list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades

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I might have to do this in a couple of stages since the budget right now probably is in the 1000$, range give take a bit (not including tires and rims here) I'll have more $ in a few months. So it sounds like the list might go something like this:

Basic check of bushings ball joints etc.
Sways
shocks
upper control arm or moog offset
wheels
alignment (wouldn't it make sense to do the alignment last here?)
then when i get a bit more $ torsion bars and steering box

Stages are okay. A lot of us do it that way. Firm Feel and Hotchkis offer parts in pieces so you can do the updates in stages.

The reason why I suggest an alignment first is so you can discover where you are at. The change from original alignment specs to the suggested specs can make a HUGE difference in feel. You may find that once you get this corrected, the feel you want falls in line with your expectations and you don't need to pursue further hardware changes. Additionally, the extra caster will increase steering effort which will make the over-assist of the steering box less annoying which may influence your decision to change the steering box. Plus, unless you do alter the upper control arms, you don't need alignments after shock, sway bar, or wheel/tire changes so that alignment will be good for a quite while, depending on how the budget lines up of course.

I see what you mean but wouldn't I have to change the upper control arms to get more positive caster?

Not always. Sometimes you can get to 2-3 degrees positive caster with stock stuff. But more likely and could get 3-5 deg positive with Moog 7103 bushings installed per diagram I showed.

Got to get it to an good alignment shop that does older car and performance stuff.

Bagge & Son on Washington across from MGM is the place my family gets older and new car alignments for last 50+ years. They understand the performance alignment deal. That's where I've got performance alignments on my Barracuda and sent others to.

Posted By: migsBIG

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/12/15 01:17 PM

Xyxxjx, welcome to Moparts! 1973 b-bodies are fun cars and you'll enjoy yours. As you read on here, lots of great info from our members and begining with the suspension on that car is a good place to start. As mentioned, what is your budget like, that will determine what upgrades/repairs you should start with. First start by getting under your car and take notes what is worn underneath on your frontend. Are the bushings worn, cracked or 'ballooned'? Are the seals cracked and and needing grease? A few new parts in key suspension ereas will make a big diffrence. Polygraphite is liked by most, but can be a bit stiffer than most like, So rubber of a good quality quality like Moog brand is probably best for stock suspension improvements. they also offer an offset upper control arm bushing that is much better than stock ones, but you probably won't need that if you go to tubular upper control arms. If you want tubular arms, I personally like the Firm Feel Inc and Magnum Force units. to be honest, I've had 2 set of Magnum Force on my cars and will be buying another set for my current project. Thos can be purchaed as standard adjustable and double adjustable. I really like the adjustable as it helps to dial in suspension tuning.

After all those are done, swaybars are a great add on and easy to do. I recommend something at least 1' in diameter will work on the front and a maximum rear diamiter one of .80 will do fine one the rear. Speaking of rear, how are your leaf spring bushings? Replacing worn pieces in the rear will help a little bit if your springs are in good shape.

Shocks are next as they can be done in a nice afternoon and many choices are available. I've used KYB's with nice results, but can be a bit 'dated tech' for some folks. I'm running a set of Blisteins I bought from Hotchkis Suspension for a car and were super nice. They may not offer them anymore, but other sources do and might be a cheaper way into better handeling than other options out there.

Steering box is your next step. If you have power or manual, those can be easily upgraded and Firm Feel Inc once again is a shop I can recommend. Their Manual steering boxes with faster ratio worm gear is a great way to improve steering (unless you have to park you car in a tight space). if you have power steering, they have rebuilt boxes with 3 "stages" of firmness for a much better 'road feel' to them (I recomend the stage 2, really is a nice set up). While your at it, they offer a fast ratio pitman arm kit that wil make turning your car a lot more fun. Caution though, the fast ratio arm had been known to interfere with exhaust header clearance and may not fit. If you already have headers or want to install some in the future, you will have to check around to see which ones will fit.

Torsion bars are a huge diffrence in handeling for a car. Bigger bars ( but not too big) will be like night and day. On a big car like yours, at least 1' inch diamiter will be needed. New units can be had and the only companies I would recommend for those are Firm Feel incs, Hotchkis and early production Mopar Performance.

Another thing most folks don't realize is subframe connectors will help stiffen the ride in the body, making for a better road feel. Since you don't have a welder, Hotchkis and Magnum Force have bolt in ones that can be done at home and no floor pan modifications to make them fit.

Tires will be determined by the rims you have. 14-15 inch rims will do nice with Cooper Cobra tires. They look great, handle better than stock, cheaper than BFG's and have good street/road feel to them. If you are upgrading to 16'+ plus wheels, your choices will be endless, so you will need to decide that then you get your wheel size figured out. While your at it, check your brakes out. Never hurts to have a nice set of pads and rotors one your car. I have had good results with raybestos for driver cars.

there are lots you can do later on with the suspension, but all these listed can be done at home with average tools (except the torsion bars and bushing, there are aftermarket tools you can get for those) and average garage skills. hope this helps you out, and hope you get to enjoy your hard work soon!

