Paint guys- I'm behind the eight ball

Guys I'm behind the 8-ball this month.

I picked up an 87 CSX to teach the kids auto-crossing last month and it needed WAY more work than the former owner let on. Most of the car was a train wreck (but rust free) and it has taken most of the good part of a month to get the wiring fixed and other assorted ills.

Just imagine "everything broken" and that about covers it.

Long story short I still need to swap out a turbo, rack and pinion, alignment, windshield, inspection and plates.

The car was suppose to go to the body shop on this upcoming Monday for a quick single stage black paint job (the car has zero rust and a single ding the size of a quarter in the drivers door) but now the place is jammed up for weeks and the 25th annual Shelby national convention is only 5 weeks away.

Thinking about sanding the car down this weekend in the garage, hitting it with Summit epoxy primer, blocking it and then hitting it with Summit Hot Rod black satin paint.

Mind you I have not painted with a gun in 20 years and even then didn't know what the heck I was doing.

Crazy plan or not? The car isn't worth a pile of money so the fact it is hot rod stain black instead of gloss black doesn't bother me. I think it would be kinda cool and different than the other 750 1987 CSX made that year.

Any tips or tricks would be appreciated, I'm running out of time.

Gary

use the roller method and just do a rustoleum job on it. you can always sand it off and repaint later. but there will be way less masking, over spray, etc with using a roller.

Because of it's intended use, I don't think I would bother painting it. But, that's just me!

Go with your plan of the summit paint. Don't roll paint on it. the last thing you want to be is the laughing stock of the autocross. if you have come this far take the extra step and do the paint your self. no matter how long its been it will look way better than a roller!!.

Good Luck

Epoxy primer is not intended to be block sanded. You can wet sand it with 400-600 wet to knock down any dust in it.

Your plan sounds pretty reasonable, and sounds like you have some previous experience. If I was doing a down and dirty paint job on that car, I would sand it down with 320 and a DA. You really need to ensure all the areas where the clear is worn or delaminated is removed back to a solid substrate. Fix any dents etc with plastic filler or glazing putty depending on depth, or your care level. You really need a 2k primer surface to cover any body work you do. Finish that out to 320 dry. At that point you can epoxy prime the entire car. If you go with black epoxy, you can run that as a satin finish itself. While not being a topcoat, it might save you some effort and cash for your timeline. If you want to finish with the hot rod black, you can shoot the epoxy and let it flash off then shoot the topcoat over it. Your choice since it will all be masked anyway.

Google rustoleum or marine paint roll on. They can look awesome, but are labor intensive since paint is very dilute and requires multiple coats and sanding. The beauty is retouching is simple. I have seen some very good ones.

See? Way out of practice and out of my depth but always game to try.



So sand, fix the one ding, 2k primer (the whole car or just that area?) sand again and then hit it with epoxy primer?

I'm tempted to hit the car with gloss black but just asking for trouble.

Since it is a track car...(and I suggest you try ChumpCar) I'd just prep it as best you can and let Maacco paint it. They have complete paint jobs for $259. You cannot beat that.

Not around here they don't. Walk in any shop like that around here and they are like sharks that won't do anything but the top of the line.

Even if you prep it? What's the top of the line run? $500? I should have my dad come help ya. He painted my brothers 79 5.0 a nice gloss black in our driveway. Car still shiny today 15 years later.

This is CT brother, try $3000

WOW.. I thought here in Md. we had it bad. They routinely have adds for 1/2 price paint jobs starting at $259. For 3k I'd have a real Pro shoot my car.
Just pull it out in the yard, sand all the clear coat off, Hit it with some primer, sand and shoot your Semi-gloss black and roll.

Actually planning on setting up plastic curtains in the big bay of the garage, that way minimize anything that gets in the paint.

Just got off the phone with a local shop, $3000-$5000 for the job even though the grill, bumper covers, door handles, mirrors, wing and trim are already off the car.

He did lower it down to $3000 after a few minutes on the phone.

A "local shop" does not equal MAACO or Earl Scheib. You guys are talking about two entirely different kinds of paint jobs.

R.

