Floor pan sound deadener.

My Demon is back from paint, working on the assembly process.
I’m restoring the car mostly stock body/interior wise, but will have a hot small block, and at 51 years old, a little less noise and heat would be nice.
I’d like to use some sort of sound deadener under the carpet.
There are a lot of them out there, what is everyone using, and what kind of results do you have with it?
Tell me the good/bad etc.

Thanks all!

Wally.

fatmat.com
material called rattle trap.

Ive used it in several builds and highly recommend it

It's Pretty

Another vote for FatMat

May want to first reduce the heat and sound BEFORE it gets to floor, ie, run exhaust to back bumper, use SS plpe and heat wrap where most useful, use reflective radiant barrier on road side of floors, choice of muffler, use a crossover, get a bigger stereo, etc. None of that would be in lieu of sound deadener, but sure would improve the results.

I used Eastwood and Dyna Mat sound deadener, then added 1/4" of aircraft sound deadening closed cell foam on top of that

I've heard you can use sticky insulation from Lowe's/Home Depot that's for duct work. Not the fiberglass material, but something like dynamat stuff.

I believe it was Fat Mat that I used in the Sport Satellite . . .

One of the builds Garage Squad did, they used something from a hardware store that according to them was less than half the cost.



Tim

Think the Fat Mat stuff is much less than the Dynamat . . .

Agree with the replies about sourcing from the hardware store and saving money.

The rubber boot matting for house use is very easy to work with and affordable. The tar strip stuff works, it's what the OEM's are using and can be found at the big box stores. Or, you can order it from Amazon and give the courier guy a hernia. If you pull apart a new vehicle, the OEM's only have a strip here and there.......which brings up the next point: It is quite a science and there is more to it than just running that stuff everywhere. I tried it on my '02 Cummins to try to shut that 24 valve up: I pulled all the seats out and ran a heavy rubber matting right from the bottom of the dash to the bottom of the back window. It didn't make a bit of difference. My understanding is it's the actual shape/forming of the metal that has a lot to do with having a quiet interior.

Not trying to discourage you from trying, whatever you do will make it better.

Car looks great Wally, my favorite color to have a Demon in!

If you put the hardware store stuff in your car, be sure its Butte rather then asphalt based. The Asphalt based stuff can give off asphalt smells when it gets hot, probably not something you want to small all summer long.

I use a product called Noico I bought off Amazon. 36 Sq ft of the 50 mill stuff is what I use inside my hot rods, its butte based and costs around $67 delivered. Its as effective as Dynomat, easier to install, and about 1/2 the price, Gene

Has anyone had any issues with these products causing the molded carpet not to fit right?

All very good advice and very good points to bring up.
I was about to pull the trigger on the fat mat when the hardware store stuff came up.
I’ll look into that today for sure.
Thanks for the compliment Grizz. Black always looks good, but very hard to keep clean!
I appreciate all the help with this guys.

Wally.

Ive used either Fatmat or Dynomat in maybe 6 or 7 cars the past few years. Not one did it cause any carpet fit issues.

That’s very good information, thanks.
I looked into the duct insulation from Home Depot
It looks a little thick? (0.3125 of an inch) 5/16. Too thick?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reflect...ective-Insulation-Roll-BP48025/100052556

Thanks again all.

There are no magic bullets with this issue, the end result is based mainly on thickness, or weight, or some combination. More always being better regarding attenuation. Everything else is mainly marketing.

Is there a concern with the adhesive backed insulations like dynomat and moisture getting underneath? I've considered them too, but despite doing my best to seal my cars and keep them out of the rain, I will get caught in one and a wash is necessary now and then. I liked to be able to occasionally remove door sills and get my hand under everything and check for dampness.

I wonder are products like dynomat going to stop every bit of moisture from getting underneath?

Good question Larry, Thank you.
Another question........Does anyone put this stuff on the ceiling of their car under the headliner?
How about on the door skin?

Thanks again all!

Wally.

