Moparts

383 HP 330vs335 hp

Posted By: NachoRT74

383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 12:37 AM

I know the Superbee/RR 383 HP got a diff camshaft than the 383 HP Magnum/supercomando used on the Charger, Coronet, Satellite and as far I know is the only difference, but what are the spec on them?

Is the lower of the purpleshaft cams correct for the 330 or to the 335 hp engine?
Posted By: Fab64

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 12:42 AM

It wasn't just the cams; the other difference in the engines was the HP used 440 heads. Sorry I don't have the cam specs - they should be available online.

Edit: Wow, looks like I really stirred things up! Sorry, this is what I was told many, many years ago, and never questioned it. Obviously, it is wrong - please excuse my ignorance. shruggy
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 12:43 AM

440 heads? Different from the 383?
Posted By: BSB67

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 01:12 AM

Originally Posted By NachoRT74
440 heads? Different from the 383?


no
Posted By: elmor353

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 01:22 AM

Different cam, valve springs and exhaust manifolds. 68 to 71 383's all used the same heads as 440's. 67 383's used 516 casting heads, while 67 440's used the 915. 2bbl engines usually had less compression as well.
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 01:38 AM

Ok, would like to know the specs on diff parts between the 330 and the 335 horse power engines

Diff exhaust manifolds between them? I know diff with 2 bbls but being both 4 bbls ? I guess both were called magnum as well ( Dodge )
Posted By: elmor353

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 01:52 AM

335 hp engines usually got the HP exhaust manifolds, while the 330 hp engines usually got logs like the 2bbls.
Posted By: NANKET

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 02:48 AM

Originally Posted By elmor353
. 68 to 71 383's all used the same heads as 440's.


No they don't. 68-70 are the same 906 heads, 1971 are 3462346 heads
Posted By: NANKET

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 02:51 AM

Originally Posted By elmor353
335 hp engines usually got the HP exhaust manifolds, while the 330 hp engines usually got logs like the 2bbls.


No they did not get log manifolds. The 383 4 bbl engines absolutely have HP manifolds 1968-1971, The 1967 and older 383 4 BBl engines in B and C bodies got log manifolds.
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 02:55 AM

Well, I'm looking at several 68/70 Charger engine bays with 383 Magnum and I can see HP manifold exhaust on everyone
Posted By: BSB67

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 03:13 AM

Same exhaust manifolds too.
Posted By: 68mannix

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 03:23 AM

the difference is that the 335 horse engine got a windage tray and the 330 horse engine did not that's the 5 horse difference.
Posted By: BlueRacer69

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 03:29 AM

Originally Posted By 68mannix
the difference is that the 335 horse engine got a windage tray and the 330 horse engine did not that's the 5 horse difference.
Not true. My 69 383 Dart GTS with 330hp had the windage tray in the oil pan from day one. And I'm the original owner.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 03:38 AM

Mopar derated the HP on all the 383 A body engines(300 or maybe 305 HP) supposedly due to the driver side exhaust manifold, so they said whistling
Me thinks that the 335 HP rated 390 FE Mustang and Fairlane GT and the 1968 1968 and up 428 ford motors ratings of 330 and 335 HP had a lot of input on Mopars decision on those A body HP rating work
Epecially the 275 HP 340 motors devil whistling
Posted By: 68mannix

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 03:52 AM

there is no windage tray on 383 A body it has baffles in the oil pan not the same thing windage tray on big block mopars is a tray that goes between oil pan and block, so it is true.
Posted By: BlueRacer69

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 04:21 AM

Okay you call it one thing, I call it another. The principal still the same. And I don't believe the so called windage tray made 5 horse power difference. It was in the more restrictive exhaust manifolds.
Posted By: 375inStroke

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 04:28 AM

The FSM shows the same cam and spring specs of the 383 2V used on the Charger 383 4V, but the Charger has 10.0:1 compression vs. 9.2:1 on the 383 2V. It also shows the 383 4V used in the Dart and SuperBee as using the same cam and springs as the 440 4V. I've always seen HP manifolds used on 383 4V Chargers.
Posted By: 68mannix

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 06:03 AM

It is the windage tray ,the op is talking B bodies and your dart is not a B body the last I checked as my 69 383 gts conv. is an A body so unless dodge built 1 69 gts 383 B body and you got it ,yours is also an A body.
Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 06:28 AM

335hp gets the 375hp 440 cam and springs.
Posted By: MikeN

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 07:59 AM

The 1970 brochure says camshaft, springs and windage tray.
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/dealerships/DealershipDataBook/1970/70_Barracuda0014.jpg
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 08:47 AM

the reason for this pissing match is the original question is not specific enough to answer the question properly

WHAT YEAR & BODY 383 4bbl VS. 383HP 4bbl are "WE" discussing?

1970?

383 4bbl 330hp blue engine w/CARTER carb (B, C & E-bodies)
VS.
383HP 4bbl 335hp orange engine w/HOLLEY carb (B & E-bodies) ZERO C-bodies

what specifically would you like to discuss ??
Posted By: elmor353

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 09:29 AM

The 346 castings were also used on 440's.
Posted By: fastmark

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 12:31 PM

Originally Posted By 6bblgt
the reason for this pissing match is the original question is not specific enough to answer the question properly

WHAT YEAR & BODY 383 4bbl VS. 383HP 4bbl are "WE" discussing?

1970?

383 4bbl 330hp blue engine w/CARTER carb (B, C & E-bodies)
VS.
383HP 4bbl 335hp orange engine w/HOLLEY carb (B & E-bodies) ZERO C-bodies

what specifically would you like to discuss ??


Like Dan says. Give him some specifics and he can answer most questions. I've never known him to get anything wrong as far as I far as my knowledge goes. I do have a 70 Challenger 383 SE with the blue 330 horse ( not the RT or HP). It has air and a Carter carb. It has no windage tray, a 402 pan, and hp manifolds. My original 70 Cuda with the orange 335 HP Version had a Holley and hp manifolds.
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 01:51 PM

Yes, I just detailed 68 and 69 ( as an example ) dealer datasheet specs and compared the info between chargers and superbees, and states Chargers got the standard camshaft and superbees got the hight lift ones, along with the diff springs of course

Never thought a 383 magnum charger ( and I guess coronets and Belvederes with supercomandos ) engine got standard camshafts! I always thought all BB magnums got same performance camshafts and sorings, so the same than 440 mkaing the "Magnum" name more standard to all BB meaning same inner parts for everyone. And superbees/RR got a even "higher step" one.

What are the difference between the standard and the "high lifft" camshafts then ?

I guess the first one of the purpleshaft cams is to the 440s and superbees/RR 383s then

Wondering now about the 400 magnums camshafts too


Posted By: BSB67

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By NachoRT74


What are the difference between the standard and the "high lifft" camshafts then ?

I guess the first one of the purpleshaft cams is to the 440s and superbees/RR 383s then

Wondering now about the 400 magnums camshafts too



The lift is not that different, like 0.020" more. I have the numbers, just to lazy to go get them. The duration is bigger as well, and the real reason for the performance increase.

None of the "purple shafts" were installed by the factory. The original purples shaft/shafts were a step up or more from what was installed from the factory in wedge motors. I guess now you can purchase a resto cam from MP. Maybe it is called a purple cam too.
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 03:35 PM

The difference?

One is orange the other isn't.

One has a fancy pie plate the other doesn't.

One it said to be 335hp by Chrysler, the other isn't, and this is the point. I'm sure both made their rated HP at some RPM level, but that doesn't mean it's max or that they really are that different in output.
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 06:51 PM

This is my first post here, I had almost this exact question on another site.

SO I have a 69 Charger 383 4bbl A/C 330HP car.
My car is a #'s matching car that is low miles (7,000) and mostly org shape.
It came to me with #'s matching 383 4bbl(Holley)carb, A/C(330HP) engine painted blue(turquoise) and a duel snorkel air cleaner.
It had no pie tin.
My question would be what pie tin should I have,383 4bbl,or 383 Magnum? and do I have the correct air cleaner?
Most 69 383 4bbl A/C cars I have looked up, have the duel snorkel, but I have also come across ever possible combo of color engine and air cleaner and pie tins you could imagine.
SO what is factory correct?
Also what makes the 383 330hp vs the 383 335HP?
I was told it was just the cam, that 383 A/C (330hp) engines uses the cam as the 383 2bbl engine.And the 335hp engine uses the R.R./magnum cam.(just what I was told, I do not know this as fact,just what was told to me)

Could it be the carb?(A/C has Holley vs non air Carter?)
I also would love to know what makes the 5 hp difference between the motors.? And what tin my car should have on it?
Thanks, hope to learn the thing that make the motors different.
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 07:00 PM

I was also told,a while back, that all 4bbl Big block engines in 2nd gen Chargers, were Magnum engines, no matter the color it is painted. Because it was Dodge's performance engine in its performance car, and all A/C car engines were blue,but in a Charger it was called a Magnum.

Again I do not know that to be a fact, I am not trying to argue with anyone, I am just saying what I was told years ago by some guys, I am just trying to educate myself on the matter.

I mean you can't even feel a 5 hp difference in a 330hp vs 335hp 383 anyway, and I think the HP and torque #'s are rated at same rpm on the motors.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 08:49 PM

Now we're getting somewhere .....

HP manifolds is a misnomer - per CHRYLER they are "DUAL EXHAUST MANIFOLDS"

All HP engines have dual exhaust, all dual exhaust car do NOT have HP engines.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 08:54 PM

1968 B-body

the only 383HP 4bbl 335hp engines were installed in Road Runners and Super Bees

these engines included the 440HP's cam/valve springs/windage tray

(the Charger & other b-bodies 383 4bbl 330hp had the same cam as the 383 2bbl)
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 08:57 PM

fantasy "pie tins" have existed for decades

every car did not receive one & they were not available for every engine
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 08:59 PM

the 1970 Charger was the first year that all of the 383 4bbl engines used were of the "383 MAGNUM" variety (383HP)
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 09:40 PM

So it is safe to say, in my case because my car is so complete and missing only the org rims(but I got org wheel covers)and it had 70' front seats,and everything else that my car did not have a pie tin on it.
Again I am just basing that on the fact I have most every part for my car,even the jack and lug wrench, and the org carb and air cleaner are there, and that you have said not all cars had pie tins.
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 09:45 PM

So Dan, what you are saying is that the exhaust manifolds that everyone calls HP manifolds are called Duel Exhaust manifolds by Chrysler?
SO any engine with those manifolds IS a HP(MAGNUM) Engine?
And that would mean that no 69 Chargers with 383 4bbl A/C engines had the "Duel Exhaust"(HP)Manifolds?
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 10:20 PM

Originally Posted By Bad B-rad
This is my first post here, I had almost this exact question on another site.

SO I have a 69 Charger 383 4bbl A/C 330HP car.
My car is a #'s matching car that is low miles (7,000) and mostly org shape.
It came to me with #'s matching 383 4bbl(Holley)carb, A/C(330HP) engine painted blue(turquoise) and a duel snorkel air cleaner.
It had no pie tin.
My question would be what pie tin should I have,383 4bbl,or 383 Magnum? and do I have the correct air cleaner?
Most 69 383 4bbl A/C cars I have looked up, have the duel snorkel, but I have also come across ever possible combo of color engine and air cleaner and pie tins you could imagine.
SO what is factory correct?
Also what makes the 383 330hp vs the 383 335HP?
I was told it was just the cam, that 383 A/C (330hp) engines uses the cam as the 383 2bbl engine.And the 335hp engine uses the R.R./magnum cam.(just what I was told, I do not know this as fact,just what was told to me)

Could it be the carb?(A/C has Holley vs non air Carter?)
I also would love to know what makes the 5 hp difference between the motors.? And what tin my car should have on it?
Thanks, hope to learn the thing that make the motors different.


Might be wrong but the only 383 engine that used a Holly was the 70 all the others AFB-AVS. 2 cams low performance and high performance + 6 barrel type, same specs just different lobe angle. Each engine each year shared the same head just springs where different, (67 had different ex valve size LP to HP) Chrysler did some stupid things but they did keep it simple on this stuff. Way to many 383 Hemi six-packs out there.
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 10:26 PM

Originally Posted By BSB67


The lift is not that different, like 0.020" more. I have the numbers, just to lazy to go get them. The duration is bigger as well, and the real reason for the performance increase.

