Mechanical Roller lifter suggestions.

Hi all,

Done a ton of searching on here and had mixed results. I would like to go roller on my new 400 build (.30 over, kb240 pistons, 5 in the hole). I would like lifters that direct oil the wheel, I saw Andy used the AMC from Comp Cams but they no longer makes those. I have searched tons of websites and rarely does it state if the lifter direct oils the wheel. Plan on using Lunati 40230730 cam.

So what lifters should I get or suggestions?

Thanks!

I run the Isky Red Zone bushed mechanical rollers. I attached a cut-away photo. I believe there is some info floating on the web that they actually don't directly oil the bushing though. So far, my valve lash is very stable and my valve train is the smoothest running it has ever been. I did use B3 racing spec'd custom T&D rocker arm set-up and Manton Stage 5 7/16's pushrods.

Another thing that i did was install a collar on the distributor shaft to limit the up and down movement of the intermediate shaft gear(it dramatically reduced wear on my previous bronze gears), which is a hardened steel unit from Hughes Engines.

What is that passageway inside the red circle?

Looks like an oiling passageway to me?

I have comp 96829-16 lifters in my 440. They have the same height pushrod seat as the regular comp 829 lifters but have the orifice to oil the needle bearings and are made of stronger material. They also have a bushed version of my lifters with no needle bearings which are 96829b-16

Crane 66550-16 I bought mine from a member on here. competitionwedge I believe.

A few years ago at the Indy Cylinder Heads Mopar show I asked the Comp Cams guy what he thought of the bronze bushings instead of bearings in the rollers. His opinion was "race only - absolutely not for street use".

To your point about directing oil to the roller ... many brands advertise "pressurized roller oiling" for a specific style lifter but when you ask point blank "do the Mopar lifters have pressurized oiling" the answer will be "no". Do your homework. The Crane's do have pressurized oiling and also have the rollers shrouded to prevent uncovering the oil galley at high lift (not an issue with your itty-bitty cam).

They still make them. Just got a set last week.

Thanks for all the info.

Andy,
I have scoured their website and they appear to not exist. Can you share the part number or where you got them from?


Dan...

Yes, this picture definitely shows a direct pressure oil passage. As to if this guarantees that the Mopar set has this feature remains unclear to me. AndyF uses the AMC solid rollers for a reason, which I believe is related to the location of the pushrod seat and the shrouding of the lifter to prevent uncovering of the oil galley in high lift cam use. I could be wrong, but AndyF's knowledge of these lifters is from first hand, skilled machinist knowledge.

Notice Stanton points out the issue very well in his post. "To your point about directing oil to the roller ... many brands advertise "pressurized roller oiling" for a specific style lifter but when you ask point blank "do the Mopar lifters have pressurized oiling" the answer will be "no". Do your homework. The Crane's do have pressurized oiling and also have the rollers shrouded to prevent uncovering the oil galley at high lift (not an issue with your itty-bitty cam)."

Call Comp Cams and tell them that you want AMC solid roller lifters with Chrysler big block tie bars so you can use them in a big block Mopar.

For long life on the street with high RPM, above 7000 RPM, buy the best lifters you can get your hands on, regardless of the price
I like and use the Crower brand BB Mopar roller lifters now Contact them at 619-661-6477 8:00 AM to 5:30 PM Pacific time

WHAT?!?!?!

Engine Masters just had an episode on lifters. The focus was hydraulic vs roller, but at the end of the episode, Dulcich and Ehrinburg have a discussion about the different styles of lifters available. They really felt that while there were big differences in lifter quality between brands, there was not a clear winner as to which style was the 'go-to' one. All types had their strengths and weaknesses. Interesting stuff.

JBC, where did you source the collar shown in your post/
I have the collar from Hughs and it's the type you have to put a set screw into the shaft to tighten.
Your shows a cinching type which I believe will be easier to install.

Hughs shows in their catalogue the set screw type.