I have,
in maybe 3 or 4 cars Ive done. ( all but one were black vinyl tops cars )
It makes HUGE difference in nose resonance on the interior of the car. I put it on the insides of the doors and makes a big difference in how solid the door sounds when closing

I did a 1970 hemi cuda clone build several years ago and installed the rattle trap on just about every square inch of the interior ( even under the pkg tray board )
Car has aftermkt A/C and owner says it helps keep the car
A - very cool and
B - very quite on road trips

I cover the complete inside of my projects with the Noico. If its rolled down tight, I can't see water getting under it unless it sits under water for some time. You trim to fit with a utility knife, peal off the backing paper, stick into place and roll it flat. There is a noticeable difference in both the inside temp, and the inside sound level. Gene

Ironic Gene, just before I read your post about the Noico, I did a search on eBay and it came up.
Looks like a good quality product and very reasonable.
Great conversation on all of this, I appreciate it very much guys.

Wally.

I'm planning on putting some on the inside of the doors on my Dart so they sound more solid. I wonder how effective it would be on the floor though since my car is a convertible. I'm still going to have a lot of noise coming into the car from the convertible top.

When you install this material over the entire floor and firewall, are you still attaching the factory firewall insulation with the plastic pins? Or, are you just installing the plastic pins through the firewall without the insulation...just to retain the correct engine compartment look?

No, not really. Taking the case of being on the open road, no nearby buildings/bridges/etc, no, the only "noise" you will have come from above will be the lower frequencies, I say arbitrarily starting at 400hz? However, you would get those anyway with or without any roof/top, thru the windows/openings. Higher frequencies do not turn as well as the frequencies increase and they will simply go skyward after reflecting off the pavement. I could also make the case, it might actually be quieter (engine/exhaust) without a hard roof, in that a hard roof, will tend to reflect something back down into the interior any of noise reaching the underside of the roof. I am disregarding wind generated noise in the above discussion..

Any treatment of the underside of the roof is mainly to further deal with noise that has entered the car thru the floor and reflected back down, and to thermal insulate the roof.

edit If the roof is vibrating on its own due to say road vibrations, like a drum head, that is then its own source and should resolved on its own.

Back on page 1, JCC mentioned using SS exhaust pipe. I'm assuming he meant stainless steel exhaust pipe. Can someone explain why that is quieter?


I suspect most any form of insulation will reduce noise and heat in a car. A few decades back, I knew a guy who built an early 1970's Dodge custom van. He used fiberglass insulation that is typically used in building homes in the walls of the van. On the floor he had carpet with some kind of thick padding under it. He used some kind of performance mufflers that were fairly quiet, but the van definitely had a little rumble to it. (He had modified the 360.) I do not know all the details, but that van was surprisingly quiet inside and it would RUN!!

Maybe I'll lay down a piece somewhere and pour some water and wait, and peel back up (if I can) and see if it's damp underneath? Having moisture trapped underneath if water finds it's way into an old car scares me.

Very good idea.
How about on doors?
Should it go on the backside of the panel or do you try to squeeze it between the bracing directly to the inside of the door skin before the window and door mechanism is in?

The SS is only quieter IF it is wrapped, regular steel tubing cannot handle the heat well over long periods when wrapped. I don't believe it quoets it much anyway, but it will reduce the heat transfer issue.

It is wind noise that I'm talking about. Driving a hardtop with the windows down, the wind drowns out most other noise. Granted, it won't be THAT bad with the windows up and a convertible top but I'd say most of the noise will be from wind. Maybe not. I've never had a convertible before. I just remember driving a Wrangler on my honeymoon and the wind noise was bad. I'll probably put some on the floor but maybe it's not required to cover everything on a convert. I'd like to hear from someone with a convertible who could give a before/after comparison.

You could pull one of the plastic, rubber, floor plugs also to check for dampness also

A Comparison of exactly what? How insulating the floor of a car in a Convertible will reduce wind noise?

Wind noise is still an art outside of the OEM's, and our possible solutions are hit or miss, with so many factors involved its almost beyond practical discussion.

A comparison if insulating the floor of a convertible has any noticeable decrease in cabin noise. It's proven to be effective on a hard top. But if wind noise is THE major/overwhelming source of noise in a convertible, a completely covered floor might not do much. You might decrease the noise coming up from the road, but you can't hear that anyway because the wind noise is the major source

I think you stated the obvious, which I was just hesitant to do.

