Help me identify this crankshaft

Hello all,

I have a Dart with a 440. I am installing a new transmission. I think the previous owner had a converter and flex plate for a cast crank 440. All of my new components are for a internal balanced steel crankshaft motor. I want to make sure the crankshaft is steel.
Can you tell from the rear flange. I am pretty sure this is a 1973 motor.
Maltese cross on engine identification pad.

Does it have the dampner for the cast crank? Did it vibrate badly before? What I'm getting at is if it was smooth before then you need the properly balanced converter that you took off

Gus

Here’s a photo of the balancer.
I am finding all sorts of things that are spooking me as I go through the car.
I just want a second set of eyes to verify. Everything says steel crank.

Did your converter or flexplate have weights on it? That looks like a forged crank dampner though also the crank not being drilled for a manual input also says later model forged or cast crank. Most of the 440 forged cranks I have used were at least rough drilled for a 4-speed pilot.

Gus

It had a vibration that came in at about 3500 RPM. It had the round flex plate with the bite section, and the converter had 3 weights on it.
I was thinking this being a steel crank motor with these parts was the cause of my vibration.

Low mph cruising or heavy acceleration from a stop, no vibration. Interstate cruising around 60 mph vibration comes in.

My thinking is the previous owner assumed it was a late model 440 with a cast crank. Installed late model transmission, flex plate, and converter. My research before I started tranny swap, motor is a steel crank truck 440. I purchased TCI 727, with 2800 stall converter.

There's your problem, if the convertor has weights on it it shouldn't have the flex plate with the "Bite" out of it, it should have one or the other, not both. If it's a forged crank there should be no large weights on the convertor and a completely round flex plate.

Thanks! That was good information.
So, with the vibration I described, could it just have been the converter?
Based on the photo information, do you think I have a forged crank 440?

The harmonic balancer looks like a forged crank balancer but with the crank not drilled for a four speed it could be a cast crank. Only way to be sure is drop the oil pan and look at the crankshaft, that's what I'd do. That way there's no more guessing.

Okay, more work . The balancers should not be interchangeable if there is a concern. I will drain the oil and use a camera.

If you find it's a forged crank that flex plate and weighted convertor would definitely cause an imbalance. And if you find it's a cast crank only use either the weighted convertor or the "bite" flex plate, not both.

Thank you!

Look for the forging or casting number on the crankshaft and post that on here

Remove that after market flex plate and use a stock Mopar flexplate with a standard converter with no weights welded onto it

is there a partial VIN stamped on it? (mid-passenger side near the oil pan rail)

Not so fast,

Converters have two types of weights on them. One set, usually on the side, balance the converter to neutral. If the converter is then to be used in an external balance engine then additional weights, usually on the front, are added for the imbalance. A pic would clarify this.

So just having three weights on it doesn't mean it's an external balance converter.

All that said, nothing external with confirm or deny it's a cast or forged crank. You will need to pull the pan. Look at the parting line on the crank, thin line cast crank, wide line forged crank.

Drain the oil. Use a $20 cell phone bore scope camera to look up at the crank parting line. Stick it thru the drain plug hole.
Doug

I’ve bought lots of motors over the years and I’m not sure I have ever seen a steel crank with no hole at all. The steel shafts I have in my possession all have some kind of a hole, even if it is too small. I’ve even got some steel shafts out of trucks with pilot bushing installed but they had an auto from the factory. I have seen lots of cast cranks with no holes. That being said, never say never with Ma Mopar. If you have a round aftermarket flex plate with the round notch for the imbalance, you don’t need a converter with the imbalance as well. The three weights are probably just for the initial balance of the converter. I’ve got a picture on my phone of the big oem weight for a cast crank 440 I’ll post. I thinks it’s like 13 oz. My bud just bought a 69 charger 4 speed car. They had installed a cast crank motor with external balance and a neutral flywheel. It vibrated starting at 2000 rpm. There is no way to be sure in this situation until you look at the crank. Do you have a windage tray installed? It may be hard to see without pulling the pan. Someone could have taken a cast crank and had it internally balanced. Look for non factory holes or heavy metal in the crank throws. Honestly, you are just guessing unless you pull the pan. My best guess is that you have a externally balanced cast crank, a flex plate with the proper external balance already on and a neural converter. All this would match. If that is the case,the neutral balancer on the front needs to be changed to an external one to balance everything.