None of the "purple shafts" were installed by the factory. The original purples shaft/shafts were a step up or more from what was installed from the factory in wedge motors. I guess now you can purchase a resto cam from MP. Maybe it is called a purple cam too.



Damn! sometimes I forgett I have the direct conection performance book!!

Actually my 74 Mopar parts catalog matches the number posted there for the HiPo camshaft, 3512907 camshaft... used on all 383/400 HP and 440 HP, but this means the 335 383 or 330 383 ? so the 330 383 is not an HP still being a magnum ?

then there is a superseded number for it, 4071002 camshaft one of them I have it NOS on its original box, and is purple.

now... does that number takes to the MP 4452783 ?

then read it better on some other section and the 335 383 camshaft takes the stock 3512907... which by the direct conection book is 268-284 camsshaft with 450 lift... that meets the MP 4452783 spec and the fact the higher camshaft used from factory is a purple one

but still on the previous section talking about stock assemblies, is not clear what is considered a 383 HP to take one or the other being the 330 or the 335 engine.

pics of books later
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 10:31 PM

My 69 383 4bbl A/C car has duel exhaust,with what looks to be factory "H" pipe and hangers and mufflers.
And I now think I figured out the yellow crayon 68 written on the front of my pass side valve cover is not a 68 it is an 899 and one 9 is gone and its written upside down.
I will now have to go see if the pipes and mufflers have any numbers on them so I can figure out this semi-mystery!!!


Also do 383HP MAGNUM ROAD RUNNER 335Horse engines use the same pistons as 383 330horse pistons, or do the 335horse motors have valve pockets in them?
Could you put a "RoadRunner/Magnum" cam in the 330hp 383 with 2bbl cam with out causing any damage? I know my engine(330horse) the pistons almost have a positive deck height at TDC.
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 10:34 PM

Originally Posted By Bad B-rad
I was also told,a while back, that all 4bbl Big block engines in 2nd gen Chargers, were Magnum engines, no matter the color it is painted. Because it was Dodge's performance engine in its performance car, and all A/C car engines were blue,but in a Charger it was called a Magnum.



well the color change on Magnums is a 69/71 setup, but we had pre 68 engines being magnum and turqoise, same as post 72 being corporated blue... no matter if A/C or not. Thats doesn't eliminate the magnum spec ( or supercommando on plymouths )
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 10:37 PM

ok, this is an oooold file I have had saved and forgott about it untill now, but really dunno how to read everyone of these specs. I think we can find some conclusions here

Attached picture camstock2.gif
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 10:41 PM

[CUDAMAN [/quote]

Might be wrong but the only 383 engine that used a Holly was the 70 all the others AFB-AVS. 2 cams low performance and high performance + 6 barrel type, same specs just different lobe angle. Each engine each year shared the same head just springs where different, (67 had different ex valve size LP to HP) Chrysler did some stupid things but they did keep it simple on this stuff. Way to many 383 Hemi six-packs out there.[/quote]


No,I looked up the numbers on my Holley in the little white numbers books I have and it comes back as a 69 383 4bbl(with a note 570cfm).
I THINK that big block cars with air used the Holley carbs.
Because most every 69 383 w A/C I have looked at had duel snorkel air cleaner and Holley carb. So my car DID org have a Holley, but WHY it did, I do not know I can only guess, the above reason.
Posted By: 375inStroke

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 10:42 PM

Specs are
383 2V, 330HP 4V, and 350HP 440
256°/260° .425"/.435"

335HP 383, and 475HP 440
268°/284° .450"/.458"
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 10:54 PM

Ok, pics of my 74 catalog and DC book

This "prooves" the basic of the Purple shafts is the highest of the production shafts.


Last file is on the DC section talking about the upgrade suggestions


Attached picture IMG_4811.JPG
Attached picture IMG_4812.JPG
Attached picture IMG_4813.JPG
Attached picture IMG_4814.JPG
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 11:05 PM

Now That is some VERY helpful info!!!!!!
I will be saving all of those screen shots!!
So it looks as if I may be yanking out my cam and getting a "roadrunner/magnum" cam.


I only wish I could see dyno numbers from 1000rpm-6100rpm on the two different cams(335 vs 330) Just to see how much low numbers you give up switching the two.
Any body have a 330 hp 383 and put in a 335 cam, if so how differently is the car to drive?


Thanks for the above info!!!!!
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 11:21 PM

Now I'm noticing a debate never thought it was to come and it is about the HP exhaust manifolds... which I think is CLEAR all magnum engines were with them.

My main concern is it seems the 335 hp 383 is MORE MAGNUM than the other LOL.

And per the mopar parts catalog, the 400 magnum got the same camshaft than the 383 335 engine, being a lower performance engine
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/17/17 11:45 PM

'68 Dodge Specs:

Attached picture 68_383_4bbl_Comparisons.jpg
Posted By: 3hundred

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/18/17 12:41 AM

Originally Posted By NachoRT74
[quote=BSB67]

then there is a superseded number for it, 4071002 camshaft one of them I have it NOS on its original box, and is purple.


I vaguely recall that number, it was a newer "smog" cam, same lift and duration but altered timing events.

Robert
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/18/17 01:10 AM

Not per DC book.
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/18/17 02:15 AM

Originally Posted By 375inStroke
Specs are
383 2V, 330HP 4V, and 350HP 440
256°/260° .425"/.435"

335HP 383, and 475HP 440
268°/284° .450"/.458"


I missed this post!

Thats sounds like the dealer databooks says, but DC book seems to be slightly contradictory

So, any 383 4V is a magnum still with standard cam and springs, and all got HiPo exhaust manifolds. But the 335HP is a magnum "plus"

And any 400 4V is also a magnum BUT they got all the "high lift" cam, still with the lower compression rate. LOL
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/18/17 02:31 AM

Well that goes back to what I was told years ago that the 383"magnum" was born by putting the same heads on it as the 440. So by that thinking any 4bbl 383 from 68-71 is a Magnum. So is it just a "Magnum" when the 383/400/440 share heads? Like pre 68 383's had there own head,a 67 383 had its own head,67 440 had it's own head.

And I just wanted to know if Dodge called my 69 383 4bbl/duel exhaust 330hp engine a 383 Magnum or 383 4bbl for my air cleaner!!!LOL
But I love learning Mopar stuff!!!
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/18/17 02:56 AM

Well just going by the 1969 Charger sales book, the only engine that has the title MAGNUM attached to it at all is the 440.
So as far as Dodge was concerned I guess its a 383 2Bbl or 383 4Bbl, and the R/T 's 440 MAGNUM.

I thought that if you had a non A/C 383 4Bbl in a Charger it was a Magnum, but going by the 69 sales book nope, never. Only 383 4Bbl was the 330HP one, in a Charger in 69.
And it looks as if (at least the photo in the sales book) duel snorkel, no pie tin.
Posted By: formula_s

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/18/17 03:27 AM

the reason for this pissing match is the original question is not specific enough to answer the question properly



This urine spraying match comes up about once every year, never gets settled.
Posted By: 69CoronetRT

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/18/17 07:33 AM

Originally Posted By NachoRT74
Originally Posted By 375inStroke
Specs are
383 2V, 330HP 4V, and 350HP 440
256°/260° .425"/.435"

335HP 383, and 475HP 440
268°/284° .450"/.458"




So, any 383 4V is a magnum still with standard cam and springs, and all got HiPo exhaust manifolds. But the 335HP is a magnum "plus"


No.

The 383-4 335 horse was introduced in 68 with the Road Runner. The difference between it and the 330 horse assembly was, basically, it used the higher lift cam and springs introduced the year before in the GTX and Coronet R/T. The carb was different than the 330 horse as well as the 335 was intended to get a windage tray.

The 906 heads were used on all 68 big blocks. The springs were different with the 335 but not the head casting.
As Dan stated earlier, there are no HP exhaust manifolds. There are two and 4bbl manifolds.

When Dodge brought out the Super Bee mid year, they used the 335 horse assembly and called it the Magnum.

The 335 horse variant of the 383-4 was used from 68-70. The applications changed each year. In 68 only the RR and SB without A/C got the 335 assembly.
In 69, any B body with manual transmission without A/C and the RR or SB with either transmission and without A/C got the 335 horse version. Any 69 B body with A/C got the 330 horse. Any non RR or SB B body (Charger, Satellite, Coronet) with automatic transmission got the 330 horse.

The 1970 applications get a little more convoluted with the use of the 335 horse in B and E bodies. However, there was a 335 horse assembly available with A/C in 1970.

Properly and originally, the term 383 Magnum refers to a 68-70 Dodge with the 335 horse version. Dodge did use the term Magnum on other engines after 1970.

So....
1968: 383 Magnum in Super Bees without A/C.
1969: Manual transmission B bodies without A/C OR a Super Bee with either transmission and without A/C. So no 69 Charger with A/C or automatic would have the 335 horse Magnum.
Posted By: NANKET

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/18/17 07:52 AM

Magnum is a Dodge term on some engines. Super Commando is a Plymouth term.
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/18/17 03:02 PM

Wow so much bad information
Posted By: SuperRob

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/18/17 05:24 PM

Originally Posted By 69CoronetRT
...
The 383-4 335 horse was introduced in 68 with the Road Runner. The difference between ...

Thank you!
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/18/17 08:32 PM

I think that if what was said above is true, about the exhaust manifolds, that there is a 2bbl and 4 bbl and there is no HP exhaust manifolds,that has also helped fuel the confusion.
Because everyone says the HP exhaust manifolds were only on HI-Po engines(AKA MAGNUM/ROADRUNNER) And my 69 charger 383(blue 330hp) 4bbl with A/C has duel exhaust and the four barrel exhaust manifolds.
So by seeing the four barrel exhaust manifolds and everyone calling them HP manifolds you would think that I have the HP engine (AKA MAGNUM) when it is really the 330 hp version.
and I would guess that unless you can hear the two engines side by side to hear the different cam shafts(if you can even hear a difference)that you could paint a blue engine orange and slap on the pie tin and then confuse the hell out of everyone!LOL
So I bet the exhaust manifolds added to the issue we are talking about.
Posted By: Mebsuta

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/18/17 11:23 PM

Originally Posted By 69CoronetRT


Properly and originally, the term 383 Magnum refers to a 68-70 Dodge with the 335 horse version. Dodge did use the term Magnum on other engines after 1970.



I agree.
Posted By: FK5

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 12:29 AM

Originally Posted By Bad B-rad
My 69 383 4bbl A/C car has duel exhaust,with what looks to be factory "H" pipe and hangers and mufflers.
And I now think I figured out the yellow crayon 68 written on the front of my pass side valve cover is not a 68 it is an 899 and one 9 is gone and its written upside down.
I will now have to go see if the pipes and mufflers have any numbers on them so I can figure out this semi-mystery!!!


Also do 383HP MAGNUM ROAD RUNNER 335Horse engines use the same pistons as 383 330horse pistons, or do the 335horse motors have valve pockets in them?
Could you put a "RoadRunner/Magnum" cam in the 330hp 383 with 2bbl cam with out causing any damage? I know my engine(330horse) the pistons almost have a positive deck height at TDC.


