Moparts
Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad
Posted By: AHall
Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:23 AM
Well not only did I do the carb swap this week I swapped the radiators. I took the stock one and replaced it with an AFCO 26” x 18.5” cross-flow Aluminum radiator with a massive puller fan that stays on anytime the car has the key on. Only issue was the radiator cap- it didnt come with one so i took the old one off the old radiator and put it on the new radiator. (Doesnt fit, 16 lb and I need a 20 lb) Anyway, ran it down the freeway, did well, exited, sat in traffic 5-10 mins (stop-go) and the needle got over to the "H". I weasled out of traffic and got moving again and it went back down. Man, now im back to square one. What else could be causing this? What degree thermostat should i be running? Anything else I can do to try and keep it cool?
Posted By: goldmember
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:38 AM
So you don't have a gauge on it to know what the ACTUAL temp is?
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:52 AM
The difference from the freeway to sitting in traffic is air speed(fan) & water pump speed. Most likely to be air speed . What do you have for a shroud/fan. What water pump?
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:54 AM
So I take it you are using an electric puller fan? Move the puller to the front and use it as a pusher and put it on a thermostatically controlled switch. Then add in a stock type fixed fan to your motor and your problems will go away. A fixed fan flows a decent amount of air at idle, and with the help of a pusher the two should not have any problem cooling that motor.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:55 AM
Quote:
So you don't have a gauge on it to know what the ACTUAL temp is?
No, interior is 100% stock/factory. Never got an actual temp gauge, I guess that is where I should start. I wanted to keep it as factory appearing as possible but I figure its time to get a new aftermarket gauge.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:56 AM
Quote:
The difference from the freeway to sitting in traffic is air speed(fan) & water pump speed. Most likely to be air speed . What do you have for a shroud/fan. What water pump?
No shrould, just aftermarket puller fan 3000 CFM i believe.
Unsure about the water pump.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:57 AM
Quote:
So I take it you are using an electric puller fan? Move the puller to the front and use it as a pusher and put it on a thermostatically controlled switch. Then add in a stock type fixed fan to your motor and your problems will go away. A fixed fan flows a decent amount of air at idle, and with the help of a pusher the two should not have any problem cooling that motor.
Well I cant do that b/c I have the AC condenser and the tranny cooler in the front of the radiator.
Let me go snap a few pics for you guys---
Posted By: goldmember
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:03 AM
You don't even need a gauge in the car. Use a cooking thermometer in the radiator inlet ,let the car idle until the gauge reads hot and see how hot it is. Easy to find out if you have a real problem or not.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:10 AM
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:18 AM
if it's the water pump==what aftermarket pump would you go with on a 440ci motor?
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:37 AM
edelbrock or milodon water pump. I think that elec fan is not moving enough air especially with all the hardware in front of the radiator.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:45 AM
Quote:
edelbrock or milodon water pump. I think that elec fan is not moving enough air especially with all the hardware in front of the radiator.
with how it sits now-- what would you do? get a better fan setup? dual fans? move the condensor and tranny cooler?
Right now im looking at replacing the water pump and thermostat to a 160. Im also going to get the correct radiator cap Monday.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:47 AM
Quote:
edelbrock or milodon water pump. I think that elec fan is not moving enough air especially with all the hardware in front of the radiator.
is this the correct Edelbrock?
http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/8814/10002/-1
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:53 AM
You need at least a 180* stat. The stat doesn't do anything but bring the engine up to it's rated temp. Once it's open it doesn't effect the temp. I would go back to a factory fan, shroud and stock water pump set up that has worked for a lot of 440 set ups for a long time.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:55 AM
All this nonsense about "puller and pusher." There is ONLY ONE WAY that air should ever go through a CAR radiator, and that is from front (of the radiator) to back.
MAKE SURE the fan is the correct type and is turning the correct direction. You should be able to see this by looking at the fan blades. The will be "cupped" on one side, and this is the side that they should "pull" to (Blades are like wings--they are more efficient in one direction than the other) Some fans will change direction just by changing the wiring polarity, and they will NOT WORK WELL when reversed!!!!
I know nothing of the track record of the specific fan you have, it simply may not be enough
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 04:00 AM
You know it'd sure be easier if a good aftermarket W/P took care of this as the W/P would be a much easier install. Also I'd get a high flow 180 stat( drill a 1/16" hole in it for easy fillup). 160 is way too cool ex for a drag racer(& you are way above 160 degrees). The A/C condenser & trans cooler have to stay. I do not have the last word on fan advice but the old standby of a properly spaced(into the shroud) thermal clutch fan would be what I would do. there's just not enough air going thru the rad fins. EDIT yes that is the correct pump though I would check milodon & see if their pump is cheaper.
Posted By: gch
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 04:31 AM
I use the mp fan and thermal clutch setup with a factory shroud and water pump for an a/c car.Never runs over 180 unless idling in the summer heat for an extended period of time.
Have you verified your ignition timing?Retarded timing can contribute to high temps
If I had to guess I would say your fan is either not pulling air or not pulling enough air.Make sure you clean the fins on your condenser as well to get the maximum amount of air through it.
Posted By: Publicbottle
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 04:38 AM
Quote:
All this nonsense about "puller and pusher." There is ONLY ONE WAY that air should ever go through a CAR radiator, and that is from front (of the radiator) to back.
MAKE SURE the fan is the correct type and is turning the correct direction. You should be able to see this by looking at the fan blades. The will be "cupped" on one side, and this is the side that they should "pull" to (Blades are like wings--they are more efficient in one direction than the other) Some fans will change direction just by changing the wiring polarity, and they will NOT WORK WELL when reversed!!!!
I know nothing of the track record of the specific fan you have, it simply may not be enough
Or a simple test would be have the car running at idle and take a piece of paper and put it on the front of the rad and the fan drawing air in through the rad should make the paper stick.
I have the exact same AFCO set up as you for my 340 challenger, i dont have the car running yet but i am following this thread closely and i am waiting to hear what the fix is........
TK
Posted By: boydsdodge
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 04:39 AM
How old is the engine? as in is it the original build?
Also check to make sure that you really have an A/C water pump, there is a difference and what I found was that when you order an A/C pump most parts suppliers will supersede the A/C pump and send what ever and it will most likely be a non A/C pump. The factory service manual will have the specs of your pump impeller that you need.
I went thru a lot of hassle with my big block cooling when I found it to be the block was full of crap, I used the Mopar clutch fan with factory shroud A/C pump and flushed block, that car never bothered me again.
It would run at a consistent temp in all traffic.
My engine was a factory original with 70,000 miles in great shape cept for all the grud.
Posted By: 69L78Nova
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 04:40 AM
Put a thermal clutch fan on it with a shroud. Half the time, electric fans are garbage on the street. The extremely minimal power loss required to run a clutch fan is far easier to live with than overheating the engine. Run a viscous fan with a shroud.
Posted By: dragaddict
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 06:05 AM
Similar prob with 440 in a 69 Coronet. Moved the trans cooler closer to the grill. Stacked like you have them added to high heat area with too much flow restriction. I had the headers thermal coated inside and out to kill a bunch of under hood temps. Steel hood had a pair of Superbee scoops mounted when we got the car so I used a hole saw to let them move a little cool air thru the engine compartment. I believe these cars have such under hood high temps that it becomes too difficult to dump temperature from the radiator into a compartment that has a higher temp. Same radiator as before but much better manners.
Posted By: DirectSubjection
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 06:24 AM
You did a great job plumbing that trans cooler, but I'm thinking with all the space those cars have up front move it a ways forward with some fabbed brackets then put your electric fan on the condenser pushing. Add a good mechanical fan onto the motor with the proper shroud and see.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 06:44 AM
I run a 22" afco rad on my 440 with a 4-blade fixed fan(no clutch, no shroud) with a stock replacement non-a/c water pump. I can sit in traffic all day and be fine. Underhood temps do get HOT but coolant temp stays in check.
I know there's nothing you can do about it easily, but that a/c condensor has got to be just terrible for rad air flow. The trans cooler not as big of a deal because it's small.
That's a nice looking electric fan/shroud there, but at idle it's likely not flowing enough air. Water pump speed is also low near idle so they both go hand in hand.
Posted By: jbc426
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 08:26 AM
Did it run hot like this in traffic before you swapped the radiator? Did you ever put the correct radiator cap on it? Verify that the electric fan you have is spinning the correct way when on.
