Will I Fry My Header Coating?

Posted By: Big Bad Bee

Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 06:49 AM

As I was installing my TTi headers I hopped on the TTi website to see what torque specs were on the flange bolts. In the instuctions I saw an alarming bit. It basically said that I should run cast iron exhaust manifolds or an old pair of headers to break in a new engine because of the mixture problems and other conditions that create enough heat to burn the coating off around the header flange. My headers came with the ceramic coating that was pretty scratched up from storage and shipping. I cleaned and scuffed them and shot them again with ceramic coating.

Is there a way to preserve the coating? Something tells me I should have had these baked at a powder coating outfit before I put them on this engine. The engine is installed and I REALLY don't want to remove it...

Posted By: moparmarks

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 08:30 AM

If your breaking in a cam then your probably toast the coating. Roller cam should not be a problem.
The coating needs to go through a couple normal heat and cooling cycles to cure properly.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 12:31 PM

Lindy,

I've fired off several fresh HEMI and B/RB motors with TTI headers in place having the brite finish TTI coating and experienced no issues with damage to the coatings, even in spots where I had to "tune" the tubes with a hammer/block for dimples for clearance and actually cracked the coating...TTI coatings are very tough, I'd just keep a watchful eye on then during break in, purchase a large high speed commercial fan from a local HD or Lowes to blast some air at the front of the car while running, helps also

Mike

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 01:13 PM

IF you have plenty of timing in the engine and do not run it with retarded total timing you will not hurt the coating no matter what engine or what cam

Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 03:46 PM

Do you have a temp gun? Although you will have a lot going on at start-up, it might be a good idea to monitor the tube and flange temp. If it starts to go high, just shut it down and give it a chance to cool.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 04:01 PM

Quote:

As I was installing my TTi headers I hopped on the TTi website to see what torque specs were on the flange bolts. In the instuctions I saw an alarming bit. It basically said that I should run cast iron exhaust manifolds or an old pair of headers to break in a new engine because of the mixture problems and other conditions that create enough heat to burn the coating off around the header flange. My headers came with the ceramic coating that was pretty scratched up from storage and shipping. I cleaned and scuffed them and shot them again with ceramic coating.

Is there a way to preserve the coating? Something tells me I should have had these baked at a powder coating outfit before I put them on this engine. The engine is installed and I REALLY don't want to remove it...

I fried a set of TTI headers on a 440 breaking in the cam. They were glowing cherry red and I didn't have the timing or mixture correct. It's tough to know right at first. This happened within 30-60 seconds of the motor starting.
Mine developed a crack in between the tubes in the middle from the overheat situation. I took it off and welded it up. Nothing I could do about the coating. Next time I will know better.

Look close you can see the crack.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 04:12 PM

I have never had one set of headers turn red or get overly hot on any break in, I must be lucky. For the price of TTIs they should jump out of the box and self instal. That said keep an eye on them and use a big fan.

Posted By: wingman

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 04:12 PM

Hard to know where your timing and mixture will be on initial startup. You might get lucky and be fine, or you could hurt the coating.

I'm pretty sure all coated headers carry this disclaimer.

Posted By: skicker

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 04:58 PM

Quote:

I'm pretty sure all coated headers carry this disclaimer.

Doug's have the same disclaimer. It's happened to someone somewhere...they sent them back...hence the disclaimer. I've done two with no issues...Challenger 1 did his and got burned. (pun intended) It's a chance you take...

Posted By: CCPcoatings.com

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 05:09 PM

Quote:

As I was installing my TTi headers I hopped on the TTi website to see what torque specs were on the flange bolts. In the instuctions I saw an alarming bit. It basically said that I should run cast iron exhaust manifolds or an old pair of headers to break in a new engine because of the mixture problems and other conditions that create enough heat to burn the coating off around the header flange. My headers came with the ceramic coating that was pretty scratched up from storage and shipping. I cleaned and scuffed them and shot them again with ceramic coating.

Is there a way to preserve the coating? Something tells me I should have had these baked at a powder coating outfit before I put them on this engine. The engine is installed and I REALLY don't want to remove it...

