Posted By: dan9
90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/16/14 05:26 PM
On a small block does it matter how it is "clocked"?
90 degree oil filter adaptor question
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/16/14 05:42 PM
No, just clock it where you have the most filter clearance & hold it in that position as you draw it up into place (50 lbs) cuz you dont want to be turning it once the adapter is close to being bolted to the block (it's hard on the circular gasket). Glue the gasket to the recess first (Permatex MA99 high tack, the red gasket cenent/glue in the spray can is excellent). FYI be sure to clean the block recess squeaky clean & thin washer goes under bolt head on the outside (use sealer) and the thick cork washer on the bolt inside the concave cup. Felpro sells the large circular gasket seperately which is a bit thicker than the one that comes in the 3 piece MP kit & it seals better but with good prep you will be fine with either one
Posted By: dan9
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/16/14 05:53 PM
Thanks for the info. I'm not sure if I put that cork gasket in. I'm looking for anything that would have caused main and rod bearing failure during the cam break-in process. Everything was new, oil pressure was 60 for about 10 minutes then started falling. I had 60 lbs. while priming. Crank is out now getting turned. Trying to figure out what the failure was.
Posted By: mopars4ever
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/16/14 06:19 PM
do you really need it? i got rid of mine and just used a shorter filter. one less thing to worry about.
Posted By: dan9
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/16/14 08:10 PM
Yes that is what I'm thinking. Did you use the cork gasket between the screw-in adaptor and the block and a thin gasket between the plate and the block? It sounds dumb but I didn't take it apart. Just trying to get it right.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/16/14 10:38 PM
Quote:it fell to what? more info on the bearings & what abnormality did you see/hear during the break that made you abort & tear it down (other than the lowering psi). EDIT were the bearings scratched (debris) or metal to metal contact or blued, more info please. you had plenty of psi, we're missing sumpin. not installing the cork inner gasket (& I doubt if he forgot it) would let the oil bypass the filter but this sounds like a different problem as opposed to unfiltered oil during the brief breakin. Did the psi go to zero or near zero?
I'm looking for anything that would have caused main and rod bearing failure during the cam break-in process. , oil pressure was 60 for about 10 minutes then started falling. Crank is out now getting turned. Trying to figure out what the failure was.
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/17/14 11:50 AM
If there was oil pressure the mains should have been getting plenty of oil. Even 10 lbs would have been oiling the mains with plenty oil when at idle. The filter is not likely your problem
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/17/14 03:32 PM
Unless it was leaking externally the problem isn't the adapter. If anything the oil would be bypassing the filter. Your drop in pressure seems either coincidental to the engine warming up or a symptom of the bearing failure, depending on the failure.
I think the pressure drop is a symptom not a cause of the problem.
I think the pressure drop is a symptom not a cause of the problem.
Posted By: dan9
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/17/14 04:24 PM
Pressure fell steadily from 60psi to 10psi and I shut it off. Lifters didn't pump up. Pulled it to see what the problem was. Bearings were scratched, thrust bearing down to copper on both sides. I found a piece of rtv lodged in the pick-up tube. Crank is at the machine shop now. I just wanted to do a follow-up, all should be good to go now after a good cleaning and new lifters. Thanks guys for the help.
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/17/14 10:27 PM
Quote:
Pressure fell steadily from 60psi to 10psi and I shut it off. Lifters didn't pump up. Pulled it to see what the problem was. Bearings were scratched, thrust bearing down to copper on both sides. I found a piece of rtv lodged in the pick-up tube. Crank is at the machine shop now. I just wanted to do a follow-up, all should be good to go now after a good cleaning and new lifters. Thanks guys for the help.
Now you know why I almost never use RTV. Had a leaky aftermarket chrome thermostat housing I "fixed" by gooping RTV on it. Wiped off the extra that oozed out when I tightened it down. Never thought once about what might have oozed in. A chunk broke off and kept the thermostat from opening. Ended up blowing out a freeze plug on I15 in San Diego. I was in the left lane and by the time I could get to a safe stopping area (had my daughter with me) the engine was toast.
Posted By: dan9
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/17/14 10:54 PM
I agree with you about the rtv. It used to say on the instructions that I once read 30 plus years ago to snug it down a little after applying it. After 24 hrs. you could crank it down. Sometimes we tend to use it as a gasket sealer instead of it's intended purpose. That really sucks how that stuff can ruin your day when it gets in the wrong places.
Posted By: moparts
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/17/14 11:06 PM
On the small block oil pressure,
Are you sure that the oil plug was installed at the end of the lifter valley inside the block near the distributor .
Also there is an oil cap inside near the filter inside the oil passage
Are you sure that the oil plug was installed at the end of the lifter valley inside the block near the distributor .
Also there is an oil cap inside near the filter inside the oil passage
Posted By: dan9
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/17/14 11:25 PM
Yes we checked the plug inside the plug. With the blockage I think I was getting temporary decent oil pressure but a severe lack of volume. Thanks for the tip though, I can see how that plug can get overlooked.
