What would you trust more, crate or shop built engine?

Posted By: MidPenMopar

What would you trust more, crate or shop built engine? - 01/10/09 08:17 PM

I always get people asking me to refer them to a shop that will rebuild their Chrysler engine. Most just want a nice mild upgrade on an existing block. The results vary so much from build to another at local places. One guy gets a great job and the next is screaming about how he was screwded over. It's almost impossible to recommend anyone that knows Mopar at all anymore. Chevy or Fords no problem. I know some of you build you own engines from start to finish but the majority of people i know can not do that.

So is recommending a "crate engine" a better way to go? Like one of those Mopar already finished ones?

Posted By: aarcuda

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engine? - 01/10/09 08:20 PM

svendiphrenkredualy

in other words, its hard to say

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engine? - 01/10/09 08:46 PM

Quote:

svendiphrenkredualy

in other words, its hard to say

Good Answer!!!

Posted By: mickm

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/10/09 08:59 PM

although hasn't it been said that, at least with the hemis, that the quality of the crate engines has gone way up? i know most people aren't looking for a hemi, but do the builders who do hemis do other mopar engines as well?

Posted By: StealthWedge67

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/10/09 09:06 PM

Depends on the shop. I'd generally believe that there's going to be the potential a human factor in both. I'd choose the shop route, go with a shop you're confident with, and involve yourself in the process as much as the shop will allow. If they know you're invested in the build, they will naturally take a little more care in it than a motor that was just dropped off & picked up a month later. ..... This one could be a real can of worms.

Posted By: gch

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/10/09 09:47 PM

You can get a bad one from either.I think the key is reputation from individuals with CHARACTER.Some whiny butts will complain no matter what.It would be important find one with mopar experience and be very clear about what you expect the motor to do and be honest about your intended usage.
A clean well organized shop with someone who is'nt too busy to take the time to discuss the build with you is a good head start.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/10/09 09:53 PM

I would suggest that a person find a Mopar head that they are comfortable with & pay him to do one at home in his garage in his spare time. Pay him well to do it right, get all the parameters straight in the beginning, stay out of his way & wait for him to call you when it's done. I too would not be comfortable with a mass produced eng.

Posted By: coro500net

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engine? - 01/10/09 11:16 PM

My motor was done a shop that did mostly chevy
(surprise)but he told me he has done several 440s,
had in and out of the car three times.I think the
best thing to look for in shop is to make sure they have test stand or better yet a dyno(mine did
not)if he had Im sure he would have built it right the first time.

Posted By: SSAAHemiFan

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/10/09 11:18 PM

Shop built engine in a reliable shop.

Lots of crates are built in assembly line fashion and time is money.

A shop SHOULD take the extra time to make it right since it is his "name" and reputation.

Posted By: badchallenger

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/11/09 12:45 AM

I know this is not the answer you wanted

but I believe any one that can open a book can get one on how to rebuild a mopar engine and read it and then farm out the machine work and put it together themselves! No one is going to put more care and effort into a build than the owner!

Posted By: Neil

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/11/09 01:18 AM

They are not that hard to assemble if you take your time. The expensive part is you might need to buy the measuring tools so you can double check everything.

I am lucky that my brother is sharp with engines and I gladly pay him to help me with my stuff.

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/11/09 01:25 AM

Quote:

I know this is not the answer you wanted but I believe any one that can open a book can get one on how to rebuild a mopar engine and read it and then farm out the machine work and put it together themselves! No one is going to put more care and effort into a build than the owner!

Agreed wholeheartedly. If you cannot crack open a how to rebuild your mopar engine book and understand the process, maybe you have no business building a race engine. I'm not saying you have to know every little thing, but just cutting a check to either a mass engine producer or a shop is not the answer IMO. Most people do it like that but I could not.

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/11/09 01:56 AM

I would buy a shop built engine over a crate motor any day.

Posted By: RodStRace

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/11/09 02:25 AM

for your question (a bit more than stock, long block), I'd first suggest getting a how to rebuild book and read it. Determine what you really want from the engine. Then I'd research local builders. Find out who does quality work. Often, the budget racer will be under too much money pressure. The guy that does class racers or higher end stuff is a better choice (don't want to step on toes here, but the guy knocking out claimer motors is either going to make up his fees on the one-time guy, or lowers his standards across the board).

Go to the shop and see how the customer is treated, the parts are treated and where the motors are assembled. If it's right next to the grinding wheel and flywheel surfacer, RUN!

Posted By: dOc !

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/11/09 02:30 AM

According to some people ..... no matter who puts the motor(or even the assembly of parts) together you should check EVERYTHING yourself !!

So WHY pay anyone to do the assembly at all ?

Posted By: Dabee

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/11/09 02:42 AM

It all depends on what you want. A mild street only engine for going to and from car shows and cruising, I would believe a crate will work or you could do it your self. If you want a race engine with big power that will last find a reputable shop that specializes in MOPARs. He will know all the little tricks required inside a race engine to make it reliable. There's a big difference between screwing an engine together and building an engine.

