Considering a Gen III Hemi Swap

I ask this here because considering a 6.4 into my 1979 W150. I think it's a long-shot, mostly because of all the unknowns. I have a somewhat good idea of the cost (professional mechanic doing all work). It's just such a daunting swap, with so many unknowns, that I think it might be too overwhelming. If there were a known paved path already spelled out for me, it would not be so scary. But I've done (mechanic that is with me providing parts and researching a lot) several small block swaps going from LA to Magnum V8, A999 to 727, and even those present several obstacles that don't come to mind until one starts such a project. My truck is a factory 360-4, and I know engine mounts, hood clearance, transfer case, driveshafts, flexplate, fuel tank (one only behind seat), etc. etc. etc. are just a few of the obstacles. The rear end is an 8 3/8 and probably won't last. Can this even transfer to a 4wd. Should I not even consider this? I think it might be too overwhelming BUT the thought of a super powerful, smoothing idling, easy starting, reliable, durable, yet classic square body Dodge really excites me.I'll leave it alone if I really should.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-6-4L...Play-PCM-and-Harness-Mopar/392452095801?

P.S. edit: The truck is realiable now, don't get me wrong. I love the 360. But you know how carbs are, and more power is always fun. I'm not just a dreamer, I'm very serious about this swap if I have somewhat of a clear path.

SOUNDS LIKE you need to first consider joining the ThermoSquad !

Who be that?

I have a 5.7 core that I've pondered putting in my W200 but it does present some problems and expense so for now I'm just going to stick with the FI Magnum.

That would be my second choice (An FI Magnum). I contacted a company in Ft Lauderdale that I happened across that seems to be very professional and have a clean shop and Mopar oriented. They say they can perform the swap, but have not done one as of yet. I was hoping they had done one.

The company I spoke with is actually in Pompano Beach (close), American Muscle Performance. Would love to hear from anyone who has any experience. Otherwise, I would just use my friend and mechanic who runs his own shop, by himself. He would just take much longer and probably would prefer I take a project this size somewhere else, but will do it if I ask.

http://www.americanmuscleperformance.net/

Why would you want to spend all that money to make it slower. Unless it’s a show truck.

Powerful, smooth idling, reliable , durable? Sounds like you need a stock 440. lol

A Street Dominater intake and a ThermoQuad carb

Did you look at some of their prices ?

oUcH !

I've done a Magnum fi swap into a classic 50s Mopar, and I've helped with a 5.7 swap in a 50s Mopar. My 39 Dodge truck has an efi 5.9 Magnum, and the 49 Dodge truck sitting her will get a 5.2 Magnum efi swap next summer. I really like the stand along EFI harness at www.hotwireauto.com, not cheap, but it flat out plugs in, hook up 4 wires to the truck's harness, and runs.

Its been done a lot of times. Not usually a cheap deal, buy worth every penny as far as I'm concerned.

Why not ask on the Gen III Hemi forum here? They can probably provide you with the latest info. Gene

Fuel system, wiring, exhaust, cooling, pulleys & brackets, engine mounts, ECM along with a few other issues as well those you mentioned can turn it inot a labor intensive money grabbing adventure. Think it through before committing

Talked with several shops about this. I was thinking on a 6.4 swap. First, they like to put a fresh wiring harness in the truck. Second, go the SB 727 route. You can always add an AOD later. Next, the fuel system. That needs a total upgrade. As far as exhaust you can go late model Jeep or Headers from Bouchillon. They also have motor mounts.

On the fuel system I went with a Tanks Inc universal tank relocated within the rear frame. The only thing I would have to do on a swap would change to an in-tank pump an add a return line.

I'm slowly collecting the pieces for an E body Gen III swap, I'm still "old school" so I'm going with dual quads on the MP Gen III dual quad intake and run the aftermarket Gen III distributor drive, and plan on planting a 6 spd T56 behind it, no computer crap or in tank crap for this old boy....

That should be a fairly easy swap. Lots of room in the W150 engine bay. I put a 5.7 in my 55 Dodge truck. Wasn’t that hard to do. Biggest issue was the tight engine bay in the 55. I had to move the fire wall back 6 increased to get it in there. I used a Hotwire plug and play harness.

Do the swap Larry. There is no way an equal LA engine could touch a 6.4L Hemi in terms of performance.

Another swap to consider is a 5.7L since they are 1 to 2 thousand as a good core and use a http://www.hotwireauto.com/?page=main

I think they had a harness to run a 5.7L Hemi with a GM computer. Which is the easiest and most readily available for support.

I like the idea of SB727 route at first at least. Enough to overcome at first. Yes, I agree with you on fuel system. I need to get the tank from behind the seat anyway. And it does seem that Jeep SRT headers would fit well. So much research to do. I have poked around ramchargercentral and the genIII forum here. If I do this I want to do it soon and not make it a five year project. Melbourne FL is not a big market, so shops are very limited.

Magnum, I agree, while I love old school small blocks they won't touch a 6.4 nor have the smooth idle, easy starting and relative good gas mileage.

Part of what makes the modern Hemi work so well is the OD trans. Without the OD, the gas mileage will probably not be much better (might be worse) then your current V8. On a truck, your looking at moving the existing trans crossmember back and drilling some holes, and having a driveshaft cut. A factory modern Hemi trans is a stronger trans then a standard 727. It also seems to me that the bolt pattern on the bell was different then a small block pattern, but that could be wrong.

When we did the 5.7 in my son's 57 Dodge wagon, we used a fuel tank and its in tank pump from a mid or late 90s S10 pickup. It will probably fit in the frame behind the rear axle on your truck, the tank is in the rear most foot well (behind the rear axle) of the wagon. We did have to add an adjustable fuel regulator with a return line back to the tank. The S10 tank and pump new cost about 1/3 of anything Dodge related and will do the job, with the addition of regulator and return line. We used the Hot Wire harness.

