Zero energy '79 Power Wagon

it's like there's no battery in truck. No power whatsoever; no headlights nothing; dead; First thing I checked was battery. Full charge. Checked battery connections and cleaned them to be sure. Not even sure if this could be problem but I removed all bulkhead connections and cleaned thoroughly (they didn't look bad...did this a short time ago). Seeing that the pos battery cable goes directly to starter relay, I replaced that with new one after cleaning all contacts. I inspected all the wires running along the inner fender along battery side and all look fine. Neg battery cable looks fine and grounded tightly. Only thing I did recently was pull dash out a little to remove speedo cable as I am replacing that. My amp gauge is already bypassed with a brass bolt through both connections from gauge and taped off with electrical tape (did that about a year ago) and it's still very tight and unmolested. I looked at fuse box and don't see a fuse that would have caused this and didn't see any that appear blown. Lastly, I got under truck and followed speedo cable routing to see if it's path is same as something else that I might have disturbed. Looks like maybe it shares a crossing with the Neutral Safety Switch wire but that appeared fine and this wouldn't cause a zero energy situation anyway. I'm lost as to what's my next step. Is there a fuse relay somewhere? I had the same situation on my Diplomat and it was a fuse relay on inner fender but I don't see one on this truck. Thanks! Larry

Check the fuseable link usually attached to the starter relay.

How do you test or tell if that is bad? I don't see anything from the relay to battery with actual fuse inside. I'll get a pic. Thanks.

There’s this white connector which I cleaned

Relay

Looks like the blue wire that feeds the red wires. I was trying to find a replacement picture for reference.

The wire I circled in purple? That's the closest I see to blue one.

Oh probably black one? Circled in orange in this pic

yes, the orange circled wire, trace it to see if it is connected.

Black wire from relay splits to to reds. One red to bulkhead other to the white connector I already posted so I think you're onto something even though It all seems to be connected.

Hoping you can see. Starter relay is new and I cleaned the black wire well. Cleaned bulkhead connections too.

The one that goes into the bulkhead usually feeds the starter switch to powers the truck. Take a test light and see if you have power to the black feeder wire to check for power. See if the bulkhead wire has signs of heat damage.

Okay got it. Thanks. What would heat damage indicate?

Inside of the connector that plugs into the bulkhead looks like it got hot. Still plugs in fine and contacts are okay as far as I can tell but at the bottom of the plug it is rough as if melted a tiny bit and I was able to pick off a couple small pieces of plastic that might have come loose as if melted of a small layer. Didn't pay much attention when cleaning the connector but now I recall seeing it. Again, everything plugs back fine and metal contacts are firm and in place. Any idea what happened and what I should do now?

Grab the red wires and pull. If the link is burned out, the black wire will stretch.


Tim

ok I'll try that

The fusible link will burn in two inside the rubber coating.

Thanks guys. You had me following the wires from the fusible link so being that the one red ones goes into bulkhead I decided to pull the gauge pod out entirely instead of just the ittle bit I did to check where I had bypassed the amp gauge. Once I did that I could see the red wire to the amp gauge had melted some prior to the amp gauge connector. There was an existing connection there but I have no idea whether it was factory or someone else had done but I remember giving it some electrical tape while I was there anyway doing the amp gauge bypass. When I wiggled it the key on buzzer started when I let go buzzer off. So that’s where the problem is there is some bare wire showing and it obviously had done a little bit of melting. Again I don’t know what this is and what would cause us to melt. I did add a 150 power master alternator about a year or so ago. This would not have caused that to happen with it? Here’s the problem junction in red wire. Just after is my wrapped amp gauge bypass and it looks fine still. I circled burn spot in orange. There's bare wire poking out top. Almost looks like there might have been some kind of factory inline fuse or something.

Glad you found it.

Might consider doing the complete ammeter bypass. Takes the load off the bulkhead connector, not to mention the harness.

http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml



Tim

I want to do the complete one; I actually took it to a local auto electric shop that's been in business for 40 years and he said "I did a bunch of those back in the day but I don't do them anymore". He's an older guy and not a conversationalist so I didn't ask why. I guess one day I'll take it on myself. I try to stay with real simple stuff. As Inspector Callahan said, "A man's got to know his limitations"

I hear ya. Electrical problems have never been my strong suit. Back around 1976 my first car - a 70 Cuda 340, developed an electrical problem - an intermittent one. Sometimes the car would just go dead - like your scenario. I took it over to "Livonia Auto Electric" - what more do you need in a name than that? The guy called me a couple hours later & said "car's ready - 35-bucks." When I got there I asked him what went wrong. He showed me a wire under the dash & said he installed a fuseable link, which I saw. I don't know if the wire melted down like yours or why, but he said "they do that a lot - you won't have that problem anymore." Anyway, never had that problem again.

Also many years ago - summer 1968-9, we were on vacation in Michigan's UP - middle of nowhere, & our few year old 65 Ford wagon decided that when you turned on the headlights, the ignition would just cut-out - car went dead. My Dad took it to some small rural auto repair place & the guy fixed the problem. I don't remember the whole story - wish my Dad was still around so he could fill me in on the details. That same trip, one of the wheel bearings went bad too & we had to get that fixed on the road as well. Thinking back, those were problems that should have never happened on a 3-4 year old car. I've never been crazy about Phord products, & my wife's 2013 Edge is NO exception!

