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LED Tail Lights

Posted By: FASTBACK340

LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 03:25 AM

After striking out trying to find LED tail lights for my `68 Barracuda I decided to do some research. After finding a few DIY-style videos and web pages explaining how to determine what resistors for which bulbs I assembled a tail light set of running/brake lights and also the reverse light. The tail lights are 68 LED's bundled in 17 groups of 4 bulbs with a resistor per bundle. Very inexpensive parts, about $50 total, but very labor-intensive assembling. I have about 3 hours in the completed left side circuit boards alone. But the results….. wow.


Prototype boards were about $6
Red LED's $14 for 100
White LED's were about $2 per 10
Resistors are approx. $3 per 100
Diodes are about $4 per 100
Here's the site I used to calculate the needed resistors: LEDCALC.Com

I bought enough prototype boards for 3 sets of tail lights.
I bought about 200 Red LED's, 50 White LED's, then there's solder and a selection of resistors. The diodes are used to prevent back-feeding since the tail & brake inputs operate the same LED's, just that the tail lights voltage is dropped with a resistor. The video's and text explain and demonstrate it nicely.






The reverse lights in the `68 Barracuda are a joke. All they do is illuminate for passing a state safety inspection. This upgrade changes that.

A dozen white LED's mounted in a thin sheet of plastic that lights the entire lens, and throws about 10X the light.





Full-tilt, such as the brake lights, they are incredibly BRIGHT. Considering how small the tail lights are I hope it helps.
Posted By: Jerry

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 06:52 AM

nice work. that's an awesome upgrade.
Posted By: roadrunninMark

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 06:53 AM

Looks great, can't wait to see in car.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 07:34 AM

I've wanted to do this upgrade in my Dart for awhile now.
Posted By: moparjimbo

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 07:43 AM

Many places sell LED "bulbs" setups that just are a direct replacement for bulbs like 1156, 1157, 194, etc.

My kid works at:

http://www.taninautoelectronix.com/category-s/1817.htm

Some of the reverse lights are indeed like a frikken spotlight!
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 08:15 AM

So how does it differentiate between running lights and back up lights?

Less LED fire for running lighta or different intensity?
Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 03:39 PM

Since you used red LED's I'm guessing you are not planning on using the factory lenses to cover the bulbs. I'm not sure I would replace the reflector portion of a rear lens with something non-reflectorized.
Posted By: Fury Fan

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 04:37 PM

It's recommended to use the same color LED as the lens covering it, so using red LEDs does not necessarily mean he's ditching the factory lens. But I suspect there will be more to his story so we'll see what he does.
Posted By: Rob C

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 04:47 PM

Wow! Nice bro. I need to come ker and see how this works in action. Put on a pot of coffee!
Posted By: uneasyrider

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 05:01 PM

Very good info!
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 05:12 PM

HATE them...all of them. there is ZERO reason one would need to blind the person behind them w/ LEDs, now if you could subdue them, then carry on. Lots of hard work but after being behind some of these new cars w/ LEDs I have grown to hate them.
Posted By: Bad340fish

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 05:14 PM

Very Cool! I have a 68 as well and that is something that really needs to be done for sure.
Posted By: jcc

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 07:44 PM

Quote:

HATE them...all of them. there is ZERO reason one would need to blind the person behind them w/ LEDs, now if you could subdue them, then carry on. Lots of hard work but after being behind some of these new cars w/ LEDs I have grown to hate them.



I can't say i have ever been annoyed by anyone's rear lights, wonder if I'm just lucky or lead a sheltered life.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 08:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

HATE them...all of them. there is ZERO reason one would need to blind the person behind them w/ LEDs, now if you could subdue them, then carry on. Lots of hard work but after being behind some of these new cars w/ LEDs I have grown to hate them.



I can't say i have ever been annoyed by anyone's rear lights, wonder if I'm just lucky or lead a sheltered life.