These guys are probably more knowledgable than me, but I don't think there is such a thing as a "factory H-pipe." Just FYI since you are talking about swapping a cam nobody will ever see for originality...
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 03:54 AM

After all these years is hard to find an all original Mopar from fact, but looikng at this, maybe...

http://bringatrailer.com/2014/03/20/all-original-driver-1968-dodge-charger-383/

Magnum engine? Mmm
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 04:07 AM

Another Charger with 383... Magnum?

https://youtu.be/eApCxdPxLmw

Sellers says is matching numbers and original miles engine. Driver side manifold seems to be HiPo one.
Posted By: Thread Ender1

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 05:59 AM

Just because that 68 charger has a 383 magnum pie tin doesn't make it one. So I'm reading a bunch of jibberich..is the concensess that 330 horse has no windage tray? Right?
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 07:18 AM

orange pie tins didn't come out 'til 1970 model year
Posted By: 69CoronetRT

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 07:41 AM

Originally Posted By NachoRT74
After all these years is hard to find an all original Mopar from fact, but looikng at this, maybe...

http://bringatrailer.com/2014/03/20/all-original-driver-1968-dodge-charger-383/

Magnum engine? Mmm


Nacho....what part has been unclear about applications of the 335 horse assembly in 1968?
Posted By: 69CoronetRT

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 07:43 AM

Originally Posted By NachoRT74
Another Charger with 383... Magnum?

https://youtu.be/eApCxdPxLmw

Sellers says is matching numbers and original miles engine. Driver side manifold seems to be HiPo one.


What part was unclear about the A/C application in 1969?
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 02:29 PM


Sorry, somehow missed that... no AC on 68/69 383 Magnum/SuperCommandos? soo the you couldn't get a Superbee/RR with AC ?

Was just 68/69 or also up to 71?

Originally Posted By Blue_Bomb
Just because that 68 charger has a 383 magnum pie tin doesn't make it one.


Of course I know, but they seems to be born there!

On a side note! ( a bit off topic ) How does the pie tin air cleaner takes the air? I can't find any entry on them
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 04:47 PM

Originally Posted By Bad B-rad
[CUDAMAN


Might be wrong but the only 383 engine that used a Holly was the 70 all the others AFB-AVS. 2 cams low performance and high performance + 6 barrel type, same specs just different lobe angle. Each engine each year shared the same head just springs where different, (67 had different ex valve size LP to HP) Chrysler did some stupid things but they did keep it simple on this stuff. Way to many 383 Hemi six-packs out there.[/quote]


No,I looked up the numbers on my Holley in the little white numbers books I have and it comes back as a 69 383 4bbl(with a note 570cfm).
I THINK that big block cars with air used the Holley carbs.
Because most every 69 383 w A/C I have looked at had duel snorkel air cleaner and Holley carb. So my car DID org have a Holley, but WHY it did, I do not know I can only guess, the above reason. [/quote]



Per FSM in 69


Attached picture image.jpeg
Attached picture image.jpeg
Attached picture image.jpeg
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 04:58 PM

Originally Posted By elmor353
335 hp engines usually got the HP exhaust manifolds, while the 330 hp engines usually got logs like the 2bbls.


Incorrect, 330HP engine in 68/69/70 ... which is the engine he asks about ... is a 4bbl engine with what people refer to as the HP manifolds.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 05:00 PM

Originally Posted By 68mannix
the difference is that the 335 horse engine got a windage tray and the 330 horse engine did not that's the 5 horse difference.


did you type that with a straight face ?
Posted By: Triggerfish

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 05:00 PM

Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Originally Posted By Bad B-rad
[CUDAMAN


Might be wrong but the only 383 engine that used a Holly was the 70 all the others AFB-AVS. 2 cams low performance and high performance + 6 barrel type, same specs just different lobe angle. Each engine each year shared the same head just springs where different, (67 had different ex valve size LP to HP) Chrysler did some stupid things but they did keep it simple on this stuff. Way to many 383 Hemi six-packs out there.



No,I looked up the numbers on my Holley in the little white numbers books I have and it comes back as a 69 383 4bbl(with a note 570cfm).
I THINK that big block cars with air used the Holley carbs.
Because most every 69 383 w A/C I have looked at had duel snorkel air cleaner and Holley carb. So my car DID org have a Holley, but WHY it did, I do not know I can only guess, the above reason. [/quote]



Per FSM in 69
[/quote]
You're right, some 70 383 Super Commandos did have Holleys. In 70, I bought a new 70 383, 4 speed 'Cuda with A/C off the showroom at Sam Krug Chrysler Plymouth in Vegas & it had the twin snorkel, black air cleaner with a Holley. First thing I did was remove the A/C compressor to save weight, install headers & a small triangular air cleaner with a foam element that melted into the carb whenever the Holley backfired. Dumb kid I was. Threw a rod thru the block racing my friend's big buick on the freeway & bye bye went the 'Cuda.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 05:01 PM

Originally Posted By NachoRT74

Sorry, somehow missed that... no AC on 68/69 383 Magnum/SuperCommandos? soo the you couldn't get a Superbee/RR with AC ?

Was just 68/69 or also up to 71?

Originally Posted By Blue_Bomb
Just because that 68 charger has a 383 magnum pie tin doesn't make it one.


Of course I know, but they seems to be born there!

On a side note! ( a bit off topic ) How does the pie tin air cleaner takes the air? I can't find any entry on them


Yes you could get a road runner, and supebee, with A/C , it would have the 330HP engine instead of the 335hp .
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 05:06 PM

Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Originally Posted By Bad B-rad
Originally Posted By cudaman1969


Might be wrong but the only 383 engine that used a Holly was the 70 all the others AFB-AVS. 2 cams low performance and high performance + 6 barrel type, same specs just different lobe angle. Each engine each year shared the same head just springs where different, (67 had different ex valve size LP to HP) Chrysler did some stupid things but they did keep it simple on this stuff. Way to many 383 Hemi six-packs out there.



No,I looked up the numbers on my Holley in the little white numbers books I have and it comes back as a 69 383 4bbl(with a note 570cfm).
I THINK that big block cars with air used the Holley carbs.
Because most every 69 383 w A/C I have looked at had duel snorkel air cleaner and Holley carb. So my car DID org have a Holley, but WHY it did, I do not know I can only guess, the above reason.




Per FSM in 69


I haven't seen 69 383 4 bbls with A/C and holleys in 69 , the 4bbl manifolds before 1970 were not holley friendly.

And don't take the LITTLE WHITE BOOK info as gospel, Galen has admitted it has mistakes ...
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 05:08 PM

Originally Posted By Fab64
It wasn't just the cams; the other difference in the engines was the HP used 440 heads. Sorry I don't have the cam specs - they should be available online.


Did you type that with a straight face ?
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 05:10 PM

Originally Posted By GTX MATT
Wow so much bad information


no kidding
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 05:23 PM

Originally Posted By Bad B-rad
My 69 383 4bbl A/C car has duel exhaust,with what looks to be factory "H" pipe and hangers and mufflers.
And I now think I figured out the yellow crayon 68 written on the front of my pass side valve cover is not a 68 it is an 899 and one 9 is gone and its written upside down.
I will now have to go see if the pipes and mufflers have any numbers on them so I can figure out this semi-mystery!!!


Also do 383HP MAGNUM ROAD RUNNER 335Horse engines use the same pistons as 383 330horse pistons, or do the 335horse motors have valve pockets in them?
Could you put a "RoadRunner/Magnum" cam in the 330hp 383 with 2bbl cam with out causing any damage? I know my engine(330horse) the pistons almost have a positive deck height at TDC.


Someone changed the headpipes on that car, there isn't an H pipe on any 383 Mopar , only on 440hp, 6pk 70/71 and Hemi cars.

The 383 330hp and 335 hp engine in 68 and 69 have the same pistons, .0025 in the hole with NO VALVE RELIEFS, there is only flat top or big round shallow dish pistons in 383's.

Yes you can put the 4bbl cam in your motor and if your pistons are positive deck height then someone cut that block or Chrysler screwed the pooch machining it originally because no 383's have a positive deck height piston from the factory ... you want to change your valve springs also with your cam change, the 4 bbl cam used a spring with an internal flat wire damper spring also.

The crayon mark I don't think is 899, the number is the engine assembly number ... I'd have to do some digging to find out what the 69 A/C equipped 383 engine assembly number is.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 05:30 PM

Originally Posted By BlueRacer69
Okay you call it one thing, I call it another. The principal still the same. And I don't believe the so called windage tray made 5 horse power difference. It was in the more restrictive exhaust manifolds.


No , the principle is not the same, it's not even close, the baffles in the B body and A body pan do not do anything the same as a windage tray.

The baffles are for oil sloshing on accell and decell, the windage tray as made by chrysler, slows the oil getting back to the sump ... but it's supposed to keep the crank windage from foaming the oil
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 06:23 PM

As far as the blue charger for sale in above post:
Well mine is a 69, not a 68, but I THINK that A/C big blocks had the duel snorkel air cleaners(68/69 B-body) So maybe that was changed a while back, because the one he has looks much cooler then the duel snorkel.
Also the fuel line looks to be going to the wrong spot,as if maybe the carb has been swaped?
Again maybe its different in 68 vs 69, but 69 A/C 383 got Holley.

I was told on a different site that 68/69 big block A/C, 4Bbl cars all got Holley carbs.

That may be the fuel line for the Carter?

Back to the other topic:

I don't take the little white books as gospel,just a point in the right direction, but the numbers on my Holley carb come back as a 69, 383 a/c carb, so my car being a 69 383 A/c Charger, I am guessing it the correct (org ) carb. The car is 45+ years old so it could have been changed.
My car has 7,000 miles it was hit hard in driver 1/4 panel over 37 years ago and has been parked from then on, so most of all the stuff on my car looks factory. But anything could have been changed/swapped, I don't personally know.
The build sheet has the engine # as 899 that's how I came to that conclusion about yellow crayon mark on pass side valve cover.
At first,I thought it was a 68, but after looking at build sheet and the valve cover I now think it may have read 899.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 06:49 PM

Originally Posted By Bad B-rad
Well mine is a 69, not a 68, but I THINK that A/C big blocks had the duel snorkel air cleaners(68/69 B-body) ...........

I was told on a different site that 68/69 big block A/C, 4Bbl cars all got Holley carbs.


too much wrong info/thinking in this one post .....

work B-rad, you'd be best to start your own thread giving specifics of your car and the questions you have.

1969 383HP 4bbl originally used Carter AVS carbs ONLY
1969 383 4bbl used HOLLEY carbs with and without A/C
1969 383 4bbl & 383HP 4bbl both originally used dual exhaust manifolds (as pictured below)


Attached picture 69photo 1.JPG
Posted By: Thread Ender1

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 06:56 PM

Originally Posted By JohnRR
Originally Posted By NachoRT74

Sorry, somehow missed that... no AC on 68/69 383 Magnum/SuperCommandos? soo the you couldn't get a Superbee/RR with AC ?

Was just 68/69 or also up to 71?

Originally Posted By Blue_Bomb
Just because that 68 charger has a 383 magnum pie tin doesn't make it one.


Of course I know, but they seems to be born there!

On a side note! ( a bit off topic ) How does the pie tin air cleaner takes the air? I can't find any entry on them


Yes you could get a road runner, and supebee, with A/C , it would have the 330HP engine instead of the 335hp .
yes because there is no windage tray.
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 07:05 PM

I agree with you on what you said above.
But in 69 383 A/C,Automatic Used Holley Carbs #R4440(4160 series)


They did NOT use the Holley carbs in 68.
They also used Holley in 1970 with the N/96 and N96+n95
And 71

I do not know why they did this. And I am not trying to argue with anyone as I am not an expert.
I was told it was just A/C cars in 69, that used the Holley.


Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 07:13 PM

My org question was just about 68/69 Chargers and if the 3834bbl(330hp) engine in them was called a Magnum.
I just wanted to get the right pie tin for my motor.
And that question has been answered.

Then some other things poped up that were interesting, I have learned a few things from this thread!!!
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 07:22 PM

Here is an OK acrticle on it.
Nice chart towards the end.
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-0111-chrysler-oem-carburetors/
Posted By: 68mannix

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 07:50 PM

Johnrr did you type that jibberish with a straight face lmfao
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 07:56 PM

Originally Posted By Bad B-rad
I agree with you on what you said above.
But in 69 383 A/C,Automatic Used Holley Carbs #R4440(4160 series)


They did NOT use the Holley carbs in 68.
They also used Holley in 1970 with the N/96 and N96+n95
And 71

I do not know why they did this. And I am not trying to argue with anyone as I am not an expert.
I was told it was just A/C cars in 69, that used the Holley.