All good discussion guys, very much appreciated.
Still wondering about the doors.
Should it go on the backside of the panel or do you try to squeeze it between the bracing directly to the inside of the door skin before the window and door mechanism is in?

Thanks everyone!

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-0905-sound-deadener-and-insulation-installation/

Has anyone ever tried the Greatstuff insulation in spray can (windows and doors) that doesn't expand? in lower part of doors or around wheel wells. or hard to get too areas?
always wondered about the moisture.

Do a search on this forum and also search Google for how to insulate small aircraft. Those techniques are very informative and effective.

Adhesive butyl products like Dynamat Extreme and Fat mat are good at stopping panel resignation, which is good. The real secret to keeping noise and heat out of the cabin is to use a double foil sided padding to cocoon the entire interior. Be sure to seal all the seams with that foil ducting tape with the wax paper.

Foil is mostly marketing sizzle in these applications. To be effective it requires an air space/gap, and the reflective foil must face the offending heat source.

http://www.radiantbarrier.com/resources-articles-how-radiant-barrier-works-heat-gain-loss/

I guess if it's double foil sided then the foil will be facing the heat on way or the other.

Without the air gap, it doesn't matter which way the foil faces, as it reflects next to nothing.

FYI https://lizardskin.com/ Spray on sound deadener

Eastwood X mat is $80 for 19.7 sq. ft.
Fatmat rattle trap is $100for 36 sq. ft.
Noico is $68 for 36 sq. ft.
I found a product Kilmat. $58 for 36 sg. ft.
All are comparable thickness (80 mil)

Noico has a good report from Gene here, that’s what I’m going with.

NOW......Any tips or tricks or just regular advice on installation?

Thanks again everyone!

Trim it close to how / where you need it before removing the paper backing. Because once it sticks to the metal it doesn't like to be pulled back off . Don't ask me how I know

Good advice. Thank you. Must be a very strong adhesive backing, which is good!
I see in some pics guys using a roller to lay it down, does that work good?
Should all of the seems be taped?

The roller works great in wide open areas, but when things get a bit tight, the roller is a pita. The NOICO has an embossed raised pattern on the outside. Once in position, you are suppose to smooth out the embossed pattern until its smooth. The roller they sell works well, but it isn't smooth, so when your done, it isn't really smooth, but its easy to see what has been pressed into place. Pressing it into place is what makes it really stick. Once stuck and rolled tight, it requires a huge effort to move or remove it.

I made cardboard (think beverage containers) templates for nearly all the areas that required close fits, then transferred the templates onto the NOICO. If you split the vehicle into right and left sides, often the patterns will match up well by flipping them over. Be sure you have the pattern oriented with the correct side up for the side you are working on when you transfer the pattern to the NOICO (don't ask me how I know). You can cut the stuff with a utility knife and use a straight edge for straight cuts, or free hand for curves (takes some practice).

The NOICO can be repositioned after its lightly stuck in place, but it has to be lightly stuck at first. Once you know its in the proper location, you press it in tight then roll it on. In places its hard to roll, I've used the round end of a file handle to smooth it out. It does conform to curved areas very well. If in the process you should happen to have a fold in the material, you can cut through the outer backing (with a utility knife) and press it back over itself gently so you don't get the sticky stuff all over the outer backing.

It is suggested you wear nitrate gloves. The foil backing can have sharp edges once is cut, and you really don't want to get the sticky backing on your hands, I bought a box of 100 at HB for $5.99. I used several pairs of the gloves in installing (2) 36sq ft boxes. You can cut the stuff with a utility knife and a straight edge.

You want to be sure the metal you are sticking the NOICO to is clean and debris clean. I hit the underside of my 39 Truck cab with 80 grit on a DA, then wiped it down with a degreaser, and let that dry. Its much easier to deal with if your working in 60+ degree temps. It took me about 2 days to install the first box of 36 sq ft, the fitting takes longer then I thought it would.

One more thing, the NOICO comes with a silver backing (without advertising) and in black (also without advertising) for a couple bucks more for the 36 sq ft. They sell a roller with a wood handle and a steel drum that is pretty well made for another $10. I never tapped my edges, but I can see where it might be helpful. Gene

how much does the NOICO weigh ?

