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Opinions on exhaust crossover

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/11/18 07:28 AM



What is the consensus about having an H-pipe, an X-pipe or just going with straight dual pipes and no crossover at all?

It seems without a crossover tube working on the underside of the drive train would be so much easier.

Any thoughts on this?
Thank you
Stu
Posted By: mgoblue9798

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/11/18 08:10 AM

There is nothing wrong with straight dual exhaust, but your are leaving some power on the table and will have a little noisier exhaust without an x or h. X is best if it is workable.
Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/11/18 12:27 PM

Personally I'm all for making my vehicles easier to work on rather than try to get every last ounce of performance. How much can you really use on a street car anyway?
Posted By: Locomotion

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/11/18 01:12 PM

I have a TTI X-pipe in my 3" full exhaust that ends at the rear end housing on my race cars. The "X" ends up at the end of the tailshaft and there is plenty of room to drop the trans pan for service. I had to "ding" the "X" to insure clearance to the driveshaft loop, but it did help performance a bit. The only down-side I can see with the "X" is that I have to drop the exhaust system to change the trans. Gotta watch the straight pipe routing whether you have an "X" or not.
Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/11/18 04:19 PM

Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Personally I'm all for making my vehicles easier to work on rather than try to get every last ounce of performance. How much can you really use on a street car anyway?


That was my thinking too, as i bought some of those chambered mufflers and will be redoing the exhaust system. The 3 inch H-pipe i have now hangs down and scrapes over speed bumps. So i was thinking of just going with straight dual pipes this time. I am going back to 2.5 pipes as well.

Stu
Posted By: furious70

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/11/18 04:47 PM

Engine masters on motortrendondemand tested, not enough difference in power for the hassle. Sound was a bit different.
Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/11/18 05:03 PM

Originally Posted By furious70
Engine masters on motortrendondemand tested, not enough difference in power for the hassle. Sound was a bit different.


Thank you for the input!
Posted By: larrymopar360

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/11/18 05:14 PM

I've never been able to notice a sound difference despite the claims, nor any seat of the pants dyno difference.
Posted By: StukaJU87

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/11/18 08:04 PM

How about running straight duals out the back....no mufflers? I currently have mufflers with no crossover and they sound great, but the drivers side has a loose baffle or something and rattles a bit.

Was thinking about having the muffler shop just replace the mufflers with pipe.
Posted By: crackedback

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/11/18 08:34 PM

Every car and combination is different.

Without testing each combo, it's a crapshoot as to whether one has benefits over the others.

Myron has the data and it works on his car.
Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/11/18 08:35 PM

C'mon Stu.

Side pipes with no crossover.

You know you want to..... wink
Posted By: Sunroofcuda

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/11/18 08:50 PM

Originally Posted By StukaJU87
How about running straight duals out the back....no mufflers? I currently have mufflers with no crossover and they sound great, but the drivers side has a loose baffle or something and rattles a bit.

Was thinking about having the muffler shop just replace the mufflers with pipe.


During exhaust experimentation with Viper development, they straight-piped one & lost about 30 HP & the engine temp increased also about 30 degrees. They let things cool down & installed some mufflers. Everything came back into normal range. For a street car, it's my opinion you need an expansion chamber in the system. Plus, straight pipes don't do ANY tuning for sound, nor do glasspacks. Stu, for what it's worth, on a dual exhaust I prefer an H-pipe vs. an X-pipe. The crossover should be .75 the diameter of the system. On a 2.5" dual, the crossover should be approx. 2" according to the math. Helps to equalize pressure between banks & mellows the sound a little.
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/11/18 09:09 PM

A key point is location of the crossover as well.
Posted By: StukaJU87

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/11/18 10:20 PM

Originally Posted By Sunroofcuda
Originally Posted By StukaJU87
How about running straight duals out the back....no mufflers? I currently have mufflers with no crossover and they sound great, but the drivers side has a loose baffle or something and rattles a bit.

Was thinking about having the muffler shop just replace the mufflers with pipe.


During exhaust experimentation with Viper development, they straight-piped one & lost about 30 HP & the engine temp increased also about 30 degrees. They let things cool down & installed some mufflers. Everything came back into normal range. For a street car, it's my opinion you need an expansion chamber in the system. Plus, straight pipes don't do ANY tuning for sound, nor do glasspacks. Stu, for what it's worth, on a dual exhaust I prefer an H-pipe vs. an X-pipe. The crossover should be .75 the diameter of the system. On a 2.5" dual, the crossover should be approx. 2" according to the math. Helps to equalize pressure between banks & mellows the sound a little.


Thank you Sunroofcuda, I will just have the muffler replaced.
Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/12/18 01:44 AM

[quote=Sunroofcuda]. Stu, for what it's worth, on a dual exhaust I prefer an H-pipe vs. an X-pipe. The crossover should be .75 the diameter of the system. On a 2.5" dual, the crossover should be approx. 2" according to the math. Helps to equalize pressure between banks & mellows the sound a little. [quote]

Now i have this 3 inch H-pipe with the glass-packs.