You lost me at having the headers "baked at a powder coating outfit". I'm not sure how that would help you since you're trying NOT to overheat the headers in the first place.

To answer your question, YES you will generally trash the bright ceramic coating if you're firing up a new motor that hasn't been tuned properly or if you dyno an engine. Too lean and too rich are BOTH BAD. It's unlikely you'll hurt the flanges but too lean will overheat the coating from the flange to mid primary. Too rich and it will overheat mid primary to collector. The headers below took about a minute or two to discolor when the engine was too lean.

It sounds like you need to take the headers off anyway since the coating arrived damaged. Why would you accept them?

Posted By: CCPcoatings.com

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 05:18 PM

Quote:

Do you have a temp gun? Although you will have a lot going on at start-up, it might be a good idea to monitor the tube and flange temp. If it starts to go high, just shut it down and give it a chance to cool.

That's not going to help much in that its not calibrated for the bright finish. So you'll be off between 150f and 300f to start. Secondly, by the time you see over 1100f it would be too late to correct it.....

If you refuse to take the headers off your best bet would be to aim some heavy duty shop fans directly at the headers to keep them as cool as possible.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 06:56 PM

Just have a timing light at the ready ... connected and the distributor bolt ready to be loosened as soon as it's running and get the timing to 35* advanced ...Have the mixture screws out 2 turns , breaking in the cam you'll be off the idle circuit anyway and if your gas is 10% ethanol make sure to bump the primary jets up 2 or 3 sizes. .

Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 07:00 PM

So what is the maximum recommended temp for break-in on a new set of ceramic coated headers?

Posted By: b54406barrel

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 07:15 PM

Saw one being broken in with the hooker ceramic coating. They had put some folded towels on the fenders wells & used a couple of those box fans they got at a goodwill for $10 to aim at the headers. Fired the motor & kicked on the fans. Ran for 20 minutes a 2K. Headers stayed shiny.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 07:21 PM

Quote:

Just have a timing light at the ready ... connected and the distributor bolt ready to be loosened as soon as it's running and get the timing to 35* advanced ...Have the mixture screws out 2 turns , breaking in the cam you'll be off the idle circuit anyway and if your gas is 10% ethanol make sure to bump the primary jets up 2 or 3 sizes. .

I don't start an engine for break in unless it has a timing light, vacuum gauge, remote tachometer, and a "real" gauge mounted in the oil sending unit, along with a hand held temp gun, all at the ready installed, along with a large fan, or multiple fans,... to start an engine without any of these things in place is foolish, I want to know at a glance what's going on as the motor is turning 2 grand for the next 15-20 minutes, for the carb(s) settings I usually note the full number of turns for the fuel/air idle screws, and turn them all out 2/3's of their travel (as long as it's not a reverse idle circuit!) for initial start up/break in, and monitor assorted temps of the water, heads, block, intake, exhaust, and vac readings to ensure a happy motor break in period

mike

Posted By: parksr5

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 08:40 PM

I fried mine; hookers. Had the timing light ready but the friend I had helping me was too worried about topping off the power steering fluid instead of putting the timing light on it first.

It was too late when he noticed that some of the tubes were glowing red. The timing was way retarded at the start. I guess I should have been the one maning the engine compartment while he worked the key and monitored the gauges.

With some of what was mentioned above, I'm sure it might be possible not to fry them though.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 09:47 PM

Quote:

I fried mine; hookers. Had the timing light ready but the friend I had helping me was too worried about topping off the power steering fluid instead of putting the timing light on it first. It was too late when he noticed that some of the tubes were glowing red. The timing was way retarded at the start. I guess I should have been the one maning the engine compartment while he worked the key and monitored the gauges.

With some of what was mentioned above, I'm sure it might be possible not to fry them though.

On my mopars, I use a starter switch attached to my starter relay and start the car under the hood. Or just use a screwdriver on the starter relay. I usually work by myself.

Posted By: Big Bad Bee

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/05/15 10:19 PM

Man, this is all super great. I'm about to assemble my exhaust. Is it best to break in the engine with open headers or connected to the muffler system or does it matter?

You guys are awesome!

Lindy

Posted By: skicker

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/06/15 12:07 AM

Close the exhausts...It's a lot better when you can also hear everything that's happening...