That’s the plan

Did it shake in neutral just revving the engine up?

Let’s us know the results.👍

Before we get too far down the road, if your engine has a harmonic balancer like this, and a flexplate like this, it could be a heavy rod forged steel crank engine. This era was a real mish-mash with Mopar.

No.

It definitely has the 73 forged crank balancer.

Here is the converter and flex plate I removed.

Here is a photo of the balancer again-

We need to see pics of the front of the convertor. The weights you pictured are to balance a neutral balance convertor, show the front, that's where an external balanced convertor will be balanced at.

Like I mentioned before, I am pretty sure this is forged crank motor that had a miss match transmission set up.
I am an enthusiast not a guru. I am making an educated guess hoping Moparts can massage out my uncertainty.
The vibration only occurred at around 60 mph. 391 rear.

Here are the new flex plate and converter.

Here is the front, no weights. So it could have been just the flex plate causing the vibration?

Okay, that's a neutral balance convertor, no weights on front but the bite flex plate is for using that convertor on a cast crank engine. If your engine is a forged crank engine that is the wrong flex plate for it. Use your new flex plate.

First pic with the shallow drill point cut looks like a cast crank.

.

Thanks for all of the help. I have another question regarding the transmission I removed.
What did this come out of? This section was hitting the frame in the tunnel that the tranny cross member attaches to.
It kept the transmission down a little causing the steering linkage to hit the oil pan when making a right turn. The new transmission tail shaft housing is what I am used to seeing. It does not have that.

If you discover it IS a cast crank engine that convertor and bite flex plate is correct for it and someone has the wrong harmonic balancer on the engine.

That's the snap ring access plate, you need a trans with that plate on the bottom by the trans mount or you could hammer the crossmember for fitment.

:(, ,

I am ready to go.... new transmission in the box,

GOOD, now you just need to find out if the crank's cast or forged before you put that trans in place.

Gods country 340, you have filled in the blanks for me.
Thanks so much for your help!

I should be ready to go when the current event of present time has passed.

👍😎

You said this is in a Dart (A-Body), what oil pan are you using?

A standard big block oil pan doesn't clear the center link/idler arm on a Dart, it has to have a recess in it or be reworked for clearance.

I am pretty sure this is the correct pan.
The second photo shows where it was hitting. I have been sorting this car out for a year and a half. I hop to have all of the gremlins out soon.

While some people say that oil pan is what to use on an A-Body because it has the indentation, it doesn't really work (as you have found out).

Both the 187 and the 699 oil pan have the indentation too far forward (close to the sump area).
They simply don't clear, I've got a factory 69 383 GTS and tried both the 187 and 699 oil pans when I was mocking up everything in the engine compartment for clearance and neither one cleared the center link at the idler arm.
The recess is in the wrong spot to clear.

I ended up using a 7 quart Hemi pan that I recessed my self with a hammer and a larger socket to make clearance.
I looked to see if I had a pic of the recess that I added, but none of the engine pics show that part of the oil pan.

Both the 187 and 699 oil pans are actually listed as C-Body oil pans.
http://www.440source.com/oilpans.htm

I finally purchased an inspection camera. The motor has a forged crank., windage tray, and a double roller timing chain.
going to start tranny installation.

THANKS MOPARTS!

A few yours back a friend bought a 451 kit from Muscle Motors and the 440 crankshaft wasn't drilled but was spot faced, was the first one we had ever seen and I posted it on Moparts but was 15 years ago. Glad you confirmed and is good that its neutral balance

See all those small not very deep drilled holes under the pulley in the balancer, that balancer looks a lot like one I have off of a forged steel crankshaft 400 truck stick shift motor
I haven't seen a late model truck or motorhome 440 motor with a stick shifts so I have no idea if they shared a similar balancer like the 400 motors had for the stick shift cranks, DANG Mopar anyways for having so many different parts on similar motors

I got an Eagle 4.15 crank in my 493 that isn't drilled for the pilot and I'm a stick shift guy

Gus

Gus, my friend loves four speed too but I told him "I guess this will be an auto!" I wanted him to go auto anyway