Posted By: stinger

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/12/15 01:49 PM

what about the sector support kit?
http://www.firmfeel.com/b_body_mopar_sector_support_kit.html

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/12/15 04:43 PM

1st thing is to call springs and things and get the front end rebuild kit. They have several types depending on you budget. You can also upgrade the T-bars, add front and rear sway bars, look online for a used PST front bar. I had one on a 67 coronet, worked great. As for rear springs if yours are ok you might want to drop the rear an inch w/ blocks. You can get a bunch of meat under a Gen III charger so that shouldn't be a problem. I'd drop the front at least 1.5" round it out w/ a decent set of shocks and you should have a well handling car that doesn't break your wallet.

Posted By: Steve Bryant

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/12/15 05:35 PM

Don't skimp on the front end rubber. I used standard parts-store quality when I replaced all the ball joints and bushings. In less than two years of casual driving, some of the rubber boots (protection cups) are starting to split so grease is exiting the joints and dirt is entering.

I would definitely stick with a brand name like Moog. On my E-Body, I also added a sway-bar and stiffer torsion bars, moderate shocks, radials and the car is rock solid.

A Steering Box replacement should be seriously considered. I didn't replace mine when the motor was out and I regret in in a major way since they are not that easy to remove. Even with all the improvements I made, the car would still shimmy a little over bumps and then it started to leak! The steering box is usually the last to be replaced and I should have made it a priority.

Lastly, this is a great time to clean and coat the underside if you haven't done so already. A little cleaning work and some good base epoxy will make things real pretty!

Attached picture 8427061-DSC02859.jpg

Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/12/15 07:05 PM

Since your asking for upgrades, I'll assume all the basics are in good working order.

Best bang for the buck, modern alignment. $100 As much positive caster as possible up t around 5*, zero to -1* camber, .125" total toe in. Simple solution, take it to your shop and ask for 2005 Mustang specs. they won't be able to get it there, but the closer they get, the better. May not be able to do this yourself, but it is a bargain for how it will transform the feel of the car.

Next up, I'd go for better shocks. I believe Firm Feel offers these in Bilsteins for the 3rd gen Chargers for $100 each. Or you can adapt to Camaro or Chevelle units and maybe save a few bucks in the process.

After that, although this may be interchangeable with the shocks for #2, Bigger sway bars. Careful shopping should net these for under $200 front or rear. However, stepping up to really big, tubular, or adjustable versions may run around $375 per end.

Those are the three biggest things you can do for a street cruiser. After that you can decide if you want to pursue other upgrades like higher spring rates, solid frame bushings, 17"+ sized wheels and tires, etc.

Pay a visit or make a call to Firm Feel. They tend to have the most product line and selection for 3rd Gen B Bodies.

Posted By: PLUM_72

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/12/15 08:10 PM

Steering box...need something with more road feel
Upper Control Arms....allow to align with more caster
Shocks...Something nice, Bilstein
Torsion Bars...larger size
might think about swaybars front and rear too.

Posted By: xyxxjx

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/13/15 05:30 AM

Wow, so many answers. Great info. I should say that i still have the original rims on, so i definitely want much beefier tires. I'm planning on 295/50/r15 in the rear not sure about the front but i would like as wide as possible. Anyone know how wide i can go in the front? I don't like the look of the tires being tucked in under the body, i want mine as far out as legally possible in California. I prefer the look of the tires being almost flush with the body without scraping of course. Is this just a matter of backspacing?

I might have to do this in a couple of stages since the budget right now probably is in the 1000$, range give take a bit (not including tires and rims here) I'll have more $ in a few months. So it sounds like the list might go something like this:

Basic check of bushings ball joints etc.
Sways
shocks
upper control arm or moog offset
wheels
alignment (wouldn't it make sense to do the alignment last here?)
then when i get a bit more $ torsion bars and steering box

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/13/15 07:18 AM

Old video if the Charger with hard street tires (255x60x15" BFG T/A)
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1031347024164

Posted By: roe

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/13/15 05:40 PM

Be careful on how wide you go on your front tires. The car may want to road wander/follow ruts. I was dealing with the same issue swapped to stock width tires, all of the dartiness/rut following went away. All of it. I don't know where the tipping point is, and I havent measured the width of mine but a WAG would be that they were around 10" wide or so. I never woukd have guessed that tire width would make a car feel so shifty.

Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/13/15 05:41 PM

Quote:

I might have to do this in a couple of stages since the budget right now probably is in the 1000$, range give take a bit (not including tires and rims here) I'll have more $ in a few months. So it sounds like the list might go something like this:

Basic check of bushings ball joints etc.
Sways
shocks
upper control arm or moog offset
wheels
alignment (wouldn't it make sense to do the alignment last here?)
then when i get a bit more $ torsion bars and steering box

Stages are okay. A lot of us do it that way. Firm Feel and Hotchkis offer parts in pieces so you can do the updates in stages.