Those pics I gave where from a 1969 factory service manual, the only Holly it listed was a 440 and if I'm not mistaken only for a c-body.
Being from that time era and working for my uncle's Dodge dealership, my understanding was the 300-330 hp engine had the more restrictive a-body manifold and the 335 hp the other one. Have to ask Rhino if one of his 383 Darts came with the windage tray in 68-69. My m-code 440 has the tray and the a-body pan. Always thought that tray was worth more than 5 hp. Besides 330 was at 5000 and 335 was at 5200, that 200 could equal 5 hp. Just a numbers game
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 08:03 PM

Originally Posted By JohnRR
Originally Posted By NachoRT74

Sorry, somehow missed that... no AC on 68/69 383 Magnum/SuperCommandos? soo the you couldn't get a Superbee/RR with AC ?

Was just 68/69 or also up to 71?

Originally Posted By Blue_Bomb
Just because that 68 charger has a 383 magnum pie tin doesn't make it one.


Of course I know, but they seems to be born there!

On a side note! ( a bit off topic ) How does the pie tin air cleaner takes the air? I can't find any entry on them


Yes you could get a road runner, and supebee, with A/C , it would have the 330HP engine instead of the 335hp .


yes, just read that, but it seems on 69, not in 68
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 08:09 PM

Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Besides 330 was at 5000 and 335 was at 5200, that 200 could equal 5 hp. Just a numbers game


no need for that, you can get an hp curve going down or flat from 5000 instead keep growing
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 08:25 PM

Originally Posted By 69CoronetRT

In 69, any B body with manual transmission without A/C and the RR or SB with either transmission and without A/C got the 335 horse version.


mid year change on B bodies ?( but SB and RR ) is not on dealership databooks... or I missed

in any of the cases... optional or standard on this setup ?

Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 10:21 PM

If you rebuild the engine non of this stuff matters. You're going to replace stuff and upgrade things. So if no windage tray for example, you'll add one or do a crank scraper. And so on. Pistons cam etc same deal. If you have logs, in the trash they go.
Posted By: BSB67

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/19/17 11:36 PM

Originally Posted By NachoRT74
Originally Posted By BSB67


The lift is not that different, like 0.020" more. I have the numbers, just to lazy to go get them. The duration is bigger as well, and the real reason for the performance increase.

None of the "purple shafts" were installed by the factory. The original purples shaft/shafts were a step up or more from what was installed from the factory in wedge motors. I guess now you can purchase a resto cam from MP. Maybe it is called a purple cam too.



Damn! sometimes I forgett I have the direct conection performance book!!

Actually my 74 Mopar parts catalog matches the number posted there for the HiPo camshaft, 3512907 camshaft... used on all 383/400 HP and 440 HP, but this means the 335 383 or 330 383 ? so the 330 383 is not an HP still being a magnum ?

then there is a superseded number for it, 4071002 camshaft one of them I have it NOS on its original box, and is purple.

then read it better on some other section and the 335 383 camshaft takes the stock 3512907... which by the direct conection book is 268-284 camsshaft with 450 lift... that meets the MP 4452783 spec and the fact the higher camshaft used from factory is a purple one



If you are talking "original" purple shaft, I think your dot connecting might be flawed.

What Direct Connection and Mopar Performance called "Purple Shafts" back in the 1970s started with the "Hemi Grind", I believe, followed by the 484 and 292, previously Racer Brown SSH-25 and -44 respectively. As years went by, the family of "purple shaft" grew and at some point added the replacement cam you have. I don't recall anyone in the 1970s or 1980 calling the factory cam a "purple cam", or running out to by one.

Could be mistaken.



Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 03:26 AM

The original direct Connection Chrysler HP street cams that where non Racer Brown, Crane and Cam Dynamics race roller cams for the wedge motors where the infamous "Street Hemi 284 Purple Shaft" grind that made absolutely no manifold vacuum and didn't work worth a hoot IMO down I sold one to a customer, garage owner and friend of mine that put it into a original 1968 Dodge Charger 383 330 HP car with a 727, I went over to his shop one night and helped him degree it in properly, I also made sure later that it started right away and was broken in properly. He drove the car around the block once and pulled that cam out and bought and installed R.V. cam so the car would stop more than once in traffic, the car belong to a 18 year old kid that wrapped it around a power pole in less than three months after getting the car back from the engine over haul whiney shruggy
I've used some of the Mopar OEM replacement cam kits for SB like the 1968 340 automatic that they use to sell, it work okay shruggy
Iskys, Comp Cams, Lunati and other cam brands I can't think of right now worked better shruggy
Posted By: 69CoronetRT

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 03:26 AM

Originally Posted By JohnRR




The crayon mark I don't think is 899, the number is the engine assembly number ... I'd have to do some digging to find out what the 69 A/C equipped 383 engine assembly number is .


899 auto and A/C
897 four speed with A/C
Posted By: 69CoronetRT

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 03:31 AM

Originally Posted By NachoRT74
Originally Posted By JohnRR
Originally Posted By NachoRT74

Sorry, somehow missed that... no AC on 68/69 383 Magnum/SuperCommandos? soo the you couldn't get a Superbee/RR with AC ?

Was just 68/69 or also up to 71?

Originally Posted By Blue_Bomb
Just because that 68 charger has a 383 magnum pie tin doesn't make it one.


Of course I know, but they seems to be born there!

On a side note! ( a bit off topic ) How does the pie tin air cleaner takes the air? I can't find any entry on them


Yes you could get a road runner, and supebee, with A/C , it would have the 330HP engine instead of the 335hp .


yes, just read that, but it seems on 69, not in 68


Yes, you could get the RR or SB in 68 with ac. You got the 330 horse engine.
Posted By: 69CoronetRT

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 03:36 AM

Originally Posted By NachoRT74
Originally Posted By 69CoronetRT

In 69, any B body with manual transmission without A/C and the RR or SB with either transmission and without A/C got the 335 horse version.


mid year change on B bodies ?( but SB and RR ) is not on dealership databooks... or I missed

in any of the cases... optional or standard on this setup ?



69 B bodies with manual tranny and no ac got the 335 horse. Not optional, not mid year change. Plants like standardization and easy. Having a 330 horse manual no ac was a bit of overkill. It would be just as easy to use the 335 horse manual version rather than assembling a 330 horse manual version.

Dealer books don't get into specific applications.
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 02:06 PM

Ok... so more less in conclussion these are the basic ( waiting to be corrected yet ) at least for 68 and 69... 70 and 71 s are a kinda diff story what we haven't talked completelly yet. Some questions still on this post.

383 2 bbl
Standard camshaft standard valve springs, no windage tray, low compression pistons, dual snorkel air cleaner, standard exhaust manifolds.... cast or forged crank ? I think all got still forged in those years. Tourquoise paint. I guess single timming chain

383 4 bbl 330
Standard camshaft standard valve springs, windage tray ( still debating ), high compression pistons, dual snorkel air cleaner, HP exhaust manifolds ( seems to be a standard agreement but still some doubts ), forged crank. No Magnum/supercommando denomination so, no HP stamp? Turquoise paint, I guess double timing chain ?

383 4 bbl 335
High performance ( 440 Magnum ) camshaft, valve springs with dampener, windage tray, high compression pistons, pie tin air cleaner, HP exhaust manifolds, forged crank. Magnum/supercommando denomination so, HP stamp. Orange paint from 69 but still turquoise on 68 ? Of course double timing chain.

Camshafts specs were posted allong the thread and the Magnum one is the MP purpleshaft one, the first one of the list. DC book adds a bit of confusion on the info thought.

Then we have another details floated on here like the cars they came in, carbs used, which got AC and which not, what were good adds yo the thread I wasn't really asking initially but is ALLWAYS good to know. I guess some other differences could be around like the bearings used on ones or the others.

I guess the valve springs are different NOT just due the dampener but the specs itself are also different... harder and stuff...

I think the orange paint on all magnum/supercomando engines began in 69, right?

A bit off topic I added another question and it was, WHERE takes the air the unsilenced ( pie tin ) air cleaner? I can't find any opening on them!
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 02:37 PM

Need to add some notes about what I told about purple shafts.

I'm not saying the magnum cam was called purple shaft back in the days, but it is now and since sometime in the past ( what I can't tell ). I was calling it on the way is actually.

Need to say however, the superseded 4071002 production replacement cam, which I have one NOS on its original factory/dealer box, not being MP or DC labeled thought just regular Chrysler logo and Mopar print on box ( like any regular replacement part ), OF THE 3512907 production for HP engines ( stated on my 74 Parts catalog like that but I guess an earlier PN on earlier catalogs, something like 28xxxxx ), IT GOT purple paint. I have the pic of the camshaft somewhere posted. Can't say the ones original installed on engines from factory got the purple finish or if DC book would call it Purple shaft, but the replacement parts dealer piece I have got the purple finish. Aaand meets the MP 4452783 specs, plus the MP catalog descriptions it like the Magnum replacement, being purple.

EDITING, this is an ooooold thread on dc.com where I posted the PN cross reference when I bought the camshaft. Maybe some other numbers are missed on the way up to the last MP one. Pics are there and you can see the purple finish on the one I got.

Magnum/Supercomando camshaft PN crossreference
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 04:19 PM

On the air cleaner, air comes in from the bottom edge, the cover is a larger diameter than the base. No cast cranks till the 400. I'm not positive but I think I remember seeing a pinkish- purple mark on the stock hipo cam too. The two springs are different, got both. My book shows two 383 engines in 69, 2 & 4 barrel, 2 bbl got the small cam 4 bbl got the big cam, it shows Barracuda and Road Runner having same engine. Couldn't find anything about the windage tray. Been a long time, can't remember all the stuff.
Posted By: 69CoronetRT

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 05:52 PM

From 68-70, there are two versions of the 383-4. The 330 horse and the 335 horse. The install applications vary by year.

Books and websites, generally, do not cover in detail the various applications for each year and assembly.
Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 06:31 PM

Boy,all this for 5 hp,glad it isn't 50 hp !! rolleyes
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 06:49 PM

Lol, not about 5hp, but just the correct setup on each one... informative thread
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 06:52 PM

Originally Posted By cudaman1969
On the air cleaner, air comes in from the bottom edge, the cover is a larger diameter than the base.


Gotcha, just detailing some dissasembled cleaners at nicksgarage website and can note now you mention the base is just about the filter element diameter due the recession shape I seeing, and the top supports over the element not over the base, then get an extra room after the support area for it.



Originally Posted By cudaman1969
No cast cranks till the 400.


Pretty sure on 70 and 71 383 2 bbls got cast
Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 07:24 PM

Originally Posted By NachoRT74
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
On the air cleaner, air comes in from the bottom edge, the cover is a larger diameter than the base.


Gotcha, just detailing some dissasembled cleaners at nicksgarage website and can note now you mention the base is just about the filter element diameter due the recession shape I seeing, and the top supports over the element not over the base, then get an extra room after the support area for it.



Originally Posted By cudaman1969
No cast cranks till the 400.


Pretty sure on 70 and 71 383 2 bbls got cast


Non HP in 71 but forged in 70.
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 09:19 PM

Originally Posted By 62maxwgn
Originally Posted By NachoRT74
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
On the air cleaner, air comes in from the bottom edge, the cover is a larger diameter than the base.


Gotcha, just detailing some dissasembled cleaners at nicksgarage website and can note now you mention the base is just about the filter element diameter due the recession shape I seeing, and the top supports over the element not over the base, then get an extra room after the support area for it.



Originally Posted By cudaman1969
No cast cranks till the 400.


Pretty sure on 70 and 71 383 2 bbls got cast


Non HP in 71 but forged in 70.

Humm. I do have a 71 fury in the back with the 383-2 bbl. I'll that check out. Factory service manuals are pretty thorough.
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 09:21 PM

Per damper table here, it seems also 70s

http://www.440source.com/dampers.htm
Posted By: cdp

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 10:44 PM

"383 4 bbl 330
Standard camshaft standard valve springs, windage tray ( still debating ), high compression pistons, dual snorkel air cleaner, HP exhaust manifolds ( seems to be a standard agreement but still some doubts ), forged crank. No Magnum/supercommando denomination so, no HP stamp? Turquoise paint, I guess double timing chain ?"

