Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help?

Posted By: plazomat

Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/13/15 03:33 AM

Plaz

Looking at putting together a budget EFI fuel system based around the Ford F150 pump. Going to be running a GM TBI unit.

Which Pre/Post filters should I use?

Which regulator? The 2000 vette filter/regulator combo seems cool but the pressure is way to high for me - any one make a similar one for say 20lbs?

What about fuel line - should I plumb hard lines all the way? stainless flex hoses - cloth braided hose or just cheapy rubber hose?

Anyone do this on the cheap?
Car is 69 B Body

PLAZ

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/13/15 03:38 AM

What kind of engine are you putting this on? The gm tbi is awful low performance.

Posted By: plazomat

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/13/15 03:47 AM

just a stockish 318 - higher fuel pressure and a custom ecu should work ok she is just a cruiser...

looking for better drivability.

PLAZ

Posted By: OzHemi

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/13/15 03:58 AM

Instead of using an F150 pump, why not use the GM TBI one? and with tons of pickups and suburbans in wrecking yards that had the TBI 350 in them, you could even grab the fuel lines off one..just shorten them to suit and go from there ?

(You'd get the right fittings to screw right into the throttle body that way, plus the return line, the inline fuel filter, flex sections, etc)

Posted By: plazomat

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/13/15 04:34 AM

Well I already have a new F150 pump around from parts hoarding..and they are good for Multiport systems if I ever upgrade..

I have the lines at the throttle body - looking to build the system from the tank forward to the body.

Never thought of used lines - but the cost of bulk hard line is quite low - it would not be worth the effort to pull the lines..

PLAZ

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/13/15 05:46 AM

Some food for thought... I swapped a magnum 318 into my carbed 88 jeep. Used a 99 dakota engine and disected the harness out of a 95 grand Cherokee. Cheaper and definitely easier than what you're planning, no tuning to do and more power than a LA 318.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/13/15 07:29 AM

Port injection as a rule runs a lot more pressure than TBI. Not compatible AFAIK.

Kevin

Posted By: dynorad

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/14/15 01:28 AM

Cheapest option would be to take the FI intake, injectors, fuel rails, regulator, wiring harness and PCM out of the same vehicle.

Posted By: DDodger

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/15/15 07:34 PM

Quote:

Instead of using an F150 pump, why not use the GM TBI one? and with tons of pickups and suburbans in wrecking yards that had the TBI 350 in them, you could even grab the fuel lines off one..just shorten them to suit and go from there ?

(You'd get the right fittings to screw right into the throttle body that way, plus the return line, the inline fuel filter, flex sections, etc)

agree. i'd guess both the ferd pump and vette regulator are MPI. all tbi stuff is lower pressure, therefore stay with "all" tbi components. you can buy an inline pump, sorry i never remember who makes 'em. they look like the holley beer can pumps like the old commander and pro-jection used

you been to "binder planet" lots of info there on adapting and reprogramming gm computers

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47254

Posted By: RichV

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/16/15 06:36 AM

The GM TBI throttle body has a built in pressure regulator. You can not get much cheaper than using the GM TBI for fuel injection. The common ECUs are fully hacked and the info on them is free. You will need VSS vehicle speed sensor if you ever want consistent idle speed. All the parts can be junkyard sourced for really low prices.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/16/15 04:31 PM

why don't you just go w/ a 5.2 magnum and M1 intake? Everything is already there and you won't have to cobble something together. Really the costs of kits have dropped so much I have no idea why somebody would want to monkey w/ pieces from this and that these days.

Posted By: herkamer

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/17/15 07:40 PM

There is no difference in fuel pumps. The regulator controls pressure by returning the excess to the tank. Just because the pump is capable of 43psi doesn't mean it has to run at that pressure. Look up a pump for a 88 Dodge 318 TBI and a 92 Magnum. Same pump. The GM TBI has the regulator built into the back of the unit. Only the 454 one was adjustable with an allen wrench, which is the same unit Holley used for the Projection 2 bbl. Run what you have, it will work just fine.