The reason why I suggest an alignment first is so you can discover where you are at. The change from original alignment specs to the suggested specs can make a HUGE difference in feel. You may find that once you get this corrected, the feel you want falls in line with your expectations and you don't need to pursue further hardware changes. Additionally, the extra caster will increase steering effort which will make the over-assist of the steering box less annoying which may influence your decision to change the steering box. Plus, unless you do alter the upper control arms, you don't need alignments after shock, sway bar, or wheel/tire changes so that alignment will be good for a quite while, depending on how the budget lines up of course.

Posted By: roe

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/13/15 05:47 PM

Oh and I went from no sway bar to just a stock front sway bar and the improvement was night and day. You dont realize how much body roll you have until its not there anymore. Corners and curves with speed were sooooooo much better.

Posted By: Steve Bryant

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/13/15 06:30 PM

Agreed with the sway bar. I added a stock sized front sway bar and it dramatically changed the overall feel in both corners and even in simple turns. That was overall the biggest bang for my buck once I had resolved the front end problems.

Posted By: pro451bee

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/14/15 07:50 PM

17X9 or 18X9 all around , 0 offset rims , Year one has nice one in 17 inch, 255 50 17 tires all around look nice on the 9" rims and are around 27" tall for the larger car like your charger.I run a 17X9 all around on my 69 Bee , great ride and tracking/road feel ,not rough at all.A 275 45 17 would be a great size for a muscle car rear but no one makes one.Some 255 50s are close in profile on the 9" wide rim.275 40 17 look good on the 9" wide but are a little short at 25.7" tall.18 inch rims may have more size choices but price and weight goes up too.

Posted By: pro451bee

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/14/15 07:53 PM

Another shot

Attached picture 8429015-S6300761#3.JPG

Posted By: xyxxjx

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/15/15 03:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I might have to do this in a couple of stages since the budget right now probably is in the 1000$, range give take a bit (not including tires and rims here) I'll have more $ in a few months. So it sounds like the list might go something like this:

Basic check of bushings ball joints etc.
Sways
shocks
upper control arm or moog offset
wheels
alignment (wouldn't it make sense to do the alignment last here?)
then when i get a bit more $ torsion bars and steering box

Stages are okay. A lot of us do it that way. Firm Feel and Hotchkis offer parts in pieces so you can do the updates in stages.

The reason why I suggest an alignment first is so you can discover where you are at. The change from original alignment specs to the suggested specs can make a HUGE difference in feel. You may find that once you get this corrected, the feel you want falls in line with your expectations and you don't need to pursue further hardware changes. Additionally, the extra caster will increase steering effort which will make the over-assist of the steering box less annoying which may influence your decision to change the steering box. Plus, unless you do alter the upper control arms, you don't need alignments after shock, sway bar, or wheel/tire changes so that alignment will be good for a quite while, depending on how the budget lines up of course.

I see what you mean but wouldn't I have to change the upper control arms to get more positive caster?

Posted By: Big Bad Bee

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/15/15 06:59 AM

According to Rick Ehrenberg at Mopar Action Magazine, the single most valuable suspension/handling upgrade is a good set of performance wheels and tires. IIRC, he stated when outlining the build of the Green Brick Valiant, that they represent 80% of the performance upgrade on modern car sport suspension. After owning a Shadow ES Turbo, a Shelby Daytona VNT and a Neon ACR and having messed with multiple sets of tires on each, I can absolutely say that I agree. If I were attempting to get my car to handle, I'd start there, then shocks, then anti sway bars then torsion bars.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/15/15 08:01 AM

Quote:

According to Rick Ehrenberg at Mopar Action Magazine, the single most valuable suspension/handling upgrade is a good set of performance wheels and tires. IIRC, he stated when outlining the build of the Green Brick Valiant, that they represent 80% of the performance upgrade on modern car sport suspension. After owning a Shadow ES Turbo, a Shelby Daytona VNT and a Neon ACR and having messed with multiple sets of tires on each, I can absolutely say that I agree. If I were attempting to get my car to handle, I'd start there, then shocks, then anti sway bars then torsion bars.

True to some degree. I thought he was fixed on 15" tires at first, but that seems not the case. But good tires and rims are probably going to be $400 a corner, $1600. Sway bars, T-bars, and UCA bushings will be half that.

Posted By: xyxxjx

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/15/15 08:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

According to Rick Ehrenberg at Mopar Action Magazine, the single most valuable suspension/handling upgrade is a good set of performance wheels and tires. IIRC, he stated when outlining the build of the Green Brick Valiant, that they represent 80% of the performance upgrade on modern car sport suspension. After owning a Shadow ES Turbo, a Shelby Daytona VNT and a Neon ACR and having messed with multiple sets of tires on each, I can absolutely say that I agree. If I were attempting to get my car to handle, I'd start there, then shocks, then anti sway bars then torsion bars.

True to some degree. I thought he was fixed on 15" tires at first, but that seems not the case. But good tires and rims are probably going to be $400 a corner, $1600. Sway bars, T-bars, and UCA bushings will be half that.