A lot of cheap fans spin well when there is no "load" on them, but fail misirably when they have to pull air through any type of restictive set-up. You do have what looks like a well-made, tightly sealed shroud. Either switch to a good factory type electric fan (there's a guy on this site that sells a nice big GM fan with shroud), or get yourself a high flow 16" Spahl fan or the dual 12 inch Spahl fan/shroud set-up with the good Spahl controller. (It will suck the chrome of a trailer hitch.); OR fit the factory stock/style thermal fan and shroud back on it. They move massive amounts of air too.
Posted By: BigBlockMopar
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 11:47 AM
Quote:
Quote:
So you don't have a gauge on it to know what the ACTUAL temp is?
No, interior is 100% stock/factory. Never got an actual temp gauge, I guess that is where I should start. I wanted to keep it as factory appearing as possible but I figure its time to get a new aftermarket gauge.
Since you don't care for originality under the hood why not just mount a watertemp guage there, which you can check once in a while when your dashgauge shows Hot again?
Or, just keep pouring money into fixing a possible cooling-problem which might not even exist perhaps. 
Where's your ignition timing set at idle?
Posted By: cogen80
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 12:20 PM
you need a real temp gauge in that car somewhere. that way you know exactly what is going on. even if you install one temporarily.
Posted By: 62maxwgn
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 12:55 PM
Quote:
You need at least a 180* stat. The stat doesn't do anything but bring the engine up to it's rated temp. Once it's open it doesn't effect the temp. I would go back to a factory fan, shroud and stock water pump set up that has worked for a lot of 440 set ups for a long time.
This makes more sense than anything,they worked when new.Nothing had more coolers and accessories than police packages and half of those idled more than they ran on the highway.We seem to have a passion in this country to keep trying to fix things that work.It's everywhere,just look around.Also,find a 6 blade a/c factory pump,you don't need an aftermarket. 
Posted By: ahy
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 01:25 PM
It looks like you have a super radiator. Also I agree with comments that hot at idle and cool when running usually indicates lack of air flow.
Most aftermarket electric fans are sold and intended for supplemental air flow only - they don't move enough air to be the primary cooling source. There are some well engineered OE setups on newer cars... mostly mild 4 cyl or V6. Higher power setups - Durango's, Pickups, Jeeps - still use an engine driven fan. If you found a really big aftermarket fan it would cost several hundred dollars and suck your stock style alternator and battery dry at idle. You would be into a couple hundred dollars more to upgrade the charging system.
The thermal clutch fan worked well on these cars originally and still does. Here's a setup that has worked well for me on a 496 B with AC.
Radiator: High capacity aluminum
Fan: MP 5 blade thermal clutch fan
Shroud
Water Pump: MP high volume, slightly overdriven (6.25" drive pulley, about 5" fan puley)
Thermostat: 180 high flow Mr Gasket
With extended idling in hot weather and AC running it gets up to 185 or 190. I had a higher capacity 7 blade fan as backup when I hooked up the AC but didn't need it.
Posted By: ToddP
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:20 PM
What is the ignition timing set at idle?
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:23 PM
Quote:
You know it'd sure be easier if a good aftermarket W/P took care of this as the W/P would be a much easier install. Also I'd get a high flow 180 stat( drill a 1/16" hole in it for easy fillup). 160 is way too cool ex for a drag racer(& you are way above 160 degrees). The A/C condenser & trans cooler have to stay. I do not have the last word on fan advice but the old standby of a properly spaced(into the shroud) thermal clutch fan would be what I would do. there's just not enough air going thru the rad fins. EDIT yes that is the correct pump though I would check milodon & see if their pump is cheaper.
What is W/P?
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:25 PM
Quote:
Put a thermal clutch fan on it with a shroud. Half the time, electric fans are garbage on the street. The extremely minimal power loss required to run a clutch fan is far easier to live with than overheating the engine. Run a viscous fan with a shroud.
What is a thermal clutch fan?
What is the best # of blades to run for a setup like this?
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:29 PM
Quote:
Did it run hot like this in traffic before you swapped the radiator? Did you ever put the correct radiator cap on it? Verify that the electric fan you have is spinning the correct way when on.
A lot of cheap fans spin well when there is no "load" on them, but fail misirably when they have to pull air through any type of restictive set-up. You do have what looks like a well-made, tightly sealed shroud. Either switch to a good factory type electric fan (there's a guy on this site that sells a nice big GM fan with shroud), or get yourself a high flow 16" Spahl fan or the dual 12 inch Spahl fan/shroud set-up with the good Spahl controller. (It will suck the chrome of a trailer hitch.); OR fit the factory stock/style thermal fan and shroud back on it. They move massive amounts of air too.
Car did what it's doing now, ran fine driving, if i stop in traffic, creeped up.
I havent gotten the correct radiator cap yet as AFCO is closed this weekend.
Im wondering if there is some way I can put a PUSHER fan on the front and put the stock setup on the backside like it was. 
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:32 PM
how many CFM does this one move?
http://www.spalusa.com/store/main.aspx?p=itemdetail&item=30102130Id like to find a PUSHER fan and then a PULLER and see how that works.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:34 PM
Quote:
you need a real temp gauge in that car somewhere. that way you know exactly what is going on. even if you install one temporarily.
Im going to buy one and install one today.
Question-- do I need a 160 or 180 thermostat?
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:36 PM
Quote:
What is the ignition timing set at idle?
I dont know. How can I find that out?
Posted By: Scamp408
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:36 PM
what kind of fan is that? Some fan companies rate their fans falsely .Ask me how I know .Also I know you just bought a new rad but it sounds small.I have a 27-3/4 x 19 in the scamp.I would look at the fan post up some specs.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:37 PM
Quote:
Radiator: High capacity aluminum
Fan: MP 5 blade thermal clutch fan
Shroud
Water Pump: MP high volume, slightly overdriven (6.25" drive pulley, about 5" fan puley)
Thermostat: 180 high flow Mr Gasket
I think that is what im going to try and do. Go back as much to factory setup as possible.
With a fan like that one- can a puller be reversed somehow and installed on the front as a pusher?
Posted By: Scamp408
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:40 PM
Some fans cant be reversed .I use the spal the best I have seen.The chevy hhr fan is nice but draws alot of amps.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:43 PM
Should I just take the A/C condesor off? I NEVER have even turned the A/C on. Yes, it's an original A/C car but I never use it, windows always down.
Posted By: Mopar73340
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:49 PM
When you go back to the stock setup, make sure the clutch is GOOD. You said it was doing the heating up at idle before you switched to the electric setup which indicates lack of air movemant at idle which almost always means the clutch was bad.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 02:54 PM
Quote:
When you go back to the stock setup, make sure the clutch is GOOD. You said it was doing the heating up at idle before you switched to the electric setup which indicates lack of air movemant at idle which almost always means the clutch was bad.
it didnt have a clutch previously.
Posted By: gch
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:21 PM
Find some local mopar guys to hang with.Or even some hot rod chevy or ford guys that are familiar with tuning engines.Ask around.Check some speed shops or engine builders around.Finding someone with some experience who is willing to teach you some of the basics and patient enough to take the time to do it.It is ok to say I don't know or understand.That is how you learn.
You need a quality timing light for starters.Disconnect the vacuum line running to the distributor(if you have one)and plug it.Point the timing light at the timing marker on your harmonic balancer.Have someone rev the car up to 3000rpm in park and see how many degrees show.Your total timing should be around 36 degrees.After that you check initial at idle.More is better up to 16-18 degrees.You may have to have someone recurve the distributor to get there but at least 12 is a good start.Hope this helps.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:22 PM
thanks GCH.
Hopefully will meet some fellow mopar guys at the shows this spring.
Posted By: ahy
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:23 PM
A thermal clutch fan is a belt driven fan mounted on the water pump. It has a thermal clutch that engages the fan when hot and disengages when cool. Mancini sells them. Pic attached.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:35 PM
Where are you in Texas? You check timing with a timing light with the distributor vacuum line disconnected and plugged.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:47 PM
Quote:
A thermal clutch fan is a belt driven fan mounted on the water pump. It has a thermal clutch that engages the fan when hot and disengages when cool. Mancini sells them. Pic attached.
so this is the one id need?
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/vifanpa.html
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:47 PM
Quote:
Where are you in Texas? You check timing with a timing light with the distributor vacuum line disconnected and plugged.
Im in Flower Mound-5 mins north of DFW Airport.
