Nick's Garage, 440 header dyno test

Hi Everyone in Mopartsland,

Did you see the the Header versus cast manifold test on Nick's Garage!

Once Covid gets itself under control I hope to return to the drag-strip again.
This time with my street car a 1971 Plymouth GTX, 440 sixpack.
(Very rare in the UK and around the world, as you well know).

So whats my plan, to run in UK 'SUPERSTOCK'.


I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw Nick doing a stock Hipo manifold test against a header!!!

I always thought they would be a restriction BUT that RESULT is OUTRAGEOUS...

Look here LOOK HERE

Welcome to the party. #WOMANifolds #Justice4Nick

LOL !!!! good stuff

OMG I thought folks might NOT notice the other SIMILAR thread...

This thread is about the SHOCKING results of an UN-RIGGED Fanimold test...

The other thread is about something completely different... DYNOWARS...

Anything Nick says is TOTALLY TRUE as the GREEKS invented the MODERN WORLD...

Easy there, friend - it sounds like you’ve had too much to think!

Nick's video is one set of tests on one combination. That is all it is. It is not what everyone can expect on every combination. So, don't read too much into it. Nick's combo appreciated the headers more than most of the combos that I have swapped headers onto. But that doesn't mean he is wrong on that combo.

Frankly, I am a little surprised at the amount of debate on here that surrounds one test that almost all of us have done at one time or another. Most of us older guys have swapped manifolds for headers over the years. Some of us have done it many times.

This Engine Master's header dent test is even more interesting, IMHO: www.dailymotion.com/video/x3vupq0

Some of us get it. The factory HP manifolds can be good performers, up to a certain threshold. Cam, compression and other factors will determine how quick you get to a point where headers make a difference. If you hardly ever break 5,000 rpm on a stock-ish motor in a street car, it probably isn’t worth your time to make the swap and give up low rpm torque. If you are getting into single planes and solid lifters, you are leaving a lot on the table after 350-400 hp and a good pair of headers will give you some real gains.

Every car is different and every driver is different. Personally, I’d rather a torque monster that’s all-in by 5,500 because that’s all I’ll ever use it for. Your mileage may vary.

Mmmmmm,

It looked like a 440 with an iron sixpack too me?
Thought the valve covers were awful but the rest seemed OK.

That’s the exact same combo I want to run so it seemed ‘right up my street’.

SO the results affected me greatly and I was deeply shocked.

A good Moparmate a few years said to me “ those hp manifolds are very restrictive”.
NO I SAID this cannot be, now I know, HE WAS RIGHT.
His Hipo 440 had terrible feuling issues, that never got overcome till he ran headers.
Always fouling plugs in traffic and heavy deposits on the valves...

NICK has proved it, without a doubt...

All hail the snowflakes...

The only thing that Nick proved is that headers ultimately outperformed manifolds on THAT motor and on THAT dyno. You would need a lot more testing to give any numbers with confidence. If it was one-size-fits-all, header manufacturers would be screaming those numbers from the rooftops. You will pretty much always gain peak HP with headers over manifolds unless something is really wrong. WHERE you see that gain (is it even useful?), and how big it is with YOUR combo will dictate if the swap is worth it for you.

To make the motor perform its best it has to be tune from the air cleaner to the exhaust tips for the best results, my deal on the 2.5 inch system being removed at the races really shocked me
3.0 I.D. pipes verses the 2.5 inch and the differences in the two different types of muff was a real eye opener, it is the total system effect that makes the differences

Sounds like a long duration camshaft (.509) and it could explain why the manifolds did poorly. I think a better cam like the Mopar .528 would help the manifolds a lot.

Cab, do you have a link to that thread? Thanks

So funny, the guy could say his bread is white, but one will say I see some gray specks, another says it was made with gravy, then another said he cooked it to long, then another says wasn’t cut evenly. Just can’t take it for what it is can we?

44hp difference??

Ppfffffftttt.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...-stroker-my-a12-upgrade.html#Post2553328

Exactly. The bigger the mismatch then the bigger the gain. I've seen over 100 hp difference before by changing the intake manifold so 100 hp on the exhaust side is within reason. Or you can flip the script and design an engine that would have basically zero difference between HP manifolds and headers. People who just look at the two numbers don't understand what is really going on.

I'm thinking this is another 'throw together' engine supposedly from a Roadrunner?
First thing that is very obvious is 'EARLY HEADS' pre 68 as there are NO core plugs in the ends.
The chances of them being 915's is very rare, so probably 'common and garden' 516's...

Closed chamber heads with low comp pistons and a BIG camshaft.

Should make 400hp all day long with that set-up...

Bet its still got the 1.60 exhaust valves which hurt the exhaust side with HP manifolds...

What real world engine would show zero difference between HP manifolds and headers?

I heard Nicks gonna do a water pump dyno test next, then someone will complain about what oil pan’s on it.

I wonder if he will be using distilled water, well water, city water, or RO water.

😳

Crick water with craw dads and poly wogs in there to. Might use some of those HP red plug wires but I heared the might mess up the test. A lot of belly ackn then.