Poor connections will cause excessive resistance and heat. Wiring and connections that aren't sealed well will eventually corrode and cause poor connections. Cut out any discolored wires and by that I mean the copper strands. Solder fresh wire back together and use heat shrink with sealer to insulate it..

one of my pet peeves are those cheepy bolt together battery terminal ends guys use on everything when the factory ends get buggered up by guys not using the proper methods to remove them.
then to add to the fun, they bolt on a bunch of extra wires to the 1/4" bolts that hold the strap over the battery cable.
and if that bolt isn't long enough, a longer one is used, and it pokes a hole into the battery case, or becomes a jack bolt that promptly pulls the battery post out of the case.

New wire harness time!

Sunroofcuda, I'm just happy this time it happened in my driveway! I just drove the truck on a 65 mile round trip too.

Moparx I've been watching for NOS positive battery cable because I have one of the crappy ones. Can't stand them either. Look so cheap and perform cheap too.

Thanks Guitar I was wondering if the poor connection and insulation might cause this. I will repair properly! Thanks! If this particular piece was something I could replace I would but this wire comes out of the bulkhead.

On a different note, I'm disappointed how quickly my Borgeson Steering Shaft got rusty. I know it's surface stuff but it's not like I leave hood open and leave it out in rain. I'm going to clean it up and paint. I also need to clean inner fenders. Always so much to do.

can you cut the broken part out, and use a solder butt connector like such, but you prob need 10g.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pco-4000kt

your alt is bypassed now so that the current doesn't run through your ammeter? it prob got burned up from charging a really low battery off the alt...

Never seen one of those connecters. Interesting. Yes alternator has been bypassed for quite awhile. I connected both wires from amp gauge with brass bolt and wrapped in electrical tape. It still looks good after a year or more; no melting. Thanks all.

The alternator isn't bypassed, just the ammeter. That is the current path from the alternator- comes in through one bulkhead connector, flows across the ammeter, and goes back to the battery through another bulkhead connector. Common problem on Mopar cars and trucks (at least Mopars- I don't know if other manufacturers do it the same way). The MAD Electrical link I gave him details the way to do a complete (and proper ) bypass on the ammeter.


Tim

Right just amp gauge bypassed. I swear I'll get to that correct bypass one day, with help from my brother.

Any opinions on my Powermaster 150 amp alternator causing this? I believe factory was 60 amp. Did I blow it with this "upgrade"? Guitar mentioned the poor connection and insulation may have caused the melting and that's what I'm hoping. I don't know what that connection was and if it was a factory thing. Almost looks like there was some kind of inline fuse at one time with transparent sleeve? I can't tell because it was in bad shape when I got truck. All I did was wrap it better with electrical tape.

That connector type is a crimp type, not a solder type but I do both on them for high current caring loads
You will need a # 8 gauge wire crimper to crimp it properly

Thank you!!

if that wire isn't in the direct path from batt to alt., then i don't see how the 150amp alt would've done that. i'd guess that likely it has been like that and is just now giving you problems. especially if you were in there trying to get your speed cable hooked up and were pushing wires around. i think sometime in the past, the wire got kinked, some of the strands broke and then it burned a bit.

That wasn't a dig at you by any means (or anyone else). I did the bolt and nut trick on my sons Charger for several years until I found out about the MAD write-up.
Very possible the alternator aggravated the situation with the increased amps but by no means was it your fault. You could actually cut the wire at the alternator (tape the harness side very well), splice in and run a piece of 10 gauge wire from the alternator to the starter relay (using a 14 ga. fusible link as seen in the MAD write-up). This would take the main load off the bulkhead and the 1979 wiring. You'll still have the original wire from the relay feeding the dash circuit. Hence my comment about taping the harness end of the wire at the alternator as it will be "hot" with 12v from the dash circuit.
Wish you were closer. I'd give you a hand with it.


Tim

on this bypass you did. did you run a new wire from your alt output to the B+ lug on your starter relay?
if not, then yes your 150amp alt could've caused that wire to burn up. most likely if the battery got low and you drove the truck around and let it charge the batt up. it usually burns up the connectors at the bulkhead. so the kink/broken strands in the wire might've been the most resistance in that circuit and why it burned up there...

I did not do that. Thanks I'll do that. Hopefully I have an engine swap soon and a mini starter same time and will do that. Also I have bigger better battery now and have not been letting it run down. Thank you for this info. The bigger alternator is an example of fixing what wasn't broken. I like overbuilt things but I probably should've stuck with maybe 100 amps max. Larry

Was AFK for a bit and know ya know tin grille wiring. When it goes dark dark sometimes all ya have is headlights because not through the amp gauge or bypass that turns everything else off. volt meter at battery, work up starter relay, bulk head, gauge, fuse panel buses, fuses, loads. PO questionable wiring is standard issue on top of factory questionable wiring. When in doubt, disco loads you can't id.

Definitely never had headlights or any other power and jiggling the melted junction in red wire formerly to amp gauge brought everything back so definitely have issue there. Going to clean up that connection real well and hopefully holds me over until engine swap and I'll do some more with starter wiring when I'll add mini starter (as much as I love the sound of the old school Chrysler cranking). Thanks. Larry

all you need is a little 10g wire and a 12g fusible link, a few inches. solder and heatshrink and three connector lugs (alt, relay and the original alt wire which can also go to the b+ lug on the relay).
with that alt you have on there i would make that top priority. it would suck to burn the bulkhead up and have to replace that stuff.

Yes it would!!! Thanks all. Larry