727 clutch and manual valve body install

Just got my upgrade kit for my BB 727. I got the reverse manual valve body WITH low band apply from Tranzact and I also got kevlar bands, HD friction plates, and a rings, seals and bushings kit. Tranzact advertises that their RMVB is designed to work off stock pump pressures, which means less stuff I have to change/replace.

Im starting this thread hoping that some tranny experts will chime in as I go along so I can avoid as many mistakes as possible. I have some experience with transmissions, but this will be my first 727 rebuild. Im following the rebuild instructions in the "Torqueflite A-727 Transmission Handbook; by Carl H. Munroe" It's a 1969 A727 that came behind a 440 C-Body. It's going behind a mild 440 around 550hp and over 500 ft/lbs of torque, with a 200 shot of nitrous (I've been told by some with my tight LSA cam I probably wont be seeing a 200hp increase, closer to 100hp). The whole overall goal is to have a FUN street/strip car that can take a beating.


1st thing I did was build a wooden structure to get the tranny vertical. Next, cleaned the inside and outside of the bellhousing and anywhere else that could possibly contaminate the inside of the tranny once the front pump and valve body are off. got the pan off and the front pump bolts out. Now, I need a slide hammer to take off the front pump (3/8 I believe).

The 1st problem.. my seal and ring kit is labed "1971-On". Pretty sure I have to send it back due to differences in the 1971 and up front drum bushing size and sealing ring style, and also different bushings in the 71-up reaction shaft support. Anything else Im missing?

2nd, Im unsure if I should upgrade the servos. If the stock servos will be ok in this application, I will stick with them.

3rd, I think my tranny has 6 return springs, and can hold up to 15, not sure how many I should install for my application?

That is a lovely piece that you built to do the final assembly of the tranny, but it is working against you when it comes to disassembly.

1) put the pan back on.
2) tighten the 2nd gear band
3) lay the trans on a flat surface on the pan.
4) take all the bolts out of the front pump assembly
5) get a good length of chain with end links big enough to pass a 3/8" NC bolt with a washer. There are two places on the front pump that are threaded for above, assemble your chain to those places and holding one hand on the case, whip the chain and it will pull the front pump w/o a slide hammer.

1st time I used this method was over 30 years ago. Works every time.

I have seen guys do something similar in the dirt at the yard, they just pull the pump bolts, pick up the tranny and drop it. Of course this is only the start of the disassembly, read the book. If you think you need bushings, take the parts to a tranny shop and have them install them while you watch, if possible.

I agree that that "fixture" isn't ideal, you'd be better off salvaging the wood and making a stand to hold the trans on its back with the pan facing up.

The chain pump puller works or get a couple of lengths of 3/8"-16 all-thread and makes some weights to slide on them.

You need to determine the actual year of the trans, look for the part number stamped in the drivers side pan rail.

Thread 2 3/8 bell housing bolts in the holes on the pump and use a small crow bar to bump the pump out. if it is a 69 it should already have the good non controlled load servo on the kickdown band. I would eliminate the cushion spring on the rear servo. They make a spacer but you can stack some washers to do the same thing.

Drop the valve body and tap the pump housing off from the inside out. I use a long 1/2" extension.

I always use A&A's bearing that replaces the thrust washer between the input and output shafts. I have beat that thrust bushing out on a couple of trannies. You loose 3rd gear just all of a sudden and it requires a near total tear down to replace.

Yes it's a 69

Driver's pan rail: PK3410669L 3065 xxxx
passenger partial vin: 0C191109

Got some good feedback here for pump removal, thank you. The reason I put it vertical was I was afraid if I laid the transmission horizontal something might fall out of place when I pulled the guts out.

How thick is that spacer?

Whats that bearing called?

I use this 3/8 threaded rod the two holes are threaded 3 oclock and 9 oclock. pull by slowly tightening nuts down.

Actually, it's a '70; only a few differences from a '69 and the kit will be the same.

Are you talking about the model year it went into? I was referring to build date being 69, am I wrong?

I don't think there is a part number for it. I just order it by description. You will need to have one shaft machined for clearance. I think it is .060, but ask them how much when you order the bearing.

1/4 inch I do believe. There is an ad in the classifieds on here for a nice billet servo that does the same thing as well as an accumulator with a built in blocker rod that's a nice piece as well.

The model year is what you order parts by.

