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broken 4-sp

Posted By: 4spdana

broken 4-sp - 04/02/15 12:43 PM

broke 3rd gear, i have a spare input .... so can i use any 833 23 spline cluster?
how do i identify the correct cluster?

i'll check scatter shield for alignment with a dial indicator on the clutch...... had done this a couple years ago, don't understand how or if it could change. will also look at pilot bushing.

any other ideas ?

Attached picture 8478509-broken4-sp-Copy.jpg
Posted By: 64dodge572

Re: broken 4-sp - 04/02/15 03:20 PM

That is 4th gear that is broke, looks to be a 2.47 close ratio 23 spline, so that is the cluster/input shaft you have to use.
Posted By: 4spdana

Re: broken 4-sp - 04/02/15 09:07 PM

its a 23 spline run-of-the-mill standard production 833, Liberty converted it to Face Plate.

i'll just look for a cluster on e-Bay , racing junk ect.....
Posted By: 64dodge572

Re: broken 4-sp - 04/02/15 10:42 PM

It has to be from a 71-4 trans, I have used ones in stock.
Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: broken 4-sp - 04/03/15 11:05 AM

Quote:

That is 4th gear that is broke, looks to be a 2.47 close ratio 23 spline, so that is the cluster/input shaft you have to use.



Kinda curious why you mention it's 4th gear that's broke. The trans doesn't even need the cluster gear in it for 4th gear to work.

1st, 2nd, 3rd gears are all screwed, with the input and cluster damage shown, but I don't see why the shift ring shouldn't engage the input for 4th.
Posted By: 64dodge572

Re: broken 4-sp - 04/03/15 03:12 PM

I mentioned it was 4th because it was called 3rd gear.....The fact that it will go into 4th gear and "work" is kinda pointless since like you mentioned the trash run through the trans likely tore up more than just the cluster/input.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: broken 4-sp - 04/03/15 06:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

That is 4th gear that is broke, looks to be a 2.47 close ratio 23 spline, so that is the cluster/input shaft you have to use.



Kinda curious why you mention it's 4th gear that's broke. The trans doesn't even need the cluster gear in it for 4th gear to work.

1st, 2nd, 3rd gears are all screwed, with the input and cluster damage shown, but I don't see why the shift ring shouldn't engage the input for 4th.



Do you have an engine with enough torque ... and enough gear ... to start off in 1:1 ???
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: broken 4-sp - 04/04/15 12:51 AM

Quote:

its a 23 spline run-of-the-mill standard production 833, Liberty converted it to Face Plate.

i'll just look for a cluster on e-Bay , racing junk ect.....


You're gonna need a lot more than a cluster gear
I would tell you to scrap the whole idea of wasting any more of your money on face plating another 23 spline box but you seem to have your mind made up.Take it from someone that has torn up a few 23 spline boxes, stop wasting money on them and get a HEMI box
You can stop looking at what caused the carnage because it was traction, horsepower, and a hard hitting clutch.
Gus

Attached picture 8480133-moriaburnout.JPG
Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: broken 4-sp - 04/04/15 06:04 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

That is 4th gear that is broke, looks to be a 2.47 close ratio 23 spline, so that is the cluster/input shaft you have to use.



Kinda curious why you mention it's 4th gear that's broke. The trans doesn't even need the cluster gear in it for 4th gear to work.

1st, 2nd, 3rd gears are all screwed, with the input and cluster damage shown, but I don't see why the shift ring shouldn't engage the input for 4th.



Do you have an engine with enough torque ... and enough gear ... to start off in 1:1 ???



And that matters why? I never suggested that he - or I - actually drive the car starting in 4th gear. I simply mentioned that 4th gear - in this case the input shaft face plate and the slide ring - didn't appear damaged. In a true 833 4 speed, the damaged area/gear on the input shaft (in the picture) that drives the cluster has NOTHING to do with 4th gear. The cluster itself has NOTHING to do with 4 gear - doesn't even need to be in the trans for 4th gear to operate -
if for some reason you choose to operate it that way.. Now, if it was an 833OD trans, in this case 3rd gear would be good, and 4th gear would be hurt - along with 1st and 2nd, although at that point most people call that gear OVERDRIVE, not 4th.
Posted By: Rick_Ehrenberg

Re: broken 4-sp - 04/04/15 03:35 PM

Quote:

<SNIP!>....Take it from someone that has torn up a few 23 spline boxes, stop wasting money on them and get a HEMI box
You can stop looking at what caused the carnage because it was traction, horsepower, and a hard hitting clutch.
Gus



I've eaten more than a few 23-spline A833s with a healthy small block, road-course type use. Shucked teeth right off the countershaft and speed gears. Even built boxes with new (NOS '60s) gears, still ate 'em. This was in a light A-body, too. I was really bummed to have to walk away from the 3.09:1 first, but there was no other option.

18-spline or modern tranny swap. No other viable options. That's my 2¢.

Rick
Posted By: RichV

Re: broken 4-sp - 04/12/15 07:52 AM

Shot peening the replacement gears will increase there torque capacity. The compressive stress created by shot peening will decrease the tensile stress at the gear tooth root. I can not quote you a percent increase in torque capacity but this is used by Eaton on some of their transmissions to increase torque capacity.
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