Let your computer fingers do the walking.....for example,

MAACO
991 Dixwell Ave.
Hamden, CT 06514
203-687-4710

$1500 quote which is better than $3000 but not $259

Not sure I'd feel comfortable with a shop an hour and a half out from home with a few unobtainable Shelby parts not to mention Dixwell Ave is a very bad section of town.

quick and easy and cheap hit it w a fresh coat of clear and it will look like a million bucks.

It's a mid 80s Chrysler to be used on the track. Rattle can, wet sand, done. Or scratch, spray, sand, done. Heck, forget the primer! Scuff and paint!

I'd like it to be done at last half way right. The primer and paint from Summit isn't that expensive and a no rot car of this vintage is rather unusual.

PlastiDip the car!

I was going to do the roller thing on the Imperial but it's getting PlastiDip instead. It's far less work and expense.





OnPoint Connections
780 Enfield St, Enfield CT 06082
860-253-0489
Mon-Fri 9-5, Sat By App only, Sunday Closed

Services: Entire Vehicle, Rims, Emblems, Mirrors, Bumpers, Interior Panel, Subs/Amps, Grilles

Onpointconnections.net
Facebook.com/pages/OnPoint-Connections/212185322135691

Can always do a car wrap, don't know the cost though.

If the ding isn't terrible, you may look into having a paintless dent repair person fix it before you paint. That would save you some material cost and time.

Otherwise, you will spot prime the repair area(s) so that it fills the scratches left in the plastic filler. I typically finish plastic to 180. Finish out the primer to 320 dry like the rest of the car, and epoxy prime. That will do several things; act as a uniform basecoat before the topcoat, tie all the coats together chemically, bite into the 320 scratches so that the paint doesn't delam like before. Nice thing is most epoxy primers stay "open" from 3-7 days so you can get the topcoat on at your leisure or as weather permits. If you wait beyond that window, you have to wet sand and re-epoxy.

It really is small.

I plasti dipped my Bronco where's but probably wouldn't do it to a car as it peels super easily. Although just spray more on?
Either way good luck with it. I know they have a niche but don't sink too much in as there is a low ceiling

My point was that there is a middle ground between a roller or rattlecan paint job and the $3000 job, also that there ARE MAACO shops in CT. I just picked one of them, not knowing where you are. But it seems you enjoy the problem. It's all yours.

Oh, and one more thing...rare Shelby parts? There is rare, and then there is rare and valuable.

Don't bother to flame, I'm gone from this thread.

R.

I don't know what a PDR guy would charge to fix it, but I would bet it would be less than a quart of plastic filler, quart of primer, hardener etc. If you get the door panel off and ready for them that might save you a couple bucks too.

1) I agree with you, there is a middle ground.

2) Yup, there is three in the whole state and the one you posted is the closest and just happens to be smack dab in the middle of the worst areas of Hamden.

High crime area would be a vast understatement and I would know this as I have friends who live not far from there. Crackheads even stole a worthless set of rims off the front of the Reliant while it was in a shop getting welding done on the cage.



Nope, I'm realistic about prospects so have to explore all options.



Rare; as in impossible or difficult to find. I never stated a value of any sort.

Why the chip on the shoulder?

If the grill gets broken (they tend to be fragile) or lost I'm S.O.O.L. as there is no replacement and its rare they come up for sale as they only made 750 CSX in 1987.

I paint alot of fleet trucks and I think your idea is very good, do a good prep job, and use the summit primer and paint. I would prime the complete car using the primer as a sealer and surfacer. You said you havent painted in a few years so if you dont have one, I would go but a cheap gravity feed gun from Lowes or H.F. I use these when I dont want to use my "good" guns and they actully work very well and the newer paints dont do so well in the older siphon guns.

Dan

You'll have to follow the tech sheets for whatever products you plan to use. For my last two paint jobs, I have used the products from www.tcpglobal.com and www.autocolorlibrary.com I have used their "restoration shop" brand primers (epoxy primer as well as 2k urethane primer) and their brand paint in both their pre-packaged color as well a factory color.