When i get your chambered exhaust i was going to dump the H-pipes and run just straight pipes and the chambered exhaust.

So you are recommending i go back to a smaller size diameter crossover, correct??

Sru

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Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/12/18 01:50 AM

An X-pipe will remove the typical 'stereo' exhaust pulses coming from the tubes. It will sound more like a modern V8-car.
The H-pipe retains some of that 'old' V8 muscle car sound better imo.
Posted By: Sunroofcuda

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/13/18 01:48 AM

Originally Posted By BigBlockMopar
An X-pipe will remove the typical 'stereo' exhaust pulses coming from the tubes. It will sound more like a modern V8-car.
The H-pipe retains some of that 'old' V8 muscle car sound better imo.



Agreed - I just like the way an H-pipe sounds better than an X. Stu, as far as textbook "proper" diameter, 2" would be optimum for the crossover. However, since you already have a crossover, I don't think it would be worth the time & trouble to change that out. Might make no difference at all from a performance standpoint.
Posted By: RoadRunnerLuva

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/13/18 04:39 AM

Doesn't an "H pipe" or crossover pipe also help give MORE low end torque
to the engine, as opposed to just using dual straight pipe? That is what I was schooled on, back in the day, for (street) cars.
Posted By: 383man

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/13/18 06:53 AM

Don't know if this link will work but if it does you can hear my exh when he goes to the back of my car. I use TTI 2" headers and the TTI full exh system with an X-pipe and Dyno-Max Ultra-Flow mufflers. Ron

https://www.facebook.com/moparmusclemag/videos/10155914655157792/
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/13/18 11:21 AM

Originally Posted By RoadRunnerLuva
Doesn't an "H pipe" or crossover pipe also help give MORE low end torque to the engine, as opposed to just using dual straight pipe? That is what I was schooled on, back in the day, for (street) cars.


An H or X was proven to make some extra torque over a straight pipe, but in general not quite worth the hassle by Freiburg/Dulcich/Westec Dyno in an Engine Master video on YouTube. (This was before they put every behind a pay-wall and hardly no-one gets to watch their stuff anymore.)

Found the video on DailyMotion instead:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5s8nr8

In short:

Straight pipe - Torque / Horsepower
366 / 363hp

H-pipe
370 / 361hp

X-pipe
370 / 362hp

Posted By: wingman

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/13/18 03:29 PM

I had an awful drone with an H.

Switched to an X and it disappeared--everything else was the same.

I know every car is different, so your mileage may vary. Just wanted to make the point that there is definitely a difference in the way the exhaust works between the two.
Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/13/18 10:47 PM

Originally Posted By wingman
I had an awful drone with an H.

Switched to an X and it disappeared--everything else was the same.

I know every car is different, so your mileage may vary. Just wanted to make the point that there is definitely a difference in the way the exhaust works between the two.


Interesting work

Thank you
Stu
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/13/18 11:05 PM

I have a H pipe on my 340 and it made noticeable positive performance difference verse my old exhaust without it. IMO Sounds better too with the H pipe.

My 440 car I went with a X pipe and I don't like the sound as much. I am not sure on the performance because I had nothing to compare against with the 440 car.

I vote for the H pipe on sound alone.
Posted By: Morty426

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/14/18 03:20 AM

Stu

Ditch the 3" and glass packs

Install a 2 1/2" with a 2" H pipe and put on some mufflers. It won't scrape and it will sound like it should.

Chambered pipe is too loud.

Morty
Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/14/18 04:56 AM

Originally Posted By Morty426
Stu

Ditch the 3" and glass packs

Install a 2 1/2" with a 2" H pipe and put on some mufflers. It won't scrape and it will sound like it should.

Chambered pipe is too loud.

Morty



Chambered pipes are on the way so i'm in for however they sound. I think with downsizing from 3" to 2.5" and all new pipes it will very good from the clips i have heard.
Stu wave
Posted By: Sunroofcuda

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/14/18 05:49 AM

Originally Posted By Morty426
Stu

Ditch the 3" and glass packs

Install a 2 1/2" with a 2" H pipe and put on some mufflers. It won't scrape and it will sound like it should.

Chambered pipe is too loud.

Morty



HaHa! Sound is purely subjective. Stu, they are loud, but if too loud you have plenty of room at the rear for 18" long packed resonators. Shipping tomorrow BTW - could not get them built in time for FedEx today.
Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/14/18 08:01 AM

Originally Posted By Sunroofcuda
Originally Posted By StukaJU87
How about running straight duals out the back....no mufflers? I currently have mufflers with no crossover and they sound great, but the drivers side has a loose baffle or something and rattles a bit.