No, I havent check timing or vacuum, im a newb still learning.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:48 PM
Please read my reply to your other post before you go running off to spend money needlessly or for the wrong things
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:51 PM
Quote:
Please read my reply to your other post before you go running off to spend money needlessly or for the wrong things.
I did and replied your post.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 03:58 PM
I live in Grand Prairie about 5 minutes south of the airport and would be glad to help you with and teach you the hands on stuff. I'm retired so I am available most days. I've been a mechanic for over 40 years so I believe I can get you straightened out. There is a large Mopar club that would be glad to have you join us. CowtownMopars. Here's a link to our site.
http://www.cowtownmopars.com/. We average 150 members. We have a race team and a show team. We do cruises and picnics, hold a yearly toy run and generally do a lot of Mopar realated stuff. Our meetings are once a month at Billy Bob's in the stockyards.
My email is,
stumpy383@hotmail.com
Posted By: MMiller
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 04:14 PM
Get an infared thermometer. You can buy them for not much at any auto parts store. You can just point and get the temp of anything with this tool. It is money well spent, as you will use it more then you will ever believe. Start the car up in your driveway, let it idle. Check the upper radiator hose temp and the lower radiator hose temp. Let it warm up and keep checking the temp. The upper radiator hose should be warmer then the lower radiator hose. When the gauge in the dash shows "H" find the upper radiator hose temp and then report back to us. Hot water goes in the top of the rad and cooler water comes out the bottom.
This needs to be the first step, before any more money is spent.
FWIW, I run a warmed over 440 in a 4X4 truck with junkyard electric fan. Idling around the timber in the hot, humid midwest, and it does not over heat(90-100* days with 90-100% humidity). Pound it through the mud, idle down the trail, bounce it off 6000 rpms pulling on stuck trucks, and the electric fan cool it fine. I don't have a rad as nice as yours or shrouded like your fan is. You should be in good shape radiator wise, unless the t-stat is sticking, or the gauge is off. I strongly persuade you to troubleshoot before dumping more money.
Michael
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 04:57 PM
A lot of this has already been covered, but here goes.
Electric fan companies severely overate their products cooling abilities. Once they have run for a while they can severely reduce your voltage by draining the battery, making them run even slower. To keep up, you need an alternater that will do at least 85 amps AT IDLE. If your voltage is getting down to the 12 volt range, the fan capacity tanks huge, at you heat up very quickly.
The best setup I have found is the MP clutch fan with shroud, run at at AC waterpump speed (1.3 times engine speed) and I have a very hard time keeping the TT340 cool at low speeds. This setup works all the time without issue.
I have found that aluminum radiators tend to have much higher cooling capacity, but they require significantly more airflow to work. At idle, I found my old 4 core cooled better than the Griffin, until I greatly increased airflow. I also noticed that the Griffin would drop the temp back to thermostat much quicker than the 4 core once the car was moving.
I think you would be best with the original radiator, clutch fan, shroud, AC pulleys and pump speed, and the CORRECT waterpump for AC.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 05:17 PM
how far away is the fan? are you running a shroud?
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 05:44 PM
Quote:
how far away is the fan? are you running a shroud?
I am going to Oreillys today to get that temp gun to start trouble shooting these issues. First things first- should I run a 160 or 180 thermostat? Fyi the fan and shroud are mounted right on the backside of the radiator.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 06:39 PM
absolutely a 180 & W/P means water pump. I know it sounds backwards to put in a hotter stat into an eng that has overheating issues but trust us on this.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 07:00 PM
ok about to head down to o'reillys.
Man I wanted to put a PUSHER fan in front of the radiator but that condensor is just too close. I wanted to move it forward but it sits in a lip at the bottom so that cant be done.Hmmmm.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 07:35 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Radiator: High capacity aluminum
Fan: MP 5 blade thermal clutch fan
Shroud
Water Pump: MP high volume, slightly overdriven (6.25" drive pulley, about 5" fan puley)
Thermostat: 180 high flow Mr Gasket
I think that is what im going to try and do. Go back as much to factory setup as possible.
With a fan like that one- can a puller be reversed somehow and installed on the front as a pusher?
You need to re-read my post. Any fan blade is curved to be efficienct in one direction. If you turn it around and reverse the motor, the blades are not working against the efficienct part of their curve. The concave ("cupped") curve pulls air toward you as you look at the cup side of the blades The only way you could reversed the same fan assembly from pusher to pull is IF you could physically reverse the blade on the motor as well as turn the motor around and reverse it.
I would agree that it sounds "probably" like too little air. I don't know why you can't check the timing--all you need is a timing light
Putting in much of a colder stat won't help. I would not go below 180, and all of these cars were designed to run from the factory with 190 stats.
I'd say if you can go to a stock fan and shroud
Posted By: ahy
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 08:26 PM
Quote:
Quote:
A thermal clutch fan is a belt driven fan mounted on the water pump. It has a thermal clutch that engages the fan when hot and disengages when cool. Mancini sells them. Pic attached.
so this is the one id need?
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/vifanpa.html
That's the one. Works great for me. It will need a shroud - it may be possible to adapt the shroud from the original radiator or you'll have to get one made.
I do agree with previous posts on checking timing and idle mixture first. Too little advance or a lean idle can make it run hotter.
Posted By: bboogieart
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 08:51 PM
Quote:
I live in Grand Prairie about 5 minutes south of the airport and would be glad to help you with and teach you the hands on stuff. I'm retired so I am available most days. I've been a mechanic for over 40 years so I believe I can get you straightened out.
Now that is right fine offer.
Here you go buddy problem solved. Hold on to your money till you get the right info.
Again nice car and good luck.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 08:52 PM
How was the electric fan set up to come on at what temp?
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 09:08 PM
Quote:
How was the electric fan set up to come on at what temp?
got it wired to run anytime the car is on.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 09:26 PM
I had same problem.Have a 69 gtx with air .Seems like your fan is not pulling enough air .How many amps is it pulling and looks like you have a stock altenator.Ended up getting a hhr fan solved the problem.After market fans don't pull as much air as a factory fan.Do a search on here for electric fans.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 11:42 PM
Ok, I just got back from 2 hours of working on the car. Oreillys didnt have a timing gun or vacuum gauge (go figure) so I got the 3 gauge pod. I hooked up the voltage meter and man my alternator is kicking some amperage out. (14)
I started the car, took a piece of paper and put it down in front of the radiator behind the a/c condensor and boy did it suck it right to the radiator. I then put my hand behind the radiator and that fan is sucking HARD! ALOT of air is being pulled out of the radiator-that is for sure.
I did put a 180 degree thermostat in there today as well.
I fired it up after idling there for about 5 minutes and left the neighborhood and got out on the highway. I drove about 6 miles before turning around. I knew immediately when the thermostat opened because it gradually climbed, then all of the sudden jumped a bit- then came back over. Good news was it just sat there the whole time.
I exited and came back thru a neighborhood about 6.5 miles, doing 30 mph and coming to alot of stop signs and no issues whatsoever. Now granted it's 69 degrees outside, that could be playing a huge part but as of that 15-20 min trip no issues whatsoever.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/22/09 11:54 PM
Another question if you guys dont mind me asking--
1) Where do I install the oil line for the new autometer oil gauge I just purchased?
2) Where do I install the long probe at the end of the line on the new temperature gauge?
Ive looked all over the engine block and a bit perplexed. (please have mercy on me, im learning here guys--but do appreciate all the help
)
EDIT- Instructions said install both into the engine block.
Also, how do i get this nut thru the firewall?
Posted By: beepsalot
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/23/09 12:28 AM
to get the lines thru the firewall, use the oval plug just below and left of the steering column, it is the hole that the clutch pushrod would go thru if it was a four gear. you can use any of the bigger holes on the water pump housing,. you will have to use the adapters in the kit. the iol line will hook up to the back of the block. look back there and you will see the electric sending unit, the is another plug on the back, at opposite angle from the sending unit. again, use the adapters. you can pm me with anyquestions. beeps
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/23/09 12:39 AM
Quote:
to get the lines thru the firewall, use the oval plug just below and left of the steering column, it is the hole that the clutch pushrod would go thru if it was a four gear. you can use any of the bigger holes on the water pump housing,. you will have to use the adapters in the kit. the iol line will hook up to the back of the block. look back there and you will see the electric sending unit, the is another plug on the back, at opposite angle from the sending unit. again, use the adapters. you can pm me with anyquestions. beeps
wow, thanks for the info. Here are some pics I snapped of the area---
Is that where I would input the oil unit?