Thanks. Joe

I believe Hughes Engines used to carry the style I have pictured, but here's a link to another source.

https://www.huyett.com/products/power-transmission/shaft-collars/single-split-shaft-collars

I do clean the locking screw and collar with brake/carb cleaner, let it dry and use loctite on the screw. In addition to stabilizing my timing the collars significantly reduced the wear on my intermediate shaft gears.

I used to run bronze, but have since switched to the coated steel gears available at Hughes. I used to wondered how much having the bronze gear cryogenically treated would help, but when I switched to a new solid roller cam , I went with the steel gear.

JBC, do you remember off-hand what the diameter of the dist. shaft is?

Thanks, Joe

I think it is 1/2"

McMaster-Carr

https://www.mcmaster.com/shaft-collars/construction~one-piece/clamping-shaft-collars-9/

Thanks guys....Joe

Only use Comp Cams if you don't care if you motor blows on the dyno and your one that pulls hundred dollar bills out of your butt. Their lifters and rockers are JUNK.

I've used Comp Cam cams, lifters and rocker arms for years without any issues.

Years ago Comp was pretty good stuff but the last few years they have gone to crap. Have had several failures with their roller rockers and roller lifters on different motors Mopar, Ford and Chevy. A few were on the motor dyno before the motors ever saw a car.
Their customer service is worse than Indy Cylinder Head.
Here more about them
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopa...camshaft-ever-seen-one-like-this.203738/

I've been using Isky Red Zone solid roller lifters and have been very happy. Mine are the older ones (bought in 2006) w/ needle bearings, but have been flawless for years. They now have them w/ solid bushings...which is what I'll use next. Actually they can retrofit my current lifters to use bushings.

As for the not for street use comment, I don't believe that. My KB block doesn't have oiling to the lifters...the lifters only get splash and drainback oiling. Some would say that won't work on the street either. Been like that since 2006 and no problems at all.

I'm not looking to start an arguement or anything BUT ...

With regards to roller wheels with roller bearings versus bushings:

Bronze has been around since, well, "the bronze age" Its a known fact that it is probably the best bushing material on the planet. BUT it took years before any company decided to use it in a roller lifter. Why is that? Is it feasible that no engineer ever considered it until some time within the last 20 years?!?! I can't imagine there have been any advancements in the metallurgy of bronze that would have made it any better. So what changed, I'd really like to know

With that said, I've always pondered the beating those rollers must take from the amount of "lash". Seems to me you'd want something really tough in there - like steel bearings as opposed to softer bronze. And then there's the lubricating issue. The rollers have space between them to retain oil. A bronze bushing does not. And in case you're considering it, this is NOT a place you'd want to use sintered bronze.

So ponder these thoughts when you have nothing better to do. I'd be interested in hearing valid comments pertaining to the how and why.

Just did a little research on the bushed lifters. Isky says they've developed a proprietary bushing material since that has always been an issue having the bushing stand up to the abuse.
Another company uses different material depending on the spring pressures that will be used.
Some claim they'll last longer than needle bearing lifters.

The consensus is that bushed lifters will give you more warning when they are about to fail by opening up the lash. Whereas the needle bearing lifters are more prone to fail w/o warning.
Also the bushed lifter doesn't send shrapnel throughout the engine when it does fail.

B/c of the need for the oil to be in the bushing, I'm thinking my engine will be better off w/ needle bearing lifters since it doesn't feed pressurized oil to the lifters.
There are a good bit of guys running the bushed lifters on Drag Week apparently though.

Stanton...this info isn't meant to start an argument, just a discussion. I'm no metallurgist and I've never used these lifters before. Everything I've heard about the bushed lifters is good, but I have no firsthand experience w/ them.

Isky Red Zone Extreme bushed rollers in mine, .730" net lift, 700lbs open,......lash never changes. Idling at 1100 - 1200 for oil splash.