Was thinking about having the muffler shop just replace the mufflers with pipe.


During exhaust experimentation with Viper development, they straight-piped one & lost about 30 HP & the engine temp increased also about 30 degrees. They let things cool down & installed some mufflers. Everything came back into normal range. For a street car, it's my opinion you need an expansion chamber in the system. Plus, straight pipes don't do ANY tuning for sound, nor do glasspacks. Stu, for what it's worth, on a dual exhaust I prefer an H-pipe vs. an X-pipe. The crossover should be .75 the diameter of the system. On a 2.5" dual, the crossover should be approx. 2" according to the math. Helps to equalize pressure between banks & mellows the sound a little.


Friend has owned 6-7 Vipers, starting from when they first came out in '91- we probably tried at least a dozen different exhaust combinations - side pipes, h and x pipes, duals, turbo, chambered mufflers, etc and never could come up with anything that sounded worth a crap. Same thing with an SRT-10 truck. Can't stand the sound of them.
Posted By: 360view

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/14/18 01:19 PM

Should the mufflers on either side really be identical?

Firing order on the two banks of a V8 is not identical.
So sound in pipes is not identical.....

Some years ago after reading about why people go to the trouble of 180 degree headers,

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/180-degree-headers-help-v8s-low-midrange-torque/

It occurred to me that same reasoning would lead you to conclude that the two sides of duals should have different mufflers and different tailpipe lengths to avoid drones.

An X-pipe in front of mufflers would partially equalize pulses handled by identical mufflers.

Just my 2 cents....
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/14/18 02:37 PM

X makes the most power, but sounds higher pitched and I've never cared for it...all personal taste though.

H is better than true duals for power and sounds the best of the 3 options. Deeper and smoother sound over true duals.

Having a crossover does present a challenge if you need to pull the trans and have a fully welded system. My advice is to use some V band or bolt together flanges near the mufflers so you can drop the headpipes out the way.
Posted By: Sunroofcuda

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/14/18 05:34 PM

Originally Posted By Evil Spirit
Originally Posted By Sunroofcuda
Originally Posted By StukaJU87
How about running straight duals out the back....no mufflers? I currently have mufflers with no crossover and they sound great, but the drivers side has a loose baffle or something and rattles a bit.

Was thinking about having the muffler shop just replace the mufflers with pipe.


During exhaust experimentation with Viper development, they straight-piped one & lost about 30 HP & the engine temp increased also about 30 degrees. They let things cool down & installed some mufflers. Everything came back into normal range. For a street car, it's my opinion you need an expansion chamber in the system. Plus, straight pipes don't do ANY tuning for sound, nor do glasspacks. Stu, for what it's worth, on a dual exhaust I prefer an H-pipe vs. an X-pipe. The crossover should be .75 the diameter of the system. On a 2.5" dual, the crossover should be approx. 2" according to the math. Helps to equalize pressure between banks & mellows the sound a little.


Friend has owned 6-7 Vipers, starting from when they first came out in '91- we probably tried at least a dozen different exhaust combinations - side pipes, h and x pipes, duals, turbo, chambered mufflers, etc and never could come up with anything that sounded worth a crap. Same thing with an SRT-10 truck. Can't stand the sound of them.


One of my customers produced these videos - they are excellent! I thought there were two Vipers that sounded good in these - what do you think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6plghgsJcg

Part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwRZEG9PVf4
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/14/18 08:29 PM

Stu.....how many different exhaust systems has your runner had while you've owned it?
Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Opinions on exhaust crossover - 08/14/18 10:05 PM

Originally Posted By Pacnorthcuda
Stu.....how many different exhaust systems has your runner had while you've owned it?



Good question.
#1 20 years ago when i got the road runner it had stock manifolds and rotted out turbo mufflers system and had to go.

#2 I added TTI headers with a Craigslist sale find of a full 3 inch pipe and Dyno Max mufflers for $100 but it fit a 65 B-body. My muffler shop buddy redid them to fit and it sounded great but was too low and kept tearing up the driveway.

#3 Had my muffler buddy make the infamous side-pipe system. That was my favorite and most fun of all, but i got so much grief and bitching from "certain people" that i could not take it and took them off. That sucked as i loved the sound they made!!

#4 Took the 36" glass packs from the side pipes and used them to make the system i have on it now. Sounds nice but the pipes and glass packs have been welded on so many times they are all rusted and look like hell.

#5 My plan is take it all off and dump it all.

Then start all over with the chambered mufflers and new aluminized pipes and maybe even ceramic coat everything to keep it looking nice forever. My buddy is offering to do all the labor for free and see if he can get his shop to give me all the pipes for free too. I would only have to supply the chambered mufflers. They would use my car to show off their work on their website and at shows as compensation for all the free stuff.

That sounded good to me!!

Stu
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