I have a 69 Charger, H-code, 330 horse 383. Was 95% original when I got it. Engine is turquoise, not stamped as an HP motor. Factory HP manifolds, small round 340/383/440 HP air cleaner (no snorkels) with red 383 4-barrel pie tin . Standard 4v intake, and of course the car has A/C. I think the 69 manual states a specific carb...compared to HP stamped 383's (like 6 numbers listed). Did not have a double roller chain.

When I pulled the heads, they had red valve springs, and factory details that it had a standard 2v camshaft.

Essentially, it seems its a 2v- base motor with nothing more than a 4v intake, and HP exhaust manifolds. And all should have had AC.
Posted By: CSK

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 11:30 PM

Originally Posted By cdp
"383 4 bbl 330
Standard camshaft standard valve springs, windage tray ( still debating ), high compression pistons, dual snorkel air cleaner, HP exhaust manifolds ( seems to be a standard agreement but still some doubts ), forged crank. No Magnum/supercommando denomination so, no HP stamp? Turquoise paint, I guess double timing chain ?"

I have a 69 Charger, H-code, 330 horse 383. Was 95% original when I got it. Engine is turquoise, not stamped as an HP motor. Factory HP manifolds, small round 340/383/440 HP air cleaner (no snorkels) with red 383 4-barrel pie tin . Standard 4v intake, and of course the car has A/C. I think the 69 manual states a specific carb...compared to HP stamped 383's (like 6 numbers listed). Did not have a double roller chain.

When I pulled the heads, they had red valve springs, and factory details that it had a standard 2v camshaft.

Essentially, it seems its a 2v- base motor with nothing more than a 4v intake, and HP exhaust manifolds. And all should have had AC.


And flat top pistons instead of dished.
Posted By: Mebsuta

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 11:40 PM

Originally Posted By 62maxwgn
Boy,all this for 5 hp,glad it isn't 50 hp !! rolleyes


ikr. All to go as fast as a Nissan Altima. lol.
Posted By: cdp

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/20/17 11:45 PM

"And flat top pistons instead of dished."

Yes, mine is in the garage with original pistons. Did a basic rebuild/re-ring. Tall flat tops.
Posted By: cbusters

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 12:01 AM

I scanned through the posts in the thread and didn't notice anyone mentioning the fact that the 69 335hp 383 motor had positive deck height flat top pistons originally. It wasn't much but it kept anyone from just doing a quick bolt on of the 67 440 closed chamber heads to increase compression. You had to make sure your head gasket was thick enough to keep the piston from hitting the combustion chamber. When rebuilding the engines in the 70's, the catalog had a listing for both pistons, neutral and positive height. Consider this as a possibility as to why the horsepower rating was different. Eventually the taller pistons were just dropped from the books and like now only one is shown.

I recall this was one of the tips mentioned in the big yellow Direction Connection Racing Manual.

Perhaps Plymouth converted to the open chamber heads for emissions or some other Federal Mandate and the piston change was a little cheat to help performance.
Posted By: Mebsuta

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 12:10 AM

Originally Posted By cbusters
I scanned through the posts in the thread and didn't notice anyone mentioning the fact that the 69 335hp 383 motor had positive deck height flat top pistons originally.


If you mention that, somebody will insist that they weren't +dh, so I never say anything.
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 01:04 AM

How much over DH got your pistons?

( yes somebody mentioned about that )

Did 2bbl engines get dished instead lower CH pistons? I thought they were simply lower ones.
Posted By: BSB67

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 04:08 AM

Originally Posted By Mebsuta
Originally Posted By cbusters
I scanned through the posts in the thread and didn't notice anyone mentioning the fact that the 69 335hp 383 motor had positive deck height flat top pistons originally.


If you mention that, somebody will insist that they weren't +dh, so I never say anything.


How much + have you measured them?
Posted By: cbusters

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 05:14 AM

Originally Posted By BSB67
Originally Posted By Mebsuta
Originally Posted By cbusters
I scanned through the posts in the thread and didn't notice anyone mentioning the fact that the 69 335hp 383 motor had positive deck height flat top pistons originally.


If you mention that, somebody will insist that they weren't +dh, so I never say anything.


How much + have you measured them?


Long ago, far far away. It was less than .100 , if my yellow book surfaces I will check to see if it mentions it.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 06:14 AM

Originally Posted By Mebsuta
Originally Posted By cbusters
I scanned through the posts in the thread and didn't notice anyone mentioning the fact that the 69 335hp 383 motor had positive deck height flat top pistons originally.


If you mention that, somebody will insist that they weren't +dh, so I never say anything.


Paging johnrr
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 06:50 AM

Originally Posted By cbusters
I scanned through the posts in the thread and didn't notice anyone mentioning the fact that the 69 335hp 383 motor had positive deck height flat top pistons originally. It wasn't much but it kept anyone from just doing a quick bolt on of the 67 440 closed chamber heads to increase compression. You had to make sure your head gasket was thick enough to keep the piston from hitting the combustion chamber. When rebuilding the engines in the 70's, the catalog had a listing for both pistons, neutral and positive height. Consider this as a possibility as to why the horsepower rating was different. Eventually the taller pistons were just dropped from the books and like now only one is shown.

I recall this was one of the tips mentioned in the big yellow Direction Connection Racing Manual.

Perhaps Plymouth converted to the open chamber heads for emissions or some other Federal Mandate and the piston change was a little cheat to help performance.

Me thinks your source got it wrong on the year of the positive deck height pistons on the 383 Magnum motor, I'll swear it was only the 1970 383 magnum motors that had the Holley carbs also that where listed by Chrysler to NHRA tech. department with + .005 deck height, just like the 390 HP 440 6 pack motors where scope
Posted By: BSB67

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 12:09 PM

Originally Posted By cbusters
Originally Posted By BSB67
Originally Posted By Mebsuta
Originally Posted By cbusters
I scanned through the posts in the thread and didn't notice anyone mentioning the fact that the 69 335hp 383 motor had positive deck height flat top pistons originally.


If you mention that, somebody will insist that they weren't +dh, so I never say anything.


How much + have you measured them?


Long ago, far far away. It was less than .100 , if my yellow book surfaces I will check to see if it mentions it.


I've measured a few unaltered originals, they were all below the deck. The NHRA spec is like 0.020" proud, I have never seen one from the factory like that.

I knew a guy that ran an A body 383 car in Super Stock had to actually grind on the pistons to clear the 906 heads where the head overhung the bore.

The 1.932" CH piston was used in at least 1968 and 69 383, maybe 1970 too.
Posted By: BSB67

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 12:21 PM

Originally Posted By Cab_Burge

Me thinks your source got it wrong on the year of the positive deck height pistons on the 383 Magnum motor, I'll swear it was only the 1970 383 magnum motors that had the Holley carbs also that where listed by Chrysler to NHRA tech. department with + .005 deck height, just like the 390 HP 440 6 pack motors where scope


I think the 440 6 bbl blueprint was -0.001".
Posted By: carter

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 01:51 PM

I had seven or eight virgin 383 past the years, two was -71 (G) One 2bbl and one was a 4bbl both painted blue. All had forged cranks.

My match# 383 4bbl Non-HP for my -70 E-body ( N-code) Is painted blue, has HP manifold, 402 oil pan without vindage tray, Carter carb # 4736s. (G9)
Posted By: cbusters

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 05:03 PM

Here you go, fresh from the DC Racing Manual circa 1979.

Attached picture Pos Deck.JPG
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By cbusters
Here you go, fresh from the DC Racing Manual circa 1979.

Let me clarify that I didn't doubt that you read that in a Mopar manual, what I should have said that I jhave never seen a production 383, from 1959 to 1971, that had the stock OEM piston tops above the decks shruggy You need to remember that the original beaded steel head gaskest where .022 thick and had a smaller bore size than the later 440/400 bore size .017 thick beaded steel head gaskets work
Which leads me to say do not believe every thing you see in print tsk Have you heard the old adage to not believe any thing you hear and only half of what you see work
Many myths out there. Mopar, Chevy and Ford provided many false specs. to NHRA, NASCAR and other sanctioning racing organizations on many different parts they made for racing only that where not used on production cars shock shruggy
Posted By: NachoRT74

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 05:59 PM

interesting reading from the DC book. I have the book but never advertised that... will search and read


Originally Posted By cbusters
Originally Posted By BSB67
Originally Posted By Mebsuta
Originally Posted By cbusters
I scanned through the posts in the thread and didn't notice anyone mentioning the fact that the 69 335hp 383 motor had positive deck height flat top pistons originally.


If you mention that, somebody will insist that they weren't +dh, so I never say anything.


How much + have you measured them?


Long ago, far far away. It was less than .100 , if my yellow book surfaces I will check to see if it mentions it.


less than .100"??? still being .050 sounds a bit of too much for a factory assembly!!! I have had constanty bad decking jobs on my 400 and I'm worried now will have to cut it again and hoping will be getting around 0.020. on one of the sides. The other side seems to be at zero. Will use the felpro brass shim on that side to get both sides equalized.

well that was a bit off topic.
Posted By: 70 buzz

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 06:42 PM

Would all this mean if you have a ramcharger hood you would be looking at around 340 hp suppose it added 5 hp if that is true for a 1970 super bee
Posted By: 69CoronetRT

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 06:50 PM

The only way to truly know what any specific engine puts out is with a dyno.

Estimating actual horsepower based on a, probably, inaccurate factory rating is probably not a good idea. Only a dyno would give you the facts.
Posted By: cbusters

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 07:37 PM

Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Originally Posted By cbusters
Here you go, fresh from the DC Racing Manual circa 1979.

Let me clarify that I didn't doubt that you read that in a Mopar manual, what I should have said that I jhave never seen a production 383, from 1959 to 1971, that had the stock OEM piston tops above the decks shruggy You need to remember that the original beaded steel head gaskest where .022 thick and had a smaller bore size than the later 440/400 bore size .017 thick beaded steel head gaskets work
Which leads me to say do not believe every thing you see in print tsk Have you heard the old adage to not believe any thing you hear and only half of what you see work
Many myths out there. Mopar, Chevy and Ford provided many false specs. to NHRA, NASCAR and other sanctioning racing organizations on many different parts they made for racing only that where not used on production cars shock shruggy


I can verify it past the reading stage. I actually rebuilt engines with the taller pistons. It was a Mopar thing, not a slop thing or an aftermarket thing. I had a daily driver 69 RR that got too cold and froze and blew open the block. I found another block and then we first found out about the pistons when we rebuilt it and only needed to replace one. I will say it is past the myth stage here. Believe as you wish.
Posted By: BSB67

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 07:42 PM

Originally Posted By cbusters
Here you go, fresh from the DC Racing Manual circa 1979.


Right, but that does not necessarily make it so from the factory.

I'm still waiting for someone that has measured a factory original that is proud. Between the ones I've measured, and people that I trust that have measured them, I have not heard of any being positive. There could be some due to factory tolerance differences, but I have not seen or heard of any. They ranged from very near zero to 0.008" below.

I have run 915 head on a 1.932" CH 68 383.
Posted By: slantzilla

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 08:02 PM

NHRA Stock specs are what is allowed in teardown. It has nothing to do with factory specs.
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 09:32 PM

I have a 69 383 4Bbl A/C(turquoise, duel exhaust Holley carb)I just had the heads off because of a stuck valve. So I removed the 906's heads and cleaned up top of block for my re-man 1971(346)heads and my pistons are flat top and if they are not positive deck height, then they are so close to positive and you would need measuring equipment to tell the diff, because with my finger and eye, it looks to be above the deck(very small amount)
I do have photos, And the driver head is not torqued down yet, so I could take it off to measure I DO NOT want to but I could.
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 10:00 PM

First time trying to post picture,if it works this photo was taken to show the damage to the top of the piston but also looks like the piston is at or close to top of the stroke.