Posted By: DennisH

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/11/09 02:46 AM

I open books, but not engines. MoparEnginesWest (Nedbal-since sold business) did an outstanding job on mine. Sweet and I romp on it a lot. Have heard many crate horror stories.

Posted By: StealthWedge67

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/11/09 06:16 AM

Quote:

I know this is not the answer you wanted but I believe any one that can open a book can get one on how to rebuild a mopar engine and read it and then farm out the machine work and put it together themselves! No one is going to put more care and effort into a build than the owner!

Agreed! I'm buying parts right now for my 451. When I have everything, I'll take it to a machine shop for the bore, hone, mainline hone, & decking. From there, its all mine. there certainly are people that have more experience building than I do. But noone will watch the details on my motor like I will. If I run into something I'm not sure about, I go ask my machinist. Not only that, but with me, I just want the satisfaction of putting it together myself. Learning and understanding the motor inside and out is just as fun for me as driving it (well, maybe).

Posted By: cogen80

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/11/09 11:13 AM

Quote:

One guy gets a great job and the next is screaming about how he was screwded over.

problem is allot of times the guy yelling he got screwed over is a person that half a$@ed something and brought said problems on himself.

Posted By: CJK440

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/11/09 11:59 AM

Quote:

I would suggest that a person find a Mopar head that they are comfortable with & pay him to do one at home in his garage in his spare time.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engi - 01/11/09 01:37 PM

Quote:

According to some people ..... no matter who puts the motor(or even the assembly of parts) together you should check EVERYTHING yourself !!

That is if your putting it together yourself.

I'd go crate engine and be done with it and take my chances if I could'nt build it myself..

Posted By: B1arno

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engine? - 01/11/09 03:01 PM

I would buy a crate motor from someone like Indy Cylinder Head or Muscle Motors, probably not MP. I think they are more concerned with their reputations and do thier own work as opposed to having the motors built in mexico, although I may be wrong about that. Their prices seem to be a little more than MP, but I would pay that to get a better quality motor. I also think you would get better customer service. If you had a problem with a motor from Indy or Muscle Motors you could call them and talk to someone that actually knows how these motors are put together, not just someone behind a parts counter at the local Dodge dealership.

My 2 cents
Arno

Posted By: gch

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engine? - 01/11/09 05:02 PM

Quote:

I would buy a crate motor from someone like Indy Cylinder Head or Muscle Motors, probably not MP. I think they are more concerned with their reputations

FWIW I had muscle motors build me a shortblock several years ago.It ran great and made good power.I had a problem with it and Eric was great to deal with and PROMPTLY took care of it to my satisfaction.
Another good shop is Hensley Racing.I purchased a set of ported iron heads for above longblock.Ran great and made much power but engine smoked constantly.Replaced intake gaskets twice to no avail.Ken said send back and I'll do you another pair no questions asked.He did and smoking went away.You can't find service like that just anywhere.
Hughes Engines has always been good to me as well.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engine? - 01/11/09 05:05 PM

I've dealt with Dave (Hughes engines) & he's as conscientious as they come & a dyed in the wool Mopar nut.

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engine? - 01/11/09 05:06 PM

Thanks for all the good advice people. I now have a lot more info to pass along to those who need it.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engine? - 01/11/09 05:12 PM

Man, that motor sounded like it was a pain in the butt from the get go. I think he(cyl head guy) tried to cut corners on the first set of heads, sorry you had to do it(rebuild the motor) at least twice.

Posted By: CHRYCOFAN

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engine? - 01/11/09 05:28 PM

As far as the new 426 & 472 Crates I sure wouldn't worry about them now. With Gary stanton building them the quality is there. He also build's SB's & Wedge motors for them too as well as Still building Outlaw & Sprint motors. They had a new 410 Sixpack SB going on the Dyno the other day.

And yes he'll build anybody a motor. We've got an Indy-headed 528 Hemi being built there right now for a friend.

Butch

Posted By: aarcuda

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engine? - 01/11/09 07:08 PM

my friend has one of those 472 crate hemis in a satellite and it runs great. the only problem is he wount let me run it up to 6000 to REALLY test it out... but ive driven it and it runs hard. no noises. typical hemi issues

Posted By: gch

Re: What would you trust more, crate or shop built engine? - 01/11/09 08:03 PM

I don't feel like Hensley cut any corners at all.When extensively porting a 30 year old pair of heads it could be real easy to have a thin spot in a casting or a small crack go unnoticed.I have ordered from them since and will do so again.I have the utmost respect for Ken and the whole gang at Hensley.
The muscle motors deal was an honest mistake.Yea it sucks it happened to me and it cost a few extra bucks but what matters is when mistakes are made(and they will happen)the people are honest and do whatever they can to rectify the situation.Both times they did just that.There are some local guys I have used that havent.I am still dealing with the after effects of one on my corvette right now.