Mopar Big Block swap into 72 AMC Hornet

383/440 into a 72' AMC Hornet?.... Hmm..
Just wanted to know if this swap was ever done successfully and what parts (factory or aftermarket) are needed? All logical suggestions and references are appreciated. Thanks.

I would stick with a low deck if I was doing the swap just because it gives you a slightly smaller package.The one positive thing you have is that they used a Torqueflite transmission so your shifter,kickdown,mount,slip yoke,and speedo cable will be easier.
They used GM engine mounts.

Gus

Wouldn't be practical with a stock front suspension. The AMC cars use a loaded upper control arm with the spring on top of the upper arm, similar to late 60's Fords, which severely limits the space for headers. I run a small block Mopar in my 81 AMC Spirit, which has the same basic engine compartment as the Hornet, and the header clearance is tight. I've considered either switching mine to struts, like Fox body Mustangs, so I can then roll the towers in, or putting a Mustang II style crossmember and coil-overs in it. But I just can't see even a low deck fitting in, even with manifolds, without modifying the spring/shock towers.

What's the engine compartment dimension compared to an A-Body? That should tell you right there. Aside from steering linkage/pan if it's wide enough should be OK. If it's narrow that's a whole nother deal.
Doug

I was kinda thinking the same thing about those shock towers, ES! Thanks tor validating my thoughts on the front end issue. May still go through with the low deck.

That's right 4gear! The fact of the torqueflite setup did attract me to the idea. Looked to be a natural fit for the smallblock. But.. being weaned on big blocks, I'd figured on the big block to "make it work" also. Big concern about the mounts and steering linkage.

My racing partner has a 74 (iirc) AMC Javelin with a 440/727/8&3/4. nut and bolt restoration from a California Javelin that had never seen rain or snow! Not exactly a Hornet but you could be burning rubber in a Mopar powered AMC by the end of next week! EDIT Was never ran since purchased/finished & is sitting inside collecting dust for 5+ years.

I've always thought it would be cool to put a big block in a Gremlin.

There was a member (Mark Gates?) that had a Pacer w/ a low-deck stroker. Anyone know if he's still around? (Vermont area?) IIRC, he had set the engine back in his car though.



Tim

To take the suspension explanation a step further - the Gremlin/Hornet/Spirit/Concord front chassis is a front steer unit, with a loaded upper control arm, and a single pivot lower with a strut rod that is behind the lower arm. The strut rod brackets locate the rods several inches inside the frame rails, which limit header clearance, as does the steering shaft. I actually re-located the strut rod brackets to under the frame rails and use heim joints instead of bushings to locate the rear of the rods. As to engine (SBM) location - I used a stock trans crossmember, used a stock V8 904 trans mount to set the trans location, then fabbed the engine mounts to the frame, using A-Body plate style mounts. A stock 6qt. 360 truck oil pan just clears the factory engine crossmember. Headers are modified A-Body mystery brand 1 5/8" that are tight to the steering shaft and the shock/spring towers. I'd say a big block would be very tight, with tower mods likely. Actually, I need to make new headers, and when I do, I will probably ditch the factory front suspension and install a Heidts Mustang II kit, or possibly one of these Welder Series kits.

http://www.welderseries.com/blog/#!/Front/c/12959481/offset=0&sort=normal

Another option I'm considering is installing 90ish Fox body struts with the coil-over kits and upper caster/camber plates and trimming the towers back.

I have a buddy in California that stuffed a 440 into a '74 Hornet hatchback. He never mentioned having any sort of suspension or steering issues - that big issue was finding/making an oil pan that fit. I do believe he's running headers too.

Yep, that's logical. The fact that it is a Javelin, alone, makes it a rich cake! The 440/727/8&3/4 rear are the decorations which makes the cake, very unique. California bred, makes it not reachable for the average Joe. Being in his position, I would not let it go, until the right price walked up. Sounds like a real nice ride though!

Did He use a custom pan with a notch in the front or a center link pass-thru tube in the sump?

With the Hornet being a front steer car, I have to wonder how close the oil pump/filter is to the steering box. As to the oil pan, either a rear sump truck or dragster pan would be necessary, and yes, would probably need work.