Attached picture DSCF0202.JPG
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 10:05 PM

Again I didn't measure with a dial indicator and .010 is really hard to see with naked eye, but my pistons appear and feel like they are above the deck. I will look for a better photo,as when I took the pictures I was not trying to capture positive deck height.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 11:42 PM

You can easily tell if the piston top is above the block deck by using anything with a straight edge to slide across the deck to the piston top, if it slides over the piston the piston is NOT sticking up above the block deck shruggy If it won't slide over the piston top the piston is above the deck scope
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 11:54 PM

Originally Posted By slantzilla
NHRA Stock specs are what is allowed in teardown. It has nothing to do with factory specs.

According to NHRA tech. directors when I started racing NHRA in 1973, Farmer Dismuke and Jim Dale, and the other directors that have served as NHRA Tech directors since them all say that NHRA only uses the engine and car specs. furnished to them from the car makers shruggy
Back in the early days of SS and stock Grumpy Jenkins proved to NHRA and probably Plymouth racing division that the piston dome height for the 1963 415 HP M.W. motors was incorrect for the advertised compression ratio. stock was between + .062 and + .065 from TRW, they needed to be + .091 to have the true compression ratio Plymouth and Dodge said they had according to the math. NHRA changed their spec. after that to allow the +.091 dome height on those motors in 1965 or 1966 scope
The only way to get a OEM legal stock piston to measure that was to use a 1964 415 HP piston and mill the top down from +.120 to +.123 to +.091 devil shruggy
To much politics in every form of competion runaway shruggy
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/21/17 11:58 PM

I would have used straight edge if I had thought to document the deck height before I slapped the heads on.
But if I do remove the driver head, I would def measure it with dial indicator to get a very accurate number for everyone.
I have pass side head torqued and valve train just set in place, I was gonna torque driver side and try to button her up today, then I can finish up engine and engine bay paint. We will see what happens when I get my but out to the garage.
Posted By: Tempest

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/22/17 02:42 PM

Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
You can easily tell if the piston top is above the block deck by using anything with a straight edge to slide across the deck to the piston top, if it slides over the piston the piston is NOT sticking up above the block deck shruggy If it won't slide over the piston top the piston is above the deck scope


This ^^^. You don't need a dial indicator to tell if it's positive deck height. To tell how much, yes.
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/22/17 05:36 PM

Well some people on here had asked how much above deck it sat, that's why I mentioned the dial indicator.
As I said on my engine, at TDC it totally appears to be above the deck just a small amount,so small that you would need a dial indicator to measure how much above the deck. And then we would have a measurement to use for future discussions.

I only pulled my heads do to stuck valve, so I did not think to check and measure piston deck height, but as I rotated it to check cylinder walls I noticed pistons looked to be above the deck a small amount.

So I understand you don't HAVE to have a dial indicator to tell if its positive deck height but to have an actual number vs a guess seams like a small bit of useful info.

Also zero deck ht and 0.008 above or below is very hard to see by feel or sight.
Posted By: CSK

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/22/17 09:48 PM

Originally Posted By Bad B-rad
Well some people on here had asked how much above deck it sat, that's why I mentioned the dial indicator.
As I said on my engine, at TDC it totally appears to be above the deck just a small amount,so small that you would need a dial indicator to measure how much above the deck. And then we would have a measurement to use for future discussions.

I only pulled my heads do to stuck valve, so I did not think to check and measure piston deck height, but as I rotated it to check cylinder walls I noticed pistons looked to be above the deck a small amount.

So I understand you don't HAVE to have a dial indicator to tell if its positive deck height but to have an actual number vs a guess seams like a small bit of useful info.

Also zero deck ht and 0.008 above or below is very hard to see by feel or sight.


Feeler gauges work pretty well .
Posted By: BSB67

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/22/17 11:29 PM

Originally Posted By csk
Originally Posted By Bad B-rad


So I understand you don't HAVE to have a dial indicator to tell if its positive deck height but to have an actual number vs a guess seams like a small bit of useful info.

Also zero deck ht and 0.008 above or below is very hard to see by feel or sight.


Feeler gauges work pretty well .


This.
Posted By: FK5

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/23/17 12:24 AM

Originally Posted By JohnRR
Originally Posted By Bad B-rad
My 69 383 4bbl A/C car has duel exhaust,with what looks to be factory "H" pipe and hangers and mufflers.
And I now think I figured out the yellow crayon 68 written on the front of my pass side valve cover is not a 68 it is an 899 and one 9 is gone and its written upside down.
I will now have to go see if the pipes and mufflers have any numbers on them so I can figure out this semi-mystery!!!


Also do 383HP MAGNUM ROAD RUNNER 335Horse engines use the same pistons as 383 330horse pistons, or do the 335horse motors have valve pockets in them?
Could you put a "RoadRunner/Magnum" cam in the 330hp 383 with 2bbl cam with out causing any damage? I know my engine(330horse) the pistons almost have a positive deck height at TDC.


Someone changed the headpipes on that car, there isn't an H pipe on any 383 Mopar , only on 440hp, 6pk 70/71 and Hemi cars.


Um... what?

Pretty sure this is bum info too. I have a 375 hp/440 'cuda from 1970 and it doesn't have any h-pipe either. I was there when we picked it up at the dealer.
Posted By: mccannix

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/23/17 05:29 AM

H-pipes were on all Hemi cars and A12 cars only is what I always thought.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/23/17 09:04 AM

H-pipes

B-bodies w/HEMI & 440s 1967 'til mid '71

E-bodies w/HEMI
Posted By: mccannix

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/23/17 02:13 PM

Correct up ...don't know why I wasn't thinking about the rest of the B-bodies
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/23/17 08:17 PM

I was wrong, My car(69 charger 3834Bbl A/C) does NOT have an H-pipe, It is straight duel exhaust.
I am sorry about that. I guess I have been under way to many Mopars as of late,thats a good and bad thing,LOL.

But now I am Making time for my car, so I should be getting to know it better. I got in late Dec,16, and I have not done very much, but look at it, and sit in it making Vroom, Vroom sounds.
Posted By: Alchemi

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/24/17 11:29 AM

I have a 68 non hp 2bbl short block sitting assembled with new rings and bearings, I can not say for sure that the deck is untouched, but I do have a couple of pistons proud of the deck, they are dished
I will get some pics up soon
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/24/17 11:51 AM

I think it is the 4Bbl engines that may have the + pistons, mine is a 69 and flat top pistons, would be cool to see yours.
My engine has never been out of the car so the deck has not been milled.
Posted By: dan9

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/27/17 03:10 PM

If I remember correctly the ads or road tests of the new RR and Super Bee stated that they came with 440 heads. Maybe that lead to a a lot of confusion. I have old mags from the era and I am curious about what they said.
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/27/17 05:21 PM

I was looking at my old Mopar Performance Parts Big Block B/RB engine book P/N P4876825
And in there it states that the 1968 and 1969 383 engines(4Bbl) have positive deck height.

I know that just because its in the book, does not make it true, but just thought I would throw that out there.
They were also saying with stock pistons(with NO valve pockets) that you should stay away from camshaft duration larger then 285 degrees, and high lift cams, they do not go on to give a number of what you are safe to use.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/28/17 05:02 AM

Think about this, if the piston is above the deck and the stock beaded steel head gaskets where(and are) .022 thick what is going to happen work
The standard acceptable minimum safe piston the head clearance is .035 shruggy
No worky very long my friend, your buying misinformation as truth tsk work
When things don't make sense, their is usually a reason for that shruggy
Posted By: cdp

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/28/17 05:57 AM

On this episode of mopar-myth-busters, we'll check the piston height on a stock, H-Code, 1969 Charger SE with the mischievous and mysterious 383-330 horse engine, with original pistons.

And the results on this one: APX .005 to .008 ABOVE deck.




Attached picture P5272115.JPG
Attached picture P5272111.JPG
Posted By: Mebsuta

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/28/17 08:47 AM

Originally Posted By cdp
On this episode of mopar-myth-busters, we'll check the piston height on a stock, H-Code, 1969 Charger SE with the mischievous and mysterious 383-330 horse engine, with original pistons.

And the results on this one: APX .005 to .008 ABOVE deck.




Thank you.
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/28/17 01:24 PM

I do not know what all 68/69 engines are, but my 1969 H code 383 4Bbl a/c engine(330HP) has pistons that are above the deck surface, That is a fact, I just changed heads, Now I wish I had measured how much above the deck.
So as far as buying miss info as truth, the Chrysler guys had a hand to do with that because they built my engine with Positive deck height AND they printed info about it in books.

I can only speak for my engine, but there are a ton of cases of people having the valve kiss the top of the piston using camshafts, that are not all that crazy, by most engine standards, I was just trying to help some one avoid a costly mistake, as I will limit my cam choices to the Magnum/Roadrunner cam .(I also used the steel shim Mopar head gasket, and at Mancini's price I got three sets,its nice to have stuff on hand,just in case)

I did post the one photo where you can see the piston sticking above the block.

But I am gonna guess most 383 engines are not using the stock factory pistons anymore like my engine, so it may not even be an issue to most guys. As most new pistons have valve pockets in them as to make valve to piston clearance exceptable.
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/28/17 02:19 PM

Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Think about this, if the piston is above the deck and the stock beaded steel head gaskets where(and are) .022 thick what is going to happen work
The standard acceptable minimum safe piston the head clearance is .035 shruggy
No worky very long my friend, your buying misinformation as truth tsk work
When things don't make sense, their is usually a reason for that shruggy

If using 67 heads then yes would be close, but the 68 up have an "open" chamber, made for the 440 bore
On a similar note, I have a 383 with the TRW popups with zero deck and 67 heads, blue felpro gasket. That engine had some get up and go.
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/28/17 03:10 PM

THANK YOU CDP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I been trying to post photos and I suck at computers.
I am not a guy who tries to post wrong info, If I do not know then I post that, and I JUST had my heads off, I am just trying to help people. THANKS SO MUCH

Attached picture 223.gif
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/28/17 03:12 PM

The piston has a taper to the top, so the edge sits in the cylinder, but the top of the flat piston sits above the deck., Sorry my photo sucks, as at the time I was not trying to prove deck height.
Posted By: cdp

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/28/17 05:01 PM

No problem.

I put the shorblock together some time ago and its been in the corner of the garage for a few years now, as other projects have taken over. I never really paid attention to the deck-height, but after reading this forum, it got me thinking and I had just a couple bolts holding the heads on. So I did a quick check with my trusty calipers. Due to the chamfer, that you mentioned, its tough to measure, but I came up with .006, but I think its slightly more. I don't have an indicator handy at at the moment.

To reiterate this particular H-code 383/330 horse engine out of our 69 Charger: It is an AC car, with a turquoise, non-HP block. It had red springs on the original heads, and a standard, I think 666 intake manifold, along with HP exhaust manifolds. The carb was replaced with an AVS, so I'm not 100% sure on what carb it came with originally, but it appears it may have been a holley 4160 series. No windage tray, but 402 pan. I tossed the original came, in favor of a full Lunati matching kit, but what I had researched a few years ago, and several threads on here, is that they had a 2v-camshaft. The pie tin is red, with the "383-four barrel" designation, with the standard small round HP-air cleaner. Some where, I have pics, but they are from a long time ago, and the cars been long time torn apart.
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/28/17 06:11 PM

My car sounds just like yours, except mine had the duel snorkel air filter, but my car had the "N97" Noise reduction package, and that got duel snorkel air cleaner housing.
I think California cars got the "N97"
I guy just showed me how to find that out on the build sheet, it is not on fender tag.
So that my help clear up air cleaner housing differences between the engines, one was built with the standard air cleaner and cars with the "N97" got duel snorkel.

I also think mine has the "301" intake manifold. But the rest is the same. I have not had the oil pan off yet to tell if it has a windage try, I would guess that it does not have that.
Posted By: cdp

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/28/17 08:56 PM

301 intake would be the correct one. I had one of each and couldn't remember which one belonged where.

Your N97 sounds right also. Would love to see more pics of the car your working on.