I really like the look of high sidewalls for older cars like 295/50/15. I think I'm looking for a rim/tire combination that strikes a balance between "good looks" and performance. Remember this is not a track car but a street car. how tall would you say the sidewall could be to achieve this?

Posted By: HP2

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/15/15 12:00 PM

I have run BFG's 295/50/15 on my 72 Charger with lots of space left. i even have the same tires on my 70 GTX wich have less room. I think I have 5.5" backspace on both cars.
Can I adapt the above mentioned formula on a 70 Cuda, are the geometry issues the same as on a late b-body?

Posted By: BrianT

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/15/15 04:32 PM

My car isn't built for performance driving and it's an A body, but the biggest single improvement I've made so far was welding in a simple set of sub frame connectors. They are cheap and I had the local muffler shop weld them in. It really stiffened up my chassis and took away all of the flexing that I felt going over bumps and uneven surfaces. Total cost was less than $200.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/15/15 08:59 PM

Quote:

I have run BFG's 295/50/15 on my 72 Charger with lots of space left. i even have the same tires on my 70 GTX wich have less room. I think I have 5.5" backspace on both cars.
Can I adapt the above mentioned formula on a 70 Cuda, are the geometry issues the same as on a late b-body?

The tire fitment will be different on a 70 Cuda. But all else is the same.

What geometry issues were mentioned?

Just try to get the alignment to 2-3 degree positive camber. More likely to get that with the offset bushings. If you have it aligned with stock parts for ~$100 and can't get 2-3 degrees of positive caster, you'll have to go back home, put in the offset bushings or tubular upper control arms. THEN get another ~$100 alignment.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/15/15 09:03 PM

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I have run BFG's 295/50/15 on my 72 Charger with lots of space left. i even have the same tires on my 70 GTX wich have less room. I think I have 5.5" backspace on both cars. . ...

I assume that's in the rear. What's space on inside or outside on the 72 Charger? Is the car lowered, stock, or raised in the rear?

Have you tried wide tires in the front? If so, what has worked and how much clearance?

Posted By: mkdart

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/15/15 10:41 PM

I'm with Brian,Before I installed frame connectors
and went over railroad tracks.The car felt like I
was on raft floating down the river.It fixed that.
Mike

Attached picture 8430261-2014-07-1619.54.03(2).jpg

Attached picture 8430261-2014-07-1619.54.03(2).jpg

Posted By: GY3

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/15/15 10:55 PM

Subframe connectors, as said, make a WORLD of difference!

I had them put in for a grand total of $150.00 by a really good fabricator and the difference was amazing!

A good foundation is where you start, IMO.

Attached picture 8430278-2015-01-18-21-02-59.jpg

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/15/15 11:58 PM

Original poster has 73 Charger with Isolated K-member front frame. So solid isolators would come first before Subframe connectors.

Here is the 73-79 Iso K-member with isolators replaced with aluminum ones

Attached picture 8430340-73UpIsoKmember.jpg

Attached picture 8430340-73UpIsoKmember.jpg

Posted By: xyxxjx

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/16/15 12:30 AM

Quote:

I have run BFG's 295/50/15 on my 72 Charger with lots of space left. i even have the same tires on my 70 GTX wich have less room. I think I have 5.5" backspace on both cars.
Can I adapt the above mentioned formula on a 70 Cuda, are the geometry issues the same as on a late b-body?

mine is a 73 charger don't know if there is a differences. I was told on a forum I could run 295/50/15 on 10" wheels, but would be nice with a few more opinions. I dont know what backspacing to get. You say you have 5.5" how far out is the outside of the tire and what's the width of your wheel?

Posted By: xyxxjx

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/16/15 01:44 AM

Quote:

Original poster has 73 Charger with Isolated K-member front frame. So solid isolators would come first before Subframe connectors.

Here is the 73-79 Iso K-member with isolators replaced with aluminum ones

Is it a hard job to install the aluminum isolators? Do you have to take the motor out?

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/16/15 02:00 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Original poster has 73 Charger with Isolated K-member front frame. So solid isolators would come first before Subframe connectors.

Here is the 73-79 Iso K-member with isolators replaced with aluminum ones

Is it a hard job to install the aluminum isolators? Do you have to take the motor out?

I think I'd ask that as a separate question topic. I've never had a 73 -up car.

Just guessing, maybe you could lower it 1/2" or so and slip the rubber out and aluminum in. That sounds good, but I'd like to hear from someone that's done it.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/16/15 02:08 AM

Never use steel wheels!
Light weight wheels will improve Everything--even braking! Fact.

Posted By: xyxxjx

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/16/15 02:28 AM

Quote:

Never use steel wheels!
Light weight wheels will improve Everything--even braking! Fact.

makes sense.