Posted By: dogdays

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/17/15 07:44 PM

Maybe not so with deadhead systems.

But the GM TBI is well-known and can be made adjustable quite easily. There are tons of websites about these units.

R.

Posted By: herkamer

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/17/15 07:55 PM

Correct, I should clarify that only applies on a return type system.

What you are doing is essentially the setup on my W350. If I was going to do it again, I would use the Microsquirt. $369 with a wiring harness also. A few junkyard parts and connectors and you are up and running.

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/micro...ness-p-509.html

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/17/15 07:56 PM

Quote:

There is no difference in fuel pumps. The regulator controls pressure by returning the excess to the tank. Just because the pump is capable of 43psi doesn't mean it has to run at that pressure. Look up a pump for a 88 Dodge 318 TBI and a 92 Magnum.

Not according to the info at RockAuto they aren't.

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/17/15 10:27 PM

I don't know how much truth there is to it, but I have been told that running a high pressure port efi pump at low pressure tbi pressure levels can drastically shorten it's lifespan.

Posted By: plazomat

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/18/15 01:00 AM

Quote:

why don't you just go w/ a 5.2 magnum and M1 intake? Everything is already there and you won't have to cobble something together. Really the costs of kits have dropped so much I have no idea why somebody would want to monkey w/ pieces from this and that these days.

Well with my $100 TBI system off a junk 350, my $10 ford fuel pump, my $50 hacking of the computer so I can run either Speeduino or a megasquirt equivalent ie clone...I don't the prices of kits will ever fall far enough. Add another $50 bucks for a cheap android tablet and even have remote tuning and dashboard...

And for the prices of these Ford pumps I can run 2 in paralell and keep a spare in the trunk for less than a case of decent Canadian beer..

My money is tight - and this stuff fell into my lap - plus I can make it work....where is the fun in plug and play?

Plaz

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/18/15 02:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

why don't you just go w/ a 5.2 magnum and M1 intake? Everything is already there and you won't have to cobble something together. Really the costs of kits have dropped so much I have no idea why somebody would want to monkey w/ pieces from this and that these days.

Well with my $100 TBI system off a junk 350, my $10 ford fuel pump, my $50 hacking of the computer so I can run either Speeduino or a megasquirt equivalent ie clone...I don't the prices of kits will ever fall far enough. Add another $50 bucks for a cheap android tablet and even have remote tuning and dashboard...

And for the prices of these Ford pumps I can run 2 in paralell and keep a spare in the trunk for less than a case of decent Canadian beer..

My money is tight - and this stuff fell into my lap - plus I can make it work....where is the fun in plug and play?

Plaz

good luck with that. you are already about half way there to a complete kit. AND you won't have any headaches. Hope you've done this before.

Posted By: plazomat

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/18/15 04:56 PM

Half way? I have all Senors,wiring harness, throttle body, ecu-modded, fuel pump, return style sender unit,

I think I am a couple filters and fuel lines away...what am I missing?

I have not done this before but lots of the internet has....headaches I expect...who doesn't get those from modding classic cars...

Plaz

Posted By: feets

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/18/15 05:38 PM

Quote:

Half way? I have all Senors,wiring harness, throttle body, ecu-modded, fuel pump, return style sender unit,

I think I am a couple filters and fuel lines away...what am I missing?

I have not done this before but lots of the internet has....headaches I expect...who doesn't get those from modding classic cars...

Plaz

He may be referring to being half way there financially.

Sometimes, people with slush funds forget what it's like to pinch pennies in order to reach a goal.

To some on this board, a $500 expense is insignificant. To others it represents 6 months (or more) of savings.

It's real easy to spend someone else's money.

Posted By: plazomat

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/19/15 03:48 AM

Yup my wife and kids love to spend my money

...

But all I wanted was a recomendation to OEM fuel filters and which budget fuel line to get..

No I don't want to swap engines or pay Vic 2K+ for his system - no matter how good it is...