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/23/09 01:46 AM
Quote:
to get the lines thru the firewall, use the oval plug just below and left of the steering column, it is the hole that the clutch pushrod would go thru if it was a four gear. you can use any of the bigger holes on the water pump housing,. you will have to use the adapters in the kit. the iol line will hook up to the back of the block. look back there and you will see the electric sending unit, the is another plug on the back, at opposite angle from the sending unit. again, use the adapters. you can pm me with anyquestions. beeps
plug opposite from sending until remove use that hole
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/23/09 03:24 AM
other than the external gauge addition the only thing that you have changed so far is the stat from a 160 to a 180, correct?. & your temp is OK so far
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/23/09 08:23 AM
Quote:
other than the external gauge addition the only thing that you have changed so far is the stat from a 160 to a 180, correct?. & your temp is OK so far
Yes, did ok for that 20 min stint. Only thing is, temp was around 65-70 today, no where near the 100 degrees of true test.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/23/09 04:17 PM
Outdoor temp will make a huge difference. A beat stock 318 rad was enough to cool my 440 when it was cool outside, but nowhere near enough rad when the summer temps hit.
Posted By: ademon
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/23/09 05:38 PM
May have been said already, but i would hook a thermostatic switch to your fan, so it does not run when at higher speeds, your probably blocking air flow with it running at hwy speed, and will burn it up quick,
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 02/23/09 05:44 PM
Quote:
I did put a 180 degree thermostat in there today as well.
What was in it before ??
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 02/23/09 05:47 PM
Quote:
Quote:
to get the lines thru the firewall, use the oval plug just below and left of the steering column, it is the hole that the clutch pushrod would go thru if it was a four gear. you can use any of the bigger holes on the water pump housing,. you will have to use the adapters in the kit. the iol line will hook up to the back of the block. look back there and you will see the electric sending unit, the is another plug on the back, at opposite angle from the sending unit. again, use the adapters. you can pm me with anyquestions. beeps
wow, thanks for the info. Here are some pics I snapped of the area---
Is that where I would input the oil unit?
There is another plugged hole back there , you could put the gauge in that hole .
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 02/24/09 12:20 AM
found out today my puller fan pulls 2200 CFM.
Got the correct radiator cap tonight.
Posted By: B9ChargerSE440
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/24/09 01:20 AM
I was having the same problem with my 72 but i was overheating in the streets and the highway, so i put a 160 stat and a high volume milodon water pump with the stock fan and flushed the whole cooling system and woudnt go past 175 and that was doing burnouts, high rpm shifts (having Fun) and still woudnt overheat. turns out the original water pump was no good and there was dirt in the radiator! hope this helps!!
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/24/09 02:13 AM
Ahall: holler when the temp hits 100. inquiring minds want to know
Posted By: Curt
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/24/09 02:13 AM
Quote:
I live in Grand Prairie about 5 minutes south of the airport and would be glad to help you with and teach you the hands on stuff. I'm retired so I am available most days. I've been a mechanic for over 40 years so I believe I can get you straightened out. There is a large Mopar club that would be glad to have you join us. CowtownMopars. Here's a link to our site. http://www.cowtownmopars.com/. We average 150 members. We have a race team and a show team. We do cruises and picnics, hold a yearly toy run and generally do a lot of Mopar realated stuff. Our meetings are once a month at Billy Bob's in the stockyards.
My email is, stumpy383@hotmail.com
I don't have a dog in the ring but stop and think....A man that has been doing this FOR A LIVING for over 40 years is offering his help for free (I am sure he was making over $30+ per hour full time) and he is...sounds like... 20 minutes away SHOULD be hard to pass up. He is retired which means it is now car playtime. I bet in an hours time he can have your car running, starting, driving better than it ever has since you have owned it. And in that same hours time you could have at least 30 questions answered and be well on your way to a set of proud greasy, busted up hands. There is nothing like the sensation of the light bulb being switched on...
Curt
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/24/09 11:46 PM
Quote:
Ahall: holler when the temp hits 100. inquiring minds want to know
will do man.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/24/09 11:47 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I live in Grand Prairie about 5 minutes south of the airport and would be glad to help you with and teach you the hands on stuff. I'm retired so I am available most days. I've been a mechanic for over 40 years so I believe I can get you straightened out. There is a large Mopar club that would be glad to have you join us. CowtownMopars. Here's a link to our site. http://www.cowtownmopars.com/. We average 150 members. We have a race team and a show team. We do cruises and picnics, hold a yearly toy run and generally do a lot of Mopar realated stuff. Our meetings are once a month at Billy Bob's in the stockyards.
My email is, stumpy383@hotmail.com
I don't have a dog in the ring but stop and think....A man that has been doing this FOR A LIVING for over 40 years is offering his help for free (I am sure he was making over $30+ per hour full time) and he is...sounds like... 20 minutes away SHOULD be hard to pass up. He is retired which means it is now car playtime. I bet in an hours time he can have your car running, starting, driving better than it ever has since you have owned it. And in that same hours time you could have at least 30 questions answered and be well on your way to a set of proud greasy, busted up hands. There is nothing like the sensation of the light bulb being switched on...
Curt
AMEN to what you said. Already arranged and cant wait for Stumpy to come over Saturday morning. 
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/24/09 11:48 PM
whoops-wrong thread
Posted By: Curt
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/25/09 01:24 AM
SWEET!
Posted By: Dbowperson
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/25/09 08:41 PM
Hi matt. I hadn't seen your car around for a while. It's looking good. Hope you get the heat problem squared away.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/26/09 12:47 AM
Quote:
Hi matt. I hadn't seen your car around for a while. It's looking good. Hope you get the heat problem squared away.
Hey fellow Dallas-ite? Do I know you? Do you know my car? 
Where have you seen it?
Posted By: Dbowperson
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/26/09 01:10 AM
We crossed paths towards the end of last year some time out in Grand Prairie I think. Unfortunately my memory is shot and I can't remember where. Sorry.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 02/26/09 01:17 AM
Quote:
We crossed paths towards the end of last year some time out in Grand Prairie I think. Unfortunately my memory is shot and I can't remember where. Sorry.
yep thats me brother! Nice to see you on here. Once I get my car up and running again and the weather gets warmer you will see alot more of it- come say hi if i dont do the same first.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 02/27/09 01:48 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I did put a 180 degree thermostat in there today as well.
What was in it before ??
Buelleur ??? Hello , is this thing on ???
sorry for interrupting your BS session ....
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 02/28/09 02:02 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I did put a 180 degree thermostat in there today as well.
What was in it before ??
Buelleur ??? Hello , is this thing on ???
sorry for interrupting your BS session ....
sorry man, a 160.
Posted By: fox
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 02/28/09 04:16 AM
With it idleing in neutral, air breather off, does it rev up when you introduce propane in to the carb throat.???? Just give it a little bit at a time.
If it revs up, your idle circuit is too lean. This make it run hot at idle.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 02/28/09 09:11 PM
Quote:
With it idleing in neutral, air breather off, does it rev up when you introduce propane in to the carb throat.???? Just give it a little bit at a time.
If it revs up, your idle circuit is too lean. This make it run hot at idle.
thanks, ill try that once the carb gets here.
Posted By: Publicbottle
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/06/09 06:37 AM
Any updates???
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/08/09 01:04 AM
On the way over there it was running kinda hot, on the way home, it ran hot. Now it didnt get higher than the H, but still was hot. Talking to Stumpy I may just need to go back to the factory shroud and fan with a clutch. Here are two screen shots of my temp gauge. (Im installing an aftermarket one tonight)
(As a point of reference, with the stock radiator and stock fan and stock shroud, it always ran just to the right of the second white bar over by the C.)
On the way over there here is what the temp gauge showed--
Here is how hot it got on the way home, running 50 mph on the freeway (getting run over too)
Now im running 3.55's in the back (just verfied in but jacking up the Dana 60 and turning the tire an counting the driveshaft rev's) with a 25" tire. Im going to a 26.6" tire tomorrow.
But damn if this heat issue isnt bugging the hell out of me. Im taching 3000 RPM at 50 mph.
When I got home I popped the hood and grabbed the upper radiator hose going from the thermostat to the top of the radiator and it was hard as a rock. I let it cool, just went out there and it was squishy-- what does that indicate? Is my thermostat stuck?