Posted By: cudazappa

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/16/15 04:15 AM

Best bang for the buck on a 73+ suspension:
Assuming good front end components and you've chosen your wheels and tires.
On the alignment, you can't use those special bushings. You've got a 73+ B-body. They are designed for the 72 down. But because Chrysler switched to a GM style, you can get some decent movement from the UCA cross bar, especially if you use shims to cancel out some anti-dive.
1) Sway Bars. Front and rear. Make sure your front k-frame has the tabs. If not you'll be fabbing them. Cheap source for sway bars: Chrysler Cordoba 300s and the late B cop cars and Magnum GTs
2) Eliminating iso-clamp (crap). Solid K-frame bushings (can be done with the engine in car, see attachment). $225 from firm feel. You can go poly (~$60) but one of my buddies I talked into the solid conversion from his poly and even he said it was night and day over the poly. Convert the rear suspension to a 71-72 setup. There's rubber between the rear axle and the leaf springs. Can you say axle wrap & wheel hop? On my 300 I used ESPO for new springs (came with the round front spring eye) and was a direct replacement for the originals. You'll need a washer for the rear spring perches to make the hole smaller for the spring pilot (very clear once you take all of it apart)
3) Torsion bars. For a cruiser start at the 1.06 with a 73+ car. Big upgrade from stock. Or steal the torsion bars from that Chrysler 300 / cop car in step one. Those are .98" (if yours aren't already)
4) Shocks. For the front, you'll need to adapt good 67ish GM A-body shocks (there's a thread in the handling section about this very topic) and in the rear the 71-72 B-body application. Bilsteins are very nice shock for the $$$.
5) Subframe connectors. A little tricky on the 73+ cars, but can be done. I am unaware of any aftermarket solution for this. Will need to home brew a solution. Totally worth it.
After this you start getting into diminishing returns on a cruiser. Tubular upper control arms start being needed if you can't get your alignment where it needs to be. Boxing the Lower Control Arms is relatively cheap, but doesn't need to be done. Same as 11/16" tie rods, cheap, easy, but not necessary.

Attached File

8430686-cpd001_install.pdf (191 downloads)

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/16/15 04:28 AM

Quote:

Best bang for the buck on a 73+ suspension:
Assuming good front end components and you've chosen your wheels and tires.
On the alignment, you can't use those special bushings. You've got a 73+ B-body. They are designed for the 72 down. But because Chrysler switched to a GM style, you can get some decent movement from the UCA cross bar, especially if you use shims to cancel out some anti-dive.
1) Sway Bars. Front and rear. Make sure your front k-frame has the tabs. If not you'll be fabbing them. Cheap source for sway bars: Chrysler Cordoba 300s and the late B cop cars and Magnum GTs
2) Eliminating iso-clamp (crap). Solid K-frame bushings (can be done with the engine in car, see attachment). $225 from firm feel. You can go poly (~$60) but one of my buddies I talked into the solid conversion from his poly and even he said it was night and day over the poly. Convert the rear suspension to a 71-72 setup. There's rubber between the rear axle and the leaf springs. Can you say axle wrap & wheel hop? On my 300 I used ESPO for new springs (came with the round front spring eye) and was a direct replacement for the originals. You'll need a washer for the rear spring perches to make the hole smaller for the spring pilot (very clear once you take all of it apart)
3) Torsion bars. For a cruiser start at the 1.06 with a 73+ car. Big upgrade from stock. Or steal the torsion bars from that Chrysler 300 / cop car in step one. Those are .98" (if yours aren't already)
4) Shocks. For the front, you'll need to adapt good 67ish GM A-body shocks (there's a thread in the handling section about this very topic) and in the rear the 71-72 B-body application. Bilsteins are very nice shock for the $$$.
5) Subframe connectors. A little tricky on the 73+ cars, but can be done. I am unaware of any aftermarket solution for this. Will need to home brew a solution. Totally worth it.
After this you start getting into diminishing returns on a cruiser. Tubular upper control arms start being needed if you can't get your alignment where it needs to be. Boxing the Lower Control Arms is relatively cheap, but doesn't need to be done. Same as 11/16" tie rods, cheap, easy, but not necessary.

Thanks for the insight into the 73-79 B-bodies.

I did a quick Google search to see what upper bushings where used cause I though the shafts changed things. I didn't click the links to check further. Sorry about that.

You're right, that's a plus since you can just put more shims in the rear to get more caster.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/16/15 04:31 AM

Quote:

Never use steel wheels!
Light weight wheels will improve Everything--even braking! Fact.

Yes, but how significant is the improvement? I don't think it's a huge seat of your pants improvement. Many steel 15" rims are as light as 19" aluminum rims and less moment of inertia.

Never, is a pretty bold statement.

Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/16/15 05:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Never use steel wheels!
Light weight wheels will improve Everything--even braking! Fact.

Yes, but how significant is the improvement? I don't think it's a huge seat of your pants improvement. Many steel 15" rims are as light as 19" aluminum rims and less moment of inertia.

Never, is a pretty bold statement.

Well, going from a 15" steel wheel to a 15" aluminum wheel would make a positive difference so long as the tire size wasn't drastically larger. The farther away the mass is from the center of the wheel, the more difficult it is to rotate it. If you really wanted to reduce moments of inertia, you'd look for lighter tires as it's further away from the center than the wheel.

