valley pan installation

Okay, I was getting ready to put my valley pan on my block and then do the intake install.. (383) Today I was talking to a mechanic friend of mine who said I need intake manifold gaskets put on the block first, then the valley pan...I was under the impression the valley pan took the place of intake gaskets and all that was required was to install the pan and then put the two hold down pcs. on the front and back. Also what kind of gasket sealer would be the best to use on the pan, and would you apply the sealer on the block as well as the top of the pan for the intake ? I've never heard of using both intake gaskets and the pan as well ? need some advice...thanks..

Thin layer of silicone on the end rails with an extra dab where the head and end rails meet. On the other surfaces between manifold & head, use "Indian Head" or Permatex brush on sealer on both sides. I wouldn't bother with the paper gaskets unless you "need" them to compensate for some sort of milling that has been done.

Original was just the tin valley pan. That was how my 361 BB was.

Mopar never used any intakes gaskets on BB motors that had the stock valley pan
The stamp steel valley pan is embossed to serve as the only sealing surfaces needed
As already mentioned if the heads and block have been milled very much you may need the thin fiber intake gaskets between the valley pan and the intake side of the heads and the pan to help seal it up so it doesn't suck oil up into the intake manifold

I never have used paper gaskets either. I do use a thin coat of Hylomar Blue sealant around the ports on both sides of the valley pan. The Hylomar stays sort of soft and isn't affected by fuel.

I think the inly time paper gaskets were used/offered by Chrysler was a service fix for mismachined intakes on the A12 cars.
A package of 4 very thin paper gaskets were to be used with the valley pan.

Some guys theorize also that paper gaskets keep the intake cooler.
Not sure if that has ever been proven.

The valley pan is a combined valley splash shield and outer perimeter gasket design -- a common design for large wide-spread engines, such as the BB Mopars.

The fiber side rail gaskets were originally installed by Chrysler only on the rare 1969 aluminum six-pack manifolds.... due to slight out-of-flatness in the assembly. Realistically, the installation of the side fiber gaskets (2 bottom, 2 top) helps to seal the entire assembly regardless of the manifold (and head) material -- cast iron or aluminum. Best to always install them, but your mileage may vary.

I'm a former gasket engineer from a major company. I know the history behind the designs.

thanks so much for all the input and responses...I think I'm informed well enough now to go ahead with the manifold install...

It would seem that 2 gaskets, one above and one below the valley pan, would potentially raise the manifold enough for alignment issues with the intake bolts.
I have had some issues in the past where the misalignment allowed valley oil to get pulled into the combustion chambers through a gap between the intake and head.
In that case, with the addition of gaskets, the valley pan ribs couldn’t crush, as was intended for sealing.

Regarding the service action for poor manifold machining, those gaskets were much thinner than the gaskets normally made available today.

"...those gaskets were much thinner than the gaskets normally made available today."

Yes, they are thin and do not affect the bolt hole or port alignment.

Those intake gaskets are made form .015 to ,060 thick, depending on the vendor

Trying these next


http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...EJsb2NrIChMb3cgRGVjayk=&partid=33979

Not having much luck on my 383/432 - Edelbrock E Street Heads and Weiand Action Plus Dual Plane

Block was resurfaced only , about .003

Tried Fel Pro Gaskets with Tin Pan - Tin Pan only - Gaskets on head side only

Gaskets dry on head surface , nothing around the ports

No vacuum leaks , Engine idles and runs Awesome

Sucking small amounts of oil intake ports

You can see the crush marks from the Tin Pan around the Intake ports

Before installing any intake gasket check the manifold on the engine without gaskets.
Standing at one end shine a light from the other end and see if the intake and head are touching equally at top and bottom.
You can also use a feeler gauge - checking at top and bottom. Sometimes just sliding the intake back and forth a bit will center it between both heads.
One other thing, make sure you have it centered when installing it and BEFORE you start tightening the bolts. Once it’s cocked it’s gonna stay that way.

My guess if one bank is wet then it’s cocked to one side.

Whenever I am using cast iron intakes and heads, I have never had to use the fiber gaskets with the valley pan. However, when using aluminum, I have always used the fiber gaskets to sandwich the valley pan. I bought a vehicle several years back, that had a 440. The guy I bought it from had installed a TM-7 intake and didn't use the fiber gaskets. After 100 miles of freeway driving, it developed a nasty vacuum leak around the intake and left me sitting in Friday rush hour traffic, Christmas weekend in Portland, Oregon. It was not one of my happiest afternoons.

I have set the intake in place dry on the bare heads before

My smallest feeler gauge is .006" brass - Top , bottom , both sides I can’t get it to slide in anywhere

Port alignment on this intake manifold sure isn’t the greatest when setting up the valley tin pan

The port alignment on the E Street Heads with the valley tin pin installed is perfect