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 01:05 AM
Oh and im also installing a true thermostat gauge tonight/tomorrow.
Posted By: CrAlt
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 02:00 AM
Im watching this thread..keep us updated.
I have to upgrade my cooling system now that the motor is a little more "hot". When it was stock the cooling system was just OK..
How big is the opening in your car?
How does the bigger 26" rad fit? Did you have to move the battery?
My opening is only 22.5" on my '69.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 02:33 AM
I'm starting with a new 180 tstat and royal purple purple ice, be back in an hour with an update.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 02:52 AM
just yanked the thermostat housing and ill be damned if the current thermostat and gasket werent superglued in. Finally got the old thermostat out, not im having to scrape the old gasket off. Hopefully will be done in the next 20 mins and will fire it up.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 04:22 AM
alright just got back, still hacked off.
I replaced the thermostat, thinking that could have been it. Took off down the highway, temp needle is sitting straight up at 12 o clock high. I drive 9 miles down the road at 50-60, sucker doesnt move. Im thinking I figured it out. I go to exit and do a u-turn, get caught a light, it starts to creep up. I turn around, get going and there goes the needle, right to the H. No matter what i did it stayed at the H all the way home and died on me twice coming back down my street.
So it's not the thermostat. The radiator was hotter than a firecracker, so it's going thru the radiator, just not cooling.
My auxilary puller fan is pulling 2200 CFM. Does anyone know what the factory fan with a clutch pulled CFM?
I can do 3 things now:
1)Yank the 2200 CFM puller fan and get the SPAHL 6,000 CFM puller fans.
2)Fabricate the stock shroud to fit the aluminum radiator, put the stock fan back on, and try that.
3)Put the 26" radiator that was on there back on, and put the stock shroud and fan with clutch back on.
At this point im stumped.
Posted By: CrAlt
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 04:31 AM
Quote:
alright just got back, still hacked off.
I replaced the thermostat, thinking that could have been it. Took off down the highway, temp needle is sitting straight up at 12 o clock high. I drive 9 miles down the road at 50-60, sucker doesnt move. Im thinking I figured it out. I go to exit and do a u-turn, get caught a light, it starts to creep up. I turn around, get going and there goes the needle, right to the H. No matter what i did it stayed at the H all the way home and died on me twice coming back down my street.
So it's not the thermostat. The radiator was hotter than a firecracker, so it's going thru the radiator, just not cooling.
My auxilary puller fan is pulling 2200 CFM. Does anyone know what the factory fan with a clutch pulled CFM?
I can do 3 things now:
1)Yank the 2200 CFM puller fan and get the SPAHL 6,000 CFM puller fans.
2)Fabricate the stock shroud to fit the aluminum radiator, put the stock fan back on, and try that.
3)Put the 26" radiator that was on there back on, and put the stock shroud and fan with clutch back on.
At this point im stumped.
Everything ive read so far has said the stock clutch fan+shroud is the way to go. I think those electric fans end up blocking wind at highway speeds.
I'ed try the clutch fan/shroud with the alum rad.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 04:32 AM
Quote:
Quote:
alright just got back, still hacked off.
I replaced the thermostat, thinking that could have been it. Took off down the highway, temp needle is sitting straight up at 12 o clock high. I drive 9 miles down the road at 50-60, sucker doesnt move. Im thinking I figured it out. I go to exit and do a u-turn, get caught a light, it starts to creep up. I turn around, get going and there goes the needle, right to the H. No matter what i did it stayed at the H all the way home and died on me twice coming back down my street.
So it's not the thermostat. The radiator was hotter than a firecracker, so it's going thru the radiator, just not cooling.
My auxilary puller fan is pulling 2200 CFM. Does anyone know what the factory fan with a clutch pulled CFM?
I can do 3 things now:
1)Yank the 2200 CFM puller fan and get the SPAHL 6,000 CFM puller fans.
2)Fabricate the stock shroud to fit the aluminum radiator, put the stock fan back on, and try that.
3)Put the 26" radiator that was on there back on, and put the stock shroud and fan with clutch back on.
At this point im stumped.
Everything ive read so far has said the stock clutch fan+shroud is the way to go. I think those electric fans end up blocking wind at highway speeds.
even if it's a puller not a pusher? Im thinking it just doesnt PULL enough air.
Posted By: CrAlt
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 04:38 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
alright just got back, still hacked off.
I replaced the thermostat, thinking that could have been it. Took off down the highway, temp needle is sitting straight up at 12 o clock high. I drive 9 miles down the road at 50-60, sucker doesnt move. Im thinking I figured it out. I go to exit and do a u-turn, get caught a light, it starts to creep up. I turn around, get going and there goes the needle, right to the H. No matter what i did it stayed at the H all the way home and died on me twice coming back down my street.
So it's not the thermostat. The radiator was hotter than a firecracker, so it's going thru the radiator, just not cooling.
My auxilary puller fan is pulling 2200 CFM. Does anyone know what the factory fan with a clutch pulled CFM?
I can do 3 things now:
1)Yank the 2200 CFM puller fan and get the SPAHL 6,000 CFM puller fans.
2)Fabricate the stock shroud to fit the aluminum radiator, put the stock fan back on, and try that.
3)Put the 26" radiator that was on there back on, and put the stock shroud and fan with clutch back on.
At this point im stumped.
Everything ive read so far has said the stock clutch fan+shroud is the way to go. I think those electric fans end up blocking wind at highway speeds.
even if it's a puller not a pusher? Im thinking it just doesnt PULL enough air.
When your moving at speed you dont really need a fan. Wind is blowing through the rad at 50mpg or what ever your driving at.
Thats way more air then what can fit through your electric fan. It maybe acting as a air dam at speed.
EDIT: Also, take a look at the A/C condenser. Is it really as messed up as it looks in this pic? How many of the fins are bent over??
They make a tool to straiten them out. Maybe its blocking to much air.
Posted By: Jeremiah
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 04:44 AM
First, you need to get an infrared temp gun or at the very least a mechanical gauge. The factory gauges are not known to be very accurate. I would also pressure test the cooling system to see if there is any type of head gasket issue. Sometimes the cooling system will get cylinder pressure and cause overheating. Do you get little bubble in the radiator if it sits and runs until warmed up with the cap off?
I have a 408 stroker with a summit aluminum radiator and cheap single blade electric fan with no shroud and it never gets above 200 deg even in the heat of summer here in the high desert.
Posted By: CrAlt
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 04:45 AM
Posted By: btomasko
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 02:27 PM
Did you check the timing on the engine, might be probable cause.
Posted By: Pool Fixer
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 02:27 PM
2200 cfm is not going to cut it on a big block. I had a similar problem with my 440 and went down the same road as you, new aluminum rad, new stat, water wetter, new clutch fan, none of it worked.
my problem was at idle. even moving at 10-20 mph it would cool right down. I ended up installing a flex fan. I know everyone is down on them, but they cool very well. I used my old electric as an aux "pusher' on the front of the rad.
I'd say your idea about spal fans is a good one. when it comes to fans, either OEM or Spal.
If you run a clutch setup, the MP one is way too "long" at least it was on my charger. I bought a short one from bob mazzoliniracing.com. it was expensive, @80 bucks, but I didn't know any better. members here found a parts store one that's way less money. I never got around to installing mine, so I don't know how it worked.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 02:49 PM
What he negelected to mention is the fact thet he is running a 3000 stall converter and the trans may be slippimg. This is with a 25" tall tire and 3.55 gears. He is running 3000rpm at 50 mph. He's turning some high RPMs at 65-70. I checked his airflow and there is plenty of air getting to the radiator but the fan he's using has a lot of blockage coming out. the fan housing has a bunch of close set ribs, about a 1/4" apart, that seem to keep air from coming out of the fan as well as it should. Timing and carb are good. It will sit forever at an idle or run around at city strret speeds without and heating trouble. I recommended that he cut every other rib off the fan housing and see what difference letting the air out did. I also suggested he swap to a more street friendly converter.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 02:54 PM
Quote:
Did you check the timing on the engine, might be probable cause.
yes, Stumpy help me set it yesterday.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 02:56 PM
Im going to a 26.6" tire this week.
Im also going to go back to a 2000-2200 stall. What specific stall do you recommend?
Yes, the a/c condesor is the original one, I need to get the fins straightened.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 03:09 PM
BTW it's a very nice charger insde and out.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 04:12 PM
Im going back to the stock radiator, going to have it gone thru, then putting the stock shroud and clutch/fan back on.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 06:14 PM
My neighbor just had a good idea- could a clogged heater core cause this?