Rush hour(s)... Try being behind a new Audi or whatever that new SUV was this morning.... 5 minutes behind him and I was seeing spots! I don't get me started w/ the ashhats that don't turn their high beams off or use thos 1,000,000 candle power "driving lights" It's not like we live out in the sticks here folks.
Posted By: stumpy

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 09:15 PM

If they are bothering you then you are seeing them which is their function.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 09:23 PM

Have you check with the local authoriies on modifying the tail, brake and back up lights as far as the state and federallaws are concerned? Ifnot you may want to before you have to go see a judge about your mods on your car I've been down that road a long time ago in CA, NOT GOOD
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 09:39 PM

Quote:

HATE them...all of them. there is ZERO reason one would need to blind the person behind them w/ LEDs, now if you could subdue them, then carry on. Lots of hard work but after being behind some of these new cars w/ LEDs I have grown to hate them.



68 barracuda's have tiny brake lights. And the area is all in one square spot. Follow one of those in the dark some time.

The 67's took more area end to end. And the 69's filled the hole housing.

Not even close to the light area of a 69/70 charger.

I'd think 68 Barracuda's have about the smallest red taillight area of any 67-71 A/B/E body. Some of the early 60's cars had smaller taillights.

I think at some point DOT mandated taillight area and specs in the 60's.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/29/14 11:48 PM

Quote:

If they are bothering you then you are seeing them which is their function.



no need to blind people. Never rear ended somebody because I couldn't see there tail lights. I do agree, our older cars needs some help form time to time. That's why I cleaned the snot out on my housings and repainted the "back splash" Chrome. It's amazing how much "funk can get into a "closed" unit.
Posted By: Rob C

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/30/14 12:38 AM

OK, we get it, you hate them.
Posted By: Mebsuta

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/30/14 01:17 AM

Quote:


Rush hour(s)... Try being behind a new Audi or whatever that new SUV was this morning.... 5 minutes behind him and I was seeing spots! I don't get me started w/ the ashhats that don't turn their high beams off or use thos 1,000,000 candle power "driving lights" It's not like we live out in the sticks here folks.



I agree it's too much sometimes.

Extra lights also attract the police.
Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/30/14 03:03 AM

Quote:

Very Cool! I have a 68 as well and that is something that really needs to be done for sure.



What makes the `68 unique is the differences from the `67 & `69, which share ALOT of details (egg crate grilles, reverse lamps on the rear valance, larger tail light area….) But I've always disliked the practicality of those little lights (reminds me of my old `57 VW Beetle; those were TINY!) but I like the way they look. I tried those Pep Boys plug-in LED bulbs: still just a small centralized bit of light. Having people see my brake lights during the day is an issue. That's the reason for the LED conversion, but just the way some people would complain about free money, I knew I'd have some finger waving coming my way. And as someone already mentioned, there's more to the story…..

Driving in Queens, N. Y. is like driving amongst one big dysfunctional drivers-ed class on the roads. If I get your attention, that's my intention. Which brings me to….

Brightness. Much like the way some people like to fire-up their new header installation before the mufflers go on, I posted a full-power, 12 volt head-on shot of the Sun. I know it's bright. I plan on dropping the power. Which brings me to…..

You tie both your tail & brake lights into the LED board. But you MUST install diodes to prevent back-feeding from one circuit to the other. By adding, say…. a higher ohm resistor on your tail light feed and a lower ohm on the brake feed, you have 2 different power input levels creating a difference in brightness. I plan on toning down both the tail AND brake lights.

And as far as traffic laws, I live in Queens, N.Y. Things are a bit "lax" when it comes to an older guy in a special interest car. Besides, there's so much incompetence on the roads….


Anyway, here's some darkness shots with the lights powered by a 9V battery. With the factory lenses they look good! Once I have them in the car I'll play with some dropping resistors to tone them down a bit. With 12V they are a lot brighter! Here's the reverse lights.


And the brake lights…..


