keep that transmission and go to a bigger motor then forget about the newer 383 and get one from a 1959 to 1961 Mopar. You could even use a 413. If you get an older 383 just beware because they made it in a low block and a raised block version. I believe the 59 and 60 Windsor used an RB 383. The low block version you could use you parts from the 361 on.

I am not trying to make it hard but rather make sure the OP knows what he is getting into and learn a bit myself

Myself, I'd go with the poorboys suggestion and upgrade to the aluminum 727. I had issues a few yers back finding a turque converter for a 59.The first one was DOA, the 2nd had the wrong ring gear (industrial unit) Lost my backsider on that deal. Working around the issues associated with the 727 seem to be a bit less challenging and one gets a more reliable trans. Or as you stated, see if the 361 can be fixed with minimal cost / effort

the newer 383 has a 6 bolt crank flange, while the older 361 has an 8 bolt crank flange, and as has been already stated, the 361 crank flange is 1" longer than the newer 383.
so if using the 383, some kind of an adapter will have to be made to mate the crank to the 361 flexplate. that may, or may not be hard to do. it may not be even possible, i don't have a crank in front of me to inspect as to the possibility of such an adapter.
the 59 engine mounts will have to be used on the 383, as they are an entirely different style of mount than the newer 383 uses.
the accessory mounting holes on the end[s] of the 383 head[s] may be different than the 361 heads. i'm just stating this as a precaution if the OP decides to use the 383 heads to get the 361 running. also, the 361 heads may be closed chamber heads as well, while the 383 may have open chamber heads. [i don't remember what the 361 had for heads.]
i think this post may be repeating myself.

The mounts on the 361 will work on the newer 383. I used them to put my 440 in my car. I think he is looking to try and stay somewhat original and wants to keep the pushbuttons. There are adapters made.