As to headers - my small block ones need to immediately turn down and hug the block to clear the towers. A wider big block would have to be REALLY tight.

IIRC He sold the car a while back due to health issues.

the guy who build it was an extreme OCD perfectionist & I ain't sure what was the deal on the eng but I dont think it was ever driven after built or if it was it was very little then he sold it as a roller to my buddy & I built the 440 & installed it but we got sidetracked with circle track racing & it got put on the back burner then he lost interest in it & its been sitting in his garage untouched for at least 5 yrs if not more with a thick coat of dust on it (its blue metalflake). He'd let it go. his email is junkcaroutlaw at aol dot com & his name is John. I'm gonna call him today & see what he wants for it.

Sorry to hear that man. A lot of innovative minds do fall cause of health issues. Hope that he is doing well and he ts in our thoughts for better health. By the way, that engine setback idea is a good one! Thanks Skeptic for sharing the idea.

[/quote]the guy who build it was an extreme OCD perfectionist & I ain't sure what was the deal on the eng but I dont think it was ever driven after built or if it was it was very little then he sold it as a roller to my buddy & I built the 440 & installed it but we got sidetracked with circle track racing & it got put on the back burner then he lost interest in it & its been sitting in his garage untouched for at least 5 yrs if not more with a thick coat of dust on it (its blue metalflake). He'd let it go. his email is junkcaroutlaw at aol dot com & his name is John. I'm gonna call him today & see what he wants for it. [/quote]

Rapid, no worries about it man. Your rep with engines as much info I learned from you here on these threads, speaks well for itself. I don't know every thing and whatever I don't know know, I ask questions. Thanks for the email. BTW, you run sprint cars or sportsman?

thanks for the kind words bro. I too learn something new (on here) almost every day. I run hobby stock. I spoke with John & he said he'd let it go if someone showed up with 10K cash but from the tone of his voice he does not want to let it go (which is why he thru that high number at me) & I was asking about it for ME! (My DD 85 Ramcharger 318's 8MPG is killing me). I gotta get out from under it. He's a professional horder & we've been friends for 30+ years so I know him well. He does not want to part with NOTHING!

Moparts car show 2003 The car ended up with a 511" engine. His handle Mark_Gates is still up, you can check out all his posts. Here's His final thread when he sold the car.

Hobby Stock is cool! If I am not mistaken (could be off on the knowledge), don't they run claimer engines? Your buddy John, being a professional hoarder... just means that he has his OWN legal private (not for profit) JUNKYARD. Nuttin' wrong with that at all! After all, what one person sees as junk, could be treasure to someone else!! And more than likely he has the hard-to-find stuff. Sounds like that 85' Ram (if it's a 4wd) the gear/tire setup are a major factor for the 318's poor mileage. Either a "warned-over" 318, or a long armed 360
matched to the gear ratio/tire setup will net you better mileage. One thing the 85' is NOT the most aerodynamically built truck.

its a 2WD. the problem over there is the neighbors (& therefore the police) see it as junk rather than "treasure"!. when I get my camera issues sorted out I will send you a pic. right now I'd trade the truck for an A body DD even one that needed some work. A guy I built an eng for sold it to me so I had something to get around in when that guy T boned my 65 Dart. He had purchased it from the original owner & it has never been wrecked (but does have some issues). EDIT there are even 3 pretty good sized stainless steel autopsy tables sitting in his yard! I'm gonna bring one home for a parts tray (they roll on 4 wheels) and cut some round pieces out of the other two to make some snazzy wheel covers

Yep, I know the feeling about pesky neighbors, too! Ran into the same problem with my 86' F-150. Always sticking their noses over the backyard fence, but when a robbery occurred, they - DIDN'T SEE A THING !! The autopsy tables would work well for wheel covers, especially for the salt flats (Bonneville) and make good teardown/assembly tables (handy drain opening on it). As far as the BB swap, I will measure the engine bay carefully with a mockup to see how much clearance I am dealing with. Best to measure many times and cut once, than the opposite. Thanks for all the great input.