Real hard to tell with a digital photo, but I really like them. Nice & bright, but not obnoxious. We do more testing…..
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/30/14 03:12 AM

back up looks really cool. Be neat to see it on the car. I was worried you 'd see a bunch of red/white dots thru the factory lenses.
Posted By: Bad340fish

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/30/14 05:33 AM

I like those, good job!

Currently my backup lights don't work since I removed the console where the switch was. I have considered doing something like you have done but use red LEDs behind the back up lights to make them an auxiliary brake light. So when your tails and turns are on it's just the small lights, hit the brakes and the whole assembly is red. It would probably look dumb but it would be enough of a change to be an eye catcher.

My car has been hit from behind before so that changes my angle on this some also.
Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/30/14 11:08 PM

Quote:

back up looks really cool. Be neat to see it on the car. I was worried you 'd see a bunch of red/white dots thru the factory lenses.



Thanks for the comments guys! I install these pre-made digital taillights at work all the time. I see that there's not much involved in their assembly. A little research, a few failed attempts on a smaller scale…. and I have a working version. Best part is it's not much money in parts, just VERY labor intensive on a back-yard scale. Soldering 68 LED legs in a marathon session was nuts…..plus the resistors, and jumper wires.

But I got what I wanted. If anyone wants to give it a shot, I'll try and help as best as I can. If your good with detail-work, it's not bad. Just requires a little patience.
Posted By: roadrunninMark

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/31/14 12:37 AM

Looking real nice all complete. If you were going to make them sequential, how would you do that?
Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/31/14 02:57 AM

Quote:

Looking real nice all complete. If you were going to make them sequential, how would you do that?



With a kit like this, which I think I can assemble.....
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/31/14 03:03 AM

Nice!


I did a off-the-shelf/DIY setup as well for anyone with round lights that might be interested.

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=67744.msg695422#msg695422

Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/31/14 02:54 PM

Quote:

Nice!


I did a off-the-shelf/DIY setup as well for anyone with round lights that might be interested.

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=67744.msg695422#msg695422





I tried that route but found nothing pre-made that looked right. I saw those round ones and thought of you E-body and Camaro guys right away. I still might modify the design a bit. 68 bulbs may be excessive .....

It's all trial & error at this point. The satisfaction was figuring out HOW to make it WORK. Making re-finements is purely esthetics at this point.
Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/31/14 07:20 PM

I received a PM from another member asking about actual schematic's on wiring. The link I provided; http://ledcalc.com walk you through. Knowing the generalized voltages of the bulbs used, milli-amp drawn (20 is the baseline from what I've read), and how many LED's used it will explain what, and where, to wire in everything. Believe me, I'm no techno-head that builds electronics, this is my VERY FIRST attempt at this. All I possess is some detail-related hand/eye skills and patience. The site pretty much spells out what to do.



……………………………………………………...
LED lights have a rating called "forward voltage". You ideally want about a 20 milliamp draw. Go to this site http://ledcalc.com plug-in the numbers. Here's an example of voltage. This is from the link I posted above.

As supply voltage:
For molex: 5, 7 and 12 volts
Batteries: 1.5 and 9 volts

As led forward voltages:
Red and green: 2 volts
Blue and white: 3.0 - 3.5 volts

Led current:
20mA will work for most regular leds.
Superbright leds can go from 30mA up to several amps.

Now say you want to add an LED light for an indicator light in your case, this is how I would calculate:

How many bulbs will fit the area? If your using a single WHITE LED you would need a 470 ohm resistor with a 12 volt power supply. If you wanted to use, say 3 bulbs, you would use a 180 ohm resistor, wired into the power side of the LED's, which is the LONGER leg, and ground the other side, switching it on/off from either side.

Click on the link I posted and plug in what your working with. THE SITE ALSO SPELLS OUT A DIAGRAM UNDER THE GURU SETTING. And if there's an odd amount of bulbs, the schematic will break in down into the correct circuits with the correct resistance for the amount of bulbs. Red LED's are 2 volts forward voltage, white 3. Don't forget I used 3mm LED's for the reverse lights for a smaller light, and I used 5mm bulbs for the brake/tail lights.