But onto the suspension help stuff...

Posted By: 340duster340

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/16/15 06:08 AM

I think we are splitting hairs on a 4000# car with a 60/40 weight ratio.

Just grip it and rip it, stay in budget and gave a good time...and most important avoid the kiss of death which is making the car in-operable. Don't ask me how I know.

Posted By: HP2

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/16/15 11:12 AM

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I have run BFG's 295/50/15 on my 72 Charger with lots of space left. i even have the same tires on my 70 GTX wich have less room. I think I have 5.5" backspace on both cars.
Can I adapt the above mentioned formula on a 70 Cuda, are the geometry issues the same as on a late b-body?

The tire fitment will be different on a 70 Cuda. But all else is the same.

What geometry issues were mentioned?

Just try to get the alignment to 2-3 degree positive camber. More likely to get that with the offset bushings. If you have it aligned with stock parts for ~$100 and can't get 2-3 degrees of positive caster, you'll have to go back home, put in the offset bushings or tubular upper control arms. THEN get another ~$100 alignment.

I have 275's in the back of my Cuda, and it's tight

My geometry issuses was the camber thing you gave me an answer on. Will get the offset bushings this time. I didn't know they existed and have never been able to get the caster where it should be before... Thanks

Posted By: HP2

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/16/15 11:29 AM

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I have run BFG's 295/50/15 on my 72 Charger with lots of space left. i even have the same tires on my 70 GTX wich have less room. I think I have 5.5" backspace on both cars. . ...

I assume that's in the rear. What's space on inside or outside on the 72 Charger? Is the car lowered, stock, or raised in the rear?

Have you tried wide tires in the front? If so, what has worked and how much clearance?

Yes, that's in the rear. For the moment I have 8" rims with 9.0" slicks on so I can't say for sure. All I can say is that I had 10" rims and I'm pretty sure that back spacing is 5.5", and I also remember that I was surprised the Charger had so much roomier wells than the 70 GTX. Back then I had leaf springs from an old 383 car, not low and not high.

Up front I have never had any wide tires on the Charger.

Posted By: HP2

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/16/15 11:39 AM

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I have run BFG's 295/50/15 on my 72 Charger with lots of space left. i even have the same tires on my 70 GTX wich have less room. I think I have 5.5" backspace on both cars.
Can I adapt the above mentioned formula on a 70 Cuda, are the geometry issues the same as on a late b-body?

mine is a 73 charger don't know if there is a differences. I was told on a forum I could run 295/50/15 on 10" wheels, but would be nice with a few more opinions. I dont know what backspacing to get. You say you have 5.5" how far out is the outside of the tire and what's the width of your wheel?

I'm not sure either but I think the 73's are the same in that area. I'm pretty sure you can run the 295's with 10" and 5.5" back spacing.
There is a big wheel shop in the L.A. area where some Mopar nuts worked and they knew exactly what wheels and how wide I could fit on my 70 Chally some years ago. I'll see if I can find the invoice with the name of the shop.

Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/16/15 06:09 PM

Knowing this is a '73 is why I suggested the alignment first, because, as Gary says, you have entirely different upper control arms than most the responders in this thread and you have different capabilities as a result of that.

I also agree dumping all the iso-clamp and rubber bushing parts will be an improvement. It will cost around $350 to do the front end. The rear conversion at $250 could be done too. Is $600 consider in the "bang for the buck" zone? It definetely needs to be done, question is when does the budget allow it?

So I'll stick by my alignment first, sway bars second. After that decide on if you want to bump the iso-clamp elimination up the list as this will impact your choice of shocks.

For 15" tires, there are no ultimates and as a consumable, you can experiment with different ones to see what you like. Mickey Thompson SR radials may be the best all around selection with soft compound and H speed ratings. Anything else commonly available for a low price is going to be a high treadwear, long life mileage tire.