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 06:35 PM
No. A clooged heater core would just mean no heat inside. Get your rpms down and get the slippage cured. Both of those cause excessive heat.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 06:39 PM
putting the 2" taller tires on right now. Will see what that does.
Going to start the car when I get back from the tire shop, let it run with the cap off and see what happens.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 06:52 PM
What will that show other than that the water moves.. You already know you don't have a problem at idle.
Posted By: AARCONV
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 06:58 PM
to bad u can't pull out the a/c condenser and see if the temps improve..before u start changing it to stock fan and clutch and shroud....
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 07:44 PM
If the problem was at low speed I could see the a/c condenser and trans cooler being the problem but his trouble is at highway speeds which should rule that out.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 07:46 PM
I just started it up and drove it 2 miles down the street to discount tire and it was on the H when i got there.
Posted By: bboogieart
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 08:10 PM
why aren't you listening to stumpy?
You are spinning that motor too high for regular highway use. And tranny slippage = major heat.
Either change the converter or the gears. better yet both.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 09:38 PM
Hey boogieart, tell me then how going to a taller tire isn't going to reduce rpm's on the highway? I will await your reply as I await for my 2" taller tires to finish up being installed.
Posted By: bboogieart
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 09:41 PM
Quote:
Hey boogieart, tell me then how going to a taller tire isn't going to reduce rpm's on the highway? I will await your reply as I await for my 2" taller tires to finish up being installed.
It will but not by very much. you'll see on your way home from the tire shop.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 09:44 PM
Every little bit helps, and its not like I can go down to Vatozone and pick a new 727 and 2000 stall torque convertor on a sunday afternoon.
Posted By: bboogieart
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 09:46 PM
That's true, Hope you have a cool ride home.
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 09:47 PM
And yes, stumpy makes very good and valid points but I can't have that as the fix due to the fact that before I did the intake, carb, radiator, fan switch it was cooling a lot better- even with the current tranny/tc setup. I'd like to tinker with the small things first before swapping parts again.
Posted By: CrAlt
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 10:02 PM
This
Posted By: CrAlt
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 10:03 PM
Quote:
This
Plus this
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 10:04 PM
Going back to the original stuff probably will help him somewhat.
It runs OK at idle when the air is being pulled through from the backside of the radiator, not being pushed through the condenser.
It heats up at speed.
Aluminum radiators like more airflow than copper/brass.
He has a very restrictive condenser and cooler in front of the radiator.
The aluminum radiator is going to be quite a bit more hurt by the airflow restriction than the copper/ brass one, so it should get better going back.
The best solution is to get rid of the condenser and use the aluminum radiator with good airflow.
Posted By: CrAlt
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 10:06 PM
Quote:
Quote:
This
Plus this
== this
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 10:06 PM
Quote:
This
I wouldn't be buying the MP 5 blade if I was having cooling problems. Use a 7 blade. They even advertise the HP savings with the 5 blade (even over stock clutch units)...the only way to save HP is by moving LESS air.
Posted By: dirtybee
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/08/09 10:06 PM
i run 3:91's with a 3000 stall converter behind my 440 and i do some pretty long distance trips in summer on the highway and there are people running much wilder combos than me. i would try ditching the elec. fan and going with a belt driven type(flex or clutch drive) with a shroud. good luck.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 10:16 PM
Quote:
ran it down the freeway, did well, exited, sat in traffic 5-10 mins (stop-go) and the needle got over to the "H".
I thought it was acting up when it was idling/stop & go & was OK out on the interstate
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/08/09 10:26 PM
Quote:
But damn if this heat issue isnt bugging the hell out of me. Im taching 3000 RPM at 50 mph.
When I got home I popped the hood and grabbed the upper radiator hose going from the thermostat to the top of the radiator and it was hard as a rock. I let it cool, just went out there and it was squishy-- what does that indicate? Is my thermostat stuck?
That's a pretty high RPM for that RPM and 50mph ?
The hose should he hard since the system is under pressure , thats a good ting , and it should get soft once the car cools down as the pressure is much less if not gone .
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 10:27 PM
Do you have the coil in the lower hose to prevent collapsing under low pressure from the WP?????
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 10:28 PM
Quote:
No. A clooged heater core would just mean no heat inside. Get your rpms down and get the slippage cured. Both of those cause excessive heat.
But it looks like he has a seperate trans cooler so the trans will have less of an effect on the cooling system , or is it plumbed into the rad also ?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 10:30 PM
Quote:
If the problem was at low speed I could see the a/c condenser and trans cooler being the problem but his trouble is at highway speeds which should rule that out.
That's an air flow issue thru the rad .Here's a test , pull that fan setup out of the car and go for a ride ...
Posted By: Jeremiah
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 11:51 PM
Quote:
What will that show other than that the water moves.. You already know you don't have a problem at idle.
If for some reason the cylinder pressure is getting into the cooling system you might see some bubbles coming up with the car warmed up and radiator cap off. I have seen this type of issue cause a runaway temp condition that would only happen if the car was driven on the highway and then had to sit in traffic, i.e. at the end of an exit on Hwy 75 at 5pm.
Just a thought...
Posted By: CrAlt
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/08/09 11:59 PM
Quote:
Quote:
If the problem was at low speed I could see the a/c condenser and trans cooler being the problem but his trouble is at highway speeds which should rule that out.
That's an air flow issue thru the rad .Here's a test , pull that fan setup out of the car and go for a ride ...
I don't think that will help any... He might as well put cardboard over the grille
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/09/09 12:24 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If the problem was at low speed I could see the a/c condenser and trans cooler being the problem but his trouble is at highway speeds which should rule that out.
That's an air flow issue thru the rad .Here's a test , pull that fan setup out of the car and go for a ride ...
I don't think that will help any... He might as well put cardboard over the grille
If thats the case why didn't he have an issue with the stock rad and that hi stall convertor ?
Stumpy spelled out the electric fan shroud being restrctive , SHE whose name can not be spoken had the same problem with her RR , alum rad , electric fan and a shroud that blocked flow , it idled fine but once you got it moving it would get way too hot because the shroud was forcing the hot air back into the radiator .
Posted By: justinp61
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/09/09 12:32 AM
I had over heating problems on my aluminum headed small block Dart a few years ago. It had a new replacement radiator with a Flex o Lite Black Magic electric fan on it, standard wp and 180* thermostat. I went to a new aluminum radiator with a new Flex o Lite thin fan, 2700 cfm. It still ran hot so I changed to a Flow Kooler wp and a high flow 160* thermostat, still hot. The fix was a MP (5 blade) viscous fan package and a factory shroud that I modified to fit the aluminum radiator. My car doesn't have air so it's not apples to apples, just my experience
.
Edit** This car has 4.30 gears and a 9.5" 4400 converter.
Posted By: Ken25
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/09/09 01:11 AM
the fan used on my 440 is a dual fan off a caravan run off a thermo switch.it fit up to my truck rad pritty good and in 90 deg. heat it could idle all day with no problem.i believe my pump is a mildon hi flow. that might be doing the trick for me
Posted By: CrAlt
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/09/09 01:19 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If the problem was at low speed I could see the a/c condenser and trans cooler being the problem but his trouble is at highway speeds which should rule that out.
That's an air flow issue thru the rad .Here's a test , pull that fan setup out of the car and go for a ride ...
I don't think that will help any... He might as well put cardboard over the grille
If thats the case why didn't he have an issue with the stock rad and that hi stall convertor ?
Stumpy spelled out the electric fan shroud being restrctive , Dartgirl had the same problem with her RR , alum rad , electric fan and a shroud that blocked flow , it idled fine but once you got it moving it would get way too hot because the shroud was forcing the hot air back into the radiator .
Because the stock fan could pull a heck of alot more then that little electric fan. It was prob pulling air from above and below the evap.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/09/09 01:31 AM
The condenser isn't blocked up.The picture makes it look bad but it's not. There is a good deal of room between the radiator and the condenser and there is space between the cooler and condenser. There is also plenty of air flow through the grille and under the bumper. He also has a air dam that is directing air up into the front. Air to the radiator isn't his problem. The radiator has a shroud that covers at bunch of the back side and leaves air through the fan area only. As I said earlier the fan housing has very close ribbing that cuts down a bunch on air flow.. That is a big restriction.