Oil is changed 2x per year, depending on the cars use; clean oil is supposed to be the mail thing to stay on top of with a bushed lifter. I have another near new set of the Isky Red Zones with needle rollers with little dyno use only - I might send them to Isky for conversion, I wonder if there is a contact for this, hmmm.

So far, so good

I asked them about converting mine from needle bearings to bushings a couple years ago and they said no problem. Costs around $700 IIRC.

Like you mentioned, if you only have splash oiling then needle bearings are probably better than bushed, as I understand



How many street miles are people putting on these? Since August I have about 2800 miles on Comp 96829B, so far so good

More food for thought.......

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2427893/1.html

I had an issue like that years ago where there was plenty of confusion at the mfg about what got shipped vs. what was in the marketing material. Bottom line was that you needed to know their catalog better than the sales guy in order to get the correct parts. The sales guy on the phone just sent the "normal" parts regardless of what you asked for. If you knew the secret code words then you were able to order the parts that had the pin oiling and the band in the correct location and all of that. I eventually switched my dyno engines over to the AMC lifters from Comp and they worked. Of course that isn't without problems since Comp doesn't actually have a part number for AMC lifters with Mopar tie bars. Once again, you have to know what works and then walk the sales guy thru the ordering process.

So the AMC are mechanical not hydraulic, correct?

Comp Cams web site doesn't even list a mechanical roller lifter for AMC.

The AMC solid roller lifter is number 861-16.
Then you would also order (8) of number 829-L link bars to use them in the BB Mopar.

If you don’t need the pushrod oiling, the Sportsman lifters(96829-16) are a better value IMO.
But if you want the edm oiling to the axles and pushrod oiling...... if you want to use Comp lifters...... it’s the 861’s and the 829-L link bar combo.

The Comp website is almost worthless, you have to look in the catalog or call them.

You can download a pdf of the 356 page catalog no problem.

If you are going to street drive at all, I would consider the Isky bushed.

Thanks Fish, that is what I was looking for.

So for a fairly mild roller the 96829-16 would be the way to go if oiling thru the shafts? Considering stepping up to a roller.

I’ve sold several sets of 96829B’s.......... some of which are used in cars that get a fair about of street use.
They have bushings instead of bearings, and the bearings/bushings have pressure fed oiling.

No problems reported yet.

One plus, if you’re looking to step up from the std 829’s is they both have the same pushrod seat height.
So, it’s a drop in upgrade that doesn’t require different pushrods.

I'm putting together a 511 with the ez heads you did for me. So I'm looking at upgrading to roller instead of sft.

If it’s a street/strip build, then I first look at how many miles per year it will get driven...... and then determine if going to a SR makes sense for how the car will be used.

Then, if it looks like the SR is a viable option........along with the particular cam profile, spring loads, and rocker ratio........ determine how good the lifters need to be based on usage, initial cost, and replacement/rebuild time intervals.

Low maintenance and pump gas are the main reasons i built another shortblock. Any 511 in an A body will be a handful.

If you want low maintenance then go with a hyd roller rather than a solid roller. You'll give up some power above 6000 rpm but you most likely aren't going to take a 511 in an A body to redline very often anyway. I run hyd rollers in both of my cars for the same reason.

I have those, I think that the new lifters are 99550's

The way the car is now it never sees the street. Its a 446 race gas only set up 590 cam so its not ideal for street driving. Best et 10.82 best mph 126.0.

I'm not against solid roller at all. Checking lash is no big deal. I guess a better way to describe it would be turn key, load and go to track.

BAM - DLC coated steel bushing lifter.

Thanks Chip, who is the best contact at Isky to contact?

Ive done a few thousand kms on mine without issue. The Bullet roller Im using doesnt have super aggressive ramps/lobes', this is the key for a reliable mostly street, some strip mill.

I want to say the guy I talked to was Richard? Not sure on that though.

Richard Iskenderian is the younger brother of Ron.
Richard has managed Isky for a lot of years now, he does good.
Not so good results on ordering with Ron

Same, I think. One good, one not so good.