I got the front pump off with a puller made of a 2x4, 2 1' sections of 3/8" #16 threaded rod, some washers and nuts. Thanks for the idea Dodgem. Worked great. Then I removed the shift and kickdown levers from the shift shaft, and the neutral safety switch, and the E Clip that holds the park lock control rod to the valve body. Next I removed the 10 valve body bolts and took off the valve body and the accumulator servo/spring that it retains. Then I removed the front clutch band and components, then the front clutch and the rear clutch.

So I noticed the #3 washer between the input shaft and output shaft has a deep straight groove in it, is that normal? If not, what could have caused it? Picture below.

It's normal and you have the desirable 4 pinion planetaries. Should have a 4 clutch front drum too. Nice looking trans! What ratio is stamped in the kickdown lever? I run a 4.2 but a 3.8 is good too.

Having an assembly stand is a good idea. I built an adapter so I could hang the transmission from my motor stand. That way I can rotate it vertical or flip it over on its back. I found that being able to flip it end over end made it easy to measure the end play.

Thats a really good idea Andy, do you sell those adapter brackets?

@Barracuda7199, I cannot find a number on my kickdown lever, is it really tiny?

So, my planetaries are in good shape, the dont wobble on their shaft and clearances are good.

The clearances between the snap ring and the top steel plate in my front clutch are not equal around the whole perimeter of the snap ring, they range from .02 to .04 ish, could this indicate the steels or clutches are warped or have uneven wear?

To get the spring retainer out of the front clutch, I carefully used 2 C-clamps to depress the plate low enough to get the retension ring out. I used 2 pieces of flat metal on the backside to keep the clamp from touching the machined surface that contacts the washer on the front pump.

My front clutch only has 6 springs in the basket, I will be adding the full 15 before I reassemble. Not sure what they are technically called, does anyone know? need to order them ASAP.

Thought I'd throw this in there for anyone who is thinking about doing this, it's good idea whenever you disassemble something to lay them out in order. I also write the order and the name of the piece next to it in pen.

EDITED, non relevant .

Not that lever I'm talking about the one inside the transmission that engages the front band. It is on the left in the second pic you posted when you pulled the pump out.

Ok I'll check that lever.


If I use dexron can I use dexron VI?

My lever has 3.8 stamped on it.

What you have pictured is the throttle pressure lever and since you are going to a RMVB you will not be using it when you put the transmission back in. The kickdown lever is the one that pushes on the strut that closes the 2nd gear band and they are numbered.

Finally got time to reassemble my tranny. Ive got 15 springs in my front clutch, and 4 frictions and steels. Tranzact specifies that a front clutch clearance of .060 and .050 is required for their valve body. I had almost .080. So I switched my front drum snap ring with the rear drum snap ring, but I still have about .072 clearance, too much. The snap ring is .076", so i guess my only solution is to order a set of thicker snap rings.

After assembling the rear drum, even with the thinner snap ring (.062"), I barely have .010 clearance. I dont know how to solve that issue, as Im supposed to have .030 to .040

If Im overlooking something please let me know. I havent seen any snap rings or pressure plates that are thinner than stock to help me achieve the proper rear drum clearance. Maybe I could just have my pressure plate machined?

The only thing I can think of that has affected my clearance is that I soaked the clutches and steels in tranny fluid for a few days before I installed and checked clearance. Could my frictions have swelled and given me a inaccurate clearance reading?

Suppose to check the clearance with the disc dry....

Ok. Well I talked to a transmission guy and he says that wet friction disks would not be throwing my reading off that much. I'll take it apart and measure my old disks/steels and compare to new stuff and see where the difference is

You're good to go.

Friction discs are generally about the same thickness but thicker steel plates are available...you might have those and they'll tighten up the clutch pack. Standard thickness is .070" and the thicker ones are .090".

OK I found the problem. My front drum steels are .070 and the steels in my rear drum are .090.

I guess this would be a simple swap, except my kit only came with 3 of the .090 and my front drum uses 5 steels.

Is it a bad idea to mix and match the different thickness steel plates until I get the desired clearances?

If I do need to order more of the .090's, should I upgrade to the kolene? Every part I got in my rebuild kit was high performance except my steels. tranny going behind 600hp 440 with 150 shot

Mix the thick/thin steels any way you desire...personally, I use the thicker steels at the outer end of the clutch pack, toward the snap ring.

I called TSR and ordered some thick steels, and also some thicker snap rings just in case. He talked me into a bolt in sprag as well..

good to know I can mix the steels. Ill try what you do with the thicker steels towards the outside edges

Is there a good upgrade for the stock filler tube grommet?