My method was:

-Sand body down with 320 to scuff it up good, burn off clear coat, etc.
-Do the body work, metal repairs, welding, filler(shape with 220, finish with 320), etc
-Epoxy primer
-2k urethane primer
-Block sand 400 - the urethane primer sands nice and easy plus super smooth.
-Paint

If you know how to use your spray gun (and it's a decent model, not a cheapie) I would say sand it and go for it...

I have a decent gun but had no idea what I was doing. My Dart looks like I painted it with a Hershey bar and then threw handfuls of dust and dirt at it

I had a local guy (one-man "custom" shop) do half my beater BMW (hood, roof and trunk) and blend the clearcoat down to the moldings on the fenders and rear quarters. I saved a lot of money by doing the sanding myself (almost ten hours with a DA and sanding block). The paint and clear coat cost me $270 and his labor for the rest was a very reasonable $400. Came out nice, although I wish I had been able to feel/see the several hail dings first! (That would have cost more, of course).


Here's the BMW, I won't show you the Dart because it's too embarrassing.

Before (no clear coat and very little paint left on the roof and trunk):




After the sanding:




And after the guy who knew what he was doing painted it:




Well worth $400 to me not to mess it up and have to start all over! Not to mention building a paint booth from plastic sheet and lumber.

I have learned that painting cars is as much art as science and I don't have enough time, money or inclination to learn how to do it "right". I'm going to sand the Dart and have him paint it too.

I would do it in SPI expoxy primer - nice satin sheen , UV inhibiters, easy to scuff and spray later, reasonably priced or dupli color paint from advanced auto - kinda like a hybrid lacquer - not real durable but fast, cheap and nothing fancy to spray

Just my opinion, but if you are not experienced with a spray gun a flat black paint job will most likely not come out well. Everyone seems to think that flat black is easy. If you dont have good overlap while spraying, it will be all kinds of streaky. I'd leave it alone until you have a chance to do it right.

Can't.

Insurance company won't insure the car without it being painted. They are afraid it is going to be used as a daily driver.

Car needs to be in PA first week of July running correct which is still up in the air.

I am considering just putting liability insurance on the car which I can get now.

Original paint guy got back to me stating "we will make something happen" when I told him it was getting done at home and will have new answer today.

Perhaps he did not take me serious about my stated timeframe.

Personally, I'd just leave it alone. There are going to be a bunch of freshly painted cars at the show. If you need time and still have to fix all of the mechanical problems, just fix what needs to be fixed to get the car running safely. If you really care how it looks, get a vinyl wrap. You can remove it later down in life and paint the car then when your shop or yourself have more free time.

I would leave it the way it is and put any money into mechanicals. I would love to see a car like that racing in its original paint. If you paint it, it will look like all the other cars on the track. Leave it alone!

Reminds me of the old mantra "if it don't go chrome it".

'cept I build FWD cars that GO.

Plenty of hardware lying about the shop to turn this into an easy 11 second ride. I'm trying not too as the kids don't need to be wrapping themselves around trees.

My point is make it start stop and steer and run correctly before worrying about how it looks.

Starting and stopping already done (has brand new brakes on all four corners plus new struts and shocks)

Paint needs to get done next for two reasons- One the insurance company won't insure it unless it is in paint. Two, I can't do a windshield till the paint is done as the trim is held in by the windshield and covers the paint and I have the last trim set available in the USA.

Turbo and rack being done at same time because it is easy to do the turbo while k-frame is down. The new turbo isn't here yet so no reason to pull the k-frame till it shows up.

Just wrap the car then.

Out of curiosity I'm looking them up now, as expensive as paint in most cases and with all the mangy clear coat will stick out like a sore thumb unless I want to do some funky design like carbon fiber to hide it.

DIY look interesting though, I'm still reading up on it.

Very true... There's a really awesome thread that member Roe did while painting his truck. It turned out really nice and he did it with a roller. It's in the truck section I believe. Take a look. He did all the work himself and I think it cost him like $350-500.

if your insurance company won't insure because of paint, i would be looking for a different one. what else won't they "do for you" when the "time comes" ?

why does it need to be painted for insurance? I thought you were going to race it? If you do there is a chance it will get balled up at your 1st event..(AMHIK) unless you are talking about racing traffic cones in a parking lot. Do you have an old hood or door around? I'd practice on that and once you can take the look, try it on the car.