Posted By: b54406barrel

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/06/15 12:21 AM

Quote:

Close the exhausts...It's a lot better when you can also hear everything that's happening...

100%!

Posted By: Big Bad Bee

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/07/15 02:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Close the exhausts...It's a lot better when you can also hear everything that's happening...

100%!

I shall do it! I've been thirsting to get those together.

Hey Rex, how the heck have you been? We need to hook up at a show this summer so we can park the cars together!

Posted By: Stroker Scamp

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/07/15 03:57 AM

Mine started to discolor once due to timing, damage was done but I was able to shine them back up with some Mothers and elbow grease

Posted By: b54406barrel

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/07/15 06:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Close the exhausts...It's a lot better when you can also hear everything that's happening...

100%!

I shall do it! I've been thirsting to get those together.

Hey Rex, how the heck have you been? We need to hook up at a show this summer so we can park the cars together!

Hey Lindy, looking forward to seeing you & your B this Summer!

Posted By: Big Bad Bee

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/07/15 08:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

As I was installing my TTi headers I hopped on the TTi website to see what torque specs were on the flange bolts. In the instuctions I saw an alarming bit. It basically said that I should run cast iron exhaust manifolds or an old pair of headers to break in a new engine because of the mixture problems and other conditions that create enough heat to burn the coating off around the header flange. My headers came with the ceramic coating that was pretty scratched up from storage and shipping. I cleaned and scuffed them and shot them again with ceramic coating.

Is there a way to preserve the coating? Something tells me I should have had these baked at a powder coating outfit before I put them on this engine. The engine is installed and I REALLY don't want to remove it...

You lost me at having the headers "baked at a powder coating outfit". I'm not sure how that would help you since you're trying NOT to overheat the headers in the first place.

To answer your question, YES you will generally trash the bright ceramic coating if you're firing up a new motor that hasn't been tuned properly or if you dyno an engine. Too lean and too rich are BOTH BAD. It's unlikely you'll hurt the flanges but too lean will overheat the coating from the flange to mid primary. Too rich and it will overheat mid primary to collector. The headers below took about a minute or two to discolor when the engine was too lean.

It sounds like you need to take the headers off anyway since the coating arrived damaged. Why would you accept them?

I never replied to this. I thought maybe if I had the ceramic coating on my headers baked before I installed them it would help them survive the high temperature of break In. I can see not that it would t help because it's more about extreme temperatures than about the green coating on the headers.

Posted By: AndyF

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/07/15 09:30 PM

You won't fry the coating if the engine is tuned properly.

Posted By: Lefty

Re: Will I Fry My Header Coating? - 02/07/15 10:50 PM

Timing is the killer of header coating in my experience. Having the spark set too late causes the mix to still be burning inside the header tube and red hot happens fast.

Prime the engine with oil 1st before installing the dist.

If you can use an old dist cap that's drilled to be able to see the #1 terminal inside the cap. Set the motor to TDC on #1 (verify by looking down the #1 spark plug hole to make sure you're not 180 off) and look at the holes in the cap. On a B/RB the rotor turns CCW, so spin the dist till the rotor is just barely contacting the #1 terminal from the CCW direction. Then turn the dist approx 35% CLOCKWISE to advance the timing and lock it down. This way you will never start the motor with the charge burning in the head pipe.

If you don't have a cap to drill, use a marker on the cap for the #1 edge location and marks on the dist body for the rotor edges. Brake clean will remove the marker so you can make changes trying to line up the rotor

Mark the dist base to block in case you have to temporarily retard the spark to get the engine to fire initially. Put the dist right back after it fires.

A point and shoot thermometer is mandatory to watch the head pipe temps. Shut it down if they get above 800F. The break in does not have to be in one 30 minute session. Six 5 minute sessions or ten 3 minute sessions is the same.

Fans are a must imo, same for a timing light to get it exactly at 35 before - immediately, 1st thing.

I'm sure some will poo poo my method and I may not have 100% correctly described it, but I've used it on both TTI and Dougs headers and never burn't the coating nor wiped a cam lobe. (yet, fingers crossed)