I'm going to cut & paste this question & answer so hopefully this might help someone else wondering the same thing.
Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 12/31/14 08:25 PM

I'll amend this post once more:

I did a fast search on e-Bay and found light bulb bases sold in bulk specifically for LED conversions. Solder these on to your circuit board harness and plug them into your existing harness.…..
Posted By: roadrunninMark

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/01/15 12:48 AM

Excellent info guys, I think I will try to make my own led taillights. Also interested in making them sequential.
Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/01/15 02:54 AM

And I'm going to re-vamp everything.... Too many LED's in the tail lights, too close together. Plus I want to follow the contour of the lense better.

Here we go with the esthetics..... To be continued
Posted By: jcc

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/01/15 05:36 PM

BTW, nice groundbreaking on this topic and and for sharing your homework.
Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/01/15 06:38 PM

Quote:

BTW, nice groundbreaking on this topic and and for sharing your homework.



Revisions..... Revisions.......

I'm thinking less is more. 42 LED's, spread out a bit.... might look and work better. Let me & the Dog run out to the garage and solder this up.

He helps me.....
Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/02/15 12:14 AM

OK, we're done……

I whipped-up a second board with less bulbs, 26 less to be exact. I like the layout, not crazy about the actual bulb placement. More R & D work needed…..

I've officially reached the point where I'm going to purchase sheets of hi-temp ABS sheet, cut them on my router, and try to assemble THE nicest, most function set I'm capable of. I'll stop only when I reach a point of satisfaction.

Here's the up-dated version compared to the original flame-thrower. I wanted a perimeter and center.



Here it's powered up with a 9V battery…..


As you can see, the outer ring is slightly "off' from where I ideally wanted it. I'm limited to the bulb placement in the pre-drilled holes in the prototype board I bought.


Proper placement of the bulbs is key, plus now I'm thinking of using 3mm bulbs instead of the 5mm, but 3 across the perimeter instead of two. More intensity, less area. More experimenting coming….

Here's my shop-hound checking my solder joints…..
Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/02/15 12:30 AM

Quote:

Excellent info guys, I think I will try to make my own led taillights. Also interested in making them sequential.



Make's me feel good to see someone else maybe take a shot at this. Getting it to work is relatively easy. Just takes some effort to get there. I've made 2 sets of boards so far and I see 2-3 more attempts before I have something that "looks right". Fortunately the parts are inexpensive.

Who knows. If I get it nice enough there might be a couple of `68 Barracuda sets on e-Bay in the future….
Posted By: jcc

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/02/15 12:33 AM

So I can do my initials?

And I thought dogs were color blind?
Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/02/15 12:50 AM

Quote:

So I can do my initials?

And I thought dogs were color blind?



Yeah, this is turning into a project (on top of the other projects I have planned for the winter) that's taking on a life of it's own. I really want it to look nice. Initials, words, arrows, whatever. It's all trial & error.

And as for the dog, if he had thumbs I'd have to hide the car key's. That Shepherd is smarter than some of my neighbors kids……
Posted By: roadrunninMark

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/02/15 02:21 AM

I like the "flame throwers". Could you wire something (diode/resistor?) on it to make it less intense?
Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/02/15 03:12 AM

Quote:

I like the "flame throwers". Could you wire something (diode/resistor?) on it to make it less intense?



Yes, adding a dropping resistor to the power feed for each circuit will decrease the brightness. I'm still experimenting as I'm totally re-vamping EVERYTHING. This thread may go to sleep for a month (unfortunately, most electronics are shipped from China….) but I do have an even better method up my sleeve that will be even MORE appealing for the DIY'er.

Stay tuned. I'm far from done with this…….
Posted By: roadrunninMark

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/02/15 03:26 AM

Cool...standing by.....
Posted By: Fury Fan

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/02/15 04:27 AM

Quote:

Quote:

BTW, nice groundbreaking on this topic and and for sharing your homework.