Hagarty and I understand their point of view.

They don't want to insure a car that some would only consider daily driver material as it is specialty insurance. They would like to see before and after pics as proof the car is getting restored, I don't have a problem with that.

If the body shop stepped up as they promised it would be a non-issue and there would not even be a posting here. I have a few irons in the fire though and there might be an alternate in play.

To add to the fun I dragged home a rust free GLHS 2-dr today and a Rampage converted to turbo, the price was too good to pass up.

i understand how it is now. but what happens if it gets damaged racing [parking lot pylons or other type] ? i don't think they have coverage for that. perhaps insure under your daily driver policy until paint/body work is complete ?

I'd hardly file a claim for paint damage caused by hitting a cone at an autocross event, far more concerned with dipsh*ts on the road in CT running into me.

Drove to Maine and back this weekend and it did not improve my opinion of the average driver on the road.

I painted my swinger ten years ago with john deere blitz black out of a $100 gun from autozone- it came out great- no streaks or anything and stayed black parked in the sun for years! Check it out it's a nice satin too not flat but flat enough to not show smudges and fingerprints etc.

I would fix the dent sand it, mask it and wipe it down with degreaser. When it is ready I would prepare to shoot it myself if I couldn't find someone who would shoot it for me. I think if you did it before you will still be able to put a good finish on it. Hardened single stage can be scuffed and buffed if you need to.

I'll say it again since it was ignored the 1st time....sand this car lightly and spray a fresh coat of clear on it.

It was noted but I think the paint is far to gone in spots. Might try it on my truck though as the clear is just starting to go on the roof.

Any delamination/fading needs to be sanded down. The sun will fade the pigments in the paint. Unless you don't care if you can see where the clear is gone now, you need to blow a quick coat of color over before clear.

Epoxy primer = nice new layer to build from

2K primer = level to make sure surface is flat. Will stick to new epoxy

Epoxy primer as sealer = nice coat for paint to stick to, seals over potential different surfaces in the 2K primer as you sand to make it flat

Base = color layer

Clear = extra cost, but level of paint you can sand for flat finish and buff to a shine

---OR---

Hot Rod Black = Great paint but it took a quart just to do my 74 Satellite hood. Like someone said, it is a bear to get even coats. I have only painted 3 cars so I am still a rookie, but that Hot Rod Black was a PITA.

Also you can spray new paint directly over the old paint. Sand the old stuff smooth, feathering it all together and spray it with a single stage acrylic urethane black paint and you're done. You'll have to burn off the last of what's left of the old clear coat, but you won't need to prime it. If anything, spot prime some areas with a rattle can.

Car is in the shop, 7 days.

Back from the body shop, 6 days.

Looks awesome nice goin!

GREAT points made here. Flat or even matte finishes require a 75% to 90% overlap to achieve an even sheen. Less than that will often result in tiger striped sections where the gloss varies from a shine to a flat finish. It cannot be corrected by sanding either, the panels have to be repainted.

Now you need a decal kit!

Looks good so far.

On order.

Still down to the wire if were going to make the 25th annual Shelby Dodge convention but for the moment at least all the body work is complete.

Yesterday swapped out the damaged turbocharger and installed an intercooler up front. Dealing with an odd issue with one of the front struts at the moment. If all goes well, should have plates on Thursday.

It looks good!

Those were fun cars. It's a shame they're under appreciated.

Need to redo the shot with the 2014 Challenger to show 3 generations of Mopars.

Looks good. Plans for making it run like the K-car later in life? (After you finish teaching the kids, of course. )



Tim

No, if all goes to plan the k-car will be waking from its slumber and be assaulting the tracks again in 2016.

The CSX will be used to develop some parts for it though.

Nines or FAIL!

9's? Before I got sidelined by real life the goal was 8.90's

=)

When this sucker hits 88 miles per hour..

Made it with ten days to spare which I'll need as there are little stuff to address on the car like a defective strut from Rock Auto.