I'd use spring water since it won't freeze, lol!

Never thought of that.

Excellent question even if it is rhetorical.

Rhetorical answer time, a non-running engine or one running so poorly as to be non-functional.

For those wearing blinders the point of discussion is that without knowing what cam and without tuning for the application this dyno is about as useful as a square of used TP. Do headers help? Most of the time but they have their issues as well. They are noisier, they put more heat into the engine compartment when running, they can have fitment issues, they are more prone to leaking, many hang real low and get damaged, finally they can make other maintenance chores more difficult. Cost is also a factor as the ones that have less of the issues mentioned are likely to be the more expensive ones as well, Quality costs.

If your only concern is HP then headers are part of the plan. If the issues I mentioned concern you then headers may not be part of the plan. Also, the more mild the combo the less help headers are and the more likely the issues headers have are important.

Jeez......this thread is amazing. The guy makes a YouTube video showing us the results from a simple parts swap while the engine is conveniently on a Dyno and people here go into full mangina mode,

God damn.

There was a late 80’s vintage BBC LS6 crate engine on the dyno here the other day.
It was a pretty low use piece that had just been freshened. Cylinders honed, rings & bearings, valve job, new springs, and a comp 282S magnum sft cam.
10.2cr, pump gas, Holley 650DP carb.
Runs manifolds in the car.
Motor was tested with the manifolds and some 1-3/4x3 headers.

Manifolds - 471tq@3600/438hp@5500
Headers - 523tq@3700/463@5600......... better by 52tq/25hp(peak vs peak).

The pulls were started at 3000, where the tq numbers were 448 for the manifolds and 504 for the headers.

It seems strange to hear 80's Vintage Ls 6 crate, I had one in my OLD 72 SS Chevelle LOL, DAMN I am OLD HAHA , where did the years go ??

Nick actually prefers manifolds over headers. He is definitely a stock component type of guy. If his video was titled "Headers make 44 more HP than manifolds" it would be fair to criticize him. He did not state headers are better than manifolds. He noted thru his testing of the ENGINE ON HIS DYNO- which he did not build and he knows NOTHING ABOUT ITS INTERNAL- made more power with headers. He didn't say yours or my engine would make more power with headers. Alot of fight wasted on Nicks garage. Save the fight for Powernation calling an 8 3/4" rear an 8 1/4". Or the guy heating 440 conn rod small ends cherry red with acetylene to fit the wrist pins. Nicks on our side and he is not deceptive.

I’ll second that

Optimus Prime and the Decepticons....

Its Nick's new PooTube channel.

Take whatever I 'say and do' and rip it to pieces with fake-news and drivel...
Sure to be a BIG hit with all the NAY SAYERS around the World.

Meanwhile 'BACK IN THE REAL WORLD',,,,YES, its needs to BEE a slightly better vid by Optimus, so we know the variables.
He loves saying ''I DIDN'T BUILD THID ENGINE, I DON'T KNOW WHO DID, BUT'' I'm gonna use it for a dyno header test...

Come on NICK, please stop playing the 'innocent onlooker' and GIVE US THE FACTS!
We can see that ain't no 440 ROADRUNNER engine from an A12 car, they only made 1400.


Its got pre 68 heads on there and low comp pistons...

Why 'o' why would you put a SIXPACK ON IT???

I'm gonna put my spare 1050 dominator on my 318 POLY D200, just to see what happens...
It has got 'restrictor rings' so it should be fine, 950cfmish...

Always liked Nick and his HEMI vids.

But when he started doing CRAP engines that can't get 'out of their own way' I became suspicious...

The 426 wedge, got us ALL HYPED UP to the MAX and its an INDUSTRIAL 'LONG CRANK' POO MOTOR!!!

WOW NICK, you certainly 'shot yourself in the foot' with that pile of nastiness...
Followed by the lopo '50's HEMI' of 'SUPER LOW POWER' and hardly worth the time to set it up...

Hopefully we can all move on from the MADNESS of 2020 (early-21) and do some REAL ENGINES worthy of a POOtube vid.

We want 2000hp 'DYNO breakers' like my good friend Tom Nelson does...

It takes ''A 'LIFETIME' TO GET A GOOD REPUTATION, AND A 'MINUTE' TO DESTROY IT''

I come here to bury NICK, not to praise him, the 'bad vid's that men do, lives after them and the 'good vids' are interred with their bones.

Long live NICK!

Some guys on this board have Trump living large in their head. You have Nick living in yours.

Have you tried Engine Masters? They detail pretty much everything inside their test mules. Because details do matter. Plus, you can have three guys living in your head with that show.

I didn’t realize Nicks videos were supposed to be technical video seminars.

I thought they were just supposed to be entertainment.

If that is true, then maybe Nick should be a little clearer that he is 'for entertainment purposes only'? It seems that there may be a bit of confusion on his purpose.

Personally, I learn something from most video posts of dyno sessions. Even ones that are fairly tongue-in-cheek like the Engine Masters beating the heck out of the header tubes. The important thing to keep in mind is that each test is on one particular combination. And may or may not have any application on any other combination.