Another correction, I was wrong on the valve springs. Found the original springs(replaced with lunati) and they were std. 2v springs with no damper, which was stated earlier from the factory service manual.
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/29/17 05:34 AM

Originally Posted By Bad B-rad
My car sounds just like yours, except mine had the duel snorkel air filter, but my car had the "N97" Noise reduction package, and that got duel snorkel air cleaner housing.
I think California cars got the "N97"
I guy just showed me how to find that out on the build sheet, it is not on fender tag.
So that my help clear up air cleaner housing differences between the engines, one was built with the standard air cleaner and cars with the "N97" got duel snorkel.

I also think mine has the "301" intake manifold. But the rest is the same. I have not had the oil pan off yet to tell if it has a windage try, I would guess that it does not have that.


If I remember correctly the "noise reduction package" also had regular turn down tail pipes, no chrome tips
Posted By: Bad B-rad

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/29/17 06:53 AM

That is how my pipes are, I had thought that maybe the tips were removed or didn't have them.
So did all cars, with out the N97 package all have tips on them?
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/29/17 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By Bad B-rad
That is how my pipes are, I had thought that maybe the tips were removed or didn't have them.
So did all cars, with out the N97 package all have tips on them?

Can't say for sure, there might be exceptions, but tips, mufflers and air cleaner are a package deal. Either or, poor Californians at the time had to put up with that crap, now most "people" there should have that package, lol.
Posted By: cdp

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/29/17 06:27 PM

Turn downs on ours also, no tips. St. Louis built charger.
Posted By: dan9

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 05/29/17 09:41 PM

I never remember seeing chrome tips on b-bodies unless it was an R/T, Super B, RR or GTX. In 68 I think it had to be. Hemi to get the tips on RR and Super B.
Posted By: Alchemi

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/07/17 09:49 AM

Better late than never

4-8 up one bank 2-3 the other with piston tilted
68 2bbl 383
9cc dish piston

Attached picture piston ht.jpg
Posted By: 383man

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/07/17 01:22 PM

Originally Posted By dan9
If I remember correctly the ads or road tests of the new RR and Super Bee stated that they came with 440 heads. Maybe that lead to a a lot of confusion. I have old mags from the era and I am curious about what they said.



I remember reading that in a 68 Roadrunner add. And the reason being up to 1968 the 383 and 440 had different heads. After that as far as I remember both the 383 and 440 used the same 906 head up to 1970. But before 1968 the 383 used the small 1.60 exh valve heads and the 440 the 1.74 exh valve heads.

I believe in 1967 the 383 in the A-body (Dart & Cuda) that was rated at 290 hp used the small valve 1.60 heads and the 383 two brl cam. I think in 1968 the A-body 383 got the large valve 906 heads and the 300 hp rating and in 1969 the 383 A-body got the better 383 Roadrunner/SuperBee cam and the 330 hp rating. All in all it sure can get confusing. Ron
Posted By: dan9

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/07/17 05:09 PM

Thank you for clearing that up for me. Back then we had to rely on the car mags for info. It seems like the older these cars get the more people know about them. The mags back then said the 70 motors were smog motors and rated at less hp.
Posted By: dart4forte

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/07/17 06:59 PM

Several years ago a buddy of mine who owns a flow bench did a flow comparison between the various exhaust manifolds. The test was done out of curiosity and from a similar thread on moparts posted at the time. The test was to measure flow and port velocity. The manifolds tested were the B body magnum driver side, C Body magnum Driver side and my 68 GTS 383 driver side manifold. All the subjects were tested at 25" of Vacum. All the exhaust ports were tested to come up with an average

Both the B and C manifolds flowed within 5" of each other. Both had the heat riser with the flap wide open. The A Body driver side manifold flowed slightly less on average between the B and C. The number wasn't significant. It had the heat riser removed.

Of course I went looking for the charts in all my stuff that's still unpacked from our move two years ago and have yet to find them. I'll be going up north next month where I can get copies to post.
Posted By: Rhinodart

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/07/17 08:31 PM

Originally Posted By dart4forte
Several years ago a buddy of mine who owns a flow bench did a flow comparison between the various exhaust manifolds. The test was done out of curiosity and from a similar thread on moparts posted at the time. The test was to measure flow and port velocity. The manifolds tested were the B body magnum driver side, C Body magnum Driver side and my 68 GTS 383 driver side manifold. All the subjects were tested at 25" of Vacum. All the exhaust ports were tested to come up with an average

Both the B and C manifolds flowed within 5" of each other. Both had the heat riser with the flap wide open. The A Body driver side manifold flowed slightly less on average between the B and C. The number wasn't significant. It had the heat riser removed.

Of course I went looking for the charts in all my stuff that's still unpacked from our move two years ago and have yet to find them. I'll be going up north next month where I can get copies to post.


So do you mean passenger side? The drivers side did not have heat risers. shruggy
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/07/17 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By 383man
Originally Posted By dan9
If I remember correctly the ads or road tests of the new RR and Super Bee stated that they came with 440 heads. Maybe that lead to a a lot of confusion. I have old mags from the era and I am curious about what they said.



I remember reading that in a 68 Roadrunner add. And the reason being up to 1968 the 383 and 440 had different heads. After that as far as I remember both the 383 and 440 used the same 906 head up to 1970. But before 1968 the 383 used the small 1.60 exh valve heads and the 440 the 1.74 exh valve heads.

I believe in 1967 the 383 in the A-body (Dart & Cuda) that was rated at 290 hp used the small valve 1.60 heads and the 383 two brl cam. I think in 1968 the A-body 383 got the large valve 906 heads and the 300 hp rating and in 1969 the 383 A-body got the better 383 Roadrunner/SuperBee cam and the 330 hp rating. All in all it sure can get confusing. Ron

On the 67 440 engine, hp=big ex valve, lp=small ex valve. Dad bought a 67 New Yorker for parts for his car, came with the 440-2 barrel 915 head small valve. I Had the big valve installed and used them on my 69 383. I think 67 was the first year for the big ex valve on a production engine (GTX type) Dads NYorker had the 375 engine in it, same as GTX-RT
Posted By: WO23Coronet

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/08/17 07:54 AM

No such thing as a 2bbl 440, but I think you're right on the standard '67 440 having 1.60" exhaust valves in 915 heads.
Posted By: dan9

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/08/17 06:42 PM

Not to change the subject but I thought the 440's in Chryslers were 350hp.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/10/17 09:25 PM

Originally Posted By dan9
Not to change the subject but I thought the 440's in Chryslers were 350hp.


350HP std , 375HP optional in some models.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/10/17 09:37 PM

[quote=Alchemi]I have a 68 non hp 2bbl short block sitting assembled with new rings and bearings, I can not say for sure that the deck is untouched, but I do have a couple of pistons proud of the deck, they are dished
I will get some pics up soon [/quote

Did you check them all? I have the same piston right here next to me and the the only way it would be above the deck is if either the factory cut the block too much originally, which isn't the norm as they are usually tall, or someone cut it to square during a rebuild. Is the factory stampings still intact on the front pass side ID pad ?

The CH of that piston is 1.932, same as the HP flat top, and on a blueprint spec block deck it is .0025 in the hole .
Posted By: Alchemi

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/11/17 02:25 PM

JohnRR the pad looks intact
D383
3 1 2

R
its a 67 casting date and only has a number stamped on the bottom of the bellhousing under the starter
It had been apart prior to me, one of the 906 heads ended with a -1 and the other -5
Recently it has been honed and the pistons/rods bead blasted, crank polished, machinist said a couple of pistons were down a few thou, and a couple of bores slightly larger (when I did ring gap, 2 ended up .004-5 bigger)
When I originally pulled the motor down a couple of years ago I checked the deck heights with a single piston and got not identical but similar results to below, that piece of paper long gone though
The odd side was at 0 ish - I could get .003 up on #1 giving it a tap with a dowel and 2 others less, but #5 is just under
Pad side however is way off
2 - 0, +.004T
4 - +.003, +.0075T
6 - +.0025, +.007T
8 - +.005, +.008T
If that side was machined, it was done very poorly compared to the other side (and would explain the intact pad?) After looking at how both 5&6 seem a bit lower than the neighbors id say I lost a thou or two on the crank polish and 6 must be a loose piston with the high tilt value

Machinist said I would have a bit of piston slap when cold and not to race it.... plans changed - it was thrown together to get the car moving, but now has much better internals collating. Wondering how it would go with some sidewinders and 2 different gasket heights, run it till it blows and then put the good stuff in... lols
Posted By: dart4forte

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/11/17 10:07 PM

Originally Posted By Rhinodart
Originally Posted By dart4forte
Several years ago a buddy of mine who owns a flow bench did a flow comparison between the various exhaust manifolds. The test was done out of curiosity and from a similar thread on moparts posted at the time. The test was to measure flow and port velocity. The manifolds tested were the B body magnum driver side, C Body magnum Driver side and my 68 GTS 383 driver side manifold. All the subjects were tested at 25" of Vacum. All the exhaust ports were tested to come up with an average

Both the B and C manifolds flowed within 5" of each other. Both had the heat riser with the flap wide open. The A Body driver side manifold flowed slightly less on average between the B and C. The number wasn't significant. It had the heat riser removed.

Of course I went looking for the charts in all my stuff that's still unpacked from our move two years ago and have yet to find them. I'll be going up north next month where I can get copies to post.



So do you mean passenger side? The drivers side did not have heat risers. shruggy



No, we did the driver side. I just mis-spoke. Guess I had passenger side on the brain. Still digging through my stuff. I did find the flow numbers on the heads on the 68 GTS.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/12/17 07:06 PM

Originally Posted By Alchemi
JohnRR the pad looks intact
D383
3 1 2

R
its a 67 casting date and only has a number stamped on the bottom of the bellhousing under the starter
It had been apart prior to me, one of the 906 heads ended with a -1 and the other -5
Recently it has been honed and the pistons/rods bead blasted, crank polished, machinist said a couple of pistons were down a few thou, and a couple of bores slightly larger (when I did ring gap, 2 ended up .004-5 bigger)
When I originally pulled the motor down a couple of years ago I checked the deck heights with a single piston and got not identical but similar results to below, that piece of paper long gone though
The odd side was at 0 ish - I could get .003 up on #1 giving it a tap with a dowel and 2 others less, but #5 is just under
Pad side however is way off
2 - 0, +.004T
4 - +.003, +.0075T
6 - +.0025, +.007T
8 - +.005, +.008T
If that side was machined, it was done very poorly compared to the other side (and would explain the intact pad?) After looking at how both 5&6 seem a bit lower than the neighbors id say I lost a thou or two on the crank polish and 6 must be a loose piston with the high tilt value

Machinist said I would have a bit of piston slap when cold and not to race it.... plans changed - it was thrown together to get the car moving, but now has much better internals collating. Wondering how it would go with some sidewinders and 2 different gasket heights, run it till it blows and then put the good stuff in... lols


Can you post a picture of the pad area ? The fact that the info is still thetre tells me it was either purposely machined like that and you would see a step , I have had a couple of 383's decked on a Rottler CNC and specifically asked that the ID pad not have the info machined off.


If you are expecting all the pistons to be the same depth from cylinder to cylinder you are expecting way too much from that engine. It MIGHT have been pretty close when it was new but after x number or hundreds , or even thousands of heat cycles?

I'm still surprised that you have positive pistons , are you measuring with a deck bridge directly over the center of the pin or out at an edge and rocking the piston?

Do you have a way to measure from the crank centerline to the top of the deck on the 4 corners ?
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/12/17 10:16 PM

I've seen .018 in rod center to center length in stock rods, not in the same motor though work puke
Posted By: 1969383S

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/17/17 09:48 PM

All A-Body 383 cars in 69 at least, had Windage trays as well. See Attached. So it is doubtful the extra 5 comes from that alone. I think it is more a market game played by Ma Mopar.

Attached File
pan and windage info.pdf  (169 downloads)
Posted By: 1969383S

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/19/17 04:20 AM

The only difference is in the manifolds used and the block configuration. The internals were all the same!

Maybe the model AVS Carb was different as 2 models are listed for each Stick and Auto

A-Bodies were "S" block builds. (Machined off Left side rear engine mount ear and drilled bosses at the oil pump for left side mount, chrome covers and oil breather.) Hemi Orange

RR and SB were "H" block builds (Normal Engine Mount ears no drilled boss at the oil pump.) Hemi Orange

It was nothing but marketing! They both have HP stamps on boss under the Dizzy.