PLAZ

Posted By: herkamer

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/19/15 06:13 AM

Quote:

Quote:

There is no difference in fuel pumps. The regulator controls pressure by returning the excess to the tank. Just because the pump is capable of 43psi doesn't mean it has to run at that pressure. Look up a pump for a 88 Dodge 318 TBI and a 92 Magnum.

Not according to the info at RockAuto they aren't.

The pump itself is the same, the newer one has the modular unit. Been running the "high pressure" pump for 5 years with my TBI. It works just fine.

Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/19/15 04:26 PM

Are there any threads on using junk-yard fuel injection parts to convert my 360 to EFI? Kinda like a "recipe"? I have seen several threads on using the Mopar stuff, but that route looks to be a bit too involved. Frankly, this is the first I have heard of using GM and Ford parts and sounds like it is a lot easier than using Mopar stuff. Is it?

Posted By: herkamer

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/19/15 04:58 PM

Quote:

Are there any threads on using junk-yard fuel injection parts to convert my 360 to EFI? Kinda like a "recipe"? I have seen several threads on using the Mopar stuff, but that route looks to be a bit too involved. Frankly, this is the first I have heard of using GM and Ford parts and sounds like it is a lot easier than using Mopar stuff. Is it?

It depends if you are considering going with TBI or multi port. The next low buck one I do will use a Magnum MPFI top end with a Microsquirt computer to run it. The parts for these are plentiful and the only snag is changing the heads over. Once that is done, you have a fully tunable solution and a better top end to boot. For the TBI system I have running, I found an old Holley Pro-Jection system on Craigslist for $200, and scavenged the parts from that. There are several options depending how crazy you want to get.

Posted By: feets

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/19/15 05:19 PM

GM and Ford have tons more followers than Mopar. That means there are more DIY guys and tuners playing with their stuff.

Posted By: DDodger

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/19/15 08:34 PM

Quote:

GM and Ford have tons more followers than Mopar. That means there are more DIY guys and tuners playing with their stuff.

Part of this is because of the design of the systems. The ones over on (EG) Binder planet are GM units with removable chips These are easier to diddle with and reprogram (burn new chip) The Fords can be diddled, and are MAF so they are more self correcting

The Mopar units are more difficult to screw with. I seriously considered MS, but at the time after you wade through all the additions to actually get something hooked up "it adds up."

"For now" I ended up with a Holley HP ECU and a pieced together system. Not exactly cheap in my world, no.

For me, tho, I'm getting old. I don't have 30-40 years more to screw with the world.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/19/15 09:20 PM

GM LS system has some of the best support with pretty much infinite tuning possibilities either DIY or pay for tune. Parts like the ECM are junkyard cheap and plentiful.

A member here has a thread on his conversion.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rt=all&vc=1

You use a cam sensor from a Jeep that goes in place of the distributor.

Another member Jerry from SD Concepts makes a spacer collar so it will plug into A, LA, B and RB engines.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post8413811

Kevin

Posted By: Bens_Coronets

Re: Budget EFI fuel system suggestions - help? - 02/20/15 08:15 PM

I wanted my system to be all off-the-shelf from a local parts store, so I went with a Ford Superduty truck filter will work nicely between the pump and the TBI. The Hastings number is GF354 (Rock Auto) It's 3/8" barbs and if you really work the hose on you can put a second clamp next to the body to keep the hose on. It's only about 14 PSI for the TBI system, so no high pressure issues.

Generic fuel lines in/out of the TBI can be purchsed and bent (Rock Auto is a LOT cheaper than the local stores...):
Dorman 800-170 is 16mm x 1.5 hard 3/8" line that is 4" long

Dorman 800-151 is 14mm x 1.5 hard 5/16" line that is 18" long
Dorman 800-153 is 16mm x 1.5 hard 3/8" line that is 18" long

Dorman 800-156 is 14mm x 1.5 hard 5/16" line that is 30" long
Dorman 800-157 is 16mm x 1.5 hard 3/8" line that is 30" long

-Ben