Hey Guys I need help, I cannot tell if my forward clutch drum is fully seated! There is a slight gap between the ears of the clutch drum and the sun shell it sits in, is this normal? Is it fully seated?

Looks OK...if in doubt, look at the witness marks where the drum tangs previously wore on the driving shell slots.

Will my transmission be using the accumulator any more since I'm installing a manual valve body? If not, do I even need to re install it?

Depends on the valve body, if the large hole in the separator plate over the accumulator is there the accumulator will still be in use....if there is no hole in the plate you can omit the accumulator piston.

OK, the large open hole in the middle isnt covered, but some of the holes on its perimeter are covered. Not sure if the hole(s) you're talking about. Ive included pictures of both.


Here is my original valve body




Here is the new reverse manual valve body.

That VB needs the piston installed.

Ok will do.

On to my front pump. I've taken the stator off and I'm ready to remove the old bearing. During removal the inner pump gear jumped out and now I don't know the correct position it needs to go into the outer pump gear, so I'm getting a new set.

I talked to a transmission shop and he recommended a babbitt or a dimpled bronze bushing but I'm not sure which one, I see many TC companies recommended babbitt . I can't find much info on dimpled bronze, why would I use it over babbitt?

I wouldn't replace the rotors if there's no damage.

Babbit bushings are softer so they don't wear the converter snout, bronze bushings wear longer but are harder on converter snouts....dimples act as tiny oil reservoirs but they decrease the actual bearing surface.

Glad you are not in a hurry to get this done. By the time you are finished and with the help of www.moparts.com you should know enough to build another one over a weekend.

That's the goal Pete, plus is about time I started working on my own 727's.

How does my stator bearing look to you guys? There is discoloration but no grooves or scratches I can feel

Sent my front pump and stator out to be rebuilt with new gears and have bushing pressed in. Surprised they didnt replace the stator bushing.. but everything else looked alright. They threw the gasket on when the paint was still curing, so it tore when taking it off. No big deal, I got another gasket from the master rebuild kit.

Put my fiber washer and rings on the pump. Dont know why the rings are white, but they are definitely the rings for the pump.

all ready to install

Dropped the band back in, and also used some studs to keep the gasket and pump aligned as I dropped them in.

front pump in and torqued to 175 in/lbs

Got my accumulator back in, dont know if the spring is necessary though since Im installing a reverse manual valve body.

Most reverse manual VB instructions state to discard the spring. I typically add a 1/2" diameter x 3" steel rod between the bottom of the accumulator bore and the piston. Double check that the valvebody sits down on the case before tightening the bolts. If the piston holds the VB from sitting flush on the case, you would need to shorten the blocker rod a small amount. Discarding the spring and blocking the piston down firms the 1-2 shift.

There is no logical reason to leave the spring out unless you're installing the blocker rod described above.

I just installed the spring. First put the accumulator piston in the bore, then the spring, then the valve body. The spring fit perfectly into vb, and I made sure the spring didn't bind as I installed the vb

made sure parking rod was clipped in before vb install







With the rod and accumulator spring lined up, the vb was tightened up. in a star pattern little by little, to 100 in/lbs.






The plate in the VB blocks off the hole for the center bottom bolt. I thought about drilling it but decided against it and just left the bolt out

Used an in/lb torque wrench to tighten the front and rear bands to 72in/lbs, which felt really tight, but thats what it called for. My Reverse Manual Valve Body said to loosen the front out 2 full turns, and the rear 1/34-2 turns. I ended up setting the both out 2 turns

After the new filter was installed i cleaned my pan and gasket surfaces to like new condition, made sure the pan was flat and installed a cork gasket dry to 95 in/lbs. The book calls for 150 in/lbs but 95 felt plenty tight for a tranny pan.


After that I plugged up any holes and got to work cleaning the case from head to toe. I used Lacquer Thinner to get the surface clean, then primed and painted with high temp engine paint.

Hopefully everything works ok when it goes in the car!

I forgot to add the some photos above. This is when I did the bolt in sprag.

Once the governor is removed, there isn't a need for a perfect seal back there so a missing bolt doesn't matter. The 904 and 727 have different hole locations at that point, thus the elongated hole.

Air check before bolting on the valve body. The pump rings are coated, therefore the silver color. You're doing a great job. Same way I started years ago.

Doug

Thanks Doug. I did air check with about 35 psi, everything engaged, no leaks or hissing sounds