Posted By: xyxxjx

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/17/15 05:44 AM

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Best bang for the buck on a 73+ suspension:
Assuming good front end components and you've chosen your wheels and tires.
On the alignment, you can't use those special bushings. You've got a 73+ B-body. They are designed for the 72 down. But because Chrysler switched to a GM style, you can get some decent movement from the UCA cross bar, especially if you use shims to cancel out some anti-dive.
1) Sway Bars. Front and rear. Make sure your front k-frame has the tabs. If not you'll be fabbing them. Cheap source for sway bars: Chrysler Cordoba 300s and the late B cop cars and Magnum GTs
2) Eliminating iso-clamp (crap). Solid K-frame bushings (can be done with the engine in car, see attachment). $225 from firm feel. You can go poly (~$60) but one of my buddies I talked into the solid conversion from his poly and even he said it was night and day over the poly. Convert the rear suspension to a 71-72 setup. There's rubber between the rear axle and the leaf springs. Can you say axle wrap & wheel hop? On my 300 I used ESPO for new springs (came with the round front spring eye) and was a direct replacement for the originals. You'll need a washer for the rear spring perches to make the hole smaller for the spring pilot (very clear once you take all of it apart)
3) Torsion bars. For a cruiser start at the 1.06 with a 73+ car. Big upgrade from stock. Or steal the torsion bars from that Chrysler 300 / cop car in step one. Those are .98" (if yours aren't already)
4) Shocks. For the front, you'll need to adapt good 67ish GM A-body shocks (there's a thread in the handling section about this very topic) and in the rear the 71-72 B-body application. Bilsteins are very nice shock for the $$$.
5) Subframe connectors. A little tricky on the 73+ cars, but can be done. I am unaware of any aftermarket solution for this. Will need to home brew a solution. Totally worth it.
After this you start getting into diminishing returns on a cruiser. Tubular upper control arms start being needed if you can't get your alignment where it needs to be. Boxing the Lower Control Arms is relatively cheap, but doesn't need to be done. Same as 11/16" tie rods, cheap, easy, but not necessary.

How much do you think I could save by getting Chrysler Cordoba 300 sway bars (1975+ right?) Do you mean junk car parts or can I get nos?

Posted By: cjskotni

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/17/15 04:44 PM

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How much do you think I could save by getting Chrysler Cordoba 300 sway bars (1975+ right?) Do you mean junk car parts or can I get nos?

If you are on a budget, I have my original stabilizer bar and links from my 73 SE. Bar is blasted powder coated black already. Let me know if you're interested.

Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/17/15 05:01 PM

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How much do you think I could save by getting Chrysler Cordoba 300 sway bars (1975+ right?) Do you mean junk car parts or can I get nos?

You could save a lot, but how easy are 75-79 cars to find in your neighborhood?

Careful shopping around the web could net you a 1.125 solid front sway bar for around $100 or less. Same with the rear.

The balance with "budget" upgrades is that finding deals takes time. If you have to have it done in time for a drive a few weeks from now, then you may have to bite the bullet and pay premium pricing for some stuff. If this is a budget approach and saving money is more important than time, then simply start searching and when you find a deal, snag it.

This, again, is why an alignment is first on my list. Its is very low cost and may net you a lot of improvement from where you are at, and can help focus the search for the next upgrade.

So, you earlier said you had around a grand to spend initially. I'd start with verification of all current hard parts. If you need to replace anything there, that may consume $50 to a couple hundred. Alignment is another $100. That means you may have around $600-800 left in this initial effort. You can either buy two brand new premium front/rear sway bars or replace all the iso bushing pieces. However, replacing the rear iso clamp parts WILL require two new rear shocks, so there is another potentially $200 to add to this conversion will drive its price up to $800+. So it sounds like if you have not verified all your hardware is solid to begin with, that is where you start.

After that, you can pick up sway bars or bushing, depending on choices made above.

Posted By: cudazappa

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/17/15 05:37 PM

with everything Tony said above. It is spot on.

I personally go bushings before springs because the chassis will still roll on the rubber bushings instead of the suspension. That's just my

Posted By: 72N96RR

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/17/15 10:09 PM

Cant really say it was a great deal but when I replaced a brand new set of KYB shocks with new Bilstiens the ride was like night and day..I have reproduction Goodyear Polyglas tires on a 72RR and the shocks made a huge impact on the drive quality...Not cheap but well worth it IMO..

Attached picture 8432476-1972-plymouth-road-runner-gtx.jpg

Posted By: xyxxjx

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/17/15 11:31 PM

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How much do you think I could save by getting Chrysler Cordoba 300 sway bars (1975+ right?) Do you mean junk car parts or can I get nos?

If you are on a budget, I have my original stabilizer bar and links from my 73 SE. Bar is blasted powder coated black already. Let me know if you're interested.

Thanks for the offer, but I'm trying to get stronger than stock bars.

Posted By: feets

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/17/15 11:52 PM

http://firmfeel.com/b_body_mopar_front_sway_bar.html

Posted By: xyxxjx

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/17/15 11:52 PM

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How much do you think I could save by getting Chrysler Cordoba 300 sway bars (1975+ right?) Do you mean junk car parts or can I get nos?

You could save a lot, but how easy are 75-79 cars to find in your neighborhood?

Careful shopping around the web could net you a 1.125 solid front sway bar for around $100 or less. Same with the rear.

The balance with "budget" upgrades is that finding deals takes time. If you have to have it done in time for a drive a few weeks from now, then you may have to bite the bullet and pay premium pricing for some stuff. If this is a budget approach and saving money is more important than time, then simply start searching and when you find a deal, snag it.

This, again, is why an alignment is first on my list. Its is very low cost and may net you a lot of improvement from where you are at, and can help focus the search for the next upgrade.