AHall please post a better picture of the engine side of the radiator and fan for clarification. One more directly at it instead of from the side.
Posted By: CrAlt
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/09/09 01:53 AM
Quote:
please post a better picture of the engine side of the radiator and fan for clarification. One more directly at it instead of from the side.
Or just do what johnrr said and let us know how it worked out 
Posted By: firefighter3931
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/09/09 11:31 AM
Quote:
Now im running 3.55's in the back (just verfied in but jacking up the Dana 60 and turning the tire an counting the driveshaft rev's) with a 25" tire. Im going to a 26.6" tire tomorrow.
But damn if this heat issue isnt bugging the hell out of me. Im taching 3000 RPM at 50 mph.
Assuming that your tire diameter of 25in is correct and the speedo/tach are also correct.... the [Email]3000rpm@50mph[/Email] is showing 24% converter slippage. This will generate a LOT of heat. If the transmission fluid is plumbed into the rad then into the cooler afterwards this is taxing the cooling system big time.
problem #1: the torque converter...it's on the way out based on the calculated slippage and generating too much heat.
problem #2: If the trans is plumbed into the rad then this is another contributing factor to your overheating at cruise speed. Run the B&M cooler as a stand alone unit after you replace the converter to reduce the load on your cooling system.
I've ran several loose converters over the years with the B&M stacked plate cooler with never a problem.
As for the rad, the aluminum unit should be plenty. My buddy runs a 22in Summit aluminum rad in his 671 supercharged B-body with a pusher fan and it cools fine in the summer heat in traffic....we all know how much heat Roots blowers generate. 
In 95* ambiant air temps it stays between 195-200 in traffic jams. As soon as the car starts moving it drops down to 180. That car is also running a 4500 stall but the trans cooling is done through a stand alone unit. For reference : the previous rad was a re-cored 26in 3 row c-body unit that would hit 230* in light traffic on a warm day...the dual pass 22in alum rad was a huge improvement.
Ron
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/09/09 03:54 PM
someone said a wirty dord
Posted By: moper
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/09/09 04:13 PM
It's a long post... is there anyone that mentionned a problem with the engine generating too much heat? Seems like your trying to fix the symptom, not the cause. What is the cranking compression in each cylinder? To do this test, pull all eight plugs with the engine warmed up, and see what the gage tells you. Sounds like the thing has running issues.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/09/09 04:48 PM
Quote:
It's a long post... is there anyone that mentioned a problem with the engine generating too much heat? Seems like your trying to fix the symptom, not the cause. What is the cranking compression in each cylinder? To do this test, pull all eight plugs with the engine warmed up, and see what the gage tells you. Sounds like the thing has running issues.
You are correct , he is working the symptom , he changed radiator and the stock fan to an alum rad and electric setup and NOW has a heating up issue .
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/09/09 05:46 PM
I also during this radiator/fan swap did go from a performer rpm intake to a CH4B intake- that wouldn't be any cause for concern would it?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/09/09 06:00 PM
Quote:
I also during this radiator/fan swap did go from a performer rpm intake to a CH4B intake- that wouldn't be any cause for concern would it?
no .
where's the pic showing the fan setup so we can see it's shrouding that stumpy mentioned ?
Posted By: moper
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/09/09 06:24 PM
Ah. That is plenty of radiator for it as compared to factory brass. No way a convertor will throw enough heat on it's own thru it's own cooler to affect the radiator temps. It's not like they run at 400°. It's hot at 230-240, and it wouldnt stay there for long even lightly slipping while street driving. I'm assuming an AC car so it has the big radiator support too. So you need air flow. Period. What are the chances that the fan was bolted to the clutch backwards? They can go either way...
Posted By: firefighter3931
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/09/09 07:17 PM
Quote:
So you need air flow. Period.
He's getting lots of airflow at cruise speed.
I'd like to know if his trans lines are going through the radiator or not...that would go a long way to determining the problem and eliminate some potential issues.
On many cars i've seen a 15-20* drop in engine temps when bypassing the radiator. If you don't think 20% slippage is a problem then you haven't been around too many 727 transmissions.
Ron
Posted By: 71 FJ6 Charger
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/09/09 08:05 PM
Quote:
Do you have the coil in the lower hose to prevent collapsing under low pressure from the WP?????
If I paid attention,I believe this was the only time this was mentioned............ Unless I missed it. It was my problem in the exact same kind of car,440 a little spiced up,tight gears,fine cruising around,got hot on the freeway! Found the coil was not there,(new hose,I did not put one in),put one in,problem solved. 
Posted By: moper
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/09/09 10:34 PM
Quote:
If you don't think 20% slippage is a problem then you haven't been around too many 727 transmissions.
Ron
Not only have I been around them, I gotten paid to build them for 20 years...lol. Slippage factor is figured at full throttle, in direct (high) gear, above the convertor's stall speed. This is because all convertors have a ton of slip below the stall speed. So at light throttle cruise, the fluid in the convertor is not being forced past the vanes as hard, and they will slip like mad. It is a case of wrong convertor, which is really common. But there's not enough heat coming out thru the cooler to heat the radiator and affect engine temp.
Posted By: bboogieart
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 03/09/09 11:31 PM
Quote:
Do you have the coil in the lower hose to prevent collapsing under low pressure from the WP?????
You know I thought this was mentioned but I just went through the thread and saw no mention or response, this is a very simple thing to check, and would most certainly cause this problem. By the way ahal how was your ride home with the new tires? no mention of that either. this is getting to be realy odd.Shouldn't be such a big thing. I hope you get it figured out soon.
Posted By: craigsmytcudas
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/10/09 12:47 AM
Moper you should be proud after 4 pages of total crap you my friend can say you are the only one that gets it kudos. the car of mention has been all over the net and the good folks on here have helped this guy spend a small fortune on parts through blind trust to no positive results . all parts mentioned here were installed after the heat issues ,your point is spot on about looking at the engine . the heat gun will show hot spots on the exhaust headers i.e. glowing red .when matt the owner installed the larger carb and induced more fuel it just fueled the fire and hence got hoter yet .after all the screwing around i think the rings and valve springs are dead or close to it .now the fix who ever installed the heads would be the place i would start my look starting with shims under the rocker shafts = hanging ex valves also a slipped balancer and other poss timing issues = retarded timing etc. with all the people involved this car is fubared . one last point the trans could slip if the new intake has altered the kick down linkage and removed line presure .c
Posted By: craigsmytcudas
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/10/09 12:54 AM
One last thing moper pm me if you ever want to chat .as for this thread i wont be further involved in this cluster pluck .c
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/10/09 01:11 AM
Quote:
the car of mention has been all over the net and the good folks on here have helped this guy spend a small fortune on parts through blind trust to no positive results . all parts mentioned here were installed after the heat issues
So, you are telling us the OP is misleading us as to when the problem started?
Posted By: firefighter3931
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/10/09 01:54 AM
Quote:
Quote:
If you don't think 20% slippage is a problem then you haven't been around too many 727 transmissions.
Ron
Not only have I been around them, I gotten paid to build them for 20 years...lol. Slippage factor is figured at full throttle, in direct (high) gear, above the convertor's stall speed. This is because all convertors have a ton of slip below the stall speed. So at light throttle cruise, the fluid in the convertor is not being forced past the vanes as hard, and they will slip like mad. It is a case of wrong convertor, which is really common. But there's not enough heat coming out thru the cooler to heat the radiator and affect engine temp.
Not trying to be a smart azz but did you read the thread...he's taching 3000 rpm at 50 mph. I would think that the converter is not slipping 20% at full lock-up. That must sound reasonable correct ?
I agree with you that the current rad is sufficient.
I'm not saying that my hypothesis is correct....but i have seen it before and the fix was by-passing the radiator.
Ron
Posted By: firefighter3931
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/10/09 01:56 AM
Quote:
Moper you should be proud after 4 pages of total crap you my friend can say you are the only one that gets it kudos. the car of mention has been all over the net and the good folks on here have helped this guy spend a small fortune on parts through blind trust to no positive results . all parts mentioned here were installed after the heat issues ,your point is spot on about looking at the engine . the heat gun will show hot spots on the exhaust headers i.e. glowing red .when matt the owner installed the larger carb and induced more fuel it just fueled the fire and hence got hoter yet .after all the screwing around i think the rings and valve springs are dead or close to it .now the fix who ever installed the heads would be the place i would start my look starting with shims under the rocker shafts = hanging ex valves also a slipped balancer and other poss timing issues = retarded timing etc. with all the people involved this car is fubared . one last point the trans could slip if the new intake has altered the kick down linkage and removed line presure .c
Another keyboard cowboy....whatever 
The valvesprings went south all of a sudden...gimme a break.