Were they going to tell the buyers the Barracuda or Dart had the same power in an economy car as the highly marketed Road Runner or Super Bee mid size cars? Heck no, you spin it. The loss in advertised HP on the A-body left manifold was easily gained in weight loss of the car. A-body 383 cars rule!

See Attached.




Attached picture 69-25-1_page5.jpg
Attached picture 69-25-1_page6.jpg
Attached picture 69-25-1_page8.jpg
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/19/17 08:28 AM

Originally Posted By 1969383S


A-Bodies were "S" block builds. (Machined off Left side rear engine mount ear and drilled bosses at the oil pump for left side mount, chrome covers and oil breather.) Hemi Orange

RR and SB were "H" block builds (Normal Engine Mount ears no drilled boss at the oil pump.) Hemi Orange





Me thinks your confusing the M code 1969 A body 440 mounts with the H code 383 A body cars, the 440 had the oil pump bosses drilled and tapped, the 383 did not scopeThe A body 383 blocks from 1967 to 1969 had two bosses cast into the driver side block that where drilled and tapped for the block steel motor mount to bolt to, no cast in motor mounts ears machine off either shruggy
I've had two 383 A body cars that where original and seen several original M code 1969 440 A body cars, there are differences in them on the block machining and exhaust manifolds shruggy
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/19/17 02:17 PM

Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Originally Posted By 1969383S


A-Bodies were "S" block builds. (Machined off Left side rear engine mount ear and drilled bosses at the oil pump for left side mount, chrome covers and oil breather.) Hemi Orange

RR and SB were "H" block builds (Normal Engine Mount ears no drilled boss at the oil pump.) Hemi Orange





Me thinks your confusing the M code 1969 A body 440 mounts with the H code 383 A body cars, the 440 had the oil pump bosses drilled and tapped, the 383 did not scopeThe A body 383 blocks from 1967 to 1969 had two bosses cast into the driver side block that where drilled and tapped for the block steel motor mount to bolt to, no cast in motor mounts ears machine off either shruggy
I've had two 383 A body cars that where original and seen several original M code 1969 440 A body cars, there are differences in them on the block machining and exhaust manifolds shruggy

Also my 69 RR 383 block has those cast bosses for the mounts used in the a-body's .
Posted By: 1969383S

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/20/17 05:24 PM

I meant to say above the oil pump for the front mount bosses. Drilled and Tapped



A-body 383 left mount attaches to those 2 bosses above the pump and the front ear. The rear Ear for normal mounts used in RR/SB etc is machined off. Attached is a genuine A-body Block.

Attached picture Inked100_1816_LI.jpg
Posted By: 383man

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/21/17 07:43 AM

Found this info about 383's from 1970. Ron

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/21/17 04:09 PM

Originally Posted By 1969383S
I meant to say above the oil pump for the front mount bosses. Drilled and Tapped



A-body 383 left mount attaches to those 2 bosses above the pump and the front ear. The rear Ear for normal mounts used in RR/SB etc is machined off. Attached is a genuine A-body Block.


Cool, learn something new everyday. Been a long time, but working on my buddy's 68 383 Darts (had two 383 GTS's, one auto, one 4-speed) can't remember seeing that, we removed engines and put on the stand to go thru.
Posted By: Triggerfish

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/21/17 04:15 PM

Originally Posted By 383man
Found this info about 383's from 1970. Ron

Thanks much Ron. I didn't realize the Road Runner 383 was different than the Super Commando 383. Back in 70, I bought a 'Cuda 383 4spd new & it had the Super Commando that I thought had the same motor as my friends new Road Runner.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 07/21/17 06:17 PM

Originally Posted By Triggerfish
Thanks much Ron. I didn't realize the Road Runner 383 was different than the Super Commando 383. Back in 70, I bought a 'Cuda 383 4spd new & it had the Super Commando that I thought had the same motor as my friends new Road Runner.


that's the 1970 Plymouth b-body "spec's" page not to be confused with anything ELSE

marketing VS. advertising VS. reality = everything is not the same - ASK detailed specific questions & you stand a chance at getting a proper correct answer

1970 383 'cuda 4-speed engine IS the same as 1970 383 Road Runner 4-speed engine
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 09/28/17 05:08 PM

Originally Posted By 1969383S
The only difference is in the manifolds used and the block configuration. The internals were all the same!

Maybe the model AVS Carb was different as 2 models are listed for each Stick and Auto


A body 383's had dual point distributors, RR/SB engines did not, but they did use the same carb as the RR/SB.
Posted By: dart4forte

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 09/28/17 05:11 PM

Originally Posted By BlueRacer69
Originally Posted By 68mannix
the difference is that the 335 horse engine got a windage tray and the 330 horse engine did not that's the 5 horse difference.
Not true. My 69 383 Dart GTS with 330hp had the windage tray in the oil pan from day one. And I'm the original owner.



The A Body pan had a baffle not a windage tray.


FYI. Vans Auto is offfering the original 893 A body big block oil pan as well as the correct pickup.



Attached picture IMG_0559.JPG
Attached picture IMG_0560.JPG
Posted By: Paul_Fancsali

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 09/28/17 05:21 PM

My 69 Sport Sat 383 4 spd had the same engine as my brothers 69 Road runner diference noted dual snorkle air cleaner his has air grabber They both had single point dist. Power wise mine had 3.23s his was 3.55s big difference in power off the line Mine was stamped E383HP same as his engine. i Guess the 5hp was the aircleaner ????
Posted By: dart4forte

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 09/28/17 05:43 PM

Here's an original M code A Body tall deck motor mount

Attached picture IMG_0561.JPG
Posted By: 1KoolBee

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 09/29/17 04:12 AM

Originally Posted By elmor353
335 hp engines usually got the HP exhaust manifolds, while the 330 hp engines usually got logs like the 2bbls.


My '68 Superbee still has its "born with" 330 horse motor. Many '68 bees were actually 330 horse, by '69 the 335 was standard. This is verified on the trim tag as an engine code of 62 (330 HP) vice 63 (335HP).

My 330 horse has exact same 906 heads, exact same HP exhaust manifolds, and exact same unsilenced air-cleaner as 383 HP and 440 HP motors. It did not come with windage tray but did come with a 402 pan. Parts book says cam is 2531190 for 330 horse, 2843564 (440 HP) for 335 horse. Carbs are the same by application between the two 383 motors, distributors are different part numbers, likely different advance curves.

Bottom line, more cam, recurved distribuor, and windage tray were the only difference.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 09/29/17 07:23 AM

WoW! hammer

Originally Posted By elmor353
335 hp engines usually got the HP exhaust manifolds, while the 330 hp engines usually got logs like the 2bbls.


WRONG! '68-'70 both 330hp & 335hp received the dual exhaust manifolds which are commonly & incorrectly referred to as HP manifolds
383 2bbl engines received the "log" single exhaust manifolds (only on RH for '70)

Originally Posted By 1KoolBee
My '68 Superbee still has its "born with" 330 horse motor. Many '68 bees were actually 330 horse, by '69 the 335 was standard. This is verified on the trim tag as an engine code of 62 (330 HP) vice 63 (335HP). .....


WRONG! there is NO "63" used in 1968 335hp was STANDARD on '68 & '69 Super Bee
& the only '68 Super Bees with the 330hp engine are also equipped with A/C
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 09/29/17 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By Paul_Fancsali
My 69 Sport Sat 383 4 spd had the same engine as my brothers 69 Road runner diference noted dual snorkle air cleaner his has air grabber They both had single point dist. Power wise mine had 3.23s his was 3.55s big difference in power off the line Mine was stamped E383HP same as his engine. i Guess the 5hp was the aircleaner ????


Sounds like you got lucky and the wrong engine was installed, unless the 4speed cars got the 335HP engine ??

The RR engine had the 440 magnum cam, the 330HP engine which your non roadrunner should have had used the same cam as the 350hp 440 and the 2bbl 383 engine, that is where the 5hp is.
Posted By: Paul_Fancsali

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 09/29/17 06:06 PM

Well just for the hell of it when I had the car I checked the numbers and I got the E383 engine Car ran real well but I doubt if it was better then a 15.0 car but it was a convertable special ordered by the original owner with console 4spd
Posted By: jimmy

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 11/28/19 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by 69CoronetRT
Originally Posted by NachoRT74
Originally Posted by 375inStroke
Specs are
383 2V, 330HP 4V, and 350HP 440
256°/260° .425"/.435"

335HP 383, and 475HP 440
268°/284° .450"/.458"




So, any 383 4V is a magnum still with standard cam and springs, and all got HiPo exhaust manifolds. But the 335HP is a magnum "plus"


No.

The 383-4 335 horse was introduced in 68 with the Road Runner. The difference between it and the 330 horse assembly was, basically, it used the higher lift cam and springs introduced the year before in the GTX and Coronet R/T. The carb was different than the 330 horse as well as the 335 was intended to get a windage tray.

The 906 heads were used on all 68 big blocks. The springs were different with the 335 but not the head casting.
As Dan stated earlier, there are no HP exhaust manifolds. There are two and 4bbl manifolds.

When Dodge brought out the Super Bee mid year, they used the 335 horse assembly and called it the Magnum.

The 335 horse variant of the 383-4 was used from 68-70. The applications changed each year. In 68 only the RR and SB without A/C got the 335 assembly.
In 69, any B body with manual transmission without A/C and the RR or SB with either transmission and without A/C got the 335 horse version. Any 69 B body with A/C got the 330 horse. Any non RR or SB B body (Charger, Satellite, Coronet) with automatic transmission got the 330 horse.

The 1970 applications get a little more convoluted with the use of the 335 horse in B and E bodies. However, there was a 335 horse assembly available with A/C in 1970.

Properly and originally, the term 383 Magnum refers to a 68-70 Dodge with the 335 horse version. Dodge did use the term Magnum on other engines after 1970.

So....
1968: 383 Magnum in Super Bees without A/C.
1969: Manual transmission B bodies without A/C OR a Super Bee with either transmission and without A/C. So no 69 Charger with A/C or automatic would have the 335 horse Magnum.



This is correct. I have a 69 Fury III auto with the 330 hp engine, and a 69 RR 383 4-speed with a/c that also has the 330 HP engine. Both these engines came factory blue paint (I use to hate that my RR has the blue motor and a/c, lol). They both have the flat top 10.1 pistons, both came with windage trays installed, and have the 906 heads with dampner coils inside the valve springs.

It is my opinion that the cam was a bit smaller on these 330 engines, as I was told, once upon a time, the air conditioner caused to much drain with the regular RR cam at an idle. I notice when I rebuilt the 69 Fury engine with the regular RR cam, the engine had mild lope that it did not have with the 330 hp cam.

Take this for what it's worth. wink
Posted By: pro451bee

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 11/28/19 08:45 PM

Wasn't the fresh air systems the extra 5 horsepower?

Attached picture IMG_0326.JPG
Posted By: pushbutton

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 11/29/19 02:27 AM

They were rated 335 HP without the air grabber. I don't know where the extra 5 HP came from.
Posted By: Triggerfish

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 11/29/19 04:00 AM

Originally Posted by pushbutton
They were rated 335 HP without the air grabber. I don't know where the extra 5 HP came from.

I sure remember the 70 'Cuda I bought off the showroom at Sam Krug Chrysler plymouth in Vegas back in 70...383 335hp, Pistol Grip 4 speed & AC. It was pretty foolish to peg the 150 speedo racing my friends 63 Vette (375 hp327 fulie) from the Mount Charleston turnoff on 95! Especially with only F70 14"Polyglass tires. Only mod I did was Hooker headers. I sure remember the air cleaner had the Super Commando pie tin.
Posted By: jlatessa

Re: 383 HP 330vs335 hp - 11/29/19 04:32 AM

FWIW, I bought a 66 New Yorker, new, with the TNT package; 3.23 gears,
dual exhaust and a dual snorkel air cleaner, 365 horse power.

The standard Chrysler NY had 350 HP, everything else was the same on both engines.

Joe

PS first year for the 440
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