So, you earlier said you had around a grand to spend initially. I'd start with verification of all current hard parts. If you need to replace anything there, that may consume $50 to a couple hundred. Alignment is another $100. That means you may have around $600-800 left in this initial effort. You can either buy two brand new premium front/rear sway bars or replace all the iso bushing pieces. However, replacing the rear iso clamp parts WILL require two new rear shocks, so there is another potentially $200 to add to this conversion will drive its price up to $800+. So it sounds like if you have not verified all your hardware is solid to begin with, that is where you start.

After that, you can pick up sway bars or bushing, depending on choices made above.

A sway bar for 100$ sounds great. Any tips on websites that run discounts often?

Definitely will do the alignment first and bushings have been bumped up the list a bit. The stock ones appear to be ok.

Posted By: xyxxjx

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/18/15 02:06 AM

Is this bar any good?

www.summitracing.com/parts/aco-806

Posted By: jcc

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/18/15 02:57 PM

I don't consider a suspension rebuild or an alignment an "upgrade". More of a given.

I would also think everyone should define in their suggestion "bang". As already briefly mentioned, for the OP, I think "seat of the pants" improvement is the goal for bang. An Ultimate tire choice I think will show up on the stop watch. IMO on the seat meter, in order, TB, shocks, swaybar. or maybe TB, swaybar, shocks. regardless TB's first, easy to install, not expensive. Rear swaybar is for fine tuning and later.

Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/18/15 04:50 PM

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A sway bar for 100$ sounds great. Any tips on websites that run discounts often?

Not really. The best deals won't be found on regular web sites that sell parts. They will come from here, Ebay, swap meets, local car clubs.

Addco, Sway Away, Hellwig are all good products that tend to be more affordable in price.

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I don't consider a suspension rebuild or an alignment an "upgrade". More of a given.

I would also think everyone should define in their suggestion "bang". As already briefly mentioned, for the OP, I think "seat of the pants" improvement is the goal for bang.

I would agree with you on these points, but we tend to look at it from a different perspective than the average owner. To someone going from a stock to a radial friendly, performance oriented alignment, it will definetely feel like an upgrade. I'd also say that "bang" comes from the seat of the pants feel of lessened body roll, reduction in power steering over assist, and a generally more "solid" feel to directional changes. All hard items to quantify directly to stepped performance increases, but items that generate a steep increase in driver confidence.

Posted By: feets

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/18/15 05:41 PM

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I don't consider a suspension rebuild or an alignment an "upgrade". More of a given.

I would also think everyone should define in their suggestion "bang". As already briefly mentioned, for the OP, I think "seat of the pants" improvement is the goal for bang. An Ultimate tire choice I think will show up on the stop watch. IMO on the seat meter, in order, TB, shocks, swaybar. or maybe TB, swaybar, shocks. regardless TB's first, easy to install, not expensive. Rear swaybar is for fine tuning and later.

You can build a rather healthy suspension for the cost of a new set of wheels and performance tires.

Good suspension and old BFGs will likely turn better times than worn out suspension and hot rod tires.

Posted By: xyxxjx

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/19/15 06:38 AM

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I don't consider a suspension rebuild or an alignment an "upgrade". More of a given.

I would also think everyone should define in their suggestion "bang". As already briefly mentioned, for the OP, I think "seat of the pants" improvement is the goal for bang. An Ultimate tire choice I think will show up on the stop watch. IMO on the seat meter, in order, TB, shocks, swaybar. or maybe TB, swaybar, shocks. regardless TB's first, easy to install, not expensive. Rear swaybar is for fine tuning and later.

So buying just the front sway bar first and the rear later would be ok?

What thickness torsion bars would you recommend? Seems the TBs from firm feel are almost 400, do you know of any cheaper ones?

Posted By: jcc

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/19/15 07:25 PM

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I don't consider a suspension rebuild or an alignment an "upgrade". More of a given.

I would also think everyone should define in their suggestion "bang". As already briefly mentioned, for the OP, I think "seat of the pants" improvement is the goal for bang. An Ultimate tire choice I think will show up on the stop watch. IMO on the seat meter, in order, TB, shocks, swaybar. or maybe TB, swaybar, shocks. regardless TB's first, easy to install, not expensive. Rear swaybar is for fine tuning and later.

So buying just the front sway bar first and the rear later would be ok?

What thickness torsion bars would you recommend? Seems the TBs from firm feel are almost 400, do you know of any cheaper ones?

1. Highly suggest you start with only a front bar, the problem you will face is every suspension change you make, effects everything else, some more then others and rear swaybar should be, if needed, towards the end of your process or money.

IMO. Its my belief a rear bar's purpose is often to correct a problem/shortcoming elsewhere in the set-up, and as a last item in the package, that sometimes can be justified.
2. As time goes on, others over the last decade are coming to the realization of TB's over 1" are quite useful on our old mopars for non track use, and on the used market I suspect more just under or around 1" TB's will be available at nice pricing, and with few miles. They will help you get started.

Posted By: xyxxjx

Re: list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades - 02/20/15 06:51 AM

Thanks to everyone who answered to this thread, lots of great information here. This will serve as a great roadmap for my suspension.

list of "Bang for the buck" suspension upgrades