Posted By: mopars4ever
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/18/14 06:53 PM
Quote:If you get rid of the 90 degree adapter you just need the gasket on the block, the filter plate and the threaded piece the filter screws on. That`s it.
Yes that is what I'm thinking. Did you use the cork gasket between the screw-in adaptor and the block and a thin gasket between the plate and the block? It sounds dumb but I didn't take it apart. Just trying to get it right.
Posted By: VCODE
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/18/14 11:06 PM
Not to highjack, but what is the original cast iron 70 340 bolt length 
Bob
Bob
Posted By: dan9
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/22/14 06:19 PM
If you are asking about the bolt that attaches the adaptor to the block it is 2 7/8 in. measured from under the head.
Posted By: Sixpak
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/22/14 06:27 PM
Cut the filter open and see what sort of junk is in it. Bearing material would be obvious but it sounds like either the clearances were off or else there was junk in the oil galleys. Also pull apart the oil pump and see what the rotors look like. Who assembled the motor? They are responsible for the final cleanliness of all of the parts. Any oiling modifications on the motor? I knew a guy who put the copper tube in a small blocks oil galley for roller lifters and forgot to drill out the feed for the mains, wiped the crank out. Look for missing screw in and press in plugs in the galleys as well.
Posted By: dan9
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/27/14 07:12 PM
Thanks for all the replies. Pulled motor, took it back apart, found the problem. Crank and rods at the machine shop now. I'll assume the blame and pay for repairs, just double checking what critical areas I should look at. I think I'll be fine, parts will be done in 2 weeks.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/27/14 07:20 PM
Quote:
Thanks for all the replies. Pulled motor, took it back apart, found the problem. Crank and rods at the machine shop now. I'll assume the blame and pay for repairs, just double checking what critical areas I should look at. I think I'll be fine, parts will be done in 2 weeks.
We are all curious? What was the problem? Did I miss it in one of your previous posts?
Posted By: mopar_man
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/28/14 12:32 AM
Quote:
Thanks for all the replies. Pulled motor, took it back apart, found the problem. Crank and rods at the machine shop now. I'll assume the blame and pay for repairs, just double checking what critical areas I should look at. I think I'll be fine, parts will be done in 2 weeks.
The mains and rod bearings gone was not the problem, that's the result of the problem . Did you find a problem ? if you didn't, you still have a problem . Don't mind asking questions , there's more talent and experience here then at Chrysler Engineering Facility .
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/28/14 01:21 AM
Quote:I thought that was it
I found a piece of rtv lodged in the pick-up tube.
Posted By: mopar_man
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/28/14 01:52 AM
Quote:Quote:I thought that was it
I found a piece of rtv lodged in the pick-up tube.
He must have found a full tube of RTV in the pick up tube. Unless it was a giant gob of RTV that closed off the p/u tube , it should have disintegrated when it hit the pump. And how did a giant piece of RTV get past the screen on the sump. And where did 60 PSI come from with the P/U tube closed off ?
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/28/14 02:00 AM
Quote:Yes we need clarification
He must have found a full tube of RTV in the pick up tube. Unless it was a giant gob of RTV that closed off the p/u tube , it should have disintegrated when it hit the pump. And how did a giant piece of RTV get past the screen on the sump. And where did 60 PSI come from with the P/U tube closed off ?
Posted By: dan9
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/29/14 01:03 AM
I appreciate all the suggestions and you guys are right. There was more to the problem than a piece of rtv. I will try to post the pic of the pick-up screen. If it doesn't post suffice it to say the screen was not checked or cleaned before assembly. It will be now.
Posted By: Diplomat360
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 12/31/14 07:51 PM
Wow!!! yikes...has "oil starvation" written all over it...damn...that's a tough lesson...
Posted By: GO_Fish
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 01/12/15 06:17 AM
yeah, we all learn these tough lessons as part of learning. I had the big center bolt loosen on my 90* adapter on my 340 once. Lost a bunch of oil running down the road, and had forgotten to plug the idiot light onto the oil sending unit. Didn't know I was loosing oil until the lifters started talking, & then I saw the smoke screen in the rear view mirror. I got off lucky just toasting all the bearings in the fresh engine. Had to pull & clean and inspect every thing. Got the big center bolt tight the 2nd time!
Posted By: scratchnfotraction
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 01/12/15 03:31 PM
Quote:
Wow!!! yikes...has "oil starvation" written all over it...damn...that's a tough lesson...
I got a van 318 that looks like that pick up screen. the screen was close to a match also.
this engine would pump oil up top then starve for oil at the pump due to not returning the oil to the pan fast enough.
shut it down and wait 10 mins, it would drain back to the pan. fire it up it would have oil psi then fall off to 0 again.
same thing, bearings were toast and pump chewed up from carbon chunks.
good luck with the new bearings
Posted By: dan9
Re: 90 degree oil filter adaptor question - 01/12/15 05:37 PM
Thanks, new bearings should be here today. Crank and rods are ready.