Revisions..... Revisions.......

I'm thinking less is more. 42 LED's, spread out a bit.... might look and work better. Let me & the Dog run out to the garage and solder this up.

He helps me.....


FWIW -
Truck-Lite was one of the first companies to release LEDs for HD trucks, and their initial 4" round S/T/T light had, coincidentally, 42 LEDs. As the product matured/improved, they were able to drop that down to 6 LEDs via optics in the lens and mini-reflectors around each LED. They even had a single 'super LED' version for awhile but I think it went disco, possibly due to reliability issues (if that 1 LED goes out, the light is dead and a DOT issue) or because it looked just like a regular light so it had no bling. (although it reduced temptation of theft, and theft of LED lights was an issue when they first came out. They were pretty pricey - I remember LED STT were about $40 each and backing lights were about $80 and that was jobber-price.)

I agree that going to smaller LEDs and a higher qty will decrease the 'bulbiness' of your light. Plus if individual LEDs die (which was a problem with early trucking lites, as the soldering caused issues to the LEDs) you have less of a lighting drop.

It was pretty common in the early days of trucking lites to see lights with a handful of in-op LEDs, but reliability of all the brands (including the overseas stuff) appears to be much better. And cost is down tremendously.
Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/02/15 11:18 PM

Speaking of cost:

LED
Tail lights

200 red 3mm LED's : $28
50 white 3mm LED's: $10
ABS Plastic sheet-Enough for 6 pair of tail lights: $3.75
100 Diodes: $5
100 Resistors: .99 ....shipping was $3.23!
Bulb bases so it can "plug-in" to factory harness: $2.98 ea. for 10 1156 & 1157 bases $9.89 total shipped
Incidentals: Solder, 24 gauge wire, clear silicone, etc......
As you can see, it's not much to invest. As I experiment I'll learn more. Dakota gets close to $300 for some of their LED kits. If I burn through a $100 and succeed I'm a winner.
Posted By: jcc

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/03/15 12:15 AM

I see you have found your passon, you might be the next LED garage Bill Gates.
Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/03/15 01:27 AM

Quote:

I see you have found your passon, you might be the next LED garage Bill Gates.



LOL! Believe me, if there was money in this I would have bought a set from someone else! And as for pass(i)on I'm just following through on a project. I do that ....
Posted By: thehemikid

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/03/15 03:26 AM

Fwiw, ...I bought these about 8&1/2 yrs ago.

http://www.hitechledproducts.com/product_info.php?products_id=339

Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/03/15 05:25 AM

Quote:

Fwiw, ...I bought these about 8&1/2 yrs ago.

http://www.hitechledproducts.com/product_info.php?products_id=339





FWIW.... Although they advertise '68 Barracuda LED tail lights, they show a '67 tail light (no one will notice) and what looks like a Pep Boys LED strip attached to a bayonet base. For $179.

I'll pass thank you.
Posted By: thehemikid

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/03/15 05:50 AM

Sorry, didn't mean imply this as an option for you. Was just saying what I did, ...& how long ago.

I see it's listed at about $20+ less than when I bought them.

I complement you on your work, patience, attention to detail, self sufficient, & wanting to continually improve on a project till it reaches a level of satisfaction. Pride in your work.
Posted By: FASTBACK340

Re: LED Tail Lights - 01/03/15 06:25 AM

Quote:

Sorry, didn't mean imply this as an option for you. Was just saying what I did, ...& how long ago.

I see it's listed at about $20+ less than when I bought them.

I complement you on your work, patience, attention to detail, self sufficient, & wanting to continually improve on a project till it reaches a level of satisfaction. Pride in your work.



LED kits have been around for years for popular models. Digi-tails had a nice set of sweeping LED's for a '68 a few years ago. No sales .... No product ..... I contacted them several times and got promises and was told to check back. I got tired of waiting, I'll do it myself. I'm enjoying this challenge!
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