A lot less then a ton?!

2 things,
1) I don't build stuff with much concern about what it might weigh.
2) I'm not so good at guessing how much something weighs.

That said, I'd guess the 36 sq ft package is somewhere near 30 lbs. If I remember tomorrow, I will look to see if there is a weight stamp on the Amazon sticker on the box I still have here. Gene

Or put it on a bathroom scale

It is on track to be delivered tomorrow.
I’ll post what it says on the shipping label.

So if it’s that heavy, I might have to go on a diet????

How do you handle seams between sheets? It looks like each Noico sheet is 29x20. Do you just butt the sheets together and tape over the seams?

I am in this same boat so I am tuned in... Thanks for the price comparison chart...

The box I have here only has about 25% of the original content left, and there were no shipping weights listed, but as I thought about it, there was probably an outer box and it is long gone.
As far as the seams between sheets, I just over lapped the edge of the 1st sheet with the 2nd sheet by about 1/4" and rolled it down tight.

The NOICO is a product of the USSR. There is an American equivalent, but its real hard to get, often out of stock, and a lot more expensive. I tried several times to buy the USA product, but it was always back ordered, then wouldn't show up on line for a month or two, then within a week it was back ordered again. One would think if it sold out that fast, someone would up the production to sell more, but this has been going on for more then a year. The stuff from Russia is good stuff, and easily available. Gene

The box of Noico is 20 pounds.
I don’t think I’m going to worry about the little extra weight.
What you guys think?

This has all been a great discussion and learning experience for me.
Thanks all!

I used the lighter weight Dynamat on the front floors and tunnel, and the carpet kit already has the 1/2" jute glued to the carpet. I then used the Dyna mat under the rear seat, and 1/2" thick Boom Mat over it, glued with 3M Spray contact cement.

It is very quiet, and deduces the heat from the mufflers.

my 2 cents...

Mark

1. The greater weight of a material in this application rule of thumb indicates greater sound dampening, especially at lower frequencies, which means to me, heavier is better.
2. Any weight you are adding is almost at the lowest point of the car, and near the center, almost the most ideal place if one had to add weight
3. Sealing the seams is a "feel good" endeavor, there is nearly zero air movement to be concerned with, and the only sound one might be trapping by sealing is above the hearing range of maybe all but three people on this forum, and might have a downside, in that IF any water gets under the materiel, it will never escape without damaging the metal first, if tightly sealed

All good and valid points.

Certainly are all excellent points.
This has all been very good info for me, and I hope others.
I'll update as the process starts now that I have the material.
It will be a slow process of course as I had a hip replacement 4 weeks ago.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Thanks All!!

Wally.

A bit late to the post but, I have several customers with cars they have bought with insualtion that "DRIPS" through seams/ small openings etc in summertime temps even while just sitting in their garage.
We actually raised the carpet on a few to investigate removing the substance.The customers decided to live with the problem due to the anticipated removal cost. I can tell you it is foil backed on the top with some sort of black goo (tar?) on the bottom. I'm not sure what was used but I suspect it may have been something from the local home depot or a cheap substitute for the better known brands. With that being said, proceed with caution, cheap can sometimes cost more in the long run

That would be the asphalt based stuff. Some of the stuff you get from the home improvement stores are asphalt based. The asphalt breaks down around 125 degrees, which is too low for the interior of cars when the windows are rolled up, or the car is sitting in the sun in the summer. For at least a couple of years Eastwood sold some asphalt based isolation, I never heard how that worked out for the people that had bought it.
The good stuff is butte based. The NOICO stuff I posted about is Butte based, as is most of the stuff intended to be used in a automobile based project. Gene

UPDATE!!
Got the Noico and started the install.
I sprayed the floor down with brake cleaner, wiped it down, and blow dried it thoroughly.
It’s a little time consuming, but if you take your time and install it carefully - which I’ve had to because I had my hip replaced about a month ago.....so I just take my time.
A couple of things that really helps is a good seam roller and sharp razors to trim it.
All the advice really helped a bunch everyone!
Now a true test would be to have the car built and running without it, and then install it for a true before and after.

Nice work

Looks good! nice job. Gene