Its not a cheap swap, but don't cause more issues by trying do it on the cheap. Those corners you cut will come back to haunt you. Gene

You also use a complete pullout of a wrecked car.Engine, trans wiring harness,gas pedal,fuel tank.I have sold a couple charger r/t wrecks for gen 3 swaps.

Good info Gene, thank you. I have been looking at some low mileage yard ones. There aren't many local ones but keeping eyes open in Orlando area.

The LKQ pick your part yards in Orlando and Daytona Beach seem to have quite a few. You just might not know if or how well they run. I usually will make sure the engine turns over then pull the spark plugs and a valve cover for inspection. If it is bad though you can get another within 30 days or buy longer coverage.

Yes, thank you, sounds good. I used to go to all those yards in Bithlo/East Orlando. That area has the ones I was thinking of. Pretty convenient for me too.

I'd be wary of failed roller lifters on a used engine. It's a pretty common issue with the new Hemi if you look into it.

Personally I would build a Magnum 5.9. into a 408.Nice set of heads, or port those and it will move that truck along no problem.

I believe you are thinking of 5.7's. I've owned several 5.7's and we've had them at work, and my own have never developed an issue. A small percentage at work did, but I can also attest to the wrong oil being used. I know Public Works used whatever weight oil they had. I hated to see that.

I've not heard of issues on non mds 6.4's. I agree a stroked 408 with some compression and nice heads would move it very nicely. I have a 410 in my Diplomat and a nice set of Indy Heads, roller cam setup, and lots of other goodies, and it's a screamer. But, there's a bit of lope in the idle, and all of the old school stuff. While I do love it, I am looking for the old look that I love, but something different in this truck with the modern drivetrain with gobs of power.

The lifter taking out the cam is only on 09+ 5.7s as far as I have seen. Don't fall for the "MDS causes it" crap. I have seen it on plenty of 3/4 trucks without MDS as well as non-MDS lobes in 1/2 tons and cars. I actually have several flat cams in my shop scrap bin right now and only one bad lobe is on a MDS cylinder.

Let me just clarify, you don't find a lot of 6.4s but plenty of 5.7s that can certainly be stroked. If you sign up with them you can get alerts about specific vehicles emailed to you.

Yes, lots of 5.7's I'm sure but really not wanting to build anything. Really want drop-in and preferably new but a crashed hellcat with low miles is an option.

Thanks.

09+ or pre '09 you mean? The '09 and up got the Eagle Heads.

As I posted earlier in this thread I have a 5.7 in my 55 Dodge pickup. In 2013 I bought a wrecked 03 Ram 150 with 63000 miles on it and put the 03 engine and transmission in my 55. As stated before it wasn’t a difficult swap. 6 years and 50000 miles later it still runs like the day I put it in my 55. The only problem I have ever had with it was a failed cam sensor the fist year. I used a Hotwire harness for the install. Find a totaled vehicle with a 5.7 and go for it.

Tell us more about running a 5.7 with a GM computer.

Even the 03-08 truck 5.7 makes 100 HP more than the 360 magnum. An 09+ 5.7 makes 150 HP more. What do you got to do to get 150 HP out of a 5.9? Edelbrock heads, cam swap, headers, intake... without a major build up the 5.9 will be tapped out at that point. the money adds up either way. Me I would rather go through the hemi swap pains now and have tons of room to grow later easily. An eagle 5.7 motor can get a 6.4 SRT cam for cheap and get another 20-30HP without pulling the heads and another 20-30HP with long tube headers. I been clinging to my SB stuff for 16 years after the hemi came out and just gave up the fight and sold out all of it to build a 6.4 for my truck, probably dropping my motor in tomorrow and Friday.

Nothing against the 5.7, I own two now and have had two previous, and one 6.1. But if I'm going through this swap and not looking to build an engine, I'm going with the cubic inches. I CANNOT take on a build AND swap. "A man's got to know his limitations". Seriously, I can't handle both. I need a crate engine. All the other peripherals will be overwhelming enough for me.

The smallblock 727 transmission has the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the Gen III hemi except for a single bolt at the top. Nevertheless the 727 is a direct bolt on to the Gen III hemi bellhousing. Though it MUST be a smallblock 727 NOT a big block trans.
What is required to use the 727 is a shim. There are several options for this from aftermarket companies.

If anyone knows of a good shop within 200 miles of 32935 (Central Florida) that has the experience and know-how for this swap, and has lot's of praise, and I check it out and am confident, I'll drag my truck to them asap.

where does this shim go, and approximately how thick is it ?

It’s actually a spacer that makes up for the difference between the different automatic trans and aligns the crankshaft mounting bolts to the flex plate.

For info on bolting a Gen III hemi up to a 727 trans check out this thread over in “Gen III Hemi Tech” forum

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2496494/904-727-behind-a-5-7.html

In the early days of the Gen III hemi swaps there were many individuals that fabricated their own methods to bolt up the 727 trans. Now there several options available from the aftermarket. Here are links to some of the companies:

https://www.coperacingtrans.com/?product=gen-3-hemi-flex-plate-adapter-for-727-904

https://www.manciniracing.com/marageniiihe.html

https://www.bouchillonperformance.com/inc/sdetail/5237

thanks for the explanation and spacer examples. i'm not up on gen 3 engines, and most that are using them use the transmission that came with them or an A518/RH/RE transmission.

Yes, thanks C_B5!

I have my spiral notebook taking many notes from this thread and printing many things as well.