Ron
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/10/09 01:58 AM
Quote:
Moper you should be proud after 4 pages of total crap you my friend can say you are the only one that gets it kudos. the car of mention has been all over the net and the good folks on here have helped this guy spend a small fortune on parts through blind trust to no positive results . all parts mentioned here were installed after the heat issues ,your point is spot on about looking at the engine . the heat gun will show hot spots on the exhaust headers i.e. glowing red .when matt the owner installed the larger carb and induced more fuel it just fueled the fire and hence got hoter yet .after all the screwing around i think the rings and valve springs are dead or close to it .now the fix who ever installed the heads would be the place i would start my look starting with shims under the rocker shafts = hanging ex valves also a slipped balancer and other poss timing issues = retarded timing etc. with all the people involved this car is fubared . one last point the trans could slip if the new intake has altered the kick down linkage and removed line presure .c
Perhaps you could tell us where you got all your experinece and when you actually looked and worked on this car that you seem to know all about.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/10/09 01:59 AM
I just reread the entire thread.
First post said it was good at speed, but heated up idle.
Later on, Stumpy says it was fine at idle and hot at speed (I think this is more likely correct).
On page two, the OP says with the original rad, fan, shroud, it ran great at 2 lines off of C, which says it hasn't always had a heating issue. Why the resistance to going back?
Just too many things that don't add up here for anyone to do much of anything.
Posted By: feets
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 03/10/09 03:08 AM
Ahall, I'm in Irving just east of the airport. Bring it over in a couple weeks and we'll get it fixed. If I can cool the TT440, I can cool yours too.
I have a machine gun shoot this weekend. If you don't want your car riddled by belt fed 50 calibers you might want to wait.
There are a number of pullies and mechanical fans lurking about my garage. I have a couple different flex fans as well as a monster C-body 7 blade factory clutch fan. If they fix the problem, they're yours.
You are likely being double teamed.
1) crappy fan
2) tight shroud
Take that fan off and watch the engine run cool on the highway.
Better yet, take it off and throw it as far as you can. They don't flow enough air. I had all different sizes of them. None of them are on the car now.
Every time I installed one as a pusher the car heated up on the highway. Yes, even when run with a puller.
They simply don't move enough air.
The shroud is probably blocking air movement at speed as well. Fans and shrouds are only useful below 35 mph. Anywhere above that, they're a hinderance. Even Chrysler turned off the cooling fans on a 2.2 turbo at 35 mph.
I've got stuff around here to build a different shroud for testing so we don't hack yours needlessly.
Another thing we can do is install a thermostatic switch so the fan doesn't run when it's not needed. That makes for a tidy install.
If nothing else works, we can try to fit one of my monster Mercedes fans. Those will cool it. The drawack would be having to upgrade the charging system.
We can get you fixed and stop wasting money.
I'm not able to post here from work so send me an e-mail if you like.
Posted By: Publicbottle
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 09/14/09 01:12 AM
IN CONCLUSION.......................!!
What ended up happening here....?
anyone
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 09/14/09 02:17 PM
I had a problem with a 440 in a 56 Dodge pickup. After about 20 min of driving the temp would be at 230. Tried reducing the speed of water through the system with no change at all changed the thermostat. No help. When changing the thermostat noticed a couple of inches under it in the housing there was a hole drilled into the other side (inlet). Tapped and put a 1/4 pipe plug in the hole. That cured the problem. The engine would go up to 195 (that was the thermostat) and not go any higher. Can someone tell me why they drill a hole from the inlet to the outlet side of the water pump housing? Anyway, overheating problem solved!
Posted By: fox
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 09/14/09 07:11 PM
I did NOT read every post.
This is an area that seems to be over looked.
Is it running too lean?
What do the plugs look like?
Did you try ti richen it up some?
I had a car 20 years ago that did exactly as you have.
The edelbrock carb was far too lean, richened it up and all was good, even with the air conditioning runnig!!!!!
Posted By: Prodart440
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 09/15/09 04:02 AM
Quote:
I had a problem with a 440 in a 56 Dodge pickup. After about 20 min of driving the temp would be at 230. Tried reducing the speed of water through the system with no change at all changed the thermostat. No help. When changing the thermostat noticed a couple of inches under it in the housing there was a hole drilled into the other side (inlet). Tapped and put a 1/4 pipe plug in the hole. That cured the problem. The engine would go up to 195 (that was the thermostat) and not go any higher. Can someone tell me why they drill a hole from the inlet to the outlet side of the water pump housing? Anyway, overheating problem solved!
I would like to know more about this solving what sounds to be my problem.
Posted By: Dusted_Ya
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 09/16/09 02:58 AM
I'm having an overheating problem as well and I put an infrared heat gun on my exhaust pipes just coming out of the heads and I'm getting 675ish on all but #6 is like 550 and # 5 is so hot it don't read (over 800). Now I'm wondering if maybe my stock cast iron intake manifold is warped or cracked somewhere? I'm also going to try tapping and plugging that hole in the WP housing.
Posted By: Prodart440
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 09/16/09 04:11 AM
I didn't put a gun to mine, but after holding the RPM's at 2500 for a couple of minuates (in park) the headers were glowing red. Could it be lean, or too much timing? Car runs cool at low speeds, but on the freeway at higher RPM it runs HOT!!
Posted By: feets
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 09/16/09 02:09 PM
Glowing headers sounds too lean.
Posted By: fox
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 09/16/09 07:47 PM
Too lean or LATE timing can cause it.
I still bet it is way too lean.
Simple to richen it up some to try!!!!
Posted By: Prodart440
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 09/18/09 05:04 AM
I think I agree on the too lean. I took my distributor to have it checked. It is set at 15* initial and 34* all in by 2500 rpm. If this is right, my headers are now glowing even more. I will try to richen the secondaries and see how that goes. Any other suggestions??
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum *DELETED* - 04/25/10 01:35 AM
Post deleted by AHall
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 04/25/10 02:46 AM
What does the converter have to do with running hot.
Posted By: HealthServices
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 04/25/10 02:55 AM
Produces a hell of a lot of heat esp if it is a 4k stall. It would always slip on the street. I don't know how that can really be that streetable.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 04/25/10 04:38 AM
But how does that affect the engine?Seems like only the trans would need a good trans cooler
Posted By: HealthServices
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 04/25/10 04:51 AM
You can run a stand alone unit but that is a lot of heat. If the lines currently go into the radiator they are basically heating up the coolant. I just caught the tail end of this thread so I'm not sure exactly what he has for a setup.
Posted By: enelson
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 04/25/10 05:09 AM
underdrive pulley? That's what kills my cooling system...
Posted By: HealthServices
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 04/25/10 05:30 AM
Killed mine too.
Posted By: terzmo
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum rad - 04/25/10 05:54 AM
My 498 stroker would NOT run cool in traffic...final fix was....alum 26 rad...cheap one...schroud and 7 blade clutch fan..fan half in...half out...this heating problem plaqued Me for 4 years...I am VERY happy with this combo now...car rarely goes over 200...not much over..in long traffic jams in very hot weather
Posted By: AHall
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 05/02/10 02:13 AM
Quote:
Glowing headers sounds too lean.
FEETS- email sent
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 05/02/10 02:27 AM
Quote:
Funny thing was id pull off in stop and go and it would go to 185-190 degrees, I get back on the highway (granted doing 70 mph taching 4000 rpm) and it crept to 215-217 degrees and stayed there.
sure sounds like classic inadequate flow in the cooling system (usually the rad) but I'd pull the plugs and check the turning torque required on the front 1&1/4 bolt ASAP right when it's good and hot and maybe 215-217 is not a deal breaker but to me that is too hot.
Posted By: JoesMopar
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 05/02/10 02:32 AM
I haven't even attempted to read every post on here,...but do you have a fan shroud?
Posted By: bb74swngr
Re: Still running hot in traffic with the new aluminum - 05/02/10 03:36 AM
Went through all of this with by 440 Dart. My overheating problem turn out to be low fuel pressure ala too lean. It would change depending on what day it was, hot at idle one day, hot driving the next. New fuel pump and it was cool...really. Doesn't matter whether it makes sense or not, that's what fixed my overheating.
Russ:)
